Is a HSU VTF-15H too much for my smallish room? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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My room is about 1,400 cubic feet. Right now I'm running dual Bic America 12's but am starting to wonder if I should just keep them for good bass coverage in the room or try this one out. I get the feeling that when I'm watching some movies that I'm missing quite a bit of the bottom end and some output.

I'm still within my 30 day return window on one of the Bics.

Thanks

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
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post #2 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 03:27 PM
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It won't be too much, unless you only ever listen at low volumes. You will definitely be gaining lower frequency output, plus lots of headroom, and if you never really need to blast it, that will help its long term reliability. It also keep distortion much lower. I would have a ton of fun with a beast like that in a room that small. THX Reference levels, here we come!
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post #3 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds like you're giving me permission to pull the triiger on the order. Question is.........How will the wife feel about it....lol.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
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AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
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Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
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post #4 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

Sounds like you're giving me permission to pull the triiger on the order. Question is.........How will the wife feel about it....lol.

She will hate you. biggrin.gif

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post #5 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I think she does already......lol.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
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Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
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post #6 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 03:48 PM
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In a 1,400 cu.ft. room, you'd get plenty of performance (extension & output) from any one of these (including the VTF-15H):
- SVS PB12-NSD ($769, shipped)
- Outlaw LFM-1 Plus ($549 + shipping) or EX ($649 + shipping)
- HSU VTF-3 MK4 ($649 + shipping)
- PSA XV15 ($799, shipped)
- Epik Legend ($499 + shipping, or dual Legends for $899 + shipping) or Empire ($799 + shipping)
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post #7 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. I tend to like front firing subs better than downfiring ones. No reason I can think of besides being able to take the grill off of the front firing sub.

Looks like the best deals to be had are on the downfiring subs.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
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post #8 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

Thanks for the reply. I tend to like front firing subs better than downfiring ones. No reason I can think of besides being able to take the grill off of the front firing sub.
I'd say that's a pretty good reason. smile.gif

I really like my current subs, but they're downfiring and since I'm practically OCD about placement, I never tip them over just to enjoy those magnificent 18" drivers... frown.gif

wink.gif
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post #9 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Exactly. i like to see the drivers on all my speakers.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
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AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
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post #10 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

Exactly. i like to see the drivers on all my speakers.
Your ears don't care, subwoofers radiate omni-directionally. And downfiring/rearfiring subs have lower distortion, because that distortion is in the form of midrange harmonics that don't radiate omni-directionally.

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post #11 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 07:07 PM
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Your ears don't care ...
That's because his ears don't have eyes, so they can't see the drivers no matter which way they're oriented. smile.gif
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post #12 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

That's because his ears don't have eyes, so they can't see the drivers no matter which way they're oriented. smile.gif
I guess, but what always matters the most is how they sound.

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post #13 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 07:37 PM
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I guess, but what always matters the most is how they sound.
I agree.
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post #14 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow!!

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
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post #15 of 33 Old 11-17-2012, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I guess, but what always matters the most is how they sound.

Of course. But as much of a placebo as it can be, visual aesthetic DOES play a part in many peoples enjoyment of their systems. I get excited over unmeasurable, irrelevant to the audio frills sometimes, and If it enhances the experience on a personal basis, then do it I say, as long as it doesn't involve $1000 cables :P
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post #16 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

And downfiring/rearfiring subs have lower distortion, because that distortion is in the form of midrange harmonics that don't radiate omni-directionally.

Whoa! I don't know the science well enough to know whether this is a radical notion, but it sure sounds like one. It also sounds entirely plausible. Whoa.

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #17 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 05:44 AM
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Whoa! I don't know the science well enough to know whether this is a radical notion, but it sure sounds like one. It also sounds entirely plausible. Whoa.
Radical? Hardly, it's been a well known fact in the audio engineering community for about 80 years. Give or take.

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post #18 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 08:02 AM
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Bill, are you saying that those harmonics are above 80 hz and are therefore non-directional, and so are masked moreso on a downfiring woofer? If so, that sounds sensible to me. I'm not trying to be critical, I am just trying to understand what you are saying.
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post #19 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I almost feel sad packing up both my F12's. But on the bright side, I should be placing an order for an Hsu VTF3-Mk4 or SvS PB12-NSD tomorrow. I think i'm going to pass on the vTF-15H. I think that might be a little more than I need and certainly a lot more than I want to pay for a sub.

I still can't decide right now which. I know I like the look of a front firing sub more but to be honest, the PB12 isn't as handsome a sub as the F12 so that might now play as much of a role.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
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post #20 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I almost feel sad packing up both my F12's. But on the bright side, I should be placing an order for an Hsu VTF3-Mk4 or SvS PB12-NSD tomorrow. I think i'm going to pass on the vTF-15H. I think that might be a little more than I need and certainly a lot more than I want to pay for a sub.
I still can't decide right now which. I know I like the look of a front firing sub more but to be honest, the PB12 isn't as handsome a sub as the F12 so that might now play as much of a role.

