Upgrade Bug Bit Again Subwoofer Recommendations ~$1000 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 08-20-2012, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,

My birthday is coming up on Wednesday and I figured what better way to celebrate than to buy a new subwoofer!

Currently I have a 7.1 Polk Monitor setup with an Epik Legend subwoofer. It has performed admirably, the only thing I haven't liked about it are its hollow sounding mid range low frequency output (if that makes sense). I have an L-shaped room where the home theater operates (please see attached image for dimensions). My home has an open layout, my home theater set-up is located in the upper rectangle which then opens up into my kitchen and hallway to the rest of my house.

I have a budget around ~$1000, and would be willing to go slightly over if necessary. I have been considering Rythmik F15HP, FV15HP and HSU ULS15 and VTf15.

My listening will be primarily HT 20%, Gaming 70% and Music 10%, however at this price tier I would hope that I would not have to differentiate listening as the subwoofer should reproduce accurately what ever is thrown at it.

I place much higher value in SQL over SPL and definitely enjoy sub 20Hz performance.

I have been leaning toward the Rythmik F15HP at this point however, I am open to suggestions.

I appreciate your help!

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post #2 of 35 Old 08-20-2012, 09:45 PM
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VTF15H
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post #3 of 35 Old 08-21-2012, 06:40 PM
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how much you selling your legend for? lol
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post #4 of 35 Old 08-22-2012, 06:33 AM
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Vtf is you want a combo of sq and SPL. Uls for the sq but it might be lacking in SPL. Maybe shoot for two hsu vtf 2 Mk 4's to get the best of everything. Sq, SPL and fr.

butter and jelly please.
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post #5 of 35 Old 08-22-2012, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

how much you selling your legend for? lol

Haha sorry, I am going to use it for my computer sub not for sale.
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Originally Posted by pukemon View Post

Vtf is you want a combo of sq and SPL. Uls for the sq but it might be lacking in SPL. Maybe shoot for two hsu vtf 2 Mk 4's to get the best of everything. Sq, SPL and fr.
butter and jelly please.

It seems like everyone is in favor of HSU any reason against Rythmik? I read the $1000 subwoofer shootout and the HSU VTF15H tied with the Rythmik FV15. He did however allude that 'If you're looking for top quality sound and max SPL - but with a little more peace of mind, we suggest stepping up to the FV15HP'. So maybe the FV15HP would be a better option?

I also just got an bump in spending money I can spend $1500 now if that brings in any new contenders

I appreciate your advice!
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post #6 of 35 Old 08-22-2012, 09:20 AM
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im not sure if the rythmik is available anymore. but if it where me, save up a tad bit more and go with dual VTF15Hs!
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post #7 of 35 Old 08-22-2012, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry to add more confusion to the mix however, it is my birthday today and the gifts have been much more generous than expected. My new budget is $2000 which brings in contenders such as the SVS PB13 Ultra and ED A7s-650. I am not an expert (no surprise why I am here), but I take it at some point diminishing returns has to kick in where the more money you put in the less you are getting out of it. Will there be a substantial enough difference in upgrading to the $2000 tier subs to justify the cost?

I sincerely appreciate your input and am sorry to keep changing my budget on you.
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post #8 of 35 Old 08-22-2012, 10:43 AM
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Anything from eD is out of the question, as they are no longer in business. Just read the eD thread here for more info. For a 2K budget, I'd seriously consider getting a Captivator. Would blow away Rythmik and HSU, and for the most part, the SVS Ultra as well.

If one is going to make a simplistic assessment of the value of different alignments, it would be that sealed/IB goes the lowest, at the highest cost per dB; horns have the lowest cost per dB at the expense of size, and vented box characteristics lie in between the other two. None is inherently superior across the board, neither is any inherently inferior across the board. The one to use is the one that fits your response and output needs, available space and bank account. -BFM
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post #9 of 35 Old 08-22-2012, 11:09 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1425179/the-subwoofer-recommendation-by-pricepoint-thread

post 2 has what you want if you want a single sub
post 45 has what you want if you want a dual sub setup
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post #10 of 35 Old 08-22-2012, 11:14 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1337881/submersive-hp-pb13-ultra-or-captivator-currently-have-fv15hp-2-ar-1s
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post #11 of 35 Old 08-23-2012, 11:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for your input. I am going to do some soul searching this weekend and hopefully make a final decision!
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post #12 of 35 Old 08-24-2012, 12:53 AM
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I was in the same boat as you on price and went with a VTF-15H and could not be happier. Excellent customer service too.
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post #13 of 35 Old 08-24-2012, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I had narrowed down my search to either the SVS PB13 Ultra or the Seaton Submersive HP and have made the decision to go with the SVS. I think the 5year warranty for the SVS over the 3year for the Seaton is what really solidified my final decision (the free shipping on the SVS was a great bonus as well). It was also a little disconcerting to see that the Seaton Sound website has been down 'while they work on their new website'. That just rubbed me the wrong way and there are countermeasures they could have implemented to keep their current website running while they designed a new one.

