New SVS SB1000 & PB1000 Subwoofers!! - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 05:23 AM
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hey guys, i am looking forward to buy a PB-1000. i am in the process of collecting the money (60% there :-) )

i am trying all this time to find a professional review about this sub, but i can find nothing. people say that it is a new sub, but it is not anymore. few months old already.
i know that svs is having a review contest, but we have no news until now. isn't that strange? i am also trying to find a few pictures from users, so that i can see how it really looks in a home theater space, i have managed to find only one! :-)

the most details i have read about it, is from JimWilson in this topic. I am probably going to buy it either way, but i would like to have some opinions on this sub. Is it really good? How is the quality? Can you feel the vibrations? Will it fill my HT room which is 6mx12mx2.10m(Height)? (To your information my sofa is in the middle of the room, and the sub will be 2-2.5m away from the sofa at the left side).

Another thing that annoys me is the price, as it was mentioned before. It is so unfair from my view. But maybe fair from SVS view. 500$ for USA which is much cheaper from Europe, and UK is the most expensive. Even though UK customers can buy it from Europe, and it will be cheaper for them. The other thing that annoys me is the shipping costs. USA gets free delivery. SVS has a branch in italy too from what i understand and know www.svsound.it. They should give free delivery too in countries near them, like Greece. (Not just italy). I have checked for the shipping costs and it goes near 70 euros.
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post #272 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtCocain View Post

You can get it for 500 EUR from some European sites + shipping costs. Maybe worth investigating smile.gif

I wonder if I pay by cheque and put $500 if they'll be happy!
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I have checked for the shipping costs and it goes near 70 euros.

500 Euro in pounds is around £440, plus 70euro/£60 shipping and it totals up to pretty much £500. :/

I was thinking of buying from here;
http://www.audiologica.co.uk/svs/svs_pb1000.html

I emailed this site ( http://www.hifix.co.uk/sub-woofers/svs/pb12-nsd.html ) since they stock SVS, but listed no PB1000, and he said they have them, you can buy them over the phone, and that they'll be on their website by next week.

Thing is, with £499 across the board, whats to make me choose one company over another if everywhere is the same price. Maybe I should send an email and tell them to include a packet of crisps or some haribo's.
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post #273 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post

i am trying all this time to find a professional review about this sub, but i can find nothing. people say that it is a new sub, but it is not anymore. few months old already.

i know that svs is having a review contest, but we have no news until now. isn't that strange? i am also trying to find a few pictures from users, so that i can see how it really looks in a home theater space, i have managed to find only one! :-)

It's actually not that uncommon for it to take a while before reviews start showing up...

You have to arrange to get a unit in the first place, which isn't the same process for every company. Thankfully I went through Ed Mullen, who connected me directly to the PR firm SVS uses. That expedited the process. Of course, shipping takes a week. Add another week in my case because I didn't know SVS was about to release any new products, so it took some time to make the initial contact and start working out the details. Realistically, it can be a month -- easily -- before any of us get one.

None of the reviewers I know do this full time either - we have day jobs and do the reviews in our spare time. Add to that the fact we often have more then one thing to review. For me I generally take them in a first-come-first-served basis, so I often have something sitting here a month or more waiting to be reviewed. Taken in that context it's easy to see why reviews will usually trail a product launch by weeks, or even months.

That being said... due to the amount of interest these new SVS subs have garnered I decided to alter my normal schedule. I'm current working on a review, and after that had a different one lined up. However, I'm going to move the PB1000 into it's place instead, so I'll be able to publish it a few weeks before I had initially planned. Seems like that's the only way I'll be able to stop the flood of PM's and emails I'm getting about the PB1000. wink.gif

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Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post

the most details i have read about it, is from JimWilson in this topic. I am probably going to buy it either way, but i would like to have some opinions on this sub. Is it really good? How is the quality? Can you feel the vibrations? Will it fill my HT room which is 6mx12mx2.10m(Height)? (To your information my sofa is in the middle of the room, and the sub will be 2-2.5m away from the sofa at the left side).

Unless my conversion is way off that means your room is approximately 5500 cubic feet. If so I personally don't think a single PB1000 is going to work all that well. It seems to be pretty powerful, but not that powerful. I think a pair of them is the least you should consider for that much space.

