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Old 10-22-2012, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkQ7ke0eJ20&feature=relmfu
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
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do any of you own that subwoofer? if so do you like it?
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Old 10-26-2012, 06:51 AM
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1000 watts and 155 pounds may seem impressive, but what matters is Hz and dBs. In those respects the SVS is better than your average $500 sub, but nothing extraordinary.

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Old 10-26-2012, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

do any of you own that subwoofer? if so do you like it?


http://www.avsforum.com/t/889659/official-svs-ultra-13-thread
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Old 10-26-2012, 07:41 AM
 
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That video turns subwoofers into a drug and needs to be outlawed. eek.gif

Oh please, can I have more. biggrin.gif

How does a 3,500 cuft, with a 12' cathedral ceiling that opens into an entryway and kitchen area, (entryway/kitchen cubic footage not included in the living room figures) do with just one SVS, PB13-Ultra? At this time, our budget (my wife) won't accommodate two and personally, I'm a buy once and fer-tet-about-it type of guy. When I buy, I want to close this issue out and move onto other toys.

Would the PB13-Ultra blend with two smaller, older, grossly inferior, 12" subs?

Currently, I'm entertaining the purchase of two SVS, PB12-NSD's to later, be married to a Hsu, ULS-15.

As an alternative choice, I'm looking at adding a Hsu, ULS-15 to be married up to our existing Klipsch, SW12-II subs that are some eighteen years old and later upgrading to SVS, PB12-NSD's. The video skews my thinking to buying one SVS, PB13-ULD which will be married to our existing Klipsch subs and budget wise, will have to consider it a day. I'll even consider an Emotiva, XPA-5. coupled to addition of a pair of Klipsch, 12D-RW hooked up in stereo mode to the mains with a SVS, PB13-Ultra on the side. Originally, the overall amplifier/subwoofer upgrade budget was $2,400.00 and in my above, I see the budget being upped to $3,500.00 so due to the possible increase in budget, that's why I'm making that my budget limit for bass and amplifier improvements.

I'm pretty much sold on Emotiva amplifiers and for various reasons, Klipsch, SVS and Hsu as to sub manufacture choices. Can anybody add suggestions that work with my above?

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Old 10-26-2012, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

That video turns subwoofers into a drug and needs to be outlawed. eek.gif
Oh please, can I have more. biggrin.gif
How does a 3,500 cuft, with a 12' cathedral ceiling that opens into an entryway and kitchen area, (entryway/kitchen cubic footage not included in the living room figures) do with just one SVS, PB13-Ultra? At this time, our budget (my wife) won't accommodate two and personally, I'm a buy once and fer-tet-about-it type of guy. When I buy, I want to close this issue out and move onto other toys.

Save the few extra bucks and get a Seaton Submersive and be done with it biggrin.gif

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Old 10-26-2012, 08:34 AM
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mdf is cheap, 13'' driver is weak... at that price i would expect a 18''
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:42 AM
 
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How will one killer sub blend in a 3,500 cuft room with two lesser subs? I can budget for one killer sub and I understand, two subs are better than one.

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Old 10-26-2012, 08:46 AM
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At that price you can almost get a JTR Captivator 2400.... which will eat an Ultra13!!!

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Old 10-26-2012, 09:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rmb1080p View Post

At that price you can almost get a JTR Captivator 2400.... which will eat an Ultra13!!!

Thanks for the Captivator suggestion but considering I've increased my budget by 46%, I'm locking my budget increase down.

Any insight as to how a single large subwoofer would do in the room described, when coupled with the subs described? My choices are limited as I described so I'm asking for suggestions that work within the posted budget and combination constraints described.
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:22 AM
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How much was the budget? 2400$ or 3500$?

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Old 10-26-2012, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Any insight as to how a single large subwoofer would do in the room described, when coupled with the subs described? My choices are limited as I described so I'm asking for suggestions that work within the posted budget and combination constraints described.

I wouldn't suggest it. Because in a properly calibrated system the better sub will be held back by the limitations of the cheaper smaller less powerful sub. I would highly recommend dual identical subs for your situation. Or get a good capable sub and place it in a front corner where the bass will be reenforced and then get the Mid Bass Module from HSU and place that either next to or behind the seating postion.

But what is your actual budget???

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Old 10-26-2012, 10:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rmb1080p View Post

How much was the budget? 2400$ or 3500$?

$2,400.00 and I've increased it to $3,500.00 which allows for a killer sub with two smaller Klipsch subs hooked up in stereo and an Emotiva Amp.

The alternative is a medium killer Amp, two smaller killer subs and an Emotiva Amp.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:09 AM
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Get a Submersive or Cap.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

do any of you own that subwoofer? if so do you like it?

I own one, and to say that it delivers sufficient output for my tastes in my 2500 cubic foot room would be a bit of an understatement.