I was disheartened that SVS discontinued their American Cherry and Natural Oak finish frown.gif so now I am stuck with gloss black or black oak. I think I am going to ge the black oak smile.gif

Thanks again for your input and links!
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post #14 of 35 Old 08-24-2012, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post

I had narrowed down my search to either the SVS PB13 Ultra or the Seaton Submersive HP and have made the decision to go with the SVS. I think the 5year warranty for the SVS over the 3year for the Seaton is what really solidified my final decision (the free shipping on the SVS was a great bonus as well). It was also a little disconcerting to see that the Seaton Sound website has been down 'while they work on their new website'. That just rubbed me the wrong way and there are countermeasures they could have implemented to keep their current website running while they designed a new one.
I was disheartened that SVS discontinued their American Cherry and Natural Oak finish frown.gif so now I am stuck with gloss black or black oak. I think I am going to ge the black oak smile.gif
Thanks again for your input and links!

Congrats on your decision.

The free shipping on the SVS is more marketing than anything, the S+H is just implemented into the total cost.

The Seaton website has been in the works for a long time now but all information as well as interfacing with Mark and other users is done on their web forum: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com. The extra $450 for a SubM HP does get you a better subwoofer (another way of saying you get what you pay for,) but the extra 2 years warranty plus cheaper price of the SVS certainly makes it an appealing option.

Enjoy your new sub!
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post #15 of 35 Old 08-24-2012, 04:43 PM
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I used to own a PB13 for a while, GREAT sub. But after getting the chance to experience a Submersive not too long ago my vote would be for the Seaton, hands down. Either way congrats on the new sub. smile.gif
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post #16 of 35 Old 08-24-2012, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post

Haha sorry, I am going to use it for my computer sub not for sale.
It seems like everyone is in favor of HSU any reason against Rythmik? I read the $1000 subwoofer shootout and the HSU VTF15H tied with the Rythmik FV15. He did however allude that 'If you're looking for top quality sound and max SPL - but with a little more peace of mind, we suggest stepping up to the FV15HP'. So maybe the FV15HP would be a better option?
I also just got an bump in spending money I can spend $1500 now if that brings in any new contenders
I appreciate your advice!

Good advice on the FV15HP, BUT!! I went with a FV15 and it's a killer sub. Look again at the pics of the subs though. It is big, as is the HSU.

Jeff
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post #17 of 35 Old 08-25-2012, 04:03 PM
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I thought the Submersive had a 5 year warranty? Either way I'm not too worried about it, I don't think I can hurt these subs if I tried...

I too have heard dual Ultras and dual Submersives and it was not close. I liked the Ultra for movies but was unimpressed for music. I was wowed for both movies and music with the Submersives. The only subs I've heard that is in the same league is the Captivators I used to own. The Submersives are better than the Cap for music and for movies the Caps are better on some scenes and the Submersives are better on others. All my opinion of course.
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post #18 of 35 Old 08-26-2012, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I thought the Submersive had a 5 year warranty? Either way I'm not too worried about it, I don't think I can hurt these subs if I tried...
I too have heard dual Ultras and dual Submersives and it was not close. I liked the Ultra for movies but was unimpressed for music. I was wowed for both movies and music with the Submersives. The only subs I've heard that is in the same league is the Captivators I used to own. The Submersives are better than the Cap for music and for movies the Caps are better on some scenes and the Submersives are better on others. All my opinion of course.

'All new items carry a 3 year warranty from manufacture defect from the time of receipt of the product. Warranty is transferable by the original owner supplying us with the new owner's name, e-mail, and postal code.'-Mark Seaton

If the Submersive carried a 5 year warranty it would have been a much tougher decision for me. I also wish more information was available on the drivers they use in their subs, from what I could see I wasn't impressed as compared to the PB-13 Ultra's driver which is an absolute mammoth. I am going to move my Epik Legend to my computer room and set up a 2.1 system with my Paradigm Studio Reference 100 v.2, so that should cover my musical needs.

