The Subwoofer Recommendation by Pricepoint Thread. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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What is your subwoofer recommendation by pricepoint? I think it might be interesting to see some of the forum's subwoofer enthusiasts' recommendations by price.

here is an example template to use for your particular recommendations:

Pricepoint
$100 -
$200 -
$300 -
$400 -
$500 -
$600 -
$700 -
$800 -
$1,000 -
$1,333 -
$1,666 -
$2,000 -
$2,500 -
$3,000 -
Price no object? -




LIST LINKS:

Archaea
Gorilla83
JimWilson
RanaKabir
RMK
shadyJ


"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
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post #2 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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As follows is my current list judged from both experience and being an active participant/reader on this forum. Of course there are alternates to each of these that I'd also recommend in a particular pricepoint - in some cases the winner could even be decided by a coin flip because the subs are so close in performance, but generally speaking these would be my 'go to' recommendation at a given pricepoint for the typical situation.

Subs in red designate models I've heard in person.

Pricepoint / Recommendation
$100 - Polk Audio PSW10
$200 - BIC F12
$300 - Klipsh RW-12D (indicates discontinued price but often available)
$400 - N/A
$500 - Rythmik FV12
$600 - Outlaw LFM1-EX
$700 - HSU VTF-3
$800 - Epik Empire or PSA XV15
$1,000- HSU VTF-15H
$1,333 - Rythmik FV15 HP
$1,666 - N/A
$2,000 - JTR Captivator (passive) + EP4000 Amp
$2,500 - Seaton Submersive HP
$3,000 - JTR Captivator S2 or JTR Orbit Shifter
Price no object? - to my experience there isn't much value in spending more than $3000 on a subwoofer...


You sure can do a lot these days with DIY if you can assemble a flat pack.
Boxes
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks-2.html
Drivers
$200 range - Stereo Integrity 18 HT
$250 range - Dayton Audio Ultimax 18"
$500 range - iST Ltd. UXL-18"
$1000 range - LMS 5400 18" or Stereo Integrity HS 24"

Amps like the iNuke DSP 1000, 3000, 6000, or 12,000 are stellar inexpensive options with built in fully featured digital signal processing including parametric EQs, dynamic EQs, voltage limiting, HPF and LPF functions.

Frequency response tools like REW or Omnimic allow for proper integration and setup with both DIY and Internet Direct subwoofer purchase/integration.



As to my subwoofer experience:
Ownership:
• Jamo 650 sub - discontinued price of $250. This Jamo is excellent for a smaller room full audible bandwith sub system (flat down to 20hz in room)
• Pioneer SW-8 = junk but still currently own for secondary system (purchased in 2012)
• Captivator Pro pair (purchased mid 2011) (love - all around my favorite sub I've ever encountered)
• SVS PB13 Ultra pair (purchased mid 2011) (sold - I didn't like them for music, but they did great in home theater!)
• Yamaha CW218V (purchased mid 2011) (sold - love for music - doesn't do much for home theater)
• Jamo D7sub pair (purchased mid 2011) (liked them quite a bit for $500 price - were fantastic for music with the right settings - THX Ultra II certified - overpriced MSRP - not very capable of high SPL - sold)
• Infinity HPS-1000 pair (purchased 2003) (very nice subs IMO, the best Infinity has ever made according to my local authorized repair shop that does anything but actually repair them correctly - one 15" driver with two passive 15" radiators and a 1000 watt amp -still own a pair - in storage closet currently)
with four 15" subwoofers (built in 2002 - sold)
• JBL PSW-D115 - 15" home theater sub (purchased 1999 - sold)
• AIWA HTIB sub = junk (bought in 1997 - sold)
• Multiple iterations of car audio subs, some I used in theater (all my life haha -- my favorite car audio drivers remain the Infinity Kappa Perfect drivers)



Subwoofers I've heard since Jan 2011.

