Looking for a very small but extremely good sub - $3,000 max budget - AVS Forum
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I'm looking for a very small sub with a VERY tight sound, XLR inputs and a super small footprint. I just have enough space for 1 - definitely not two

The subs I've been looking at so far are nice but a little too big for me.
HSU ULS-15s
SVS SB13-Ultra
Velodyne DD+10's
Velodyne DD+12's
JL F113-Gloss
JL F112 Gloss



I currently have a sunfire 10" but it just isn't very clean sounding. (I've replaced the cable with a nice Blue Jean's and put in a filter) I'm hoping XLR connectors might reduce some of the hum on my next sub.

My current environment - small living room.
P2 & P5 Anthem Amps
Denon AVP
Von Schweikert VR 4SR (with upgrade)
Oppo 103
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:57 PM
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^^^

sounds like a jl f113 would fit the bill... smile.gif

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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Old 10-23-2012, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
sounds like a jl f113 would fit the bill... smile.gif
Thanks I was looking at the JLs but I can't figure out what those inputs are. Can I get a standard XLR cable to work on those? Also they aren't any smaller in footprint than the other units I was considering. Actually they are even deeper than any of the others I was considering.
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:04 PM
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Hello,
I'm looking for a very small sub with a VERY tight sound, XLR inputs and a super small footprint.

Check out the Martin Logan, Depth i.
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Thanks I was looking at the JLs but I can't figure out what those inputs are. Can I get a standard XLR cable to work on those? Also they aren't any smaller in footprint than the other units I was considering. Actually they are even deeper than any of the others I was considering.

They're combo jacks so look a bit different - I just plugged a spare XLR cable into one of my Fathoms to confirm and it connected as normal.

From the JL F113 manual:

"The Fathom subwoofers feature individual left and right balanced input connections with XLR “combo” jacks. These special jacks accept either a three-pin male XLR connector or a “tip-ring-sleeve” (TRS) 1/4-inch (6.3 mm) connector for compatibility with a wide range of equipment."

The F113 has more output than the other subs on your list if you can/want to use it although the HSU digs a bit deeper on those few movie scenes with sub 16hz content. The F112 is a bit smaller if you really need to reduce the footprint of the sub further.

If you pursue the F113, make sure to call a few authorized dealers - there's a strange dichotomy amongst them where some won't budge on MSRP and others will negotiate to a fair discount.
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:33 PM
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Seaton Submersive? Maybe not as small, but so much more potent.
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:42 PM
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I was wondering how long it was gonna take someone to recommend something the OP wasn't looking for, lol.
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flafonta View Post

Seaton Submersive? Maybe not as small, but so much more potent.

as a submersive owner... not necessarily "so much more" potent... "more potent", yes.... do not underestimate that little box from jl... i've had the pleasure of listening/feeling them more than once, and they are quite impressive...

of course, the submersive dwarfs the jl when it comes to physical size,and it's not what one would call a "small footprint" sub... wink.gif

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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Old 10-23-2012, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Paradigm Studio SUB 12

Thanks I'm sure it has a great amp in it but it is too deep.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:59 PM
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The Hsu ULS's aren't that small, but they aren't huge either. From a sound quality perspective, two subs have some major advantages over a single sub. You get a flatter natural frequency response over a larger listening area, you don't have to worry about localization (as long as you don't place them right next to each other) and consequently you can have a higher crossover than the typical 80 hz if you want more mid bass, and also two woofers only have to do half the work of a single woofer but this can actually lessen distortion by a lot more than half respectively. For these reasons my vote would be for a Hsu dual drive (but I am also biased as a satisfied ULS dual drive owner).
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:10 AM
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I was looking for the same thing, for my living room. Ended up with the Velodyne DD10+, for what that's worth. It had the smallest footprint of anything I could find that could still put out a reasonable performance for my fairly-open room. Wife liked the finish options and general shape much better than any of the others, as well, so that helped.
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll be honest - usually I'm down to two or three items at most when I'm selecting speakers, TVs, amps, preamps.

I've figured a way to get slightly more space for my sub so my list has actually grown.