Next on my list is to get rid of my Polk Monitor 7 speaker set-up, I am really learning toward a Klipsch Reference set-up with RF-7 mains however, I have to replenish my funds a bit first haha. I was also thinking on moving my Polk speakers into my computer room and purchasing rear/center Paradigm v.2 speakers to make a HT system out of the Studio 100s that I already own; a much cheaper option.
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post #19 of 35 Old 08-26-2012, 09:46 AM
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I love my HSU ULS15s but if you're only getting one maybe the VTF. HSU has excellent customer service and technical support. If you are going to go multiple eventually the ULS15s are a good bet.


Edit: I missed the budget upgrade.

Ok 2 ULS 15s biggrin.gif

Kaboom.
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post #20 of 35 Old 08-26-2012, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post

'All new items carry a 3 year warranty from manufacture defect from the time of receipt of the product. Warranty is transferable by the original owner supplying us with the new owner's name, e-mail, and postal code.'-Mark Seaton
If the Submersive carried a 5 year warranty it would have been a much tougher decision for me. I also wish more information was available on the drivers they use in their subs, from what I could see I wasn't impressed as compared to the PB-13 Ultra's driver which is an absolute mammoth. I am going to move my Epik Legend to my computer room and set up a 2.1 system with my Paradigm Studio Reference 100 v.2, so that should cover my musical needs.
Next on my list is to get rid of my Polk Monitor 7 speaker set-up, I am really learning toward a Klipsch Reference set-up with RF-7 mains however, I have to replenish my funds a bit first haha. I was also thinking on moving my Polk speakers into my computer room and purchasing rear/center Paradigm v.2 speakers to make a HT system out of the Studio 100s that I already own; a much cheaper option.

Thanks for the info, too bad it's not a 5 year warranty.

Also thanks for not being upset at my post, I cringed a little after posting that - no one wants to hear that someone else thinks they should have gone with something else. Obviously the Ultra is a beast of a sub, has had a GREAT reputation for years, and you will be more than pleased!! smile.gif

I've never heard the RF-7's but would love to since they go way back and are loved by many. Good luck with your new setup when funds are available again if you do decided to go that direction - maybe go ahead with the cheaper Paradigm option in the short term and then save up for Klipsch for the long term?
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post #21 of 35 Old 08-26-2012, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info, too bad it's not a 5 year warranty.
Also thanks for not being upset at my post, I cringed a little after posting that - no one wants to hear that someone else thinks they should have gone with something else. Obviously the Ultra is a beast of a sub, has had a GREAT reputation for years, and you will be more than pleased!! smile.gif
I've never heard the RF-7's but would love to since they go way back and are loved by many. Good luck with your new setup when funds are available again if you do decided to go that direction - maybe go ahead with the cheaper Paradigm option in the short term and then save up for Klipsch for the long term?

I was going to do that until I caught wind of an awesome KEF deal:

I bought 5 of these (2x for surround, 2x for rear channels and 1x for center): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882156011&Tpk=kef%20iq70

and 2 of these for Front L/R: http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542082593/kef-iq90-black-ash?s_c=site_search

Should be a decent upgrade (or at-least I hope) from my current Polk Monitor 70/60 system biggrin.gif.
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post #22 of 35 Old 08-26-2012, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Thanks for the info, too bad it's not a 5 year warranty.
Also thanks for not being upset at my post, I cringed a little after posting that - no one wants to hear that someone else thinks they should have gone with something else. Obviously the Ultra is a beast of a sub, has had a GREAT reputation for years, and you will be more than pleased!! smile.gif
I've never heard the RF-7's but would love to since they go way back and are loved by many. Good luck with your new setup when funds are available again if you do decided to go that direction - maybe go ahead with the cheaper Paradigm option in the short term and then save up for Klipsch for the long term?

I was going to do that until I caught wind of an awesome KEF deal:

I bought 5 of these (2x for surround, 2x for rear channels and 1x for center): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882156011&Tpk=kef%20iq70

and 2 of these for Front L/R: http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542082593/kef-iq90-black-ash?s_c=site_search

Should be a decent upgrade (or at-least I hope) from my current Polk Monitor 70/60 system biggrin.gif.

