Smaller and/or subs that pass the WAF test? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 08-12-2012, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking at a new two channel setup for our new house. We'll probably move sometime in December or January. At this point I'm planning to have NO sub on that 2 channel setup downstairs. Wife doesn't really want a giant box like my SVSound NSD sitting in our living room, especially since I'll have a media room.

Any thoughts or suggestions on a small, easy to place sub, something that will pass the WAF test?
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post #2 of 24 Old 08-12-2012, 12:06 PM
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What's your budget? If it's not too tight, I would contact Nathan Funk to let him know your size and price constraints and see what he can do for you. He can finish your sub in whatever veneer most appeals to your wife. Perhaps she won't mind having a larger sub if she thinks it's attractive.

http://www.funkaudio.ca/Custom_Gallery.html
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post #3 of 24 Old 08-12-2012, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post

What's your budget? If it's not too tight, I would contact Nathan Funk to let him know your size and price constraints and see what he can do for you. He can finish your sub in whatever veneer most appeals to your wife. Perhaps she won't mind having a larger sub if she thinks it's attractive.
http://www.funkaudio.ca/Custom_Gallery.html
Don't really know to be honest. I'd like to keep it around 2k for speakers, maybe a little more, obviously less is good. I was looking at the KEF Q900's since I didn't plan to run a sub but I've heard so much better stuff about the R series that I'm really wanting the R700s now. And if I could run a sub with wife approval I could go with the 500's instead of the 700's.

It's hard for me to get excited about spending a lot of money on a sub that's for 2 channel music because I don't need the walls to rattle down around me. I'm pretty happy with my NSD12 for my home theater setup, may add a second at some point...

So for music I just want to see what if any options I have and if it's going to help the setup significantly.

I'm considering a pair of Def Tech speakers with the subs built in. Might be just what the doctor ordered...
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post #4 of 24 Old 08-12-2012, 01:14 PM
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HAve you looked into the SVS SB12-NSD?? ITs smaller that your ported sub, its sealed so it should be better for music, its only $650 and comes in a piano black gloss.
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post #5 of 24 Old 08-12-2012, 08:25 PM
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What size is your room?

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post #6 of 24 Old 08-12-2012, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skally View Post

HAve you looked into the SVS SB12-NSD?? ITs smaller that your ported sub, its sealed so it should be better for music, its only $650 and comes in a piano black gloss.

Agreed on the SB12. If you ned something smaller around $500-600 you are probably looking at a Deftech Supecube.

Or maybe this:
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/speakers/products/xref10
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post #7 of 24 Old 08-13-2012, 04:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

What size is your room?

It's a large area. Can't remember the dimensions off the top of my head but 19x21 and then the kitchen/breakfast nook is probably 12x25 or 12x30 and they're all open to eachother. Ceiling height ranges from 10 to 15 feet (vaulted in part of it)
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post #8 of 24 Old 08-13-2012, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

It's a large area. Can't remember the dimensions off the top of my head but 19x21 and then the kitchen/breakfast nook is probably 12x25 or 12x30 and they're all open to eachother. Ceiling height ranges from 10 to 15 feet (vaulted in part of it)

Assuming 19x21 with only a 10 foot ceiling means your HT area is almost 4000 cubic feet. If the kitchen is open to the HT then add another 3000 cubic feet, at the very least. That's a huge amount of space to fill. The SB12 is a very nice sub, but it's simply not going to handle that. If your size limitation restricts you to something that size I'm afraid you're in for quite a struggle.

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post #9 of 24 Old 08-13-2012, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Assuming 19x21 with only a 10 foot ceiling means your HT area is almost 4000 cubic feet. If the kitchen is open to the HT then add another 3000 cubic feet, at the very least. That's a huge amount of space to fill. The SB12 is a very nice sub, but it's simply not going to handle that. If your size limitation restricts you to something that size I'm afraid you're in for quite a struggle.
That sir is the point of this thread. My wife doesn't want huge speakers and a sub in the living room since I will have a media room. So I am trying to figure out what my options are. That is a big reason the def techs are looking like a good option.
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post #10 of 24 Old 08-13-2012, 06:26 AM
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You mentioned you will be moving into your home in DEC/Jan.... is this a finished house or is it being built at this time?? The reason I ask is because if its being built you could looking into "in-wall subs" such as www.speakercraft.com/products/subwoofers/cinema-sub?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_sc.tpl&product_id=8&category_id=4. Just thinking anyhow wink.gif.

