PLEASE HELP me Choose sub setup for M&K S150 system - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 36 Old 09-27-2012, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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There are way too many boutique brands out there. How in the world should somebody decide to spend their money if they can't ever test these? It is all very abstract. I did call Hsu research and found that the vtf-2 in my pricerange, but they are ported and it seems, although probably depending on taste, sealed may be the way to go. Nobody has mentioned the Epik Legends--anything wrong with those?

Joe
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post #32 of 36 Old 09-27-2012, 08:10 PM
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Ported/non-ported isn't the point to obsess about. Both designs can work equally well. It's just way easier to build a good sealed box sub, far less design effort, it gets down to putting the driver in a box that has the right volume. Designing a tuned port sub is far more complex, but Dr. Hsu does understand port tuning, perhaps better than anyone.

I think the Epik Legends were mentioned, perhaps more than once, and were recommended.

It's not like subwoofers exhibit any particular tonal color, like a full range would. The cover so little total spectrum.
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post #33 of 36 Old 09-27-2012, 08:42 PM
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Just to elaborate a bit more...

Subs only cover about 2 octaves, from 20Hz to 80Hz. In that range, the room has so much influence on performance that you can't think of the sub as a speaker, you have to think of the sub and the room as the mechanism that produces sound. This is more true of subs than any other speaker type. For your mains, yes there are room effects, but they are mostly reflections that can be dealt with, and response issues that can be equalized out. But for a sub in a room, what you hear is actually the excitation of room modes, standing waves if you will. You can't have sub bass without them. When modes add, you have emphasis at that frequency that you can equalize down, but when they result in a response null, you also can't eq response back up. Changing the room dimensions or shape totally changes the entire picture, and where you place the sub determines which modes get excited. You can't ignore the room, and just focus on which sub to get. Even a fantastic sub in a bad room or bad location won't sound good. We can argue if a good sub sounds better in a bad situation or not, but that's really ignoring the entire mechanism, sub and room together. It also serves little purpose to concentrate on sub design, maximum SPL or minimum frequency of a sub alone. There is so much more to it than that.

As writers of opinions here, we can't see your room, can't measure its response or hunt down ringing modes, can't play with sub position, bass traps, or anything. All we can do is talk about subs and their merits, again, half the picture.

What I've been trying to say here is that when you use multiple subs you increase the chances of exciting more room modes, which in turn results in smoother response, and the impression of better bass. As a contrast, consider subs in the car stereo world, where the work at one note..about 40Hz. They rumble down the street making tons of 40Hz. But they couldn't do 30Hz well, much less 20Hz. It may be impressive to be loud at 40Hz, but it's not a good solution for serious low frequency reproduction. Modes in a room may not be that bad, of course, but the point is similar.

When you use more subs in an unknown room, or a difficult one, you statistically increase the chances of even response by exciting more modes. That's actually far more of a positive contribution to the overall performance of the system than having a single high performance sub that can't get the room working with it.

That about does it for me, I know others may disagree.

If you want to get something you can try and send back if you don't like it, have a look here:
http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers/bravus-family/bravus-iia-10d-powered-subwoofer

Perhaps there are better performing subs, even cheaper, but you don't have to commit to anything with these, send 'em back for free if you don't like them. In the trial period, you can move them around the room and experience first hand how important location is, how interactive the room is, and learn it all without investing permanently. Of course, you could buy something used and re-sell it if you don't like it. Not quite as good a deal, but non-committal.

Hope this all helps, rather that increases confusion.
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post #34 of 36 Old 09-29-2012, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for your elaboration. This has been an extremely helpful thread. I believe I will either end up with the Outlaw Audio or Hsu Research Sub!

Thanks again so much for all that contributed!

Joe
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post #35 of 36 Old 12-30-2012, 08:46 PM
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I actually have a two questions. 1. i am looking into eventually buying the m&k s-150 or the m&k sw-150's. I recently purchased a used b&k 307 receiver with 150w per channel. will this even run these speakers or will I have to get a pre- amp and amp since they are 4 ohm speakers?the receiver i bought used does not say the ohm level on back. I would like to get the in wall150's but i do not know if they would sound better than the enclosed standard 150's. I have also heard that the new m&k's do not sound better than the old thx cert. ones. second, If i end up going with the standard s-150's does m&k sell wall mounts to mount them on to my walls? I know a lot has changed with the company shifts with ken going solo. but i would really like a mounting kit. Here is a even funnier note. my listening distance from couch to speakers is about 20 feet! I was hoping that the 3 s-150's would be sufficent but I might of messed up by buying this b&K component receiver. thanks for reading and a possible response! rolleyes.gif
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post #36 of 36 Old 03-17-2014, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I assumed you guys know the M&K speakers he has which I do. I did not feel to explain why the 4311 might not be enough and it does have to do with volume and impedance. Many receivers put out less power at 4 ohms than 8 ohms and if said receiver does not handle 4 ohms well it won;t matter how loud because it would shut down from instability.
Everything you say here is also true of separate power amps. just another example of extreme over generalization. Many receivers will shut down when overworked. Many separate power amps will also shut down when overworked. Many receivers are not rated for 4ohm impedance. So too, many separate power amps are not rated for 4ohm impedance. It is totally and completely senseless to make blanket statements about receivers and power amps this way. one cannot intelligently assume that because it is a receiver that it will be less powerful than a stand alone power amp. Many statements that you read in forums like these will lead you to believe that this is true. that effectively ANY receiver is simply inferior with respect to its power handling capabilities to that of ANY separate power amp.
Simply not true. I have a Denon 4308ci and there are a very large list of separate power amps that don't hold a candle to it's power handling even with all seven channels driven. But driving just two channels, forget about it...
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