Best Value 12" Subwoofer from This List - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 27 Old 10-07-2012, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
yuriygeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This post is in tandem to the post found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432446/best-current-bookshelf-speakers-and-sub-combo

Which of these Subwoofers are most economical and still produce high-end quality sound, and are most suitable to the setup described in above link?


Polk 12" PSW Series Subwoofer - 150 Watt - $210
Model: PSW 125 Black


Infinity/Harman 12" 400-Watt Powered Subwoofer - $290
Model: PS312BK


Linear Platinum Powered Subwoofer - $310
Model: PSW112


Sunfire 300-Watt 12" Dual Driver Powered Subwoofer - $330
Model: SUN-SDS12


Polk 12" DSW Pro Series Wireless Ready Subwoofers - 500 Watt
Model: DSW Pro 660 wi - $400
yuriygeorge is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 27 Old 10-07-2012, 10:03 PM
Advanced Member
 
Jrunr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Where did you see that Sunfire SDS-12 for $330?
Jrunr is offline  
post #3 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 03:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
blake18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 61
You REALLY should consider the Bic pl-200, I just bought it and got it tuned in to my system. Unfreakin-believable sound quality and low end extension. Massively underrated.


http://www.amazon.com/BIC-PL-200-Acoustech-Platinum-Series/dp/B001W3FXAQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349691549&sr=8-1&keywords=Bic+pl-200

Lumenlab "Community driven video lab".
blake18 is online now  
post #4 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 07:42 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,330
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 656
I posted this same question on your AVS speaker forum thread. Why just this list?

These subs are not regularly recommended in this forum. If you are working with an installer, they can install whatever sub you want. It's just a matter of running the sub cable and picking the best location for the sub.

Also, you pointed out in your other thread that you are interested in a music setup, not HT. Best to mention that here as the recommendations may be different.

cel4145 is online now  
post #5 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
yuriygeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

Where did you see that Sunfire SDS-12 for $330?
I'm a member to this exclusive online club and get these prices; the membership fee is pretty expensive though. Unfortunately, I can't post the name of the club on here because it's against the rules to post prices. But, if you really want to know, pm me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blake18 View Post

You REALLY should consider the Bic pl-200, I just bought it and got it tuned in to my system. Unfreakin-believable sound quality and low end extension. Massively underrated.
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-PL-200-Acoustech-Platinum-Series/dp/B001W3FXAQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349691549&sr=8-1&keywords=Bic+pl-200
Can anyone else vouch for this? I'd really like to stick to the list above since I get discounts on those products, but if there is already a good deal out there, better than in my list above, then I'm open to that as well.
yuriygeorge is offline  
post #6 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
yuriygeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I posted this same question on your AVS speaker forum thread. Why just this list?
These subs are not regularly recommended in this forum. If you are working with an installer, they can install whatever sub you want. It's just a matter of running the sub cable and picking the best location for the sub.
Also, you pointed out in your other thread that you are interested in a music setup, not HT. Best to mention that here as the recommendations may be different.

Yes, I'm interested in a music setup, not HT. Thanks for clarifying. Like I said, I would prefer to stick to the list since I get club discounts, but I'm open to buying the sub(s) outside of this list, since I don't have a large selection. You recommended dual-subs for the music set up. Can you recommend one or two? Thanks
yuriygeorge is offline  
post #7 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 08:58 AM
Member
 
nikerret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuriygeorge View Post

Can anyone else vouch for this? I'd really like to stick to the list above since I get discounts on those products, but if there is already a good deal out there, better than in my list above, then I'm open to that as well.

Look around the forum, namely, this sub-section. It is often recommended and regarded as a high value.

nikerret is offline  
post #8 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 09:06 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,330
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 656
One of the problems you may have is that people are most familiar with the subs that are good value to everyone. So you may have trouble getting recommendations out of that list

As far as dual subs, you pick one sub you like and then just get a second exactly the same. What happens is when you only have one sub, you tend to have parts of the room that have more bass than others. Two can then be distributed in such a way that the bass response will be more even throughout. You might have two sort of on opposite sides of your setup in the front soundstage. Or you might place one near one corner and one near the opposite corner. Sort of depends on the room and your placement options.