I'm really new to researching subs - so what is the big difference between a 13" or a 10" sub - is it how deep it goes or how fast it can respond or just how much you feel the bass?
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

I've figured a way to get slightly more space for my sub so my list has actually grown.

Since that is the case, you already listed the sub I would suggest. SVS SB13-Ultra

Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

so what is the big difference between a 13" or a 10" sub - is it how deep it goes or how fast it can respond or just how much you feel the bass?

I would try to answer that but I don't know enough to get technical about it. My answer to your question would be "Yes" smile.gif Without getting technical, here are my thoughts:
Normally a larger subwoofer will be able dig deeper than a smaller sub...
Normally smaller subs are more accurate, but with high quality subs I don't think that is always the case (though I do tend to stay away from 15" woofers for that exact reason)... Could someone please clarify this for Me and the OP? I could be 100% wrong about this opinion, and wouldn't be surprised if I am.
With a larger subwoofer, it moves more air so you will be able to feel it more. Between a 13 and a 10, made by the same manufacturer, overall the 13" is the better of the 2..

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Old 10-27-2012, 11:31 AM
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Rythmik E15 or F15HP
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:53 AM
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you might also look into the DIY section. for $3K you could have built some custom
monster and hide it.
heres are some interesting speakers; http://www.parts-express.com/brand/tc-sounds/150
with output to love. buy a separate 1000 watt amp to drive it and hide it in custom built ottoman.
there was one I viewed on the DIY section of a 18" downward firing ottoman. have a
local cabinet maker make it for you, and have it match your furniture.
just thought I would mention it.

my HT
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:15 PM
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If you are open to DIY...
are you looking for a very small sub in terms of its footprint alone? or does ur constraint include height?
If height is not an issue, you could do sumtyn like this but with two drivers one above the other...and end up with a really really good sub...using a driver from likes of peerless / Dayton Audio / TC Sounds
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the suggestions. So I don't go crazy and so I can actually move forward, I'm narrowing it down to the SVS SB13-Ultra and the Velodyne DD+12's
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Thanks for all the suggestions. So I don't go crazy and so I can actually move forward, I'm narrowing it down to the SVS SB13-Ultra and the Velodyne DD+12's

I had to get a sub to fit in with the wife... and I have about 3500 cubic feet and an overall pretty good system. Wife would be happiest with NO sub. So I had to work it a little. I didn't have cost as a primary object other than "wife psychology" so I started very small.

First I got a little def tech supercube from Best Buy. 10" cube, advertised good specs but I could definitely tell it was not going to meet my needs once I tried it. Kept it about two days,.

I explained to the wife that for only 4" more cubed (and another hundred bucks), I could get the lovely SB12NSD from SVS, and she went along. Another gloss black box, only a little bigger, and it went over ok. The step-up in footprint was very subtle, but in fact I ended up tucking it into a corner behind a chair anyway.

I think the SB-12NSD is awesome and if I had stopped there I could be content.

But what I did, when dear wifey wasn't looking, was trade in for a SB13 Ultra. 17" cube... BEAUTIFUL black oak veneer a better looking box imo than the gloss SB12. It fits in the same spot generally speaking... tucked away inconspicuously in a corner.

I've had the SB-13 Ultra for about 5 days. I'm in love... it fills my room just great. Is not localized in the least. Plays nice with network TV as well as Dolby Digital movies. Amazing for The Last Waltz, Hell Freezes Over, Rattle and Hum, Matrix, U571.

With SVS customer service reputation and bumper to bumper 5 year warranty... I just feel very secure in this purchase. It really hits VERY hard and clean, and looks lovely.

I don't know how good the Velo is... I'm sure it is wonderful. But for $1600 out the door... I think it is hard to go wrong with a single SB-13 Ultra.

I'm surprised this sub doesn't get much more love on the internet but I think it fits a small niche. Most people will prefer the ported box and a couple more inches isn't critical. More slam for the money I suppose. But if those last few inches of footprint really matter... I don't think you sacrifice much if anything, in practical real-world terms... with the SB-13 Ultra. It is a hell of a machine.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I appreciate all the suggestions I've gotten here. I've decided I will wait until January to make my decision as I might see something at CES to help convince me a bit further. I realize subs aren't released with new version nearly as often as other electronics but here are things I'd be thrilled to see.