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post #274 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 06:22 AM
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Hey Jim, thanks for your reply

I can understand the time a review needs. I just find it strange that no-one until now was able to even say a few words about it. smile.gif

I appreciate the fact that you are going to test the sub sooner than you had expected. I will not buy that sub until i read your review. I am not going to consider any comments on the Tron movie, since everyone agrees that it sucks on some parts. I would like you to test 3 movies IF it is possible for you.

1) Avengers at the beginning where the ground drops into the earth, and at the point where Thor hits Captain's shield when they first meet
2) Underworld awakening where the big wolf first appears and he is walking behind the curtains
3) Battleship - when i saw that movie at the cinema, i could feel the subs working overtime, but i didn't like their sound. Just the vibrations they were giving

As for my room, i think i am the only one who doesn't appreciate the space i have, enough smile.gif

i can pm you a picture if you want so that you can understand the space. my room may be 12x6, but i am using half of it as my home theater, so it is like 6x6. Yes i understand that an open space is an open space. i also have a simple z5500 logitech sub which i currently use, and it is absolutely no good for my space. I am going to keep using it after i get the PB-1000 since my AV is 7.2. That way i will have 2 subs trying to fill the space. Yes i know - HOPE that the z5500 will be like a useless sub comparing to the PB-1000, but i believe-hope that it will help a bit.

Space and money is limited, so i cannot consider to buy a second PB-1000 or have space to place it.

Thanks for your reply
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post #275 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post

I appreciate the fact that you are going to test the sub sooner than you had expected. I will not buy that sub until i read your review. I am not going to consider any comments on the Tron movie, since everyone agrees that it sucks on some parts. I would like you to test 3 movies IF it is possible for you.

Sure, I do requests now. But it will cost you big $$$... wink.gif

Unless a sub I'm testing is extremely detailed I'm going to take Tron out of my arsenal. I thought it was just me, but between what's been posted and the PM's I'm getting it seems as though others feel like I do.

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Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post

1) Avengers at the beginning where the ground drops into the earth, and at the point where Thor hits Captain's shield when they first meet
2) Underworld awakening where the big wolf first appears and he is walking behind the curtains
3) Battleship - when i saw that movie at the cinema, i could feel the subs working overtime, but i didn't like their sound. Just the vibrations they were giving

I have Underworld Awakening, but not the other two. UA has started to be more of a testing staple for me, because there are a few scenes that have brutal LFE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post

i can pm you a picture if you want so that you can understand the space. my room may be 12x6, but i am using half of it as my home theater, so it is like 6x6. Yes i understand that an open space is an open space. i also have a simple z5500 logitech sub which i currently use, and it is absolutely no good for my space. I am going to keep using it after i get the PB-1000 since my AV is 7.2. That way i will have 2 subs trying to fill the space. Yes i know - HOPE that the z5500 will be like a useless sub comparing to the PB-1000, but i believe-hope that it will help a bit.

You can post your picture here as well. Ed Mullen from SVS is active in this thread, so he may be able to provide some insight the rest of us aren't able to.

I would suggest you don't try using the PB1000 and z5500 sub at the same time. Trying to get them to blend will probably be a nightmare, and even if you do get them balanced I suspect the z5500 sub would do nothing more then make unpleasant noises compared to the PB1000. That would be like owning a German Shepard and a poodle. Why bother? tongue.gif

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post #276 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck 

I know that clip and on my (much derided) ChaseHT subs it rocks! The engines crackle and rumble, with no "droning" to be heard.


I could be wrong here, as I do not own this disc and cannot verify. But I suspect that the culprit could possibly be differences from one lot of discs to another. I have a blu-ray disc which has terribly muffled low frequency booming on it which cannot be heard on a friend's copy of the same movie. And we've played both discs on the same systems. The unpleasant artifact is audible on my disc whether played on my system or his. And his disc sounds fine, regardless of which system it's played on. Odd, I know. But there it is.
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post #277 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Sure, I do requests now. But it will cost you big $$$... wink.gif

Since you only have one movie, i request a discount on that smile.gif
Quote:
I would suggest you don't try using the PB1000 and z5500 sub at the same time. Trying to get them to blend will probably be a nightmare, and even if you do get them balanced I suspect the z5500 sub would do nothing more then make unpleasant noises compared to the PB1000. That would be like owning a German Shepard and a poodle. Why bother? tongue.gif

In my mind i cannot understand how 2 subs can harm a space (2 different subs). i suppose it is the way they play the sound at some specific Hz. One can be more tight and precise while the other one can just boom the room. In the end, i can only test them with my ear smile.gif

i have no idea how to balance a sub, since this one will be my first real sub. My Onkyo 609 has 2EQ calibration which means that the sub is not included. Too bad frown.gif.
I have read as much as i can about the crossover position i need to have, the phase, and the volume. But calibrating a sub is a nightmare for more capable people on the sub subject than me. so....

as for the room here are 2 drawings....

