DefTech Super Cube 8000 Tested By Sound&Vision Magazine - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 54 Old 08-10-2012, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Apparently not up on the S&V website yet. A very favorable review. With an MSRP of $1,500, with the available 25%-30% discount available, this sub looks pretty appealing. CEA 2010, ultra low bass 106.4db, and low bass 117.6db. I also like the remote control having enjoyed the remote control on the surpisingly good performing and inexpensive ($378) Cerwin-Vega HT-12PWR which when tested by Tom Nousaine came in second only to the $850 HSU HRSW 12V.

I would say highly recommended for the performance, 1,500 watt (rated) amplifier and convenience features.

I am sure that someone else can suggest other subs that perform comparably.
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post #2 of 54 Old 08-10-2012, 12:40 PM
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Be sure to scale the CEA to 2m if needed to compare to the way most data is published on the net.(ala Ricci). I haven't seen the review but IIRC soundvision publishes 1m numbers?

Tom V.
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post #3 of 54 Old 08-10-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Be sure to scale the CEA to 2m if needed to compare to the way most data is published on the net.(ala Ricci). I haven't seen the review but IIRC soundvision publishes 1m numbers?
Tom V.

I think I have seen them post both 1m and 2m, but good point. You have to subtract 6db if it is 1m measurements.
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post #4 of 54 Old 08-10-2012, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Be sure to scale the CEA to 2m if needed to compare to the way most data is published on the net.(ala Ricci). I haven't seen the review but IIRC soundvision publishes 1m numbers?
Tom V.

Tom, I just can't understand why people are not on-board with Josh Ricci as he is the standard bearer in sub testing now.
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post #5 of 54 Old 08-10-2012, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I think I have seen them post both 1m and 2m, but good point. You have to subtract 3db if it is 1m measurements.

6dB for 2m to 1m.
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post #6 of 54 Old 08-10-2012, 01:35 PM
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6dB for 2m to 1m.

Thanks, I corrected it.
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post #7 of 54 Old 08-10-2012, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Tom, I just can't understand why people are not on-board with Josh Ricci as he is the standard bearer in sub testing now.


Iirc CEA actually states 1m for published data. But everyone measures at 2m for accuracy....just leaving it at 2m eliminates one compensation that could be forgotten. I think Josh said at one time he left everything at 2m so his data would be more easily compared to Illka's but I could be mistaken.

Another good aspect of the 2m number is it will more accurately compare to what someone can expect at their seating position in a typical room. Now, I'm not saying it will transfer over EXACTLY or anything close to that. But, generally speaking....you'll be MUCH closer using the 2m GP data than the 1M data..smile.gif


Hey, at least there's some protocol now. 10 years ago we had to make TONs of assumptions about room size, measurement methods, ect to try to compare one data set to the next. Now we just have to check to see if its 1m or 2m.

Tom V.
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post #8 of 54 Old 08-10-2012, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Iirc CEA actually states 1m for published data. But everyone measures at 2m for accuracy....just leaving it at 2m eliminates one compensation that could be forgotten. I think Josh said at one time he left everything at 2m so his data would be more easily compared to Illka's but I could be mistaken.
Another good aspect of the 2m number is it will more accurately compare to what someone can expect at their seating position in a typical room. Now, I'm not saying it will transfer over EXACTLY or anything close to that. But, generally speaking....you'll be MUCH closer using the 2m GP data than the 1M data..smile.gif
Hey, at least there's some protocol now. 10 years ago we had to make TONs of assumptions about room size, measurement methods, ect to try to compare one data set to the next. Now we just have to check to see if its 1m or 2m.
Tom V.

Tom agreed, having a set standard makes things a much more level playing field. Josh has mentioned though that calibrating the equipment for CEA is important (and it is not very clear how to properly calibrate), and if not properly done, can account for some pretty significant differences (as much as 3db).
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post #9 of 54 Old 08-10-2012, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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In any case, we have a compact high performance sub from a company that makes very popular speakers and subwoofers. Of course if I had my druthers I would go for the Super Cube Reference or the Trinity. When he fleshed out his answer to some questions Craig Chase had high praise for the Trinity.

At the same time, I am not thrilled by the older Super Cube III, and almost as wary of the SC II.