For a recommendation, Newegg was selling the Energy S10.3 for around $199 ea. If they do get back in stock, two of those would work very well. It's probably considered the best all around sub for music at the $200 price point that has some solid down to below 30hz and decent SPL for filling a room.

And that's one of the things you'll want to think about, too. What kind of music will you DJ? Some EDM/hip hop/rap has bass content down into the 30hz range, and on some occasions, even lower. Other types of music (rock), you could probably be fine with a sub that doesn't respond as well that down low. Also, some people when they think of good bass response are mainly just interested in that midbass punch. In that case, a sub that is tuned to around 40 to 50hz and then rolls off could be the best choice because you can find subs in your budget range with a lot of output. In your budget range, every sub choice is going to be compromise of either SPL, SQ, or low frequency extension. So figuring out exactly what you want can make it easier to decide. For instance, do you want to run the setup very loud? If not, then SPL may not be as important.

cel4145 is online now  
post #9 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
yuriygeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

For instance, do you want to run the setup very loud? If not, then SPL may not be as important.

No, I'm not interested in it being super loud. But, loud enough, if not a tad bit louder. This setup will be in a condo of about 1200 square ft. I'd only throw parties about once a month so the neighbors shouldn't be too upset. Plus, I have concrete floors/ceilings. I'm interested in playing hip hop, electro house, and some dubstep. So my guess is, especially because of dubstep, I would need to be able to handle the low frequencies.

For my purposes, Is the sun fire pretty good? Is the energy one you recommended better?
yuriygeorge is offline  
post #10 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 03:32 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,330
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 656
The Sunfire subs haven't been that popular here because of their price, so I haven't read much about them (perhaps someone else has). However, it has a very good review:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-sunfire-dynamic-series-sds-12-subwoofer

Easily seems worth $330. Start with one, and then if you feel like you want more uniform bass coverage throughout your room, get another smile.gif
yuriygeorge likes this.

cel4145 is online now  
post #11 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
yuriygeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
All right, I will go ahead with the Sunfire sub. Now I gotta figure out which bookshelves to get. Thanks!
yuriygeorge is offline  
post #12 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 05:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,330
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 656
One other suggestion. I don't know what you were planning on using as your amplification, but Audyssey Multi EQ and higher (not 2EQ) on Denon, Onkyo, and Marantz HT receivers has built in EQ filtering for the speakers AND the sub. So you use the included microphone to let it calibrate the system, and Audyssey will help to flatten some of the frequency response fluctuations of the sub (and the speakers, too) at the listening point that are caused by the room itself. It can help very much to improve the sound of a sub (or subs) in your room.

Also, HT receivers have bass management capabilities that high pass filtering. So you have more options for a crossover for the speakers and sub. Without the high pass filtering, typically you have to set the crossover on the sub near the low frequency roll off of the speakers, whereas sometimes a higher crossover would actually sound better if you have bass management.
yuriygeorge likes this.

cel4145 is online now  
post #13 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
yuriygeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

One other suggestion. I don't know what you were planning on using as your amplification, but Audyssey Multi EQ and higher (not 2EQ) on Denon, Onkyo, and Marantz HT receivers has built in EQ filtering for the speakers AND the sub. So you use the included microphone to let it calibrate the system, and Audyssey will help to flatten some of the frequency response fluctuations of the sub (and the speakers, too) at the listening point that are caused by the room itself. It can help very much to improve the sound of a sub (or subs) in your room.
Also, HT receivers have bass management capabilities that high pass filtering. So you have more options for a crossover for the speakers and sub. Without the high pass filtering, typically you have to set the crossover on the sub near the low frequency roll off of the speakers, whereas sometimes a higher crossover would actually sound better if you have bass management.