SVS - SB13 Ultra - pretty happy as is although I'd love autocalibration as I'm not comfortable with REW and I don't have any mics or other items suggested for it.
F113 - it is an older design as far as I can tell - would like to see a newer calibration program and more control to tighten it.
DD+12's - I don't really like any of the finishes - would prefer piano black or deep cherry (the submersive have a wonderful range of finishes). I know that might seem trivial but since I have no place to hide my sub, I'd prefer it match my other equipment. While I like the Velodyne the finish and the warranty are my biggest issues.

Just my opinion of course but all calibration subs should have a USB in for easy firmware updates via thumbdrive or an RJ45 in for network upgrades.

Who knows maybe HSU or some other brand will have something I was unaware of.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:41 AM
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Could you go with a cylinder? A SVS PC13 ultra only takes up a 16.5 inch diameter of floor space but has goobs of output. Of course it is also much taller than the others

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
4 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials in slanted boxes (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
3 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials in Ported Boxes for LCR's
2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

Could you go with a cylinder? A SVS PC13 ultra only takes up a 16.5 inch diameter of floor space but has goobs of output. Of course it is also much taller than the others

I think that is a downward firing sub. I live on the second floor of an apartment and don't want to distress my downstairs neighbor too much. The neighbor to the side of me though can enjoy my sub as much as I've enjoyed his wretched 3 hours a day of piano practice.
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:25 PM
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I don't really think firing direction is going to change the amount of sound your neighbor hears.
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:27 PM
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^^^

agreed... the direction it fires really isn't relevant...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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Old 10-28-2012, 04:37 PM
 
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I don't really think firing direction is going to change the amount of sound your neighbor hears.

Of course it will. Having a emitter pointed at the floor is like an air hammer and like pounding on a rail, the sound waves will be propagated into the neighbors air space, just as a passing car's subwoofer transmits sound into one's living room as the car passes.
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:43 PM
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Of course it will. Having a emitter pointed at the floor is like an air hammer and like pounding on a rail, the sound waves will be propagated into the neighbors air space, just as a passing car's subwoofer transmits sound into one's living room as the car passes.
So the firing direction of the driver in that pass car changes whether you hear it or not? You only hear the cars that have drivers pointed at your house and the ones with drivers pointed across the street you don't?
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:57 PM
 
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So the firing direction of the driver in that pass car changes whether you hear it or not? You only hear the cars that have drivers pointed at your house and the ones with drivers pointed across the street you don't?

Sound is propagated in many different ways and we all know this. I'm simply giving examples that we're all familiar with. Either which way, yes, pointing a woofer at the floor is going exaggerate the transference of sound to the neighbor below and saying it won't is bad advice.

If someone is willing to compromise their neighborly relationship in this fashion, they're welcome to but it's not nice encouraging others to do this when in fact, they want to live peacefully with their neighbors. Just saying, pointing a subwoofer, in close proximity, directly at the one's floor, which so happens to be the ceiling of another, is not how one plays and gets along well with others.
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Old 10-28-2012, 05:01 PM
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< sigh >

beeman, please back out of this conversation before you cause another thread devolution due to your lack of knowledge.

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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Old 10-28-2012, 05:05 PM
 
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Bad advice is bad advice and calling one on bad advice is a good thing, not a bad thing. The only way this will devolve is if one insists that disturbing the neighbors below them, in this fashion, is a good thing. And the devolvement will be on them, not me.

I'm sure everybody loves living below the above unit with all subwoofers banging away; especially subwoofers pointing at their ceiling; the upper unit's floor.

-
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Old 10-28-2012, 05:12 PM
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knock knock...

"Hi, I was just wondering if you could, you know... turn down that stereo? It's 11PM. I have to go to work in the morning. Could you please dial it back for me? The thumping of your bass is sort of giving me a headache"

"Why sure... I want to be a good neighbor. But you know, instead of turning it down, how about if I just turn my subwoofer on its side so it is firing across my room instead of down into my floor. Would that do it for you? Guys on the internet said it will make a difference."

"Yes, super, wow, thanks. you're a considerate neighbor. thank you."
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