How to make a sub more punchy - HELP - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 12 Old 11-05-2012, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys,

After trying many room locations and crossover settings, I have not been pleased with my sub performance. I have friends with subs that cost less money than mine, and when I demo their setups, I get the nice feeling of being ‘hit in the chest’ by the sub sound. No matter how loud I turn mine up, I do not get that feeling. The louder I crank the sub, the more boomy it is and the more it shakes the house, but I don’t feel that punchiness.

A couple of questions I would really appreciate if people could answer for me!

1. Do different brands of receiver make a large difference in how much sound information is sent through the sub?? Or do all comparable price levels of receiver do about the same job of sending info to the sub? And then it comes down to crossover settings, etc.. (I have a denon AVR 2312).

2. I do not have a nice boxed-in room. I have a fairly small room, say 12x18ft, but there is a fairly large opening to a small office, and an opening to the stairs heading up to the main floor. How much does shape of room effect sub punchiness?

3. Carpet vs. hardwood floors? I have a carpeted room and I also have a silly theory that hardwood floors help reflect sub sound better.

Based on the answers above, perhaps my ears just don’t like the DSP 3100 paradigm sub. Love the monitor 7’s and centre, just can’t get the sub performance to a level where I like it.

Thanks for any input!
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post #2 of 12 Old 11-05-2012, 08:38 AM
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The answer lies in your room. When factoring the size of the room you MUST include all open areas to that room. So even though you think your room is pretty small its actually a large space. To get the feel of the bass you have to pressurize the room, that's why sealed rooms are better.

For your situation I recommend dual identical subs do the sub crawl and place one far field (maybe a front corner) and then place one near field within 4ft of the listening position and this should help even out the freq resp and give you better bass feeling.
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post #3 of 12 Old 11-05-2012, 08:41 AM
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Fair chance that your friends' subs are midbass focused, and what you are enjoying in their setups is unbalanced sound. Bass turned way up around 50 to 60 Hz, which iswhere the punch is. Also possible you're sitting dead center in the room, where the biggest null will normally be in bass.

Floors will make no real difference in bass reproduction, at least unless your carpet is a few of feet thick, which seems unlikely. Absorption needs to be, IIRC, 1/4 wavelength to be higly effective. at 100 Hz, wavelength is just over 11 feet. at 40 Hz, just over 28 feet.

There are lots of different views on the room. What is known for suer is that room dimensions affect the frequency response of the sub at your listening position. Because the wavelengths are so long, the propagate differently than higher frequencies. Some folks want to "pressurize" their rooms and a big open space is not conducive to that (the way, say a car is). Try moving the sub around so that you change how the room interactions come together at your listening position (but avoid dead center listening position).
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post #4 of 12 Old 11-05-2012, 08:53 AM
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The only thing that comes to mind is to place it in a corner. In my experience, it will give it a boost at the expense of sounding boomier. Obviously, getting a second sub or a bigger more powerful sub would probably help also.
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post #5 of 12 Old 11-05-2012, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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So it sounds like I can rule out the receiver having anything to do with my issue?? If it’s the room, that is good news as I will one day be moving. And if it’s my preference to a more midbass focused sub that is also good as I can always experiment with different subs. Really appreciate the feedback! THANKS!!
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post #6 of 12 Old 11-05-2012, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Flickhtguru, JHAz, KidHorn, or anyone else – would be HUGE if you could answer this for me:

When you refer to a “midbass” focused sub, is a given sub considered midbass simply because its low-end cutoff is higher than a “deep bass” sub? OR, can different subs actually Accent different frequency ranges? Example: Sub A and B both have frequency ranges starting at 35Hz, however Sub A emphasizes the 50-60Hz range a lot more than sub B. OR, does the receiver determine this focus?

Sorry – I’m a Noob!
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post #7 of 12 Old 11-05-2012, 10:24 AM
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For years I searched for the punch I wanted for music. I tried 2 different SVS subs and then tried combining my sub with a HSU MBM (mid bass module) and still I got exactly what you are describing no matter where I placed the subs is the room or what crossover I used, how hot I ran the subs, no matter where my seating postion was etc. Finally when I bought a JTR Captivator I found what I was looking for, and months later after switching to Seaton Submersives I get even more punch for music. I'm not saying that's the answer for you, but for me, in my room, a more powerful and better sub was the only solution. Even at lower volumes music has more punch to it, which makes no sense. You would think that the volume would have to be cranked up to appreciate the difference between a capable sub and a higher level sub but that hasn't been my experience.

However, if I were you I would buy an omnimic first so you can see what's going on in your room and maybe you won't have to spend big bucks like I did to get you what you want.
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post #8 of 12 Old 11-05-2012, 07:10 PM
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I have an older Velodyne F-1200 B subwoofer. I too wanted the sound to have more punch. What i did was build a riser to get the sub off the floor. It helps the sound waves from being driven into the carpet. I cut some OSB the size of the subwoofer base added 4 lag bolts 2 inches long. I spray painted it black to match the finish of the sub.and put it in the front corner of my HT system. It not only looks good it did help the low end sound and feel better.

LG 60LM7200, Pioneer SC-05, Panamax M4300-PM, Oppo BDP-103, Paridigm Monitor7's (fronts and center), Velodyne F-1200, Infinity surrounds.
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post #9 of 12 Old 11-06-2012, 05:27 AM
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^^^

the low end sound waves aren't effected by the carpet in the slightest...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #10 of 12 Old 11-06-2012, 05:50 AM
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Put the sub on your couch in your main listening position. Put on your favorite song and crawl around the room, where the bass sounds the best --- drop your sub right there.

Otherwise buy an omnimic or learn REW and see what frequency response you have in your listening position. My guess is that you are down 10 or 15 dB at 50-70hz range which is where the "punch" you describe lives.

That's an artifact of your room or your sub placement.

As carp says - failing trying different placements --- it's time to upgrade your subwoofer!

May I suggest an Epik Empire for your particular tastes if wanting to spend less than $1k. If you want to hit top shelf the JTR Captivator or Seaton Submersive are my favs.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #11 of 12 Old 11-06-2012, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow this is all really helpful. I did the crawl last night with a few different sub positions and yes there are huge dead zones in my room layout. If I can just go back to my last question – do certain subs put more emphasis on the 50-70hz range than others? Or is a 'midbass focused sub' simply one with a higher minimum frequency range, say 35-40hz instead of 24hz? And does receiver brand have anything to do with this question? =)
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post #12 of 12 Old 11-06-2012, 08:24 AM
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^^^

1) yes, although frequency response graphs will show this....
2) not necessarily... although some conclusions could be drawn there... most of the time though, lack of low end extension is a "cost" decision, not a "sq" decision...
3) nope. eq, otoh, does matter...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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