Lol. I was going to recommend you get the 90s for mains when I saw the 5 70s mentioned. Nice. I would test the 70 to see how it fairs as center. If you can do it upright, it will probably work very well. I don't plan on upgrading anytime soon, but this might be the direction I go. I too have a polk audio monitor 70 mains and monitor 60 wides setup. Cs2 center. Works nicely as is now tangled up with an onkyo 3009. I hope to hear and read more reviews on kef soon. I don't think for me it will be worth the upgrade. Specs are similar aside from driver quantity on the 70s, which can dig deeper upfront. The biggest difference maker which is still small compared to the Polks, is the kefs have 90 and 91 db sensitivity rating on the woofers. Should be able to play slightly louder more clearly. That is a lot of money to spend for a small gain and not recoup but maybe 1/3 from selling Polks. The aesthetics are a draw too. I give polk a slightly higher rating for aesthetics if you take off the grills and the black face/silver cone monitors from new egg though.

butter and jelly please.
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post #23 of 35 Old 08-26-2012, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Lol. I was going to recommend you get the 90s for mains when I saw the 5 70s mentioned. Nice. I would test the 70 to see how it fairs as center. If you can do it upright, it will probably work very well. I don't plan on upgrading anytime soon, but this might be the direction I go. I too have a polk audio monitor 70 mains and monitor 60 wides setup. Cs2 center. Works nicely as is now tangled up with an onkyo 3009. I hope to hear and read more reviews on kef soon. I don't think for me it will be worth the upgrade. Specs are similar aside from driver quantity on the 70s, which can dig deeper upfront. The biggest difference maker which is still small compared to the Polks, is the kefs have 90 and 91 db sensitivity rating on the woofers. Should be able to play slightly louder more clearly. That is a lot of money to spend for a small gain and not recoup but maybe 1/3 from selling Polks. The aesthetics are a draw too. I give polk a slightly higher rating for aesthetics if you take off the grills and the black face/silver cone monitors from new egg though.
butter and jelly please.

I will let you know how I take the transition from Polk to KEF. Although unintentional, over this past week I effectively moved my current HT set-up to a sound system for my computer, which should prove advantageous for Counter Strike: GO smile.gif. I really have emptied my pockets, in addition to my HT upgrade I am putting in a new sound system in my car consisting of a JL 13w7, I am DONE spending for a while or until I save up for a second PB-13 Ultra wink.gif
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post #24 of 35 Old 08-26-2012, 11:23 PM
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I wouldn't be concerned over the warranty issue one way or the other. I'd rather have the Seaton any day. YMMV. Good website doesn't necessarily mean good subs...

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post #25 of 35 Old 08-27-2012, 09:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post

Hi All,
My birthday is coming up on Wednesday and I figured what better way to celebrate than to buy a new subwoofer!
Currently I have a 7.1 Polk Monitor setup with an Epik Legend subwoofer. It has performed admirably, the only thing I haven't liked about it are its hollow sounding mid range low frequency output (if that makes sense). I have an L-shaped room where the home theater operates (please see attached image for dimensions). My home has an open layout, my home theater set-up is located in the upper rectangle which then opens up into my kitchen and hallway to the rest of my house.
I have a budget around ~$1000, and would be willing to go slightly over if necessary. I have been considering Rythmik F15HP, FV15HP and HSU ULS15 and VTf15.
My listening will be primarily HT 20%, Gaming 70% and Music 10%, however at this price tier I would hope that I would not have to differentiate listening as the subwoofer should reproduce accurately what ever is thrown at it.
I place much higher value in SQL over SPL and definitely enjoy sub 20Hz performance.
I have been leaning toward the Rythmik F15HP at this point however, I am open to suggestions.
I appreciate your help!
dimensions.png 8k .png file

If you are 70% gaming, how many games have below 20hz information? If you are interested in sub 20hz performance, that requires higher SPL's. Seems like to me you would be better off getting another Legend (duals) as opposed to one big megabuck sub.
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post #26 of 35 Old 08-27-2012, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I thought the Submersive had a 5 year warranty? Either way I'm not too worried about it, I don't think I can hurt these subs if I tried...
I too have heard dual Ultras and dual Submersives and it was not close. I liked the Ultra for movies but was unimpressed for music. I was wowed for both movies and music with the Submersives. The only subs I've heard that is in the same league is the Captivators I used to own. The Submersives are better than the Cap for music and for movies the Caps are better on some scenes and the Submersives are better on others. All my opinion of course.

Man, everytime I see the term"Ultra" I think of my LMS... I was like...waaaa! lol
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Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

I used to own a PB13 for a while, GREAT sub. But after getting the chance to experience a Submersive not too long ago my vote would be for the Seaton, hands down. Either way congrats on the new sub. smile.gif

But dizzel, what ended up curing your itch?
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Originally Posted by Todeseng3l View Post

I had narrowed down my search to either the SVS PB13 Ultra or the Seaton Submersive HP and have made the decision to go with the SVS. I think the 5year warranty for the SVS over the 3year for the Seaton is what really solidified my final decision (the free shipping on the SVS was a great bonus as well). It was also a little disconcerting to see that the Seaton Sound website has been down 'while they work on their new website'. That just rubbed me the wrong way and there are countermeasures they could have implemented to keep their current website running while they designed a new one.
I was disheartened that SVS discontinued their American Cherry and Natural Oak finish frown.gif so now I am stuck with gloss black or black oak. I think I am going to ge the black oak smile.gif
Thanks again for your input and links!