BIC America Formula F12 at KCNitro07's house and my place
BIC America V1220 pair at KCNitro077's house and my place
Chase Home Theater CS 18.1 pair at my place and at husker omaha's meet
Chase Home Theater SS 18.2 at huskeromaha's meet
Chase Home Theater VS 18.1 pair at huskeromaha's meet
Crystal Acoustic TX-12 Sub at my place
Danley Sound Labs DTS-10 + JTR Growler at huskeromaha's meet, at nebrunner's house on Omaha home theater tour, and a pair of DTS-10s at Gorilla83's 2014 HT Heavy Hitters meet
Definitive Technology Supercube at Gorilla83's meet
DIY Dayton Audio 15" pair at ecrabb's house, and Gorilla83's meet
DIY Dayton Audio Titanik MK3 pair in 3.5 cubic foot sealed enclosures at KCNitro07's house
DIY Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 dual opposed box / Cerwin Vega CV-5000 watt amp at carp's house and a pair of dual opposed at mrsmither's house.
DIY Dual Cinema F-20 (lilmike designed) at huskeromaha's meet
DIY Dual gjallarhorn (ricci designed) at d_c's house.
DIY Infinite Baffle System with eight 15" AE subwoofers at desertdomes on Omaha home theater tour
DIY LMS-5400 pair in sealed 4.5 cubic foot enclosures / EP4000 at TJhub's house, and another pair in 3.5 cubic foot enclosures / Inuke DSP 6000 at Gorilla83's meet.
DIY Rythmik 15" at huskeromaha's meet
DIY Eight 18" SI HT drivers in sealed DIY Sound Group boxes / Cerwin Vega CV-5000 watt amp at carp's house, four at my house / Crown XLS-5000, four at scrappy dues house / Inuke DSP 6000, and yes the ultimate sixteen at popalock's house / two LG clone amps.
DIY THT at Braushs' house
DIY THT LP at KC Speaker Meet in the park 2013
DIY X48 15" Pro Audio sub at the KC Speaker Meet in the park 2013
DIY Four UXL18's powered by a Lab Gruppen Clone amp at HuskerOmaha's on the Omaha home theater tour
Elemental Designs A7s-450 18" at huskeromaha's meet
Epik Empire (heard four in the same room at counsil's place) and a single at my place, heard a pair at Gorilla83's meet, and a single at thebean's house
HSU ULS15 at Gorilla83 meet
HSU VTF-3 HO at andersa's on Omaha home theater tour
HSU VTF-15H pair at Luke Kamps house and the same pair at my place.
Infinity HPS-1000 pair at my place
Infinity IL100S sub at ignoring my wife's house
Jamo D7sub pair at my place and Luke Kamps place
Jamo Sub 650 at my place, at my borther's place, and a pair at tatersly's place
Jenson MS500 at my place
JTR Speakers Dual Captivator at carps house, my house, Gorilla83's meet, and bluesprings1's house
JTR Growler at HuskerOmaha's meet and at nebrunner's house on Omaha Home Theater tour
JTR Speakers Dual Orbit Shifters at my house, and a single at carps house, and jedimastergrant's house
JTR Speakers Dual S1 at my place
JTR Speakers Dual S2 at dlbeck's house
Klipsch RW-12D sub pair at my place, and my brother's place, and a single at my uncle's house
MFW-15 dual opposed DIY setup x 4 - (eight drivers) at huskeromaha's meet, and Omaha home tour at W00lly's house.
Motor City Custom Audio Dual MFW-15 Turbos at huskeromaha's meet
Onkyo THX HTIB sub at Luke Kamps house
Polk PSW10 at a non avsforum friend's house
Polk PSW505 at Gorilla83's place
Procella P18 and P10 at Randy Bessigner's Place
PSA XS15 at Gorilla83's meet
Rythmik E15 at Gorilla83's meet
Rythmik FV15HP at Gorilla83's meet
Seaton Sound Submersive HP heard five units in the same room at counsil's place, duals at my place, duals at carps place, triples at Gorilla83's meet, and a single at huskeromaha's meet.
Seaton Sound F2 at Gorilla83's meet
SVS 20-39 PCI at Gorill83's meet
SVS PB12+ at my place
SVS PB13 Ultra pair at my place, and a pair at scrappydues place, and a single at thebean's house
Yamaha 10" hometheater subwoofer at tatersly's house
Yamaha CW218V (dual 18" pro audio subs) at my place
~ and probably more I'm forgetting ATM.

and not so recently - - - scads of car audio subs --- up to some of the best types of subs like JL w7's and competition Orion drivers -- because I and many of my friends were into car audio.