I recognized when I got it that it's not necessarily the most dB for the dollar, and certainly I'd agree with Bill Fitzmaurice that it is nothing terribly exotic like his Tuba HT. Still, for the money you get a well made, nicely finished subwoofer with a full 5 year warranty, top tier support, and performance, in terms of Hz and dB, that is nothing to sneeze at. Referring to Josh Ricci's "data-bass" CEA-2010 Max Burst, the PB13U in 16Hz mode, it ranks 5th on the list at 16Hz (only beaten by a couple iterations of a Danley tapped horn, a DIY tapped horn, and a monstrous 320 pound, 34.5 cubic foot ported project), and 9th at 20Hz. Not exactly a bad place to be in my book.

While I have only had the PB13 a relatively short time, I'm not spending any time ogling Captivators, Submersives, Danleys, etc and wondering what could be in only I had one of those subs, and I don't really expect that to change. As always, YMMV.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

I wouldn't suggest it. Because in a properly calibrated system the better sub will be held back by the limitations of the cheaper smaller less powerful sub. I would highly recommend dual identical subs for your situation. Or get a good capable sub and place it in a front corner where the bass will be reenforced and then get the Mid Bass Module from HSU and place that either next to or behind the seating postion.
But what is your actual budget???

$2,600.00 for subs. Our room furniture placement and budget won't accommodate a pair of SVS, PB13-Ultra's.

Room placement of the sub/subs is being limited by room aesthetics and to a certain extent, WAF; compromise. And if two smaller subs will hold back one killer sub, I'm limited to the two smaller subs as my focused is on both the 20Hz and the 60Hz - 120Hz area of the frequency response graphs. And placement is limited by the room as I've pushed the WAF with what I currently have. At this time and point, I'm seeing if I can find a compromise between the wife killing me in my sleep and getting the desired impact bass for home theater reproduction.

Based on your above, trying to marry a SVS, PB13-Ultra up with our current pair of subs is a no go. Our mains are older versions of today's Klipsch, RF7-II's so we're not in need of Mid Bass Modules from Hsu as we're good to 35Hz. No disrespect intended towards SVS, I don't see the SVS, PB12-Plus as a worthy upgrade over the PB12-NSD. And all the graphs and waterfall charts point me in the direction of SVS or Hsu as the main subwoofer show. Your comments steer me to a pair of Hsu, VTF-15H in Rosenut finish and even that may be limited out by their physical size not fitting into our room. To make them fit, I'd have to buy a new (shorter) entertainment credenza, or smaller great chairs that flank the main/subs, which would have the affect of increasing the subwoofer budget.

Currently I'm trying to find out if one killer sub can be married up with a pair of smaller subs and so far, the sad answer is no.

(Boo, hoo, hoo; inconsolably he weeps, openly showing his manly, man frustration. tongue.gif)

-
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

$2,600.00 for subs.
Room placement is being limited by room aesthetics. And if two smaller subs will hold back one killer sub, I'm limited to the two smaller subs as my focused is on both the 20Hz and the 60Hz - 120Hz area of the frequency response graphs. And placement is limited by the room as I've pushed the WAF with what I currently have. At this time and point, I'm seeing if I can find a compromise between the wife killing me in my sleep and getting the desired impact bass for home theater reproduction.
Based on your above, trying to marry a SVS, PB13-Ultra up with our current pair of subs is a no go. Our mains are older versions of today's Klipsch, RF7-II's so we're not in need of Mid Bass Modules from Hsu as we're good to 35Hz. No disrespect intended towards SVS, I don't see the SVS, PB12-Plus as a worthy upgrade over the PB12-NSD. And all the graphs and waterfall charts point me in the direction of SVS or Hsu as the main subwoofer show.
Currently I'm trying to find out if one killer sub can be married up with a pair of smaller subs and so far, the sad answer is no.
(Boo, hoo, hoo; inconsolably he weeps, openly showing his manly, man frustration. tongue.gif)
-

Dude, I attended the recent get-together hosted by Andrew (Gorilla83), and I have to tell you that bsoko2, Mike Duke, and other members who have recommended the Seaton Submersive know what they are talking about. I listened to the Submersive at the get-together and you can't go wrong with it. The Captivator is also very fine. Either the Submersive or the Captivator would be great smile.gif
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Can anybody add suggestions that work with my above?

I think a pair of FV15HPs with the 550 watt amplifier for $2374 shipped would be mighty tempting... They're also a bit narrower and not as deep as the PB13 if that helps any.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Dude, I attended the recent get-together hosted by Andrew (Gorilla83), and I have to tell you that bsoko2, Mike Duke, and other members who have recommended the Seaton Submersive know what they are talking about. I listened to the Submersive at the get-together and you can't go wrong with it. The Captivator is also very fine. Either the Submersive or the Captivator would be great smile.gif

I'm not challenging anybody's credentials. I am budget limited. And room aesthetics are limiting our choice (size) as I'm up against replacing furniture to make larger subs fit. Are the Submersives/Captivators fine in solo or are they only fine in pairs? Size wise, as to pairs, a pair of Hsu ULS-15's (18"x18"x18") seem to be the most our room can accommodate. As it seems that it's not a good idea to marry single killer subs up with a pair of smaller, inferior subs, that setup is out.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:51 AM
 
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I think a pair of FV15HPs with the 550 watt amplifier for $2374 shipped would be mighty tempting... They're also a bit narrower and not as deep as the PB13 if that helps any.

