I need help choosing a subwoofer around 3,200 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 08-11-2012, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I am thinking about jl fathom 112 or the svs pb13. I love to watch football games and movies. I need some thing that will sound amazing please help me chose.
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post #2 of 39 Old 08-11-2012, 05:48 PM
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With that much of a budget I'd look at a Seaton Submersive HP. Dual Empires (I've got one) would be pretty awesome and come in for even less than a Submersive. Multiple subs can help increase the smile factor, I recently added some to mine (but different brand, but two of them for a total of three).

Oh,, and welcome to the forums. How did you think we looked in the game last night?

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post #3 of 39 Old 08-11-2012, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I am happy with the offense it will be a good year harbaugh is amazing. We have better receivers and running backs look good defense will be top 5. I have never Sean a seaton submersive hp.
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post #4 of 39 Old 08-11-2012, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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When I whatch a football game I want to feel when a hit is made.
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post #5 of 39 Old 08-11-2012, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sfniner View Post

When I whatch a football game I want to feel when a hit is made.

That will depend on the rest of your setup more than the sub (don't get me wrong, sub is part for sure). Where are you in the bay area?

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post #6 of 39 Old 08-11-2012, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sfniner View Post

I am happy with the offense it will be a good year harbaugh is amazing. We have better receivers and running backs look good defense will be top 5. I have never Sean a seaton submersive hp.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1354149/the-ill-demo-my-subwoofer-for-other-enthusiasts-thread

I think we're underrepresented here in the bay area in this list, am sure there's a few around who just haven't volunteered.

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post #7 of 39 Old 08-11-2012, 06:29 PM
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No matter how good a sub is it won't help a lot with TV. Even when it is broadcast is 5.1 there is usually a lot compression taking place. I don't know if it originates from the networks themselves or the cable and satellite companies are to blame. I think they do it so it will sound better with the terrible built in TV speakers most people still use. I've heard that satellite is better than cable, but I've never seen measurements to back it up. Anyway, just wanted to warn you to not expect too much from TV watching. Of course Blu Ray is another story. I agree the consensus seems to be the Seaton HP is the best sub in the $2000 - $3000 price range. Just do a quick search on this forum and you'll find a lot of info about them.
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post #8 of 39 Old 08-11-2012, 06:43 PM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1387178/archaeas-kansas-city-blind-subwoofer-shootout-2012/0_20

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #9 of 39 Old 08-11-2012, 06:59 PM
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I would recommend dual SVS PC13 Ultras

Moving Heaven and Earth one Sub at a Time.
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post #10 of 39 Old 08-11-2012, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I am leaning toward fathom f112 or svs PB 13 ultra. I remember the jl sounding great in cars. I havent heard eather one but svs PB 13 is cheaper I was quoted a jl fathom f112 2,387.
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post #11 of 39 Old 08-11-2012, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I have seen svs PB 13 on YouTube move air do jl move air? I live in San Bruno California
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post #12 of 39 Old 08-11-2012, 08:35 PM
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The SVS PB13 Ultra and the JL Fathom F113 are in a similar class.

The Seaton Submersive HP or JTR Speaker products are in the next class above.

I owned a pair of SVS PB13 Ultras, and I prefered a single JTR Captivator over my dual PB13 Ultras by a significant margin. I now own dual JTR Captivators. To put something like dual JTR Caps together you are looking at about $3600.

$1500 x 2 for passive caps (+ shipping)
http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/
$100 for Behringer Mic 2200 for HPF and 2 band PEQ
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-ultragain-pro-mic2200
$325 for Behringer EP4000
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-ep4000-europower-power-amp

I don't want to step on SVS owner's toes, because the SVS is a fine sub, but a 13" high excursion driver can't keep up with a 18" high excursion, high efficiency driver. The difference between the two is not minor.

Here's a video I made to show how much air displacement these JTR Caps really manage. I'll link this since you mentioned the PB13 Ultra's move air...cool.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlpqBoQ1hoQ




Here's another link of it blowing a ball cap around. At one point during our demo session I didn't catch on camera - the hat blew back about 8 foot to the recliners in my room (that was the reason I decided to get the camera out --- we should have rewound the clip to catch that big blast again). This video was filmed in the 2011 subwoofer meet. You can see the dust blowing around the room. The caps are ferocious!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCR9iCsVWCM


"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #13 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't want a 18 inch sub to big but you are right that sub moves a lot of air thanks. I prefer a 12 inch sub or 13 inch I whant some really tight clean bass. I went to magnolia yesterday and they had an open box rel r528 for 1500 but I think a jl fathom f112 will be better or svs pb13?
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post #14 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sfniner View Post

I don't want a 18 inch sub to big but you are right that sub moves a lot of air thanks. I prefer a 12 inch sub or 13 inch I whant some really tight clean bass. I went to magnolia yesterday and they had an open box rel r528 for 1500 but I think a jl fathom f112 will be better or svs pb13?

