New SVS SB1000 & PB1000 Subwoofers!! - Page 37 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > New SVS SB1000 & PB1000 Subwoofers!!
Nikwasi's Avatar Nikwasi 07:51 PM 03-15-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by zibanez View Post

HI guys , I'm planning to buy a new sub. Between pb 1000 & sb 1000, Which sub gives more impact, especially for movie? my listening room is 10 x 13
Thanks

 

The PB-1000 will have greater output. Currently I have a PB-1000 and an SB-2000, and I would say the ported 1000 has as much (or more) punch as the sealed 2000. I do love the tight sound of the SB with music, but for movies I would recommend the PB-1000 over the SB-1000.



zibanez's Avatar zibanez 05:42 AM 03-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikwasi View Post

The PB-1000 will have greater output. Currently I have a PB-1000 and an SB-2000, and I would say the ported 1000 has as much (or more) punch as the sealed 2000. I do love the tight sound of the SB with music, but for movies I would recommend the PB-1000 over the SB-1000.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Ported subs generally have higher output around the port tune, which is where you get a lot of impact from movies.  If you were very limited on space, or having big trouble with WAF, the sealed sub would probably still work ok in your room, but the ported will still hit harder for movies.

ok, i'll go for pb1000. I thought sb 2000 will give more impact.
After calculating shipping cost , i must start saving more money.biggrin.gif
Thanks
highd3f's Avatar highd3f 01:26 PM 03-17-2014
Today was a good day. My PB1000 finally arrived.

SVS PB1000

Once I unpacked it from multiple boxes (well done SVS), plugged it into the power outlet and receiver, did the crawl just to verify previous sub position, this thing just slapped me right in the face. My previous sub used to just futilely rumble. I had it for 6 years and I remember my first impressions thinking how that was true cinema sound. What a joke. I can only imagine how more expensive SVS subs sound.

zibanez, I'm certain you will not regret your choice. We have similar room size. PB1000 goes deep, gives you a powerful punch and shakes everything in its way. Yet again, I have to re-watch all my favorite movies. But I guess that's the fun part. And the biggest reward is a big smile on your face when your room gets bombarded with extreme bass. I say bring it on.
TheLaw612's Avatar TheLaw612 01:55 PM 03-17-2014
I finally set up my dual PB1000s this weekend... They sound amazing. I'm coming from another company's 15 inch sub so I was worried that they wouldn't hold up but man they are perfect. Now I know why people always recommend dual subs. I couldn't be any happier.
emueyes's Avatar emueyes 07:24 PM 03-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by highd3f View Post

The only way I get sub working in Pure Direct on my Yamaha RX-A1020 is by playing multichannel content. Other stereo sources only go through front L & R, no matter the setting in Straight mode.

I have a Denon AVR but I imagine the principal is the same. In Pure Direct mode the AVR will play stereo source as stereo, and nothing will come from the centre or sub. On the Denon's remote there are shortcuts for what Denon calls Movie, Game etc, all of which turn on Dolby ProLogic II, and it says that on the front panel. Note I don't actually have a sub, yet, but it would work the same way as the centre I guess. Depending on what source you are using, you may be able to get it to create surround / multichannel sound. If using a computer, and running foobar for example an appropriate addon would be the dsp_surround module. http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=52235
highd3f's Avatar highd3f 08:29 AM 03-18-2014
When using Pure Direct you can't apply surround decoders you mentioned. Although, if you use software such as Foobar or J River you can of course change the output from stereo sources to virtual multichannel. Software will upmix that content and send it packaged in Dolby Digital or DTS signal to your receiver. Sound cards such as Sound Blaster Z can also do that. Doing that, however, loses the purpose of Pure Direct mode. So, if you want your sub, center and surround channels when listening to music, it's easier to use just use surround decoders on your receiver, or better yet 7ch stereo which won't filter the lower frequencies so much like Pro Logic or Neo 6 or X. I prefer Straight for stereo music though.
emueyes's Avatar emueyes 04:07 AM 03-19-2014
Yeah, I prefer Direct for music too. I thought the OP wanted an alternative way to use his surround/centre/sub when listening to stereo. Upmixing in general isn't a great idea imho, but using computer software at least offers more control over the process. I don't think fidelity, and I use the term loosely for this whole process, is necessarily going to be worse doing it in software on the computer than in software running on the receiver. I suppose having the sub working might be good for some situations like parties.
Doomas's Avatar Doomas 01:41 PM 03-19-2014
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But I am not happy, will be at home only on weekend... Can not wait to setup...
rpshannonjr's Avatar rpshannonjr 02:48 PM 03-19-2014

