PB12-NSD VS. Hsu Vrf-3 mk4 for home theater - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 11-13-2012, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Have narrowed down my selection from a previous thread "subwoofer recommendation". It is between the PB12-NSD or the HSU Vrf-3 mk4. What are the pros and cons and what recommendation would you have for these subs. The application is for HT only large space of 18 x 30 that opens into another room with an 8 foot opening. I was originally looking to spend upward of 1300 but not sure if I need to. The 1300 us still in the budget but I'm thinking that eIther of these subs will produce more and sound cleaner than my current sub a paradigm ps1000. So let me know what you think. Thanks again and look forward to all the input
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post #2 of 9 Old 11-13-2012, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bstloukal1 View Post

Have narrowed down my selection from a previous thread "subwoofer recommendation". It is between the PB12-NSD or the HSU Vrf-3 mk4. What are the pros and cons and what recommendation would you have for these subs. The application is for HT only large space of 18 x 30 that opens into another room with an 8 foot opening. I was originally looking to spend upward of 1300 but not sure if I need to. The 1300 us still in the budget but I'm thinking that eIther of these subs will produce more and sound cleaner than my current sub a paradigm ps1000. So let me know what you think. Thanks again and look forward to all the input

If you have 8 foot ceilings, that's 4320 cubic feet you're trying to fill, not including the adjacent open space. Given your budget, you might look at something a little more robust, like some of the 15" offerings from Hsu and Power Sound Audio. The differences between the subs you specifically mention in your post are well documented. My space is less than 3000 cubic feet and I'm considering the Power Sound XV15.
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post #3 of 9 Old 11-13-2012, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah ceilings are 8 foot. The adjacent room is also large about 20 x 18. An archway separates them. Let me know if a 10 or 12" sub would be to small for a room like this. The paradigm ps1000 I have is a 10" does an ok job. Have gain on just under halfway. At that volume it almost seems as though the sub pushing hard and really exerting itself to its max. I am looking for something that doesn't seem to have to work as hard. I guess I'm a little under the assumption that the newer technology would help with this as the ps1000 is some years old. Thoughts?
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post #4 of 9 Old 11-13-2012, 05:07 PM
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Either of those subs will destroy your Paradigm sub, there is no question about that. As for the differences between them, the VTF3 is larger, likely louder and will play deeper. The PB12 has extremely low distortion and is well behaved due to the digital amplifier. It won't bottom out no matter how hard you push it. The VTF3 has different tuning configurations so you can shape its sound, whether you want deeper bass, or tighter bass, or punchier bass at mid 20 to 40 hz region. I think the PB12 has a better warranty, but both subs are very reliable so you are less likely to take advantage of a warranty with these than most other subs.
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post #5 of 9 Old 11-13-2012, 05:22 PM
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On your budget, you could get a PB12 NSD or VTF3 now, and if it isn't enough for you, get another. Or you could get one big sub like a Rythmik FV15, Hsu VTF15h, SVS PC12 Plus, or PSA XV30. Alternatively, you could get two Hsu VTF2s or Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Pluses now and stay under-budget while enjoying the benefits of a multi-sub system (better room response and no sub localization). The VTF2 and LFM Plus are pretty powerful subs themselves, probably only a couple DB under the VTF3's max output and a few hertz short of its extension. A system like that might be more appropriate for a room with a broad seating area.
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post #6 of 9 Old 11-13-2012, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok. Then let's go to HT performance. I listen to almost no music every thing would be for a HT application. I like low rumbling bass but also liked to get kicked in the chest. What do we think there. I have shied away from looking at sealed enclosure but is that something I should look at? Maybe I'm just looking for the best of both worlds or maybe that is something I can get with one of these subs? Not sure? I say this as my sub rumbles but does not really kick me in the chest it may give me a push bit the bass is not really tight at all
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post #7 of 9 Old 11-13-2012, 06:34 PM
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No, forget sealed subs. They don't start punching hard until you get into the more expensive ones like the Seaton Submersive ($2.5k), or high powered multiples like Hsu ULS 15 duals or SVS SB13Ultras. If you liked getting kicked in the chest, you will either need a very powerful sub, or a near-field sub which is a sub that is placed very close to the listening position. If you can't accommodate near-field placement, I would go for the single most powerful sub you can afford, given your criteria. If you can stretch your budget a bit, check out either the Rythmik FV15HP or Power Sound XV30. On the other hand, if you can accommodate a near-field sub, something to think about is getting a VTF3 and setting it in the corner in deep bass mode, and getting a Hsu MBM-12, and placing it behind your seat. Those two will come out to just over 1300 shipped and will unquestionably give you that punch in the chest feeling, it's what the MBM was designed to do.
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post #8 of 9 Old 11-13-2012, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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That is a great idea but think I will see what I can get out of 1 sub first. Did look at the seaton subs but unfortunately I can't justify it to myself to drop that on a sub at this time. The price isn't crazy but I feel I would have to upgrade some compenants to keep up with that type sub. I'm running all paradigm now. Mini monitors for fronts, cc370 for center and adp 170 for rears/surrounds. On another note I am always looking for a deal and have not seen the HSU or SVS come up used. Very often. I do see most other brands come up for sale. Any idea were were a good place to look for used is. If I could get a deal that way I could then maybe justify a 2 sub setup. Thoughts.
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post #9 of 9 Old 11-13-2012, 08:15 PM
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Audiogon will have these kinds of subs from time to time. Another place to check out is the audio classifieds here at Avsforum. Other audio message boards have classifieds too, like Audioholics.com and hometheatershack. If you are in a populated area, you can get lucky on craigslist at times, and ebay also usually has one or two of these kinds of subs going, but unfortunately they are in such demand that the auction price is frequently too close to the new price to make it worthwhile there.
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