Thanks for the info regarding the receiver. My immediate thought is to get the Denon 1713, but I still have to do more research and/or make another post in the Receivers section.
yuriygeorge is offline  
post #14 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 06:57 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,330
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 656
The 1713 is a good one. The DNLA networking and Apple Airplay streaming is nice to have for parties. You can stream the music from a computer playlist.

cel4145 is online now  
post #15 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 07:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Elfather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by blake18 View Post

You REALLY should consider the Bic pl-200, I just bought it and got it tuned in to my system. Unfreakin-believable sound quality and low end extension. Massively underrated.
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-PL-200-Acoustech-Platinum-Series/dp/B001W3FXAQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349691549&sr=8-1&keywords=Bic+pl-200

what is the difference between this and BIC F12?
Elfather is offline  
post #16 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 07:52 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,330
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 656
The PL-200 is the big brother of the BIC F12. However, based on the measurements in the S&V magazine article, the Sunfire is a better sub. The BIC PL-200 peaks at about 45 hz and then drops very fast (2nd graph). In fact, it doesn't have a very flat response at all. Assuming we can compare the graphs from the S&V article (since different people did take them) the Sunfire is much better in that regard, and it also appears to have more maximum output.

cel4145 is online now  
post #17 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 07:59 PM
Member
 
colohtpc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
For $300 check the $300 sub list. The very best at this price range are the Klipsch RW12d and and Jamo 650- no contest on the others in this range. These hold their own vs $750 - $800 subs and you can find them regularly under $300. Check New Egg and /or Vans.
Archaea likes this.

colohtpc is offline  
post #18 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 08:02 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,330
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by colohtpc View Post

For $300 check the $300 sub list. The very best at this price range are the Klipsch RW12d and and Jamo 650- no contest on the others in this range. These hold their own vs $750 - $800 subs and you can find them regularly under $300. Check New Egg and /or Vans.

Go read that review of the Sunfire. It certainly looks like it can compete pretty well with those subs, and the OP can get it for $330. For mainly music, looks to be the better choice.

cel4145 is online now  
post #19 of 27 Old 10-08-2012, 08:11 PM
Advanced Member
 
Jrunr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The 1713 is a good one. The DNLA networking and Apple Airplay streaming is nice to have for parties. You can stream the music from a computer playlist.

Is it as good, or better, than the 1913 (only need 5.2)
Jrunr is offline  
post #20 of 27 Old 10-09-2012, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
yuriygeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The 1713 is a good one. The DNLA networking and Apple Airplay streaming is nice to have for parties. You can stream the music from a computer playlist.

I think that's very useful feature. Also, if I have an airport express in my bedroom connected to my 2.1 computer speakers, then I could simultaneously play music through the Receiver's Tower Speakers/Sub via Airplay and the bedroom speakers via Airplay (Apple allows you too pick both Airplay systems to stream at once). But, the problem is, if I have a deejay who wants to plug in his own laptop and spin music through that, then he would only be limited to playing from iTunes right? What if he's got his own deejaying software that he uses that isn't compatible with ITunes/Airplay. Then, how can I achieve playing music to both speakers in both rooms. My guess is I need a multi-zone receiver, right? Would the Denon AVR-1713 allow that? But I guess these are all questions for a separate "Receivers" thread, which I have made here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1433168/multi-zone-multi-room-receiver-for-speakers-in-a-condo-for-throwing-parties
yuriygeorge is offline  
post #21 of 27 Old 10-09-2012, 06:36 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,330
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 656
If the DJ has his has optical or HDMI output, you could plug him directly to the receiver. Doesn't matter what software then.

cel4145 is online now  
post #22 of 27 Old 10-09-2012, 07:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,610
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by colohtpc View Post

For $300 check the $300 sub list. The very best at this price range are the Klipsch RW12d and and Jamo 650- no contest on the others in this range. These hold their own vs $750 - $800 subs and you can find them regularly under $300. Check New Egg and /or Vans.

