The Subwoofer Recommendation by Pricepoint Thread. - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 353 Old 08-31-2015, 09:58 AM
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[QUOTE=chucky7;36913058]Well, it's MY list... LOL

I like your list. I would have put the same list except the last one. Perhaps one may want to use orbit shifter in a dedicated room and use funk audio 18.2 in a media/living room. Now, that would be my dream system.
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post #332 of 353 Old 08-31-2015, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
Curious, what makes you say this? Are you just talking size?
Archaea pretty much universally recommend a ported to 20hz cabinet over a sealed setup for a single or dual 18" build. He has this to say about sealed vs. ported. From direct, and detailed experiences with both.

Bought four sealed 18" cabinets on a wild hare - Direct me to a driver setup at least competitive or superior to JTR Captivators...

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post #333 of 353 Old 08-31-2015, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Archaea pretty much universally recommend a ported to 20hz cabinet over a sealed setup for a single or dual 18" build. He has this to say about sealed vs. ported. From direct, and detailed experiences with both.

Bought four sealed 18" cabinets on a wild hare - Direct me to a driver setup at least competitive or superior to JTR Captivators...

Ok. Your claim was, "sealed subs would only work in few rooms," and that link doesn't remotely support that claim. If you can find even one Submersive owner who thinks his sub "doesn't work" in many rooms I would be absolutely shocked. Everyone is entitled to their "sealed versus ported" preference, but claiming sealed subs just "don't work" in many rooms is a real stretch.
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post #334 of 353 Old 08-31-2015, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
Archaea pretty much universally recommend a ported to 20hz cabinet over a sealed setup for a single or dual 18" build. He has this to say about sealed vs. ported. From direct, and detailed experiences with both.

Bought four sealed 18" cabinets on a wild hare - Direct me to a driver setup at least competitive or superior to JTR Captivators...
Some would argue many wouldn't be able to tell a difference between sealed and ported in a blind a/b/x test. Just a thought to consider.

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post #335 of 353 Old 08-31-2015, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
Some would argue many wouldn't be able to tell a difference between sealed and ported in a blind a/b/x test. Just a thought to consider.
This coming from a man with 2 each OS and Mariana 24. In your case, I'll bet we could ask your neighbors which they prefer...

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post #336 of 353 Old 08-31-2015, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
Some would argue many wouldn't be able to tell a difference between sealed and ported in a blind a/b/x test. Just a thought to consider.
That is in reference to sound quality ( being musical, muddiness, tightness) not to output.

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post #337 of 353 Old 08-31-2015, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
Ok. Your claim was, "sealed subs would only work in few rooms," and that link doesn't remotely support that claim. If you can find even one Submersive owner who thinks his sub "doesn't work" in many rooms I would be absolutely shocked. Everyone is entitled to their "sealed versus ported" preference, but claiming sealed subs just "don't work" in many rooms is a real stretch.
People who have a Submersive probably have it in their dedicated and sealed HT where they get to benefit from cabin gain. Besides, if I owned a Submersive, whether or not it would work in other people's rooms is the last thing I want to worry about.

AFAIK, Submersives are all sealed so I guess we will never know if the owners would still prefer them over a ported Submersive with the same driver, amp and workmanship.

I don't think I am alone in thinking ported subs work in every room but sealed subs would work best in few rooms. Several ID sub company owners would recommend ported subs in spaces larger than 3000 cu ft.

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Last edited by chucky7; 08-31-2015 at 02:11 PM.
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post #338 of 353 Old 08-31-2015, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
People who have a Submersive probably have it in their dedicated and sealed HT where they get to benefit from cabin gain. Besides, if I owned a Submersive, whether or not it would work in other people's rooms is the last thing I want to worry about.
I have mine in a basement that is the size and shape of a bowling-alley lane. The room is not sealed but its got fairly good acoustics for the size and shape of the room. The thing I like most about the sub is the smooth way it integrates into my system and I can run the cross-overs over 100 hz of I want to. That said, you can also literally balance a coin on its edge on top of the sub while its shaking the rest of the house apart with seemingly limitless output. If Mark made a ported Submersive I'm sure it would be awesome as well, but man-o-man do I like my sealed one.

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post #339 of 353 Old 08-31-2015, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
This coming from a man with 2 each OS and Mariana 24. In your case, I'll bet we could ask your neighbors which they prefer...
Touche...I've yet to run all 4 at the same time...so TBD

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post #340 of 353 Old Yesterday, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky7 View Post
People who have a Submersive probably have it in their dedicated and sealed HT where they get to benefit from cabin gain. Besides, if I owned a Submersive, whether or not it would work in other people's rooms is the last thing I want to worry about.

AFAIK, Submersives are all sealed so I guess we will never know if the owners would still prefer them over a ported Submersive with the same driver, amp and workmanship.

I don't think I am alone in thinking ported subs work in every room but sealed subs would work best in few rooms. Several ID sub company owners would recommend ported subs in spaces larger than 3000 cu ft.