But the SC 8000 would be a pleasure to own if not exactly back-friendly at 72 pounds ! smile.gif Mastermaybe I'm not smile.gif
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post #10 of 54 Old 08-10-2012, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Apparently not up on the S&V website yet. A very favorable review. With an MSRP of $1,500, with the available 25%-30% discount available, this sub looks pretty appealing. CEA 2010, ultra low bass 106.4db, and low bass 117.6db. I also like the remote control having enjoyed the remote control on the surpisingly good performing and inexpensive ($378) Cerwin-Vega HT-12PWR which when tested by Tom Nousaine came in second only to the $850 HSU HRSW 12V.
I would say highly recommended for the performance, 1,500 watt (rated) amplifier and convenience features.
I am sure that someone else can suggest other subs that perform comparably.

Where can you get a 25-30% discount?
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post #11 of 54 Old 08-10-2012, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Where can you get a 25-30% discount?

You would have to contact member OTK for the answer to that question. He has a great set-up including six (6) 15 inch inch subs along with a lot of other great DefTech products probably including DefTech bipolar speakers!
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post #12 of 54 Old 08-10-2012, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

You would have to contact member OTK for the answer to that question. He has a great set-up including six (6) 15 inch inch subs along with a lot of other great DefTech products probably including DefTech bipolar speakers!

Well I know where to get 25-30% off, but it is refurbished directly from Deftech and there is no warranty outside of 30 days.. Am guessing he has the same source.
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post #13 of 54 Old 08-10-2012, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Well I know where to get 25-30% off, but it is refurbished directly from Deftech and there is no warranty outside of 30 days.. Am guessing he has the same source.

Quite possible. On the other hand, OTK is close to New York City which may make for a highly competitive buyers market smile.gif
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post #14 of 54 Old 08-11-2012, 12:18 AM
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I have two SC1's and be careful of how DT rates those watts. While most subs use a 4ohm driver hooked up to a 300 watt plus amp, DT uses a 32ohm sub driver to get an amp rating of 1500 watts. This was confirmed by Chet at DT when I questioned him about ohm ratings. Also the SC 1 would drop like a rock at 27Hz and below and sound bloated. So I have no choice but to use my two SC's as mid bass subs and bought a SVS to get real sub 20Hz bass.
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post #15 of 54 Old 08-11-2012, 12:26 AM
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In any case, we have a compact high performance sub from a company that makes very popular speakers and subwoofers. )


Agreed, even if the numbers are 1m it is still pretty impressive for a small cube.

Tom V.
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post #16 of 54 Old 08-11-2012, 01:04 AM
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Interesting. I hadn't really considered them but now maybe I'll have to bring them into the mix. Didn't think their low end was that great initially. Not have FR plots really makes it tough to trust their subs.

Anybody have any experience with the Supercube Reference?
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post #17 of 54 Old 08-16-2012, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Sdiver2489 View Post

Interesting. I hadn't really considered them but now maybe I'll have to bring them into the mix. Didn't think their low end was that great initially. Not have FR plots really makes it tough to trust their subs.
Anybody have any experience with the Supercube Reference?

I owned the Trinity which is basically 2 reference subs stacked on each other. Overall it had solid output, but didn't sound all that great with music. I did a writeup on here comparing it to my CHT 18.T setup. Overall I preferred the CHT setup.

Compared to my now 2 JTR Captivators, there really is no comparison. biggrin.gif
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post #18 of 54 Old 08-16-2012, 11:47 AM
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CEA-2010 official documentation suggests 1m peak SPL values ( I believe this is what S&V and Polk uses). However the two largest public independent sources of CEA-2010 type measurements, Illka at HTS and AVTalk both listed data in 2 meter rms format. When measuring at 2 meters versus at 1 meter it allows the radiation from multiple sources on a subwoofer whether drivers, PR's, ports or what have you to integrate more fully by lessening the differences in distance from the various radiation points to the microphone element. Also it can reduce effects from a large enclosure surface area on the measurement. Additionally a half-space ground plane measurement produces 6db greater SPL than if the speaker was allowed to radiate into free space but doubling the distance from 1 to 2 meters conveniently drops the SPL back down by 6dB due to the inverse square law. This results in measurements that should be close to a 1 meter free space (anechoic measurement.). Also as Tom V. mentioned the 2 meter SPL levels recorded seem to line up a little better with what would be seen in most rooms. While there is gain seen by the enclosed boundaries of a room, the listener distance from the subwoofer is usually much greater which will offset the SPL gains somewhat. All of these are the reasons that measuring at 2 meters makes more sense to me. The fact that the 2 largest public repositories of CEA-2010 data prior to starting DB were already in this format is the cherry on top.