Just purchased 2 outlet stock pb-1000s for $898!!!  I love how SVS shows pictures of any damage to their open box specials.  One has a tiny hole in the grille and the other has a minor scuff on one corner of the enclosure.  Saved $51 compared to their dual sub package price and I still get the warranty and upgrade credit!  These will replace my JBL-sub10.  Think they will be an improvement?  (rhetorical)


swarm87's Avatar swarm87 04:47 PM 03-20-2014
anyone know if the pb-1000 can support the weight of a xpa-3 on top of it? is that even a good idea? ive seen pictures of it done with other lower and amps on bluray.com
Bishal Hussyn's Avatar Bishal Hussyn 05:15 PM 03-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarm87 View Post

anyone know if the pb-1000 can support the weight of a xpa-3 on top of it? is that even a good idea? ive seen pictures of it done with other lower and amps on bluray.com
emotiva??most of the time i sit on my pb100 i weight 140lbs..looo..though it will support xp3 but won't be a good idea..may rattle on heavy boom..
cel4145's Avatar cel4145 09:36 PM 03-31-2014
OK. I think we should keep this hidden to this thread (so fewer people find out) if it hasn't been announced on AVS already. HDTracks has a giveaway for a free SB-1000. Just enter your name and email address: http://www.hdtracks.com/blog/?p=482

smile.gif
danielrg's Avatar danielrg 02:31 AM 04-02-2014
This isn't an easy thread to read all the way through. So I'm going to ask it.

I've got this room:

10.5' in front, 14.4' in back, 25.5' long, L shaped. About 2250 cubic feet, a single solid core door to the hall, so room is sealed.



50/50 music & movies, but I'm not a huge action movie fan, but I do enjoy a good action with friends once a month or so. Really want to have a good tight bass sound that digs low.

So I am considering:

Dual PB-1000
Dual SB-1000
Dual SB-2000

I'm leaning toward the dual SB-2000 - I figure in my room with specs of 19 Hz and dual sub punch I'll have no trouble with even action movies, but still get the tight bass for music.

But are there any experiences otherwise? I'd like to get 20Hz response - could I possibly get down to 20 Hz in 2250 cu.ft. with the dual SB-1000s and save $350? Any reason to pick dual PB-1000 over dual SB-2000 for the setup I've described?

I pretty much want dual for the more even bass response I can get. I think I'll be pairing with a Marantz SR7008 with all the Audyssey room correction that implies.

Thanks for advice, experts!
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom 03:05 AM 04-02-2014
I'd probably look into PC/PB models for that size room. Probably PB12+.
Redoryx's Avatar Redoryx 06:24 AM 04-02-2014
Agree with the above poster,
But if you are limited to the choices listed, get the dual SB 2000's.
I out Dual PB 12 NSD's in my room, and love them. 7.5h x 11w x 18d. With an open 3' doorway.
Just watch for nulls.
bear123's Avatar bear123 06:40 AM 04-02-2014

I'd go with dual PB2000's over SB2000's.  In my opinion, unless you just can't physically fit them or cannot pass the WAF, ported is better for dual purpose.  Sealed subs are not more musical, they are more accurately, inferior for  movies.  But no company wants to market their sealed subs as inferior for movies.  Certainly sounds better to call them musical.  The ported subs will sound just as good for music, but have about 10 dB more output for movies.

 

To put things in a better perspective, it would take basically four SB2000's to equal the output of one PB2000 at 20-25 Hz, and by 31.5 Hz it would still take nearly three SB2000's to match a single PB2000.

 

This is too big of a difference to make a point of any negligible difference you might get in sound for music between the two subs.


fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom 06:44 AM 04-02-2014
yeah large room, if you want to stick for sealed box, then need to get SB Ultra 13. Not sure if you'd need two...starting to get expensive. I have a SB Ultra 13 as thinking prefer SB, but if I had a room that size I'd have kep the PC Ultra 13.

I'd get the best single sub you can afford, rather than two subs individually half of that single sub. If you really feel that duals improve things you can always buy another. But what if even dual SB1000 are insufficient? Quads? Nah just get two better ones.