The Def. Tech may be your only option as to be WAF. smile.gif
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post #11 of 24 Old 08-13-2012, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

That sir is the point of this thread. My wife doesn't want huge speakers and a sub in the living room since I will have a media room. So I am trying to figure out what my options are. That is a big reason the def techs are looking like a good option.

I second the sb12. I just received mine, room of about 6000 cu ft, and I have been pleasantly surprised with how much bass it puts out. The bass drop in this James Blake record could be felt in the refrigerator across the large open area.
http://www.karmadrums.com/a-bass-drop-for-president-james-blake-limit-to-your-love/

I dont claim to have made any comparisons to other subs, just that I am extremely happy with this one. 14in cube is relatively easy on the setup.
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post #12 of 24 Old 08-13-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

That sir is the point of this thread. My wife doesn't want huge speakers and a sub in the living room since I will have a media room. So I am trying to figure out what my options are. That is a big reason the def techs are looking like a good option.

Regardless of which option you're looking at -- Supercubes, SB12, whatever -- the point I was trying to make is still the same; it's simply not going to work. That's just too much space. You might be able to get away with duals, but a single of anything that small is insufficient. The space will render it mute.

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post #13 of 24 Old 08-13-2012, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Regardless of which option you're looking at -- Supercubes, SB12, whatever -- the point I was trying to make is still the same; it's simply not going to work. That's just too much space. You might be able to get away with duals, but a single of anything that small is insufficient. The space will render it mute.
so maybe i just forget the sub all together
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post #14 of 24 Old 08-13-2012, 09:56 AM
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Obviously your decision, but here is my space. SB12 sits in the corner to the right of the TV and is mated with Studio 60s v5.
livingroom.JPG 1469k .JPG file

If I played a track once with the sub, and once without, one would be hard pressed to assert that there was no difference in sound. Much fuller, with better low end throughout the space.

You know what you need and what you are looking for. I can tell you though that I am very happy with the choice. biggrin.gif
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post #15 of 24 Old 08-13-2012, 10:50 AM
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Someone once suggested a HSU ULS-15 to me for WAF. I agree its very nice looking...its not quite as small as a SB12 but its got class.
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post #16 of 24 Old 08-14-2012, 04:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sdiver2489 View Post

Someone once suggested a HSU ULS-15 to me for WAF. I agree its very nice looking...its not quite as small as a SB12 but its got class.
It's also wireless which adds to its flexibility. And being a 15 it may do ok in my space...
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post #17 of 24 Old 08-14-2012, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

so maybe i just forget the sub all together

That would be my suggestion as to wait until you get the speakers and then you can determine if a sub is needed. If it were my area I would want a sub as it adds more life to the music without a doubt, but then again thats me.

ABout the KEFs you are looking at: you posted "That sir is the point of this thread. My wife doesn't want huge speakers and a sub in the living room since I will have a media room. So I am trying to figure out what my options are. That is a big reason the def techs are looking like a good option". Looking at the specs of the KEF's they are HxWxD 42 x 11.8 x 12.9 in., thats quite a large set up??

Heres some info on the KEF R series I found on the UK post:

RE: Kef R500 vs R700.....


So I've had the R300's, R500's and R700's all on extended home auditions and this is what I have found so far:

R300's - £1000 - Amazing soundstage. Great bass but some fiddling with rear port bungs and positioning in relation to the rear wall was required to focus it. Great with vocal music but pretty dam good with anything you throw at them really. They do however get a bit confused with complex pieces of music.

R500's - £1500 - As above but with more oomph. Bass is deep and controlled. Also there is better separation within the soundstage and less tenancy for the presentation to be cloudy when the complexity increases. Female vocals are amazing but the metal drive units are exposed by some male vocal recordings which can lead to a slightly "metallic" and unnatural sound. This is a very small issue but it has been grating during prolonged listening periods. Not fussy about positioning.

