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Old 10-19-2012, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I know there are a bunch of threads about subwoofers in apartments and what-not, but I just wanted to run this by you guys to see what you think without bringing up old threads or hi-jacking threads.

In a month (the weekend after Thanks Giving), we'll be moving into a much bigger, nicer apartment on the 3rd floor. This place is NICE and even though I've played my system pretty loud at times in our current place, we've never had any complaints. Also, our current place shakes and bounces with a heavy enough foot fall. The new place we're moving to is very solid. I have common sense, but still don't want to upset the neighbors obviously.

Anyway, some loudspeakers that I've tried selling over the past few months just won't sell because I can't ship them and am not going to give them away. These include a mint pair of AV123 X-Statik's with matching X-Voce center channel as well as a pair of nearly mint NHT 2.9's.

What I'm thinking about doing in this new apartment is this... The room is actually supposed to be two rooms, a living room and dining room. Physically, it's just one large room, I'd say roughly 15' x 25' with a large open kitchen and dining area to the side (about another 8' x 15'). On top of that, this room has about a 13' high vaulted ceiling.

I am going to use the AV123 speakers across the front, use the 2.9's for rears running fullrange, and I think also place both of my Polk PSW505 subwoofers in the rear, between the NHT's. This way, all of the bass will be directly behind us or along side us depending on how we can set up the couches and such. I'll either buy or build a couple of SubDude's for the subs. This would keep all of the bass producing gear as close as possible to our seating location, allowing me to keep the output of the subs dialed down as much as possible, yet still be balanced and keep as much of the bass from getting into the apartment below us.

Personally, I think it's a pretty solid idea that will work really good. However, I'd still like to hear other's ideas.

So what do you guys think?


Many thanks in advance! wink.gif

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Old 10-19-2012, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, nothing at all?...

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Old 10-19-2012, 02:00 PM
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Sounds like a good plan, go for it.

Do some sound tests with all of your neighbors so you know how much sound is transmitting. I did that with mine, so I know exactly how high of volume I can go before I start knocking stuff off their shelves.

 


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Old 10-19-2012, 02:40 PM
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Agreed that your first step should be to introduce yourself to the neighbors and inform them of your setup. Ideally, you can get a chance to run your system in its ideal positions, and see how the sound translates to their space. Best case scenario, they don't care or the building is actually pretty good at deadening (I know, I know, fat chance of that biggrin.gif) and you can both live happily. Worst case, the building is like paper or they're extremely sensitive, but you've at least saved yourself a visit from the police after they call because of noise.

The subdude/decoupling pads help in terms of reducing vibrations which is a good thing, but aren't really going to stop low frequency waves, given that they're long and omnidirectional. Still, if the sound is right on the edge, cutting down vibration may do it. Quieter will help obviously, but with any apartment, you're at the mercy of the neighbor's tolerance to your listening and how well the building was constructed for reducing sound between units. Rarely do subs and apartments work well together. A lot of people have turned to the tactile feedback of buttkickers and the like to get low frequency effects when bass was too much for the space.
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:00 PM
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+1 Carlo

The isolation platforms for my subs helped greatly with rattles in my apartment but did little for the low frequency bass my neighbors were hearing for the reasons mentioned.

I would suggest not putting the subs in corners of shared walls, and treating any shared wall corners with traps. That seemed to make a significant difference in my case.

 


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Old 10-20-2012, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I know the SubDude's do nothing for sound transferring to the lower apartments, but to help reduce vibrations through the floor. That may be enough to alone to not bother the neighbors below us.

The nice thing is, no matter if I set up the system on the front wall or back wall, they are nowhere near the neighbors beside us. The one wall is where the entrance is which is a solid, concrete wall. The other wall is also the wall to one of the bedrooms. From that wall, it has to go through a total of 3 fairly large bedrooms before it reaches the next apartment. So obviously, the lower apartment is the only real concern.