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12119047/room2.png
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12119047/room1.png
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post #278 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 02:00 PM
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Here is the room for TeDeV, Are you greek by the way? wink.gif






I don't think one PB1000 will be enough. If you can wait and save for two then it be better.

Athanasios
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post #279 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 02:05 PM
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Yes i am. So are you, from what i see? smile.gif

Really the PB-1000 is absolutely my budget limit. as i mentioned before, i don't have the money or the space in there to fit 2xPB-1000.
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post #280 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 02:20 PM
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Well I guess get one for now and if you feel you have room or can save more for a second Id do that. As Jim states matching two different subs
that have very very different performance abilities would not be easy or for that matter a good thing. It might make things worse sounding
than just a single PB1000.

I'm actually waiting for a friend to stop by so I can use his Van to pic up my Dual PB1000's.

Athanasios
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post #281 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 02:49 PM
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so your space is bigger or smaller than mine?
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post #282 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Sure, I do requests now. But it will cost you big $$$... wink.gif

Unless a sub I'm testing is extremely detailed I'm going to take Tron out of my arsenal. I thought it was just me, but between what's been posted and the PM's I'm getting it seems as though others feel like I do.
I have Underworld Awakening, but not the other two. UA has started to be more of a testing staple for me, because there are a few scenes that have brutal LFE.
You can post your picture here as well. Ed Mullen from SVS is active in this thread, so he may be able to provide some insight the rest of us aren't able to.

I would suggest you don't try using the PB1000 and z5500 sub at the same time. Trying to get them to blend will probably be a nightmare, and even if you do get them balanced I suspect the z5500 sub would do nothing more then make unpleasant noises compared to the PB1000. That would be like owning a German Shepard and a poodle. Why bother? tongue.gif

+1

Considering that the Logitech sub is ported and most likely tuned super high all it will do is cancel out some the low/mid bass of the SVS which will be able to play MUCH deeper with more authorty.
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post #283 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 06:13 PM
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Well Got my Subs!!!! Only Hooked up one so far, sounds nice. Have not calibrated it yet. I want to think about how I want to hook it up in my set up.

I have a Three Channel Adcom 5503 on the floor up front and I have the sub out from my Adcom 830 there on the front wall that went to my
Velodyne VA1210 . So I am deciding if I should use the stereo line level ins , feeding them with the L and R that go into the 5503 and then
going out back to the amp( splitting the LR of course to go to both subs). I need to find out if the line outs cross over at the setting on the sub.

Or if I should use the sub out from the 830 and split it to the subs.

I think the latter is best.

Well here are some pics.












The other sub is still in the box, I got caught up watching Star wars a new hope for a bit. wink.gif

Nashou
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post #284 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 07:59 PM
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I know Jim has seen my posts in the "Budget" section but, thankfully, found this thread today. Most of the better budget type subs I saw either are too big or ported to the back causing "issues". Either the PB1000 or the SV1000 will solve both size and performance issues for me. My family room is basically 12'X12' with bay window glass on one side and a 12'x12' kitchen on the other all with 8' ceilings. I have really been thrashing around deciding what I would stick with starting with the new Denon 1713 receiver. Right now I have Polk Audio TL250s 5.0 package and an old PSW108 and I am not happy at all.

So I thought I would move my old Paradigm 5SEMK3 towers in with a Paradigm cc-170 and also now have 4 Paradigm Titan v3s to play with too. I can use these pieces for a while and uprade later.

Then got an got an e-mail about the new SVS offerings and found my way here. No porting or front porting is a preferenece and this room is mostly TV, HT and some music for 2. Good to know I can order in Canada but I am 10 minutes from the border and have a US shipping address so if these are made in the USA an order direct from SVS would work for avoiding customs duties.