CEA-2010 reports the SPL as calculated from the peak of the waveform where as most other measurements of speakers that you will see are reporting it as calculated from the rms value of the waveform. This difference in the way that CEA-2010 reports SPL results in roughly 3dB greater values. So lets say that you record one SPL measurement using ARTA or TEF or another audio program with a subwoofer playing a continuous 50Hz sine wave and get back a result of 100dB. Without turning the 50Hz signal off or touching any of the equipment you switch to the CEA-2010 program and set it for 50Hz meanwhile disconnecting the CEA-2010 output signal from the sub so that it keeps producing only the 50Hz steady sine tone without adding in the actual 50Hz burst from CEA-2010 (which would in fact increase the signal strength and skew the results.) You record the spl result with CEA-2010. It will show a value of 103dB instead of 100dB because it is reporting the peak value. So when you calibrate CEA-2010 you have to remember this or it will skew your results. If you attach a calibrator producing a 94dB tone and calibrate the CEA-2010 program to read 94dB you are now recording the equivalent of the rms not peak value so if you report it as a peak SPL measurement it will actually be 3dB low. The output from the sub and the strength of the signal generating the SPL has not actually changed any it is just being reported in different ways. Lets say that a subwoofer produces 110dB at 50Hz at the limiter with a long sine sweep. Then CEA-2010 testing records 114dB at 50Hz. You would think that this sub is much more dynamic and capable of an extra 4dB with a shorter burst signal but in reality it only produced an extra 1dB increase in output. For this reason and to keep the SPL values more comparable with the rest of the measurements typically seen such as the output compression tests, myself, AVtalk and Illka all opted to subtract the 3dB from the peak number.

In short a 2 meter measurement will result in values 6dB lower than those taken at 1 meter. A peak CEA-2010 measurement results in an SPL 3dB higher than the typical rms calculation. So in order to compare 1m peak CEA-2010 data with that from DB, AVtalk, Illka or my reviews at AH you have to subtract 9dB in total.
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post #19 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 07:37 AM
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I'm seriously considering picking this one up, but there seems to be a major lack of first hand experience/ownership, probably to it being a new product.

Does anyone here own the SuperCube 8000? If yes, what are your thoughts on it?
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post #20 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 08:11 AM
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So if I am reading this correctly and from what I can dig up is the Def 8000 is basically it's a 16” cube with a 11” driver + (PR) that can be bought for around 25% off of list of around $1500. I can’t seem to find a +- anywhere. Might I ask what is the attraction some would have regarding a sub like this at the price it seems to warrant? Is it just the size alone? I’ll be interested to see the numbers.

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post #21 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 08:24 AM
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^ This...it looks to be way over priced for what you get.

1125.00 for 97db ultra low bass and 108db low bass is not what I would call a bargain.
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post #22 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 08:29 AM
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^ This...it looks to be way over priced for what you get.

.

you're never one to beat around the bush bass. Can’t say I disagree though. wink.gif

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post #23 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 09:51 AM
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So if I am reading this correctly and from what I can dig up is the Def 8000 is basically it's a 16” cube with a 11” driver + (PR) that can be bought for around 25% off of list of around $1500. I can’t seem to find a +- anywhere. Might I ask what is the attraction some would have regarding a sub like this at the price it seems to warrant? Is it just the size alone? I’ll be interested to see the numbers.

Who doesn't love the air a 15 & 18" woofer moves? My father is running an 18" Velodyne DD and my Brother's running a 15 velodyne SPL. Those things tear my face off, especially the DD.

While the 12" - 15" & 18" will perform the 10's on a SPL metric, i've always been partial to the sound of 10"...which the larger woofers cannot reproduce, no matter how high end you go.

I'm interested in the DT SC8000 because it's running a front firing 11" - with 2 12" passive radiators...for me, this is a VERY interesting forumla and this configuration has the potential to create a very unique sound...especially being this is DT's #2 sub on their foodchain.

If this sub were an MMA fighter, hypothetically i compare it to a welterweight fighter than can possibly perform like a Light Heavyweight.

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^ This...it looks to be way over priced for what you get.