I honestly don't think I'll have any issues, but just want to take all the precautions.

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Old 10-20-2012, 03:54 PM
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It is not about the walls. Low frequency is non directional. So even if you play at low volume, the neighbors can hear it unless all the walls, floor and ceiling are made of some 6" of concrete.

The subdude is nothing but a gizmo to make money. It is just a piece of MDF and packaging foam. Nothing space age about it as they claim. They are using the same deceptive marketing tactics which Bose uses to lure people into buying their junk. I have shown pictures of a DIY subdude using MDF and PC packaging foam (dark grey foam) in the subdude thread. It only costs a couple of bucks to make one.

The subdude may cut some vibration to the floor especially if you have a down firing sub but it does nothing to prevent the bass from getting transferred. If people have money to throw away, they can buy that subdude junk for some $50 and pretend that it solved all their problems smile.gif if you pay someone, they will write raving reviews about anything in a magazine. Have you ever seen any critical negative reviews of any audio/video gear in any of the magazines?

Like you said before, just use common sense and keep the volume down or use a head phone. There is no point asking here if the bass would bother your neighbors. Just play it loud and go ask them if it is bothersome. The only precaution that will be effective is not to play a sub or large speaker in an apt. at all.

If the walls of a house or apt. building can prevent the bass from getting across, you will not hear all the subs people play in their cars/trucks outside. Bass is omnidirectional and in a building made of wood, there is just no way to keep it from getting to the neighbors, even 3 apt.s away, unless you sound proof every inch of the room.

There are 100's of such threads like this where people come asking for ways to avoid bothering their neighbors in the apt. with a darn sub. There is really no way except sound proofing every inch of the room. No it is not like you have no issues. It is just that if you are lucky and get neighbors who are very tolerant to noise, then you will continue to bang your speakers/sub thinking that the neighbors cant hear them. Some may be very heavy sleepers and that would also turn out to be in your favor.

You should be glad you dont have neighbors like me smile.gif I am also glad I moved out of an apt. some 9 yrs ago when HT crap was not as popular as it is now, where a lot of people who live in apt. have a HT of some kind with a subwoofer.

I once had to sleep at my cousin's place as he was closer to the airport than I was and I didnt want to miss the flight due to snow. I could not sleep at all as the neighbors were banging their HT. He didnt care as he is a heavy sleeper and also he didnt stay in the apt. most of the time!
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:21 PM
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The subdude may cut some vibration to the floor
It won't even do that. The walls of well made subwoofers do not vibrate, so there's nothing there for a subdude or other isolation devices to isolate. The vibration of floors, walls, ceilings and objects are caused by the acoustic output of the sub. What an isolation device can do is prevent said floor vibration from rattling the sub, but it won't reduce low frequency sound transmission through the floor by a single decibel.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quite honestly, I've been using subs for the past three years in our current apartment which is not built anywhere near as solid as the new place we're moving into, and we've never had any complaints. Again, it's the whole common sense thing. Then again, you have my girlfriend that gets all into her video games on our bedroom system and she cranks the crap out of it, with that 15" sub pounding in the corner, yet still no complaints. Either our current neighbors don't care or the bass isn't nearly as loud in their apartments as I think it would be.

All of the subs we have are all front firing. The only down firing sub I had was the massive SVS PB12-Plus/2, and that thing violently shook the entire complex.

I'm well aware of how bass travels, but was just curious to see if there were any new tricks to tame them to an extent as I have been out of the HT scene for a little while.

More importantly is the question of how I'm actually going to lay the system out (placement and such). The thing that sucks about this particular apartment layout is that as soon as you open the door, the entire system will be right there to see. Hmm...

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Old 10-20-2012, 05:35 PM
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I'm well aware of how bass travels, but was just curious to see if there were any new tricks to tame them .
There are no tricks. The only thing that stops bass from passing through walls, floors and ceilings is mass, a lot of it. If there's sufficient mass in yours to contain the bass all well and good. If not the only cure is the volume control.