R700's - £2000 - Hmmmmm. I only got these because I was so impressed by the R500,s and wanted to know what an extra £500 would get me. The bass is big. Really big. Could be weaponised with a few tweaks. Mind you it should be good coming from floorstanders weighing 27kg each. However after 30 hours of running in day and night I am feeling quite cold about these boxes. The incredible soundstage created by the much less expensive 300'sand 500's seems to have been lost in translation to the bigger cabinets, or maybe visa versa? Also the metallic male vocal issue is much more prevalent here.

All of the above leaves me more confused than when I started the auditioning. I am tempted to revert to the 500's but am also wondering about the 900's. Will going to the top of the range just give me more of the R700's traits or are the 900's in a different league?


Anyhow, have fun and good luck in your adventure smile.gif
Jeff
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post #18 of 24 Old 08-14-2012, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Skally thank you for the post. I could get away with two larger speakers. The sub is a huge question mark at this point though.
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post #19 of 24 Old 08-14-2012, 05:29 AM
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No problem smile.gif As I had mentioned thou, it may be best to just wait until you pick out a set then determine if you want/need a sub then. The Def Tech's you are talking about may be a great compermise as well. I have never herd them in action but awhile back I was able to hear a set of older Acoustic Research towers that had built in subs as they wernt to bad at all, it wasnt like having a true subwoofer but never the less they def. had good bass.
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post #20 of 24 Old 08-14-2012, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by skally View Post

No problem smile.gif As I had mentioned thou, it may be best to just wait until you pick out a set then determine if you want/need a sub then. The Def Tech's you are talking about may be a great compermise as well. I have never herd them in action but awhile back I was able to hear a set of older Acoustic Research towers that had built in subs as they wernt to bad at all, it wasnt like having a true subwoofer but never the less they def. had good bass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver2489 View Post

Someone once suggested a HSU ULS-15 to me for WAF. I agree its very nice looking...its not quite as small as a SB12 but its got class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skally View Post

No problem smile.gif As I had mentioned thou, it may be best to just wait until you pick out a set then determine if you want/need a sub then. The Def Tech's you are talking about may be a great compermise as well. I have never herd them in action but awhile back I was able to hear a set of older Acoustic Research towers that had built in subs as they wernt to bad at all, it wasnt like having a true subwoofer but never the less they def. had good bass.
That just may work, and being a 15 it may give me the oomph I need. I pulled my floor plan back out this morning. I've got ONE corner that can't and won't have anything around it simply because of the room layout. This corner has about 30 inches where I could place a sub. Wireless is a big selling point for my wife because she HATES wires/cables.

The R500s and the ULS15 could fit the bill smile.gif
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post #21 of 24 Old 08-14-2012, 08:46 PM
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Depending on your room layout, you might be able to hide one or two of the SVS cylinder subs behind something since they have a smaller footprint than the box designs, and also have the option of horizontal placement.. Sunfire true subs are tiny 12 inch cubes, (can easily be hidden away in corners behind furniture and decorations) and while they won't go real low, they can give a lot of output in the range you'll need for music.
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post #22 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver2489 View Post

Someone once suggested a HSU ULS-15 to me for WAF. I agree its very nice looking...its not quite as small as a SB12 but its got class.

You know... after looking into the specs, size, finish & wireless feature I beleive that would be an excellent choice for the OP!!

I dig the fact it even states on the top "The ULS is our lowest distortion, most musical and spouse friendly subwoofer." wink.gif That pretty much sums up the OP's wants and needs. ITs small enough to hide in a corner, sealed as its an easier placment ( such as a corner ) & wireless.
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post #23 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 08:11 AM
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You might want to look into the Epik Legend. Nice looking sub and it sounds incredible. Not that big and it has dual 12"s opposing each other. Also its only $499. Its a sealed sub so you might like it better for music. The SB12 is really nice looking too,but its $100 more. I think the legend will have more output. Also,I own the legend,its a great sub. But ,honestly,your going to need a sub,things just won't sound nearly as good IMO..
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post #24 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 04:57 PM
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I would actually skip the sub altogether until you get the speakers into your room and figure out what you need. If you are considering Q900s, they are big enough speakers with lots of headroom and simply adding a small SB12 may not do it justice.

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