I'd get dual PB2000 minimum. I'd avoid the SB1000/2000 models, if you must have SB get the SBU13.
Quote:
Sealed subs are not more musical, they are more accurately, inferior for movies.

I changed from SVS ported to SVS sealed, I think SB are better for music. I had a Rel ported sub a while back as well. Also if dB demands aren't too high, then SB are great for movies too, it just means you may have to double, to get the sufficient dB and FR in a larger room,ie two SB13U or one PB13U.

my room is small so ported= always best isn't set in stone, I have a SBU13 for the HT. And a SB12+ for the Hifi. Both rooms similar size, 3.5m x 3m. But for open plan apartment, or living room that goes from front of the house, to back, then yeah I'd go ported.
bear123's Avatar bear123 06:49 AM 04-02-2014

In blind tests, people cannot tell the difference between sealed and ported.  Bias and perception make drastically more difference than any actual difference. 


bear123's Avatar bear123 06:52 AM 04-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post


my room is small so ported= always best isn't set in stone

A small room does help sealed subs.  But ported still have the advantage when considering two similar subs even in a small room.  A single ported 12" sub has as much output in the 18-30Hz region as my more powerful, dual opposed 15" sub.


fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom 06:52 AM 04-02-2014
sure whatever.

The PC Ultra 13 is a great sub but for music it's a bit lacking, probably because of my room. The SB does a better job for music, and if you don't need high spl, for movies too.

Tough luck if you don't like my opinion. I had a PC Ultra 13 and Sealed Box Ultra 13. SVS 20-39 PC Plus. SVS SB12+. Rel Storm.

Did you?

" But ported still have the advantage when considering two similar subs"

Each sub design has pros and cons. I've owned both types. Saying ported = better for everything...not so.

There is no way I could fit dual PC/PB Plus in my room, but dual SBU's would be possible, just. But I wouldn't need dual SBU13 anyway, it's a small room.
bear123's Avatar bear123 07:01 AM 04-02-2014

Correct, I do not think ported are better for everything.  I just don't think they are worse for anything other than sometimes being too large.  That is why I went to a dual opposed sealed design.  I got the same output as a 12" ported sub with the same size cab by going to 30" worth of drivers and more power..  And I more than doubled my output 40 Hz and up without going to a much larger ported sub.

 

Main thing I don't want people to falsely assume is that sealed subs are somehow more musical, I think this is mostly unsubstantiated.  And more often than not they are simply going to end up with vastly inferior output for movies due to a false assumption about superior musical capability.

 

If a ported sub is too big, then you have to give up output down low for movies and go sealed.  It is definitely a trade off though, and similar sealed subs are at a huge, four fold performance disadvantage for movies.


Redoryx's Avatar Redoryx 07:04 AM 04-02-2014
Oops, I meant ported
cel4145's Avatar cel4145 07:29 AM 04-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

I'd go with dual PB2000's over SB2000's.  In my opinion, unless you just can't physically fit them or cannot pass the WAF, ported is better for dual purpose.  Sealed subs are not more musical, they are more accurately, inferior for  movies.

That's just oversimplified to the point that it's wrong.

What's important is that there is enough max SPL for the listening volumes at the listening position in the room. That can be achieved with either the right sealed or ported subs, and it won't be achieved with the wrong ported or sealed subs.

Audioholics reviewed the previous incarnation of the SB-2000, the SB12, and rated it as good in rooms up to 3,000 cubic feet. It was tested in a 4,000 cubic foot room and performed quite well. The SB-2000 has deeper extension and a little more output.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

In blind tests, people cannot tell the difference between sealed and ported.  Bias and perception make drastically more difference than any actual difference. 

Are you referring to the blind listening tests from the AVS GTG? That was a test of the very best ported and sealed subs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

A small room does help sealed subs.  But ported still have the advantage when considering two similar subs even in a small room.  A single ported 12" sub has as much output in the 18-30Hz region as my more powerful, dual opposed 15" sub.

This does not work as a generalization either. There is no advantage if the sealed subs provide enough SPL for the listening volumes at the listening position for the frequency response. It depends on the subs.
cel4145's Avatar cel4145 07:37 AM 04-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielrg View Post

But are there any experiences otherwise? I'd like to get 20Hz response - could I possibly get down to 20 Hz in 2250 cu.ft. with the dual SB-1000s and save $350? Any reason to pick dual PB-1000 over dual SB-2000 for the setup I've described?