My experience with subs that I would subjectively define as being able to pressurize a room?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1498734/pr...#post_23986185


My thoughts on the importance of subsonic ultra low frequencies?
Advice ; goal is 8-10hz flat at -15 reference


Since January 2011, I've attended (or hosted) the following full scale AVSforum audio meets.
2011 KC Meet (subwoofers)
2011 Omaha Meet (subwoofers)
2012 KC Blind Meet (subwoofers)
2012 Wisconsin Meet (speakers)
2012 Iowa Home Theater Tour (home theaters)
2012 KC Blind Meet (speakers)
2012 PA Meet (subwoofers and speakers)
2012 Omaha Home Theater Tour (home theaters)
2012 KC Speaker Meet in the Park (speakers)
2013 Iowa Blind Meet (speakers)
2013 Central Iowa Spring G2G (speakers)
2014 PA Gorilla83 HT Heavy Hitters Loudspeaker meet (speakers)
2014 Grand Opening of dlbeck's The Savoy Theater




And some smaller events:
A day split between a pair of JTR Captivators and a pair of Seaton Submersives in June of 2012 at carp's place
A brief evening spent comparing a pair of Jamo Sub 650s, a pair of Klipsch RW-12Ds, and a pair of Dayton Titanik MK3 subwoofers in August of 2012 at my brother's place
A afternoon split between a pair of JTR Noesis 212HT and a pair of JTR Noesis 228HT in February 2013 at carp's place
A short face off between a pair of JTR 228HTs and a pair of Tekton Pendragons at thebean's home
A short day of testing between my JTR Captivator pair and a quad set of Stereo Integrity 18" sealed cabs.


I've heard lots of speakers, everything from pairs of speakers costing upwards of $20k for a set, to the cheaper Internet Direct huckleberries touted heavily on this forum. Some of my favorites were not the ones that were most expensive necessarily. Read the links above to see my subjective evaluations on a lot of the various gear heard.
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"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Last edited by Archaea; 08-03-2014 at 08:56 AM.
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post #3 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 10:50 AM
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I can't say I disagree with any of those picks, but two things....1) some of the subs are listed at a "sale" price that is not always available, although it does show what patience will reward 2) I think the ED recommendation should be removed because of the companies current unknown status. IF they recover from their problems I have no issue with it being reinstated, but in their current state I don't think anyone should be buying direct from them. More than likely you'll never get what you paid for or your money back.
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post #4 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

As follows is my current list judged from both experience and being an active participant/reader on this forum. Of course there are alternates to each of these that I'd also recommend in a particular pricepoint - in some cases the winner could even be decided by a coin flip because the subs are so close in performance, but generally speaking these would be my 'go to' recommendation at a given pricepoint for the typical situation.
Subs in red designate models I've heard in person.
Pricepoint / Recommendation
$100 - Monoprice 12"
$200 - BIC F12
$300 - Klipsh RW-12D
$400 - ED A2-300
$500 - Rythmik FV12
$600 - Outlaw LF1-EX
$700 - HSU VTF-3 MK4
$800 - Epik Empire
$1,000- HSU VTF-15H
$1,333 - Rythmik F15 HP
$1,666 - LMS-5400 + DIY Flat Pack + EP4000 Amp
$2,000 - JTR Captivator (passive) + EP4000 Amp
$2,500 - Seaton Submersive HP
$3,000 - JTR Captivator S2 or JTR Orbit Shifter
Price no object? - to my experience there isn't much value in spending more than $3000 on a subwoofer...
I planned on bringing my LFM-1 EX and Plus to the GTG if you were interested in hearing them?
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post #5 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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audiophile2k -
agreed on ED - I'll put a warning note, but they still come up for sale used, and still represent a good value.

I'll also put a note on the sale priced model - though it has been on sale about every two weeks for the last year.

Reefdvr27 -
I am interested in hearing the outlaws, and I hope to attend Gorilla83's meet on October 20.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
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post #6 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 11:34 AM
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At $3k to 3.5k, I will take the Funk Audio 18.0 over a sealed captivator. Sure you might give up some output, but you still have gobs of it, plus it is way prettier. Basically its the platonic ideal of what a sub should be, to me at least. At 3.7 to $4k, I would go for a Funk Audio 18.3. I know there are nice subs above that price point, but up in that budget region I would rather have multiples of some of the subs already listed. Also I would definitely not recommend the ED sub, as was said above, who knows if that company is even in business at the moment. Instead I would recommend the Premiere Acoustics PA-150 at the $400 price point, or the Hsu STF2 or VTF1.
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post #7 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Feel free to make your own complete list as thats the intent of this thread. :P

By no means am I suggesting my list is the end all - I thought it'd be fun to compare lists and see differences of opinion. I may have clearly missed the mark on a recommendation that I'll see when other lists are generated.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
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post #8 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 01:31 PM
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I'll be interested to see how the Power Sound Audio subs from Tom V. will fit into this, I bet they will offer some serious competition at some of those price points. On that topic, it's weird that SVS doesn't offer any subs that are best at their price points anymore (opinion - I could be wrong), I remember when they seemed to be the end all be all.