Very loud is not our thing anymore and I know the wife would like the smaller unit but which one for this room layout? And does it really make sense to start with a sub for an anchor in this room and then look for the rest over time?
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post #285 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 09:57 PM
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I am thinking of getting a pair of SB-1000 to go with the front loudspeakers to get more dynamic. Planning to connect it via receiver's front pre-out. Then SB'S High Pass out to stereo power amplifier to drive the front loudspeakers. As for crossover, I will try which is the most suitable frequency. My old PB13-Ultra will still do the LFE task. Any better idea? smile.gif

Bass, please. Shaken, not stirred.
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post #286 of 1238 Old 01-16-2013, 11:29 PM
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I noticed that SonicBoomAudio shows a 3 Year Unconditional Warranty while SVS shows a 5 Year. The product is the same so, is there a reason for that?
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post #287 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post

+1

Considering that the Logitech sub is ported and most likely tuned super high all it will do is cancel out some the low/mid bass of the SVS which will be able to play MUCH deeper with more authorty.

Ok then since you all agree, i will take the z5500 out of my setup. I will use it just for my computer audio. Too bad frown.gif

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Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

Well Got my Subs!!!! Only Hooked up one so far, sounds nice. Have not calibrated it yet. I want to think about how I want to hook it up in my set up.

The other sub is still in the box, I got caught up watching Star wars a new hope for a bit. wink.gif

Nashou

Man i am sooo jealous smile.gif. Congrats on your new subs. Now i understand why you can fit 2x PB-1000 in your room. Can you tell me your room dimensions? And please let me know how 1 SUB performs in there. Then let us know, how 2 subs are like, so that i can cry smile.gif. By the way, when you say that you have to calibrate the sub, what are you going to do? i am very interested in that

Thanks,
Ted
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post #288 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGCanuck View Post

I know Jim has seen my posts in the "Budget" section but, thankfully, found this thread today. Most of the better budget type subs I saw either are too big or ported to the back causing "issues". Either the PB1000 or the SV1000 will solve both size and performance issues for me. My family room is basically 12'X12' with bay window glass on one side and a 12'x12' kitchen on the other all with 8' ceilings. I have really been thrashing around deciding what I would stick with starting with the new Denon 1713 receiver. Right now I have Polk Audio TL250s 5.0 package and an old PSW108 and I am not happy at all.

For a 12'x12' room either would be fine, but it's that other 12'x12' area that causes me some concern.

A subwoofer "sees" the entire volume of space, not just the area designated for HT. If combined the square footage is 12'x24' then I would lean towards the PB1000 instead. You'll probably need the extra output to compensate for that much space.

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post #289 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 09:17 AM
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I called both SVS in the US and SonicBoomAudio in Canada. SonicBoom says the warranty is not 3 years as shown on their website, it is 5 years and all other conditions are the same as SVS. As posted before, they really need someone to fix their website. SonicBoomAudio does NOT provide free shipping and here on the west coast they quoted $48. Huh?

Thanks again Jim. As before the compromise between the PB-1000 and (or other options) the SV1000 may be dimensions and other restrictions in the room. I never refer to the wife as a restriction:D
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post #290 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 09:22 AM
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Sweet, I found http://www.audiologica.co.uk/svs/svs_pb1000.html which has free delivery to the UK, ordered a PB1000. Since my room is less than 500 cubic feet, it's gonna be awesome! ( I hope)
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post #291 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 09:28 AM
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I never refer to the wife as a restriction:D

Perhaps hindrance? Obstruction? Impediment even? biggrin.gif

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post #292 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 09:50 AM
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Wives have an Ω rating? Do they bother listing it on their specs?
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post #293 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 09:59 AM
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do you guys thing that in the case of PB-1000 i would need a MiniDSP? Has anyone ever tried it? i have absolutely no idea about configuration on this subject. i have read a few pages about it. still trying to figure out why someone would need that. i need a very simple example smile.gif. I see people posting diagrams with Hz and dB, and peeks. and from what i understand they are trying to reduce those peeks and make the sound flat through all the Hz up to 80 and so on. There should be an easier solution to calibrating subs smile.gif. I am reading and reading and reading forums and opinions for days. At least all of them agree to that, there is not a specific guide to tell u, do that and that for your sub, because every room is different.