I own an SB-1000, and I think duals would be challenged in that size room. They would sound good, but more output would be better. Based on distortion measurements I have seen for the PB-1000, I would expect the SB-2000s to sound better.

But I would call SVS and ask them. They are very good at answering questions about their products, and they give good advice. Plus they have the free in-home trial with free shipping both ways. So you have nothing to lose by trying which ever set you want and seeing if it performs to YOUR expectations, rather than someone else's smile.gif
highd3f's Avatar highd3f 07:56 AM 04-02-2014
What about SB + PB combo? Would that work? So you can have like a hybrid. One doing its best for music and the other for movies, yet helping one another shake the room whichever the content is playing. Does anyone here have sealed / ported combo that can say a word or two what it's like?
bear123's Avatar bear123 08:59 AM 04-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post




Audioholics reviewed the previous incarnation of the SB-2000, the SB12, and rated it as good in rooms up to 3,000 cubic feet. It was tested in a 4,000 cubic foot room and performed quite well. The SB-2000 has deeper extension and a little more output. There is no advantage if the sealed subs provide enough SPL for the listening volumes at the listening position for the frequency response. It depends on the subs.

From Brent Butterworth's review  of the SB2000:

 

"When I played deep-bass classics such as U-571 and Star Wars, Episode II: Attack of the Clones, the SB-2000's internal limiter kept it from distorting audibly, but it never delivered the low-frequency shake and rumble I like to hear when watching action movies."

 

My point, as long as the size is not a huge issue, when comparing two very similar subs like the PB2000 and SB2000, there is no reason to pass up four times the output for movies.


bear123's Avatar bear123 09:11 AM 04-02-2014

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


That's just oversimplified to the point that it's wrong.

 

This was in response to my statement that, given two similar subs, ported is generally better than sealed for dual purpose movies and music.  I think this, in general, is accurate.  Take an average room in which one ported sub is adequate for movies, such as a PB1000 or PB2000.  Replacing those with a somewhat equivalent sealed sub, i.e. SB1000 or SB2000, would require FOUR to match the low frequency output for movies.  And room gain won't alter that disadvantage, as the ported sub gets the same benefit from room gain down to its port tune.

 

Sealed subs can provide enough output for movies, but, fact is, it takes a lot more excursion and a lot more power to get the same output around the ported subs tuning frequency, which is normally in the region that benefits output for movies.

 

In the context of a limited budget, say typical entry level $5-$800, a ported sub offers substantially more bang for the buck than an equivalent sealed.  The only reason to go sealed, imo, is if someone either cannot fit a larger ported sub or is simply unwilling to do so.  But they will give up drastic output for movies by doing so.


bear123's Avatar bear123 09:13 AM 04-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by highd3f View Post

What about SB + PB combo? Would that work? So you can have like a hybrid. One doing its best for music and the other for movies, yet helping one another shake the room whichever the content is playing. Does anyone here have sealed / ported combo that can say a word or two what it's like?


The point is, one is not best for music, its just worse for movies.  Many feel ported and sealed don't play well together, although I have a sealed and ported temporarily integrated fairly well.  I plan on matching alignments in the future for best results.


Plasmalvr60's Avatar Plasmalvr60 09:16 AM 04-02-2014

I have a listening area that is 8 to 10 feet away from where the Sub Woofer would be.  The entire room is 24" x 12".  I like the idea of a small powerful sub woofer, so the 13" x 13" SB-1000 is very appealing to me.  Mostly for movies and less for just music.  What do you think?  Thanks in advance!


bear123's Avatar bear123 09:18 AM 04-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasmalvr60 View Post
 

I have a listening area that is 8 to 10 feet away from where the Sub Woofer would be.  The entire room is 24" x 12".  I like the idea of a small powerful sub woofer, so the 13" x 13" SB-1000 is very appealing to me.  Mostly for movies and less for just music.  What do you think?  Thanks in advance!


Your room will not provide enough low frequency gain to make a small sealed sub effective for movies.  I would recommend the PB1000 if you can fit it.  It is one of the smallest ported subs that has solid 20 Hz output.


Tags: Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer
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