May the upgraditus bug stay at bay... (Fingers-crossed)

In my quest for sub satisfaction I ended up with a pair of Ultras myself... :-P

Still yet to be determined if the itch is cured...
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If you are 70% gaming, how many games have below 20hz information? If you are interested in sub 20hz performance, that requires higher SPL's. Seems like to me you would be better off getting another Legend (duals) as opposed to one big megabuck sub.

Great point Auditor! This should save you enough coin to possibly go for quads if you desire or upgrade your mains sooner if you like. I own the RF-7ii's myself. Great for HT, a tad bit fatiguing for music (my on fault) and SUPER AWESOME when everyone is drunk and want's effin loud!

 

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post #27 of 35 Old 08-27-2012, 10:04 PM
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But dizzel, what ended up curing your itch?
4 Ultras baby! And I'm not talking about the SVS's (no offense to anyone).
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post #28 of 35 Old 08-28-2012, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

4 Ultras baby! And I'm not talking about the SVS's (no offense to anyone).

Yeeeah... I ask because the title of this Thread is: "Upgrade Bug Bit Again Subwoofer Recommendations"

"Again" is the key word.

I don't know how many sub variants you have been through over the years Tod, but there are dozens of members who have went through the same type of sub crusade (evolution?) you are currently on in an attempt to satisfy the upgraditus bug.

When I started researching a replacement for my Definitive Technology Supercube Reference, I had several contenders I was considering. My goal was to reach the uber lows that many of the serious sub guys on the forum were talking about... I wanted to feel 10-12Hz. Here is evolution of my research:

- Dual Klipsch KW-120-THX (Made Sense to match my current Klipsch gear, but would have cost like $3,600 and started reading there were better alternatives for the money)
- Dual Epik Empire (Cost effective and I could have gotten quads for the price of the Klipsch)
- Dual Rythmik FV15HP (This Shootout convinced me that that these were able to reproduce the lows better than most other options and had me hooked for a short time)
- Dual Epik Conquest (The CraigSub review of these convinced me, hands down that these were the subs for me. Too bad I was 3 years late to that party and couldn't find any to purchase!)
- Dual LMS Ultra DIY (What I ended up with. Edogg, Lukeamdman and Notynt,were my influences convincing me that this was the end-all-be-all sub)

Edogg went from Dual Conquest to Dual LMS Ultras and that put the nail in the coffin for me. Have I ever thanked you for that buddy?

So, as far as money actually spent, my evolution went from the Definitive Technology (Best Buy Brand) to Dual LMS Ultras in my own DIY cabinet. It's been a process (still ongoing), but the single LMS Ultra I have up and running currently surprises me every day. I'm confident that duals will satisfy my itch. If they don't, since I'm at the top of the food chain, it won't be a matter of upgrading to different subs. It will be a matter of adding more subs.

Bottom-line… Try not to skimp out now, only to want to “change/upgrade” your equipment in the future. As Carp has noted, dual submersives will undoubtedly outshine the dual SVS Ultras, so I hope (for your sake) that dual SVS Ultras will satisfy your itch. Otherwise you are either going to have to buy one or two more SVS Ultras to reach the performance of the submersives, or change out your equipment again.

This comes down to more of your own personality traits more than anything. I want you to keep this in mind though. If you were the type to be satisfied, the Legend should already be enough…
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post #29 of 35 Old 08-28-2012, 03:27 AM
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One other thing I forgot to mention.

If you want to ensure the bug doesn't bite again, do not audition someone elses equipment you know is going to outshine your own...

I know if I visited Edogg out in Cali, I'd be wanting quads and I know if Not let me audition his setup I'd probably want to upgrade to Octo. (<---?) That's my personality though...

As of now, I have the most intense bass my friends and I have ever felt in a home theater. I should be satisfied for years to come.

 

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post #30 of 35 Old 08-28-2012, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

If you want to ensure the bug doesn't bite again, do not audition someone elses equipment you know is going to outshine your own...
Thats soooo true! You dont know what youre missing if you dont know what youre missing. wink.gif
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