In most measurable characteristics, the REL R528 subwoofer won't approach the performance of either the JL Fathom F112 or the SVS PB13-Ultra. The measurements above were not all taken by the same individual and the subs may not have been tested using the same standards; but the differences are large enough to make the rankings clear, as far as output and extension. Whether you'd prefer the sound of the REL is something that's hard for other people to answer meaningfully.

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #15 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sfniner View Post

I don't want a 18 inch sub to big but you are right that sub moves a lot of air thanks. I prefer a 12 inch sub or 13 inch I whant some really tight clean bass. I went to magnolia yesterday and they had an open box rel r528 for 1500 but I think a jl fathom f112 will be better or svs pb13?

The size difference between a PB13 and Captivator is minimal- the SVS is deeper but the Cap is taller. Weight is comparable also. I wouldn't think size is a differentiator.
The idea that a 12 or 13 inch woofer is "cleaner" than an 18 is false. There have been multiple accounts of people on this forum who have heard the SVS, Cap and/or Submersive and preferred one of the latter two. Your choice though.
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post #16 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I am more confused now I was leaning toward fathom f112 but now not sure anymore. Some say hsu Vtf -15 or captivator . I thought that fathom would be tighter cleaner bass.
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post #17 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 07:43 AM
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PB13 Ultra - 22" H x 20.5" W x 27" D
Captivator - 30″ H x 20″ W x 22.5″ D
JL Fathom F113 - 19.625" H. x 16.50" W x 19.25" D
JL Fathom F112 - 18" H x15" W x 18.63" D


Fathoms are smaller, but they won't produce much "air movement" because they are sealed subs. Some people like air movement, (I do) some people think it's distracting and would rather have none. JL also makes a good sub, and their cabinets are about as attractive as any in the business. Good luck in your choice.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #18 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sfniner View Post

I am more confused now I was leaning toward fathom f112 but now not sure anymore. Some say hsu Vtf -15 or captivator . I thought that fathom would be tighter cleaner bass.

The HSU VTF-15H is not in the same class as the SVS PB13 Ultra nor JL Fathom. It is generally considered a class down. It is a nice sub to be sure but won't compete with the SVS or JL directly. With two HSU's against one SVS or JL Fathom f113 you'd have more of a contest.

The Seaton Submersive or Captivator are a step above the SVS PB13 Ultra or JL Fathoms. Likewise with two of the JL or SVS against one Submersive or Captivator you'd have more of a contest.

When you get to these higher priced/classed subwoofers there's not so clear a distinction between sealed, ported, and horn. That's one take away from our blind meet in 2012 linked in my sig. The top four subs all scored within a few percentage points of each other with nine blind voters, and people couldn't tell if they were listening to a sealed, ported, or horn sub when they were blinded.

When you are talking budget subs there is more of a clear difference between the different type of alignments - ported vs. sealed etc.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #19 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Does air movement help?
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post #20 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Archaea which one would you chose more ht and tv than music.
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post #21 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 08:09 AM
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dual caps for the $3600 range. they'll likely be the most powerful capable subs you've ever heard anywhere...

duals of any of the other JTR or Seaton options will cost you quite a bit more than your stated budget. I prefer duals. It isn't necessary, but it is preferable depending on your room. I have a 3500 cubic foot room and I've played with Luke's VTF-15H pair in my room. I'm a bass hound, so take that into context, but I didn't feel the HSU subs were sufficient for my likes in my room. By contrast I LOVE the dual HSU subs in Luke's 1500 cubic foot room. It depends on what you like. If you owned a car audio system growing up (or still do wink.gif ) and you want to obtain a taste of that kind of bass pressurization in your room you're going to need a lot of sub to do it. How much sub you need depends on your room size. If you don't care about that - then you don't need this much sub. Consider that the likes of these top subs are better quality subs than what is typically used in mega churches, auditoriums, dance clubs, etc. These things are serious business.

What is your room size?

Also keep in mind that like Audiophile2k says - TV broadcasting isn't going to showcase the lows as well as bluray or DVD. In reality as setup like the caps are vast overkill for 99% of the population out there. My advice in purchasing them is somewhat ridiculous and glorious overkill. smile.gif That said I love my pair and I believe they are my favorite single purchase I've ever made through my whole life --- even 1 year after my purchase timeframe. You may find you'd be perfectly happy with incredibly less sub. I personally wanted to somewhate imitate the tactile feelings of car audio in my theater room - that isn't for everyone. If you just want to hear the bass primarily for TV - then you could probably buy a set of something like the Klipsch RW-12Ds that are currently on sale for $300 a pop and be perfectly satisified. Lots of people are. That wasn't your budget, so we didn't start there, but you need to help us determine what your expectations are --- along with your room dimmensions.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #22 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 08:14 AM
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Little bit more than 3K to spend on a sub? Get an Orbit Shifter. You'll never want another sub again. Except maybe another Orbit Shifter.