One ID sub company went further than that when I called to ask about their biggest sealed sub, the SVS SB13-Ultra. I was definitely being lead away from that or any other sealed sub except in the case of a room that is just too small for a "real" sub. I was told in no uncertain terms that a ported sub is preferable to a sealed one in just about all applications. The reasoning given was that sealed subs throw away the inherent extra output that ported provide, without gaining anything in return. Further, that there is no, zero, difference in inherent sound quality between sealed and ported, only in output capability, in which ported are superior. I came to the pretty obvious conclusion that for the guy who prefers sealed (even if he couldn't distinguish between sealed and ported blindfolded), SVS probably shouldn't be on his short list. I mean, if SVS doesn't believe sealed are even the equal of ported, why buy one of their sealed designs?


Mark Seaton must value what sealed offers over ported, ay? Rythmik's Brian Ding has offered examples of the technical superiority (not just in theory, but in practice) of sealed (lower group delay, greater bandwidth, etc.) when asked to. The ONLY advantage of ported is greater output above tuning frequency, isn't it? If that is all that's important to oneself, perhaps even feeling that that IS the only thing that distinguishes one sub from another, then ported is for you. To another, maximum output capability may be the least important consideration in choosing a sub or four. You know the type of guy, with his tube amps, dipole panel speakers, and expensive cables ;-).
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post #341 of 353 Old Yesterday, 06:53 AM
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This is a really interesting discussion regarding sealed vs. ported. Personally I like ported subs but I have read plenty of posts where guys love sealed subs for various reasons.

I think people really need to know what they want from a sub and understand what they are going to get when they choose sealed or ported. But it takes time and experience to figure those things out. Which means, a person may end up buying and selling subs until they learn what they want. I guess that's an endorsement for the free shipping and free in home trials offered by some of the ID companies.
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post #342 of 353 Old Yesterday, 06:58 AM
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The ONLY advantage of ported is greater output above tuning frequency, isn't it? If that is all that's important to oneself, perhaps even feeling that that IS the only thing that distinguishes one sub from another, then ported is for you. To another, maximum output capability may be the least important consideration in choosing a sub or four.
The thing to keep in mind is that ported offers greater output over a limited bandwidth, and the price to pay for that is a steep roll off below tune. If you've got a few fairly powerful sealed subs (SubM, Funk 18.0 & 18.2, Deep Sea Mariana, Cap S1 & S2, etc), the additional output of a ported design loses its importance, while the added bandwidth of sealed becomes useful/noticeable.

Further detracting from the output advantage of a ported enclosure is the problem of port compression, which you can see on the long term compression graphs at data-bass. For one example, consider the PB13 in 2 port mode versus the SI HST-18: technically if you beat on the PB13 hard enough, it will produce more output than the SI at 16 and 20Hz. However, in real world use, the SI may well feel more potent simply because it isn't compressing until the system limits are reached, whereas the ports on the PB13 start compressing at a lower level.
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post #343 of 353 Old Yesterday, 07:32 AM
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The thing to keep in mind is that ported offers greater output over a limited bandwidth, and the price to pay for that is a steep roll off below tune. If you've got a few fairly powerful sealed subs (SubM, Funk 18.0 & 18.2, Deep Sea Mariana, Cap S1 & S2, etc), the additional output of a ported design loses its importance, while the added bandwidth of sealed becomes useful/noticeable.

Further detracting from the output advantage of a ported enclosure is the problem of port compression, which you can see on the long term compression graphs at data-bass. For one example, consider the PB13 in 2 port mode versus the SI HST-18: technically if you beat on the PB13 hard enough, it will produce more output than the SI at 16 and 20Hz. However, in real world use, the SI may well feel more potent simply because it isn't compressing until the system limits are reached, whereas the ports on the PB13 start compressing at a lower level.
Yeah. My understanding is (in a large room) a ported sub is a cheaper way to achieve good output. It takes multiple sealed subs in a large space to achieve adequate output. Or you can buy fewer sealed subs if you buy the beastly subs you mention but those are pretty expensive in their own right.

Now in a smaller room you can get the output you want with a sealed sub due to cabin gain. That may allow you to get the output you want along with the extension offered by the sealed design. So in a smaller room the sealed option won't be so cost prohibitive. The best of both worlds.