But in the end, someone should know.... "You bought a sub... congrats... now here are 20 ways to make your sub sound better. Some are very easy, some are very professional level. Some are expensive, some are cheap"
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post #294 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 10:11 AM
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I'm hoping the MultiEQ XT that comes with the AVR I've ordered is gonna do it's thing. It didn't effect my choice of AVR, but I hear Ypao doesn't work on subs.
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post #295 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 10:12 AM
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Assuming the rest of your system is already in place:
Step 1: Connect the sub to your AVR.
Step 2: Do a sub crawl to determine which 1-3 locations provide the best output at the listening position. Place the sub in the location which offers the best compromise between output and real life (aesthetics, WAF, etc.)
Step 3: Run your AVR's auto-calibration program.
Step 4: Go into the AVR's speaker set-up menu and tweak channel levels by ear.
Step 5: Sit back and enjoy.

Beyond that, you can:
- Purchase an SPL meter to measure - and, optionally, to chart - the frequency response (FR) of your speakers and sub.
- Purchase a device such as a Dayton OmniMic - or purchase a microphone and use freeware like REW - to view various elements (levels, EQ, decay, etc.) of your system's response on a laptop in real-time. If you have additional equalization equipement - see next bullet - this real-time visualization is very helpful.
- Puchase an EQ device such as a miniDSP, and peform additional calibration tweaks.
- Et cetera.
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post #296 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 11:28 AM
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hey eljay,

1) my Onkyo 609 has 2EQ only unfortunately, so it doesn't help with the sub.
2) the position of the sub is pretty much specific (space issues) . I can only have it to my left, and i can only move it just a bit further or closer to me.
3) My speakers are calibrated with automatic calibration - cheap spl meter - and my ears. i am glad with the result (to my ears) . Just not satisfied at all with my current sub.

as for the REW, it is still kinda hard for me to understand it, but what i do understand is that REW on its own can not do something. It just shows u the problems.

my question was (in case i was not clear smile.gif ), what would someone gain from using a device such as MiniDSP for his sub.

Thanks again
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post #297 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 11:51 AM
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Hi, TeDeV. I wasn't sure what you had or hadn't done to calibrate your system, and since I misread at least part of your post as a "gripe" against the complications of calibration, my reply was intended more as an example of how little you should do vs. how much you could do. My apologies for the confusion.

Regarding the question "what would someone gain from using a device such as MiniDSP for his sub", my answer would be "the ability to EQ the sub for a flatter in-room response.
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post #298 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 12:02 PM
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no problem my friend. i am curious on the subject. maybe i said it with the wrong way smile.gif

so i suppose that our goal when we EQ a sub (or a speaker) is to have a flat response. got that. but how do we achieve this? what do we 'change - configure' in order to achieve that. i have read something about octave, but that made me even more confused.

i don't know if i am going off-topic, but i am guessing that a lot of people would be interested in that subject, while we are waiting for the PB-1000 reviews :P
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post #299 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 12:28 PM
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Here's my non-technical reply... smile.gif

A flat response (see a graph of any SVS sub on their website) means that between a range of frequencies - say, 20Hz to 150Hz - a sub plays a certain level of output with a variance of no more than 3dB above or 3dB below (+/-3dB) that level. IOW, output remains consistent across the frequency range. This is a good thing.

In-room response, because of interactions with boundaries and other objects, is unlikely to be flat: There will be peaks and nulls (the opposite of peaks) at one or more frequencies. Room EQ software - which you get with Audyssey or miniDSP - manipulates (to the extent that it can) the signal that is sent to the sub to compensate for those peaks and nulls. It tries to "flatten" the FR curve.
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post #300 of 1238 Old 01-17-2013, 12:47 PM
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ok thanks a lot, i appreciate your response. in this case, can i connect the microphone i got with my Onkyo receiver to my computer, and then run the REW app? If i see peeks and nulls (a lot) then i should consider buying the MiniDSP.

a few more questions
1) a peak means that the sub sounds higher than it should and null means that you can't hear as much as you should?
2) what the dsp changes in order to achieve that result? (flat response) it lowers / higher the db when it detects sounds at specific frequencies? for example when it sees that is used to be peaks there, it lowers the db of the sound coming in, and when it detectes a sound at a null frequency, it adds more db?

Thanks again for the info
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