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Old 10-21-2012, 01:05 AM
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Like I have said before, there are 100's of such threads where people ask for ways to cut bass. Like it was said before there is no easy way unless you sound proof every inch of the room or you have 6" concrete walls.

If no one complained then you are just lucky. It is not because the bass didnt travel across the walls. You may have common sense but your GF does not seem to have any. It is ridiculous to use a sub of any kind or large speakers in an apt. and come here asking for tricks to avoid bothering the neighbors. It does not matter where you place it. There may be nulls at some places but people do move around in the neighboring apts. and also they may get a peak in their living room or bed room. So they WILL hear the bass and it is bothersome to many people.

People who live in a glass house should not throw stones. Similarly, people who live in apt. should not use a sub/large speaker.
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Old 10-21-2012, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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You may have common sense but your GF does not seem to have any. It is ridiculous to use a sub of any kind or large speakers in an apt. and come here asking for tricks to avoid bothering the neighbors..

For one thing, there's absolutely no reason to come in here and say crap about my girlfriend. Second, there's absolutely no reason to be freaking RUDE and INCONSIDERATE! No one likes or wants a smart a$$, so stop while you're ahead.

I don't care who you are or how long you've been on the forum. You have no right to talk to other members the way you do, period.


And just so you know, it doesn't matter one bit what size subwoofer or loudspeaker you have. What matters is how you use the volume control. So with that in mind, I'll ignore any and all other WRONG comments you make.

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Old 10-21-2012, 04:12 PM
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The 505s are not known for much output <40hz so that will help. All things being equal the deeper the bass the more likely you'll disturb a neighbor.

Try to keep the subs as close to the seating positions as possible too. You can even try calibrating them a little low.

Tom V.
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Old 10-21-2012, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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The 505s are not known for much output <40hz so that will help. All things being equal the deeper the bass the more likely you'll disturb a neighbor.
Try to keep the subs as close to the seating positions as possible too. You can even try calibrating them a little low.
Tom V.

I plan on keeping them close to our seating position.

And not much output below 40Hz?!... I don't know what was wrong with the 505's you listened to or read up on, but I have measured mine down to an easy 20Hz in my room with both TrueRTA and SynRTA and calibrated mic through a dbx mic preamp. Granted, they are down roughly 8dB @ 20Hz, but still plenty usable output.

On a side note, thanks for a normal reply.

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Old 10-21-2012, 04:46 PM
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You could use some bass shakers to help augment the bass. I have a 2 seat home theater in which I use 2 aura bass shakers under each,
powered by a 240w parts express plate amp. If mounted correctly (with a time delay if you feel the need)...this will augment your subs without bothering
the neighbors etc. I know a lot of people think this is gimmicky, but it really helps. I was skepitical at first, but I would say the shakers (in
my case) were the best investment I've ever made, considering the money spent.

http://www.amazon.com/Aura-AST-2B-4-Pro-Bass-Shaker/dp/B0002ZPTBI

http://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-SPA250-Subwoofer-Amplifier/dp/B0070Z81MW/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1350859228&sr=1-2&keywords=dayton+subwoofer+amp

Just an alternate suggestion......vardo
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Old 10-21-2012, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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You could use some bass shakers to help augment the bass. I have a 2 seat home theater in which I use 2 aura bass shakers under each,
powered by a 240w parts express plate amp. If mounted correctly (with a time delay if you feel the need)...this will augment your subs without bothering
the neighbors etc. I know a lot of people think this is gimmicky, but it really helps. I was skepitical at first, but I would say the shakers (in
my case) were the best investment I've ever made, considering the money spent.
http://www.amazon.com/Aura-AST-2B-4-Pro-Bass-Shaker/dp/B0002ZPTBI
http://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-SPA250-Subwoofer-Amplifier/dp/B0070Z81MW/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1350859228&sr=1-2&keywords=dayton+subwoofer+amp
Just an alternate suggestion......vardo

Funny you mentioned that. I have two Pro Shakers sitting at my father's house still from an old setup I had years ago. Maybe I'll reinstate them when we move to the new place.