As far as the list, it gets even more interesting (complicated might be a better word) if you compare duals to singles. For example whenever anyone asks for opinions for a budget around 1500-1700 my first thought is always dual Empires.
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post #9 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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You're right carp, 5 - 8 years ago SVS was all the rave! And duals do throw a monkey wrench into the charting structure in some cases. Heck the Klipsch RW-12D never ending closeout is a bit of an enigma at the $300 price point as well as I might recommend it over subs that cost $400 typically.

SVS still makes a quality product, but they continually crept their prices up as they've gained recognition IMO. Nothing wrong with that. They've earned the margins -- but they no longer necessarily represent best bang for buck. Though they still have some value options in the lesser tiers - the SVS PB-12 NSD could probably be an interesting combatant against the Epik Empire at the $800 price point. At the top end of their pricing structure they've got too much competition from the likes of JTR and Seaton. I do recognize that their used PB13 Ultras that keep popping up in the classifieds represent a stellar value at the $1000ish price point!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
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My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
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post #10 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Your right carp, 5 - 8 years ago SVS was all the rave!
SVS still makes a quality product, but they continually crept their prices up as they've gained recognition IMO. Nothing wrong with that. They've earned the margins -- but they no longer represent best bang for buck necessarily. Though they still have some value options in the lesser tiers - the SVS PB-12 NSD could probably be an interesting combatant against the Epik Empire at the $800 price point. At the top end of their pricing structure they've got too much competition from the likes of JTR and Seaton. I do recognize that their used PB13 Ultras that keep popping up in the classifieds represent a stellar value at the $1000ish price point!

The Empire would wipe the floor with the PB12, above 25 hz it begins to have many times the output of the PB12. With Rythmik around, I just don't see a good reason to get an SVS sub anymore. Rythmik will match the lower distortion and output of the SVS subs for less money. One nice thing SVS has is their cylinder subs, which do have great performance with respect to their footprint, and also their 5 year warranty on electronics which other manufacturers do not give. However, if you can handle the larger size of Rythmiks, Hsus, Epiks, and JTRs, they are definitely a better bang-for-the-buck regarding performance.
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post #11 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Price no object? - to my experience there isn't much value in spending more than $3000 on a subwoofer...

Price no object, has anyone heard the Krell Master Reference subwoofer? $34,000
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post #12 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 03:04 PM
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Wow that Krell is an awful value. It's using the same design as the Submersive, but it's a lot uglier. I don't think it will have much performance-wise on a Submersive, or Funk 18.3 or Captivator, or a Paradigm Sub 2 for that matter.
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post #13 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Your right carp, 5 - 8 years ago SVS was all the rave!
SVS still makes a quality product, but they continually crept their prices up as they've gained recognition IMO. Nothing wrong with that. They've earned the margins -- but they no longer represent best bang for buck necessarily. Though they still have some value options in the lesser tiers - the SVS PB-12 NSD could probably be an interesting combatant against the Epik Empire at the $800 price point. At the top end of their pricing structure they've got too much competition from the likes of JTR and Seaton. I do recognize that their used PB13 Ultras that keep popping up in the classifieds represent a stellar value at the $1000ish price point!

The Empire would wipe the floor with the PB12, above 25 hz it begins to have many times the output of the PB12. With Rythmik around, I just don't see a good reason to get an SVS sub anymore. Rythmik will match the lower distortion and output of the SVS subs for less money. One nice thing SVS has is their cylinder subs, which do have great performance with respect to their footprint, and also their 5 year warranty on electronics which other manufacturers do not give. However, if you can handle the larger size of Rythmiks, Hsus, Epiks, and JTRs, they are definitely a better bang-for-the-buck regarding performance.

yes if you only take into account SPL the Epik will wipe the floor with the SVS.

If your goal is a flat frequency response and you don't need the additional 10 dB of max SPL it looks like an incredible victory for the SVS PB12 NSD.

Depends on your goal. For most people I would say the Epik Empire is the $800 subwoofer system of choice. If you wanted FR accuracy at the expense of SPL level in a room with little room gain --- the SVS might just be the better choice.