As far as the ports compressing in a ported sub when you push it, well that will depend on a number of things. The quality of the sub being pushed, the power of the sub being pushed, how hard you are pushing it etc. I for one have never heard and noise coming from any of my ported subs. But I know others who have experienced it.
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post #344 of 353 Old Yesterday, 07:40 AM
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As far as the ports compressing in a ported sub when you push it, well that will depend on a number of things. The quality of the sub being pushed, the power of the sub being pushed, how hard you are pushing it etc. I for one have never heard and noise coming from any of my ported subs. But I know others who have experienced it.
Port compression isn't the same thing as port noise. Going back to the PB13 15Hz tune example, take a look at the compression graphs. You'll notice as low as the 105dB nominal sweep, there's nearly 3dB worth of compression around 16Hz, even though the system still has ~5dB more output to give when compared with the 115dB sweep. In comparison, the HST-18 isn't compressing until the 120dB sweep, when the driver is simply out of gas.
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post #345 of 353 Old Yesterday, 07:52 AM
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Port compression isn't the same thing as port noise. Going back to the PB13 15Hz tune example, take a look at the compression graphs. You'll notice as low as the 105dB nominal sweep, there's nearly 3dB worth of compression around 16Hz, even though the system still has ~5dB more output to give when compared with the 115dB sweep. In comparison, the HST-18 isn't compressing until the 120dB sweep, when the driver is simply out of gas.
Okay, I got you. That makes sense.

But back to the sealed vs. port debate. I really like the output of ported subs and a quality ported sub will have excellent sound quality. I'm not interested in the debate of whether a sealed sub sounds better than a ported sub because that's a rabbit hole that has no objective answer (I've seen posts citing blind tests supporting either side of the argument, how valid they were I can't say).

However, as much as I enjoy ported subs I'm equally intrigued by sealed subs and their extension. I'm not married to either design. I just know it takes a lot of sealed subwooferage to get strong output in a large space and that takes more money than the ported approach would cost in said space.
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post #346 of 353 Old Yesterday, 08:57 AM
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I generally have no problem with ported subs; I have ran ported subs in my home system with good result. I also run a ported sub in my boat because output is a premium in an open environment and sub location is limited to below the helm, but I run a pair of sealed in my truck because of space considerations and output is less of a premium in the sealed cabin of my truck. I was merely responding to the general claim that sealed subs "won't work" in most rooms in a home theatre. That is simply false, even though I recognize that budget constraints and other relevant factors can push people towards ported, especially in bigger rooms.
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post #347 of 353 Old Yesterday, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
I generally have no problem with ported subs; I have ran ported subs in my home system with good result. I also run a ported sub in my boat because output is a premium in an open environment and sub location is limited to below the helm, but I run a pair of sealed in my truck because of space considerations and output is less of a premium in the sealed cabin of my truck. I was merely responding to the general claim that sealed subs "won't work" in most rooms in a home theatre. That is simply false, even though I recognize that budget constraints and other relevant factors can push people towards ported, especially in bigger rooms.
Perhaps I should rephrase it so you don't get fixated on that...

Let's us SVS PB-2000 and SB-2000 as examples.
In open and/or large rooms, a SB2000 would not work as well as a PB-2000.

For SVS, this means unsatisfied customers, buyer's remorse, higher shipping expense due to returns and having to sell the returns at a discount. That's why SVS would rather steer customers away from a SB-2000 from the getgo.

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post #348 of 353 Old Yesterday, 09:55 AM
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Perhaps I should rephrase it so you do get fixated on that...

Let's us SVS PB-2000 and SB-2000 as examples.
In open and/or large rooms, a SB2000 would not work as well as a PB-2000.

For SVS, this means unsatisfied customers, buyer's remorse, higher shipping expense due to returns and having to sell the returns at a discount. That's why SVS would rather steer customers away from a SB-2000 from the getgo.
I'm not fixated. You've apparently withdrawn your claim so I'll move on.

I'll note that if I had $1000 to spend on one sub for my same room, I would almost certainly select a ported sub. With a bigger budget I'm going with my Seaton or a Funk Audio sealed offering. That's simply my preference, even though I am sure a ported option would "work" and sound excellent.

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post #349 of 353 Old Yesterday, 01:53 PM
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Sub users with a smallish sealed room (such as myself, in a 10H X 13W X 19D room) have the luxury of not needing the output of a pair or more ported subs. With the increased popularity of open floor plans, it seems that most people have to pressurize a lot of cubic feet, for which ported are obviously more efficient. The cost to sub a great room with sealed can be cost prohibitive.
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Sub users with a smallish sealed room (such as myself, in a 10H X 13W X 19D room) have the luxury of not needing the output of a pair or more ported subs. With the increased popularity of open floor plans, it seems that most people have to pressurize a lot of cubic feet, for which ported are obviously more efficient. The cost to sub a great room with sealed can be cost prohibitive.
Exactly. Well stated.
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post #351 of 353 Old Yesterday, 06:10 PM
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with the rash of new offerings the past few months, the $1000-2000 category is getting pretty congested
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post #352 of 353 Unread Yesterday, 06:49 PM
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with the rash of new offerings the past few months, the $1000-2000 category is getting pretty congested
Congested or interesting? I would say it's looking good for the consumer - there will be lots of new toys to choose from. Now if only Comcast had some competition like that I would be a happy man...

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post #353 of 353 Unread Today, 02:11 PM
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So in the $500 to $650 (shipped) range, what are the top 5 or so?

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