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Old 10-22-2012, 06:14 AM
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It gets more and more ridiculous. Augment the bass in an apt. with a shaker LOL. Now that is a "common sense" way to avoid bothering the neighbors. It looks like "common sense" doesn't belong to this thread.

What is RUDE and INCONSIDERATE is to use a sub/shaker/large speaker in an apt. It does bother the neighbors even at low volume.

Enjoy your sub/speaker and shakers. I feel pity for your neighbors. I am glad I didn't have a neighbor like you when I was living in an apt.
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:29 PM
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Quote from CarloBadalamentii/ " A lot of people have turned to the tactile feedback of buttkickers and the like to get low frequency effects when bass was too much for the space."/

Mupi, I agree with most all of the things you have posted on this thread. Sound isolation is close to impossible. Go to a acoustic website (like Real Traps) and they
frequently get this question asked. There is no way short of pouring new concrete walls/floors.

Also I agree subdude(s) are bogus although some suggest it reduces internal vibrations....I would not know, my foundation is concrete and a subdude wouldn't
do squat.

So please explain how a tactile transducer wouldn't help in the OP's case if his system was turned down to a low volume and tactile transducers were used.


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Old 11-02-2012, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

It gets more and more ridiculous. Augment the bass in an apt. with a shaker LOL. Now that is a "common sense" way to avoid bothering the neighbors. It looks like "common sense" doesn't belong to this thread.
What is RUDE and INCONSIDERATE is to use a sub/shaker/large speaker in an apt. It does bother the neighbors even at low volume.
Enjoy your sub/speaker and shakers. I feel pity for your neighbors. I am glad I didn't have a neighbor like you when I was living in an apt.

You have ZERO clue as to what you speak about, plain and simple.

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Old 11-02-2012, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anamorphic View Post

You have ZERO clue as to what you speak about, plain and simple.

+1. Bass shakers certainly do augment the bass response. The amount varies, as I have the full-sized Buttkicker, which is much more powerful than the Auras, but to dismiss their ability tells me you've never experienced a properly done setup.

OP. If you have a receiver that has Audyssey, you should consider using the Dynamic EQ (Volume?) settings. If you set it to evening or midnight, it cuts the overall volume and dynamic range down, and makes dialogue clearer.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:14 PM
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++1 on TTs. Bass shakers and the like are awesome for apartments. "Period"... lol
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:57 PM
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dradius....they are also awesome for homes that have concrete floors covered by carpeting "Period".

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Anamorphic View Post

For one thing, there's absolutely no reason to come in here and say crap about my girlfriend. Second, there's absolutely no reason to be freaking RUDE and INCONSIDERATE! No one likes or wants a smart a$$, so stop while you're ahead.

I don't care who you are or how long you've been on the forum. You have no right to talk to other members the way you do, period.

And just so you know, it doesn't matter one bit what size subwoofer or loudspeaker you have. What matters is how you use the volume control. So with that in mind, I'll ignore any and all other WRONG comments you make.

Well, I'm all broken up about your bass-thumping "rights" (ode to Clint). You come off as mostly self-centered. Why should we care about your beloved girlfriend when she has no conscience about making that racket? We only know her as a noise irritant, which is how it goes with anonymous neighbors these days. You admit as much but pass it off as a mere eccentricity! Many people who claim they get "no complaints" in apartments are just lucky to have meek neighbors who assume they must put up with bump, bumP, buMP, BUMP whenever some selfish ingrate feels like entertaining themselves.

