Decision Time is Finally Here. Flip a coin? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 66 Old 09-08-2012, 04:35 AM
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If it is for only HT the the XV15 will more than fill your needs! If it was for 50/50 then the Hsu VTF-15 would be better. I have heard about about 6 different brands of subs and even though i have not heard PSA they do look like the old SVS line of subs and of course Tom help create SVS. For HT those subs are a steal. I would PM reefdiver and others on the PSA thread and ask him about his subs.

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post #62 of 66 Old 09-08-2012, 06:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

^^^^^
Is it just me or do those 3 pics look like something that has nothing to do with subs?? TGIF!!!!! biggrin.gif
Carry on......

Forgive me as no pun intended, it's a hard image, not to notice. tongue.gif
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post #63 of 66 Old 09-08-2012, 06:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

It's telling you that quite literally, the output at 20Hz for example, is delayed by about 110ms. This is a predictable result of a bass reflex enclosure combined with a steep high pass filter to protect the driver. Audibility is debatable; no study has proven the threshold one way or the other at these frequencies. Of course, as Ed at SVS pointed out to me, given that GD is inherently related to frequency response, the room and any EQ/auto setup easily have the potential to change things up considerably...

I've been commenting on "decay" as opposed to "delay." For me, decay or a lack of decay equals a tighter or bloated bass signature. As to the rest of it (tuning frequencies, the style of enclosure, other than Audyssey analyzing and EQ'g the room), it's all above my pay grade.

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The PB12-NSD has a purposefully flat FR and good bandwidth linearity (basically, flat FR at the limit), which is what you're seeing.

And I'm loving on it.

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Natively (ie without EQ), the Empire well...does not. However, aside from right around the tuning frequency of the PB12, the Empire offers considerably greater output, as one should expect from dual 15" drivers and 50% more juice. Of course, that the PB12 can keep up at tuning frequency is a great demonstration of the inherent efficiency of a vented box at tuning frequency.

And for the price, I'm loving on it. In the words of one Homer Simpson,......Mmmmmmmmmmmmm! biggrin.gif

The deeper you go on this issue, the less I know; which in this case, ain't hard as now I get to read up on; "Group Delay."

I'm coming from a pair of nineteen year old 12" subs that at best, get down to 28Hz. These new subs are a marvel by comparison, on the order of two, if not three magnitudes worth of improved sound quality (okay, three might be a stretch) that's why the intense interest as even though only a pair of 12" subs, the replacement upgrade is going be a huge sonic improvement. I honestly don't think our personal listening levels will take advantage of a pair of larger subs. I finally convinced the wife that dynamic range demands you keep your hands off the remote. That was a coop in of itself as once she understood the why, she was good.

Honey, it's how the mixer, mixes the dynamics of the movie track. It's dialogue vs the booms and the bangs and then back to the quiet passages of whispers and normal office conversation.

We were watching a John Travolta/Samuel Jackson movie; "Basic." Huge dynamic range in that mix from field office interrogation to battlefield training exercises. My opinion, the move was an intentionally terrible mis-representation of today's advanced Army Ranger training but was an excellent example of the dynamics of a well done movie sound track mix. Either which way, it made sense and my wife let the volume stay on the level I had set it at. Yaaaaaaaay! I win one. rolleyes.gif

And yes, a big shout out to Ed's thoughtful passion and his willingness to sincerely help bring neophytes up to speed regarding subs and his product line.

Currently reading this PDF article regarding "Group Delay."

I forget, was the "Hilbert Transform" discussed at the end of "Acoustics 101" or the beginning of "Acoustics 1A?" tongue.gif

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post #64 of 66 Old 09-08-2012, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I've been commenting on "decay" as opposed to "delay."
I know; just pointed it out, as it's also an aspect that some claim affects the perceived "speed" of a subwoofer.
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

And I'm loving on it.
And for the price, I'm loving on it. In the words of one Homer Simpson,......Mmmmmmmmmmmmm! biggrin.gif

No question in my mind that SVS knows how to competently engineer a subwoofer.

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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

My opinion, the move was an intentionally terrible mis-representation of today's advanced Army Ranger training.
How can it be??? eek.gif
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

it's all above my pay grade.
Don't feel bad. As much (or little, depending on how you look at it) as I know, I'm aware that my knowledge in the field is dwarfed by the actual pros.
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post #65 of 66 Old 09-08-2012, 07:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

How can it be??? eek.gif

Considering the good Army Ranger history has done for the world, I'd expect a better representation of their mindset and training but hey, that's expecting far too much out of Hollywood. I'll just say that was the best, poorly scripted Travolta movie I've witnessed. The ending was both contemptible and laughable, rolled into one. rolleyes.gif

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Don't feel bad. As much (or little, depending on how you look at it) as I know, I'm aware that my knowledge in the field is dwarfed by the actual pros.

Knowledge being that double edged sword of; the more you know, the less you know.

"Here, grab onto this slippery pole."

..................wink.gif

I sure appreciate your efforts to elucidate these issues.

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post #66 of 66 Old 09-08-2012, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by matrixj3 View Post

If it is for only HT the the XV15 will more than fill your needs! If it was for 50/50 then the Hsu VTF-15 would be better. I have heard about about 6 different brands of subs and even though i have not heard PSA they do look like the old SVS line of subs and of course Tom help create SVS. For HT those subs are a steal. I would PM reefdiver and others on the PSA thread and ask him about his subs.

I've owned a XV15 roughly 3 weeks... Upgraded from a budget sub.... Had my mind set on a PB12+, but couldn't look past getting a 15" sub, for a tad over $700.... I'll be up front, i don't fully understand all the fine lines of the graphs, nor all the technical sh!t.... What i did know going in was this sub was going to sound awesome for Tv/Movies/Games.... Only sub i heard prior to this sub was my budget Acoustic Audio 10" sub, so i can't compare other subs, but i'm in awe on its performance on Music!! The genres of music i throughly enjoy listening to with this sub is jazz, bluegrass/country, jamgrass, acoustic, and sound board recordings.... Will admit the local pop radio station daughter listens to, does sound good.... The bass is clean, tight, and punchy, with no more boomy bass. Hearing and feeling the stand up bass in music is great biggrin.gif

Two of these would be awesome, planning on adding a twin next year.....

PSN= Jamweiser
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