Here is a FR chart from data-bass that Josh Ricci put together comparing the two at max output. The Epik is significantly more powerful, but the SVS has a significantly superior frequency response plot.


"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
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post #14 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 03:28 PM
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Lol I have argued this before. Once you put those in a normal room, the FR is going to be shot to hell anyway, and you will need room correction EQ to get either flat. Admirable though it may be, that razor flat EQ just doesn't matter that much coming out of the box. When you EQ for the room, the Empire will have a flat FR and still have a big output advantage. If all you want is a flat FR, that can be achieved with any sub and an EQ, all you have to do is keep scraping off headroom until everything is nice and even and quiet. This is what the PB12 does, and as a consequence achieves the all-time minimum measurement at 60 hz- a very crucial bass frequency. I am not impressed.
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post #15 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 03:50 PM
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Shady, I totally agree. I had a rather lengthy discussion in a couple of other threads about this same issue. You cannot compare outdoor ground plane and anechoic graphs to what you will achieve in room. One person was even convinced because a ground plane graph showed a roll off below 45hz on a sub, that it had to be the subs tuning frequency and it would not have good output below that. Charts and graphs are a great thing for those that know exactly what they are looking at, but only confuse the issue for what seems to be the majority of users.
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post #16 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Shadyj,
You can only scrape off peaks to the Epik's advantage if you have headroom to play with down low. One man's cuts are another mans boosts --- or so they say. To your direct point you could take all the headroom off the Epik Empire to make it flat like the SVS, but you'd no longer have any SPL advantage at all, and you'd have no greater low end frequency response (we know that because Josh's charts are generated at max spl). So IF your room happens to provide little room gain...do you want extra spl advantage up high, or do you want a flat frequency response at the expense of spl. That's the question with these two subs which boils down somewhat to design choices. There would be an advantage if you had a room mode in the higher frequencies and you had the extra SPL to play with on the Epik. In my room, the Epik Empire was not flat, thus I'd need external EQ to make it flat (If I wanted to pursue flat --- and in doing so I'd loose all that spl advantage - double whammy) But a slightly higher end SVS was fairly flat out of the box and thus remained fairly flat in my room. Two links with this discussion.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1394073/rw-12d-299-again/20_20#post_21655206
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1394073/rw-12d-299-again/20_20#post_21655303

I'm on the same page overall though. There are distinct advantages to dual opposed in my opinion. Two drivers firing opposite directions seems to have a positive effect over a single driver, aside from FR measurements gathered in a single position. Thus the Epik Empire is still my recommendation over the SVS PB-12 NSD - despite my devil's advocate bantering.


Audiophile2k
I'd rather not re-introduce that discussion here but there is a major distinction between these two scenarios --- SVS PB-12NSD vs. Epik Empire and Klipch RW-12D vs. BIC PL200.

The Epik Empire clearly has a large, no tremendous, SPL advantage over the SVS PB12-NSD at upper frequencies. However the Bic and Klipsch were effectively showing much more identical max SPL levels -- yet at equivalent SPLs one had a fairly flat FR plot, the other a mountain peak FR. If SPL's are equaled, the flat FR is more accurate and preferable.

Not all rooms offer generous room gain. Mine is an example. I'll leave it at this so as not to derail this thread!

Anyone have any ranking recommendations to post?

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
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post #17 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Shadyj,
You can only scrape off peaks to the Epik's advantage if you have headroom to play with down low. One man's cuts are another mans boosts --- or so they say. To your direct point you could take all the headroom off the Epik Empire to make it flat like the SVS, but you'd no longer have any SPL advantage at all, and you'd have no greater low end frequency response (we know that because Josh's charts are generated at max spl). So IF your room happens to provide little room gain...do you want extra spl advantage up high, or do you want a flat frequency response at the expense of spl. That's the question with these two subs which boils down somewhat to design choices. There would be an advantage if you had a room mode in the higher frequencies and you had the extra SPL to play with on the Epik. In my room, the Epik Empire was not flat, thus I'd need external EQ to make it flat (If I wanted to pursue flat --- and in doing so I'd loose all that spl advantage - double whammy)

The playing field might be leveled if the dips happened at the points where the PB12 and Empire were even, from 20 to 25 hz. That probably wouldn't happen in such a narrow range, and it still wouldn't eliminate the Empire's upper bass headroom advantage. You don't lose all that SPL advantage, it's still there, it just isn't being played back at a flat FR anymore if the Empire is pushed past that point.
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post #18 of 305 Old 08-18-2012, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