Well If you go with the VTF-3/4 (I owned an VTF-3/3) it should be more than enough for a 1400 cu ft room. Mine was in 1800 cu ft room (enclosed)
and it had more than enough output, low output also. Remember the driver is side firing, so you might want to turn it sideways to view the driver. tongue.gif

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post #21 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Well If you go with the VTF-3/4 (I owned an VTF-3/3) it should be more than enough for a 1400 cu ft room. Mine was in 1800 cu ft room (enclosed)
and it had more than enough output, low output also. Remember the driver is side firing, so you might want to turn it sideways to view the driver. tongue.gif
vardo


You said owned.

Why don't you own it now? Did you upgrade to something else? Was there something you didn't like about it?

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
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post #22 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I almost feel sad packing up both my F12's. But on the bright side, I should be placing an order for an Hsu VTF3-Mk4 or SvS PB12-NSD tomorrow. I think i'm going to pass on the vTF-15H. I think that might be a little more than I need and certainly a lot more than I want to pay for a sub.
I still can't decide right now which. I know I like the look of a front firing sub more but to be honest, the PB12 isn't as handsome a sub as the F12 so that might now play as much of a role.

Might as well go for the VTF15H and if finance allows. Believe me, there is nothing more than you need in this forum cool.gif Think about it, your dual F12's are more than most people need outside of this forum. I know you like front firing but the PSA XV15 is such a great value.
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post #23 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 02:38 PM
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Prime, I had it (VTF-3/3), and many other HSU Subs as well, for many years. They are a terrific company, and a lot of people forget or don't
remember the buzz about the original VTF-1's, HUS's first "box" sub you could purchase online. Prior to that HSU's offerings were
cylindrical shaped subs (which were very good at the time, and still are). I live close by the headquarters of HSU so it was easy for
me to save on shipping. I started with two VTF-1's, and upgraded from there. Each time I "upgraded", I got a substantial
discount.

I've been in this hobby a long time (old guy, and my posts probably reflect that). Over 60 and still upgrading (or so I think). Just trying
different subs and I'm lucky I can do that. My back aches today, because yesterday I moved two Epik Legends into a stereo listening (they were my home theater subs)
area, and unpacked and placed dual Power Sound Audio XV-15's in my 1800 cu ft theater room. I like duals as they even out the sound.

So far the sound is awesome. With the XV-15's (at loud levels), they dig down to 15hz at almost 115db. Epiks couldn't do that.
(or IMO a VTF-3/3 for that matter). So just trying different things......the urge (at least for me) to upgrade never goes away. wink.gif.

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post #24 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I was about to order the VTF3-Mk4 when I heard my wife speaking in my head. She's always tell me not to cheap out when buying things because I always end up returning what I buy for what I wanted eventually anyhow. And she's right. I know I would have been looking at the MK4 wondering why I didn't go as big as I could. Even if it performed above my expectations, I would still have done it so.....

I ordered the VTF-15H.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
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post #25 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 04:35 PM
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Nice excuse, using your wife like that.

tongue.gif

Good choice.
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post #26 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 04:52 PM
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I agree....excellent choice.

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post #27 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Bill, are you saying that those harmonics are above 80 hz and are therefore non-directional, and so are masked moreso on a downfiring woofer?
The harmonics are directional, so they're attenuated when they have to go around corners. Below 80Hz is omni-directional, so there's no attenuation, no matter which way the driver faces. But the vast majority of users aren't aware of this, so front firing dominates the marketplace.

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post #28 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm of course a novice at this compared to you guys but I think front firing subs dominate because they provide that immediate satisfaction like your other speakers that have removable grills. You get to see what's going on and it provides a different look to your home theater. I really don't think it has anything to do with anything technical.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
Microsoft Xbox One
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post #29 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I'm of course a novice at this compared to you guys but I think front firing subs dominate because they provide that immediate satisfaction like your other speakers that have removable grills. You get to see what's going on and it provides a different look to your home theater. I really don't think it has anything to do with anything technical.
You're correct, it's mainly based on looks. When the average consumer looks at a sub and doesn't see a cone they think they won't hear the sound it makes the way that they should. That's because they think that speakers project sound the same way light bulbs project light. They don't.

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post #30 of 33 Old 11-18-2012, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I know.

I had a Klipsch sw450 as my only sub in my home theater for the last 3 years or so. It is a down firing sub. Every time I looked at the thing, all I saw was a plain black box. Nothing exciting at all.

When. Got the itch to go in another direction with my home theater, I bought two Bic America F12's. Gorgeous subs in my opinion. I always left the grills off of them because I really liked that look. Did it make them work better...of course not but my home theater looked the way I wanted it to look.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
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