Thanks for the suggestion. I took the Rythmik off the list because I'm not partial to the right hand side of the FR graph; 90Hz - 120Hz dB drop. A flat graph means a lot to me as it means the higher frequencies aren't going be rolled over by the lower frequencies, mashing the mid-bass.

Based on everybody's ever so thoughtful efforts, I'm back to first base and a pair of SVS, PB12-NSD's as it seems a killer sub is not in the cards due to aesthetic room placement limitation due to furniture size and subwoofer size constraints due to where I can place the subs.

FWIW, the wife and I have had the WAF dust up with tears and the whole drama scene (I know I'm not the only one here who's been down that road) with the result being, her saying, okay, I'll do it for you but only because I love you. That means it's compromise time on my part as my wife is willing to accommodate my home theater needs but within conservative limitations that acknowledges her needs equally. Being a good spouse has it's compromises.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:53 AM
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A single Cap or Submersive is going to be pretty good!

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Old 10-26-2012, 10:56 AM
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I'm not challenging anybody's credentials.

I am. To be quite frank, the reason I nixed the Captivator and the Submersive off my list of prospects was due to a lack of objective measurements from guys like Ricci.

I mean, the PB13U has been run through the ringer by the guys at AV Talk, Ilkka, and Ricci. The FV15HP has been measured by Paul at AH and run through the ringer by Ricci. When you purchase these subs, you know exactly what performance you're buying, and for me at least, that's a comfort.

OTOH, what exactly does it say when Gene at AH says he's requested a Submersive from Mark three times and gotten no response? It doesn't really matter to me how well a sub does in a get together if the designer doesn't have enough apparent confidence to send it in for a real review.

Flame away.

Edit: For those that think I'm full of it with respect to my claims regarding Mark and Gene:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/906454-post34.html
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:00 AM
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I'm not going to flame but I will "Giggle"

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Old 10-26-2012, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Thanks for the suggestion. I took the Rythmik off the list because I'm not partial to the right hand side of the FR graph; 90Hz - 120Hz dB drop. A flat graph means a lot to me as it means the higher frequencies aren't going be rolled over by the lower frequencies, mashing the mid-bass.

I believe they may have corrected that:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP_specs.html
Quote:
New H600PEQ2 also provides an LFE mode that extends the upper end to 200hz as shown below.

Not 100% sure if it applies to the 550 watt special though. If it piques your curiosity though, it doesn't hurt to check with Brian.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:03 AM
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I'm not going to flame but I will "Giggle"

Giggle away then tongue.gif
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:18 PM
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Two properly eq'd subs of relatively close specs (and in the same room) sound quite similar. Only at the edge of output ability have I ever noticed any real difference from subs in the same price catagory, or even a little higher or lower priced than each other. I can't speak for anyone else, but I know most of my viewing sessions aren't treating my subs like they'd be treated at a get-together to test them.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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Old 10-26-2012, 12:30 PM
 
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Two properly eq'd subs of relatively close specs (and in the same room) sound quite similar. Only at the edge of output ability have I ever noticed any real difference from subs in the same price catagory, or even a little higher or lower priced than each other. I can't speak for anyone else, but I know most of my viewing sessions aren't treating my subs like they'd be treated at a get-together to test them.

FWIW, during action movies, I prefer to crank the volume control to 0dB - +5dB.

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Old 10-26-2012, 12:51 PM
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FWIW, during action movies, I prefer to crank the volume control to 0dB - +5dB.
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Is the volume calibrated (ie you watch at up to +5dB beyond reference level)?
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:55 PM
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FWIW, during action movies, I prefer to crank the volume control to 0dB - +5dB.
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On a calibrated system, with your size room, if you're listening at reference levels and above, youre gonna need some hefty fire power to keep things like distortion in check. Headroom also come to mind.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

I am. To be quite frank, the reason I nixed the Captivator and the Submersive off my list of prospects was due to a lack of objective measurements from guys like Ricci.
I mean, the PB13U has been run through the ringer by the guys at AV Talk, Ilkka, and Ricci. The FV15HP has been measured by Paul at AH and run through the ringer by Ricci. When you purchase these subs, you know exactly what performance you're buying, and for me at least, that's a comfort.
OTOH, what exactly does it say when Gene at AH says he's requested a Submersive from Mark three times and gotten no response? It doesn't really matter to me how well a sub does in a get together if the designer doesn't have enough apparent confidence to send it in for a real review.
Flame away.
Edit: For those that think I'm full of it with respect to my claims regarding Mark and Gene:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/906454-post34.html

While seeing Ricci test the Subm and Cap would be fantastic, there are plenty of these in the wild that have been measured and a GTG a few years ago where it was done in the same room. By any standard, while the PB13 is a strong performer, it simply can't keep up with the extension and output of the Subm and Cap.

What does it say that Seaton hasn't send AH a review sample? Rather than a big conspiracy, it could mean that he's got a steady stream of orders and doesn't want to donate one for review at this time while he fills customer requests (and makes some money). I find that a lot more likely than any lack of confidence in their products.
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