You're right carp, 5 - 8 years ago SVS was all the rave! And duals do throw a monkey wrench into the charting structure in some cases. Heck the Klipsch RW-12D never ending closeout is a bit of an enigma at the $300 price point as well as I might recommend it over subs that cost $400 typically.
SVS still makes a quality product, but they continually crept their prices up as they've gained recognition IMO. Nothing wrong with that. They've earned the margins -- but they no longer necessarily represent best bang for buck. Though they still have some value options in the lesser tiers - the SVS PB-12 NSD could probably be an interesting combatant against the Epik Empire at the $800 price point. At the top end of their pricing structure they've got too much competition from the likes of JTR and Seaton. I do recognize that their used PB13 Ultras that keep popping up in the classifieds represent a stellar value at the $1000ish price point!

You are right about that SVS no longer necessarily represents best bang for your buck. I’ve been looking for dual subs and here are the prices I see : a single PB13-ultra ( 2k ) , dual empire (1.5k) , dual hsu vtf-15hp ( 2k) and dual XV30 ( 2.5k). Single PB13-ultra is not in my the picture anymore.

PB13-ultra has been around for long time; got tons of fans no doubt about that, but lately PB13-ultra is no longer a contender in my book.
I settle for dual XV30, because of Tom V and Jim F, both work for SVS and part of PB13’s successful.
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post #19 of 305 Old 08-19-2012, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

$500 - Rythmik FV12

The FV12 is out of production, so you might have to choose another $500 option. wink.gif How close to that dollar amount does the price have to be? The Outlaw LFM-1 Plus might be a worthy contender, but it's $550.

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post #20 of 305 Old 08-19-2012, 08:05 PM
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Great list and topic for those looking to purchase soon. Thanks Archaea
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post #21 of 305 Old 08-20-2012, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

What is your subwoofer recommendation by pricepoint? I think it might be interesting to see some of the forum's subwoofer enthusiasts' recommendations by price.
here is an example template to use for your particular recommendations:
Pricepoint
$100 -
$200 -
$300 -
$400 -
$500 -
$600 -
$700 -
$800 -
$1,000 -
$1,333 -
$1,666 -
$2,000 -
$2,500 -
$3,000 -
Price no object? -

I would not throw in DIY because it opens up too may possibilities with multiples and sealed or ported designs. I would find DIY options that I would like for $500 and up and then add multiples to get more expensive. You guys never heard a DTS-10 in it's full glory and can tell you it kicks butt on the low end.
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post #22 of 305 Old 08-20-2012, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Feel free to make your own complete list as thats the intent of this thread. :P
By no means am I suggesting my list is the end all - I thought it'd be fun to compare lists and see differences of opinion. I may have clearly missed the mark on a recommendation that I'll see when other lists are generated.

I was able to get dual CHT VS-18.1s with the dayton amp for a price lower than the single cap with EP4000 amp. If the cost of the caps was lower and I could get duals with an amp for < 2k, I would have considered them. I know the caps have more xmax and most likely do more spl vs a single vs-18.1, but I would have trouble justifying to myself to go with a single ported 18" when I could get duals for an equivalent price. I did also like the caps smaller form factor and magnetic grill, but still not enough to tip the scales for me.

Maybe if I heard a cap I would sing a different tune, but unfortunately, I had to make my decision without that luxury. It would be nice if we had them all tested the same way in a single database.....rolleyes.gif.

Great list BTW.

resolution good....
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post #23 of 305 Old 08-20-2012, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I would not throw in DIY because it opens up too may possibilities with multiples and sealed or ported designs. I would find DIY options that I would like for $500 and up and then add multiples to get more expensive. You guys never heard a DTS-10 in it's full glory and can tell you it kicks butt on the low end.

Maybe if he added a multi subwoofer column and a DIY subwoofer column, it would take more things into account. You would almost need another column for size.... (S/M/L) maybe as many have limited real estate when choosing a sub.