Go read that review of the Sunfire. It certainly looks like it can compete pretty well with those subs, and the OP can get it for $330. For mainly music, looks to be the better choice.

cel,

the sunfire sub falls off ridiculously hard at 30hz.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-sunfire-dynamic-series-sds-12-subwoofer?page=0,2


it's a beast at 50hz @ 122.5dB!!! eek.gif

Though the measurement criteria weren't the same - it appears the sunfire sub might just be louder than the $700 hsu, svs, velodyne, klipsch, and outlaw from the 2007 subwoofer shootout sound and vision famously did!

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/shootout-five-mid-price-subwoofers

...that said 30hz bottom isn't ideal for all dubstep (though it'd likely suffice for a good portion of it) which the op says is his choice of music and the op says he doesnt want loud as the primary goal.

the sunfire sub is interesting to me but 78db at 20hz compared to 122dB at 50hz... ouch


i'd take the jamo sub 650 in a heartbeat personally for my 300$. It won't play nearly as loud at peak, but it's going to be capable of true 20hz in room, and be relatively balanced FR for music playback --- even before external EQ options.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Archaea is offline  
post #23 of 27 Old 10-09-2012, 07:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,610
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by blake18 View Post

You REALLY should consider the Bic pl-200, I just bought it and got it tuned in to my system. Unfreakin-believable sound quality and low end extension. Massively underrated.


http://www.amazon.com/BIC-PL-200-Acoustech-Platinum-Series/dp/B001W3FXAQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349691549&sr=8-1&keywords=Bic+pl-200

Blake,

No doubt you have enthusiasm, and I understand you are very happy with your BIC purchase? However -- what subs have you compared the PL-200 to?

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Archaea is offline  
post #24 of 27 Old 10-09-2012, 09:51 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,330
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

i'd take the jamo sub 650 in a heartbeat personally for my 300$. It won't play nearly as loud at peak, but it's going to be capable of true 20hz in room, and be relatively balanced FR for music playback --- even before external EQ options.

Granted that the Jamo has that advantage, but it not available from Vanns any more.

cel4145 is online now  
post #25 of 27 Old 10-09-2012, 11:48 PM
Advanced Member
 
Jrunr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I am really kicking myself that I did not buy a second Jamo 650 when they were available. In all honesty, I wasn't overly impressed when I first got it. I did not sound all that powerful, or seem to reach that deep, or even really seem to blend well with my other speakers. But, after living with it and breaking it in for a couple of weeks it has really opened up. I don't have any way to give you guys "technical measurements" but i can tell you that by ear (my ears actually) it has really opened up and become so much better. I just wanted to share my thoughts... lol
Jrunr is offline  
post #26 of 27 Old 10-10-2012, 12:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
blake18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Blake,
No doubt you have enthusiasm, and I understand you are very happy with your BIC purchase? However -- what subs have you compared the PL-200 to?

I compared it to a Sunfire dual 10" True Sub Mark ll and against a Klipsch rw12d. The BIC won out by a rather big margin in my opinion.

(I own all 3)

Lumenlab "Community driven video lab".
blake18 is online now  
post #27 of 27 Old 10-10-2012, 03:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,610
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 474
fair enough!

do you still have all three? Did you compare them in the same room on the same equipment and same placement?

Play a 25hz test tone on all three subs until you hear bad sounds.

http://realmofexcursion.com/downloads.htm


I'll wager the RW-12D will have the greatest clean SPL towards the bottom end and by a significant amount. The BIC may engage a stronger limiter than the Klipsch, which may make it sound cleaner at extreme volumes --- but it'll be at the expense of flat output in the 20hz range. But I appreciate your perspective in that you've heard the three before. I've only heard the Klipsch RW-12D of these two systems, my experience with BIC products is limtied to the BIC F12 and V1220, which I've compared directly to the RW-12D. I've compared the data available from several sites (sound and vision, data-bass, avsforum, etc) on the RW-12D vs. the BIC PL200 and the data seems to indicate that the PL200 is inferior to the Klipsch RW-12D in regards to frequency response and SPL. Perhaps later this year or early next year I will be directly comparing them. I plan to host a budget subwoofer shootout around the turn of the year in KC, and will likely have both subs showing up.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1364182/list-of-budget-subwoofers-300-and-less/280_20#post_22267268

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Archaea is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off