People who claim that floor padding gimmicks will solve subwoofer problems are deluded. The bass is projected in a 360 degree sphere with varying intensity, and it will get through almost any wall. The floor itself is just one aspect of transmission that might be controlled in unique circumstances. Do you think boom-car subwoofers project most of their racket through the car's tires meeting the road? Of course not. The sound waves pass through the car's frame into any air space they encounter, which can easily include a 100 yard radius. Why would a building be much different?

My view on subwoofers in apartments is tough luck, just live without them 24/7 until you can afford a house of some kind; except in rare cases where the walls are so thick and cement-laden that no bass can get through. If you need a bass fix, do it in your car away from residences. Even low level bass creates a chronic annoyance, like someone bouncing a basketball on your floor from a foot or so. I doubt you'd put up with that sort of belligerence, so why rationalize a subwoofer that you know others will hear one way or another? Especially against a background of ambient quiet at night, the relative volume of anything that sticks out will be like water torture.

Do some research on noise pollution, which has been described as a "modern plague." Man didn't evolve to deal with the electronic and mechanical noises that exist today (including the bass note from wind turbine blades passing the tower).

The core problem is the selfish culture of "I do what I want because I'm special" and a growing disregard for The Commons. People are an annoying, destructive species on many levels. The relative few who try to do the right thing get passed off as "complainers" by the soulless masses.
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Old 07-28-2013, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Anamorphic View Post

You have ZERO clue as to what you speak about, plain and simple.

"ZERO clue" as in nobody on the planet but you could possibly understand the nature of noise nuisances? Beware of those who speak in absolutes on any topic.
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Old 07-28-2013, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

It gets more and more ridiculous. Augment the bass in an apt. with a shaker LOL. Now that is a "common sense" way to avoid bothering the neighbors. It looks like "common sense" doesn't belong to this thread.

What is RUDE and INCONSIDERATE is to use a sub/shaker/large speaker in an apt. It does bother the neighbors even at low volume.

Enjoy your sub/speaker and shakers. I feel pity for your neighbors. I am glad I didn't have a neighbor like you when I was living in an apt.

Your points are very true. I see a lot of subwoofer questions where people won't admit that they can't do whatever pleases them in a multi-unit dwelling. They ought to be playing the Rolling Stones' "You Can't Always Get What You Want," which isn't a bass-heavy track anyhow.

Subwoofers are especially insidious because they don't sound like music at all when the bass is the only thing transmitted. In many cases the mids and highs don't make it through a wall but the bass easily does. It gives the perpetrator the lame excuse of saying to a landlord "but the volume was low!" without acknowledging felt frequencies at volumes that don't register on a typical dB scale. Even when they're told it's annoying they'll persist with that claim and you see their true colors.

Infrasonic aspects of "wind turbine syndrome" are similar to complaints about low-level bass. The subtleties of the irritant get lost in dry corporate definitions and inappropriate dB readings. For example, comparing a wind turbine to the decibel level of a refrigerator completely ignores the pulsing, insidious quality of turbine noise vs. the much "whiter" noise of a refrigerator (as long as it doesn't rattle).

I see this issue as more about the inherent selfishness of Man"kind" that any technical aspect of bass transmission. Look at the evolutionary context of sounds people are genetically supposed to hear vs. modern racket that grates on the nerves. If someone is annoyed by subwoofer bass, they have good reason to be. If one wants to be an adult, they'll relinquish a few perceived rights when they know others are affected. If they'd rather be a lout, they can pretend that others are supposed to "just deal with it." Too many people just try to test what they can get away with.
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Old 07-28-2013, 04:00 PM
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Join Date: May 2013
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When I use my bass shakers, I swear the wife is going to come in yelling to turn down the sub. Then I stand up and can't believe how quiet it is actually set. They are the best money I spent on my system yet. If you use the rubber feet on your seats/sofa/whatever, your neighbors won't hear a thing from them. I just used an old receiver to power them with a pair of FMOD 50Hz crossovers on the input lines which are split from the second LFE output on my main receiver. That gives me a remote to adjust them.
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