To take on all of the possible combinations of what a person may weigh into a subwoofer decision is quite the challenge. biggrin.gif

resolution good....
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post #24 of 305 Old 08-20-2012, 09:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

At $3k to 3.5k, I will take the Funk Audio 18.0 over a sealed captivator. Sure you might give up some output, but you still have gobs of it, plus it is way prettier. Basically its the platonic ideal of what a sub should be, to me at least. At 3.7 to $4k, I would go for a Funk Audio 18.3. I know there are nice subs above that price point, but up in that budget region I would rather have multiples of some of the subs already listed. Also I would definitely not recommend the ED sub, as was said above, who knows if that company is even in business at the moment. Instead I would recommend the Premiere Acoustics PA-150 at the $400 price point, or the Hsu STF2 or VTF1.

That's the thing with a list like this.

A Funk 18.0 has much greater <15Hz output than the more expensive 18.3. Some may be looking for that, others may not and don't mind throwing out the low end (filtering, as all bandpass do).

A Submersive HP will have much greater <15Hz output than the JTR Captivator, as will the CapS.

There are folks who will vastly prefer greater 20Hz and up output at the expense of the low stuff and the Funk 18.3 or JTR Cap wins those categories easily for them.

Maybe it's best to list the best of each type of sub for a given price point. Or two lists. But to be honest, there are few properly done sealed subs under $2K that I've seen. The Empire for example is filtered ~20Hz:

A%20empire%20base%20response.jpg
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post #25 of 305 Old 08-20-2012, 11:14 AM
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Let's throw in a used buy!

CHT SS 18.1 and ep4000 for less than 500 !!

Throw in another used 18.1 for less than 800.
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post #26 of 305 Old 08-20-2012, 11:20 AM
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This has yet to be seen. I have only heard one subwoofer that is priced at over $3,000. That was a $10,000 Procella subwoofer, which I was not overly impressed with. I am eagerly awaiting the Seaton Terraform XL. Mark Seaton's customer service has been top notch, and I think that he might have something truly special in store for us when his Terraform XL is released. K

Ken Kreisel (the maker of one of the first subwoofers in the late 1960's) has also launched a new line of subwoofers after M&K went out of business. He is offering several different varieties, and the price gets increasingly more expensive for his flagship models. I have yet to hear them, but I did own his former flagship M&K MPS-5410 Professional sub.
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Price no object? - to my experience there isn't much value in spending more than $3000 on a subwoofer...
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post #27 of 305 Old 08-20-2012, 12:27 PM
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I like the sound or feeling of the 20hz and below stuff as well as great audio quality. I don't believe there is a single sub that can do what I need for my listening needs. I would vote for the Captivator S2 as the only sub to come close for what I need. The DTS-10 as a single did very well and as a single was the most satisfying experience for HT. Too bad it was so big but that is what is needed for a horn sub to get to 10hz in room. I have not owned enough recent commercial offerings to fill in the list because the last 7 years has been mostly DIY. I have owned Chase and JTR Cap1000's but I never really compared single to single but same money systems to each other. Everyone's list will be different to what they could place in room.
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post

Ken Kreisel (the maker of one of the first subwoofers in the late 1960's) has also launched a new line of subwoofers after M&K went out of business. He is offering several different varieties, and the price gets increasingly more expensive for his flagship models. I have yet to hear them, but I did own his former flagship M&K MPS-5410 Professional sub.

I dunno man, I'm having trouble weeding through all the marketing BS to find FR specs, measurements or any sort of performance claims.

"SIGNATURE STUDIO SOUND SUBWOOFER SYSTEMS featuring BALANCED 3D HIGH VELOCITY PUSH-PULL-PULSAR DEEP BASS PRESSURE WAVEFRONT Technology™"

A pair of sealed 12" and 750w for $3K? Well okay, as long as they're 3D. rolleyes.gif
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post #29 of 305 Old 08-20-2012, 01:36 PM
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Any Axiom Audio sub!

wink.gif
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post #30 of 305 Old 08-20-2012, 02:38 PM
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I don't disagree Aknot5. Who knows what the 3D technology is all about? In the end, it really is what the sub is capable of doing. A sub can be completely unattractive, but if it can produce good bass, it will have my attention. Of course, customer service, or lack thereof, can also affect my willingness to consider a product for my dream home theater experience.
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I dunno man, I'm having trouble weeding through all the marketing BS to find FR specs, measurements or any sort of performance claims.
"SIGNATURE STUDIO SOUND SUBWOOFER SYSTEMS featuring BALANCED 3D HIGH VELOCITY PUSH-PULL-PULSAR DEEP BASS PRESSURE WAVEFRONT Technology™"
A pair of sealed 12" and 750w for $3K? Well okay, as long as they're 3D. rolleyes.gif
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