1125.00 for 97db ultra low bass and 108db low bass is not what I would call a bargain.

These numbers are the main reason i'm looking for some first-hand reviews of this subwoofer.

While numbers may be black and white there is a lot of grey area these measurements do not account for.

I want a sealed enclosure. Sealed enclosured for me produce the best sounding bass. Many woofers using ported enclosures will smoke this sub's SPL numbers, but the numbers don't mean it's a better sounding setup.

Ya feel me?

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post #24 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 09:57 AM
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i've always been partial to the sound of 10"...which the larger woofers cannot reproduce, no matter how high end you go.

Oh I don’t agree with that at all! I have had to many subs to feel different. I’ll respect your opinion though but agree to disagree. It's all good. smile.gif

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post #25 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:04 AM
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Oh I don’t agree with that at all! I have had to many subs to feel different. I’ll respect your opinion though but agree to disagree. It's all good. smile.gif

I respect your opinion too, my friend!

Ultimately it comes down to physics. The sound waves a larger cone produces will be inherintly different than the waves a smaller cone produces.

as per Brent Butterworth from Sound & Vision:
"The SC8000 sounds to me like a nice compromise between a small “punch sub” — i.e., one tuned to deliver maximum impact from 40 to 80 Hz — and a big monster sub that shakes the floors with powerful response down to 20 Hz."

I find this statement very intriguing. But i cannot make any decisions until i demo the sub...and then one step further, i have to get it in my application to make an educated decision.

PEACE to all my fellow A/V lovers smile.gif
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post #26 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:06 AM
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........
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post #27 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:10 AM
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no i dont feel you.... the svs sb13u, psa xs15, xs30 and rythmik f15hp, f25, all will stomp a mud hole in that def techs ass for the same or alot less money depending on what ya go with. Its been said by many folks that have owned def tech subs that thier numbers are inflated and dont dig nearly as low as thier rating. if you want one go for it, just forwarning you can do much better with that 1500.00

on a side note, a quality ported sub will sound great for both music and movies, i have had both and many different subs, so thats a myth. Sealed subs work great for deepe extension if the room is small and sealed, or using multiple sealed units in a fairly large size room.

smile.gif

For starters a PSA XS15 for 749.00 shipped has average of 113db ultra low bass and 125db low bass using 1m peak measurements that S&V uses. Not to mention better warranty and outstanding customer service. All the other subs I mentioned will have even more output.
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post #28 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:10 AM
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@ Eddie... FYI a Sub using Passive Radiators is a Bass Reflex Design, a Sub using Ports is a Bass Reflex design. Ported and Passive Radiated subs are very similar, both will have higher output around their tuning frequency, but normally the output will have a very steep drop off below the tuning frequency. Yes a passive radiator is tuned to a certain frequency just like a port tube is tuned.

If you want and prefer a Sealed sub that is fine but then you need to get a sealed sub (Acoustic Suspension) not a sub using passive radiators (Bass Reflex). Sealed subs usually consist of a single driver, or a dual driver setup. The most prefered dual driver sealed sub setup is dual opposed (1 front and 1 rear firing or 1left side and 1 right side firing). You may want to check out PSA (Power Sound Audio) the XS-15 is a 15" down firing sealed design and the XS-30 is a dual opposed 15" sealed design. BTW Tom Vodhanel who posted in this thread is 1 of the 2 co-founders of PSA.

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post #29 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
"The SC8000 sounds to me like a nice compromise between a small “punch sub” — i.e., one tuned to deliver maximum impact from 40 to 80 Hz — and a big monster sub that shakes the floors with powerful response down to 20 Hz."


I see what you’re saying but I can build the same sub you’re alluding to with a quality 15..18” driver. Are you sure you’re talking size of the driver or just the way it’s aligned. Oh and I still find a lower tuned sealed just as good for music imo. cool.gif

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post #30 of 54 Old 06-26-2013, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Arkadian View Post

I want a sealed enclosure. Sealed enclosured for me produce the best sounding bass. Many woofers using ported enclosures will smoke this sub's SPL numbers, but the numbers don't mean it's a better sounding setup.

The deftech isn't really a sealed design, it uses passive radiators. Passive radiators typically exhibit even worse group delay than ported subs, so it might sound better to you, but from a technical standpoint, it may be flabbier than an otherwise equal ported design.
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