If one is going to make a simplistic assessment of the value of different alignments, it would be that sealed/IB goes the lowest, at the highest cost per dB; horns have the lowest cost per dB at the expense of size, and vented box characteristics lie in between the other two. None is inherently superior across the board, neither is any inherently inferior across the board. The one to use is the one that fits your response and output needs, available space and bank account. -BFM
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post #23 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't whant to reproduce a car sound system I whant it to sound like IMAX theater room is 17 \16/ 8 with an opening to kitchen. I want to start with one sub for now.
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post #24 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Is a speaker better if it is thx2 certified?
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post #25 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

dual caps for the $3600 range. they'll likely be the most powerful capable subs you've ever heard anywhere...

duals of any of the other JTR or Seaton options will cost you quite a bit more than your stated budget. I prefer duals. It isn't necessary, but it is preferable depending on your room. I have a 3500 cubic foot room and I've played with Luke's VTF-15H pair in my room. I'm a bass hound, so take that into context, but I didn't feel the HSU subs were sufficient for my likes in my room. By contrast I LOVE the dual HSU subs in Luke's 1500 cubic foot room. It depends on what you like. If you owned a car audio system growing up (or still do wink.gif ) and you want to obtain a taste of that kind of bass pressurization in your room you're going to need a lot of sub to do it. How much sub you need depends on your room size. If you don't care about that - then you don't need this much sub. Consider that the likes of these top subs are better quality subs than what is typically used in mega churches, auditoriums, dance clubs, etc. These things are serious business.

What is your room size?

Also keep in mind that like Audiophile2k says - TV broadcasting isn't going to showcase the lows as well as bluray or DVD. In reality as setup like the caps are vast overkill for 99% of the population out there. My advice in purchasing them is somewhat ridiculous and glorious overkill. smile.gif That said I love my pair and I believe they are my favorite single purchase I've ever made through my whole life --- even 1 year after my purchase timeframe. You may find you'd be perfectly happy with incredibly less sub. I personally wanted to somewhate imitate the tactile feelings of car audio in my theater room - that isn't for everyone. If you just want to hear the bass primarily for TV - then you could probably buy a set of something like the Klipsch RW-12Ds that are currently on sale for $300 a pop and be perfectly satisified. Lots of people are. That wasn't your budget, so we didn't start there, but you need to help us determine what your expectations are --- along with your room dimmensions.

Lol. I bet a lot of people are rolling their eyes after you brought up car audio. Much much smaller space to fill and many of those "systems" sound like doo doo because they don't take the time and money to dampen the vehicle.

butter and jelly please.
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post #26 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 09:24 AM
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My goal in the car audio analogy was to relate that to the tactile feel and pressurization, not cruddy boomy bass. As you can tell by the avatar pic my frequency response with the captivators in my room looks absolutely nothing like car audio frequency response. The caps are certaintly not a "one note boomy wonder". I'm just trying to be a bit realistic on the recommendations true capability. Do most people want or need their clothes to shake in a moderate sized theater room when they watch a movie? Perhaps not. If they don't - they don't have to spend as much money as OP is looking to spend.

As to sounding like IMAX. My theater room sounds quite a bit better than any IMAX I've been in. The bass at an IMAX pales in comparison. If you pass through KC you should feel free to schedule a demo with me.

Alternately - see what's avail in your area

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1354149/the-ill-demo-my-subwoofer-for-other-enthusiasts-thread/0_20

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #27 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Are the captivator sub good quality?
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post #28 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 10:37 AM
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Sfniner,

I feel a disconnect here:

The caps placed within a few percentage places of the best or at the best in every subwoofer meet they've been in that I'm aware of.

2011 Meet 1 -
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1387178/archaeas-kansas-city-blind-subwoofer-shootout-2012/0_20

2011 Meet 2 -
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1368326/subfest-2011-huskeromaha-and-desertdomes-subwoofer-showdown/0_20

2012 Meet 1 -
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1387178/archaeas-kansas-city-blind-subwoofer-shootout-2012/0_20

2012 G2G -
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1397851/captivators-and-submersive-comparison-in-my-room/0_20

2012 Meet 2 (On october 20 - if you can fly out - I encourage it -- you'll be able to hear some of these subs discussed including HSU, Rythmik, JTR, and Seaton) -
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1420544/ne-pa-ny-nj-de-md-va-gtg-take-two/0_20

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #29 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all your help I am going to buy svs pb13 to start and get one more later. I don't like tha jtr captivator web site and nobody answer the phone other wise I buy it.
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post #30 of 39 Old 08-12-2012, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Were to get he best price on svs PB 13 ?
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