New SVS SB1000 & PB1000 Subwoofers!! - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 1262 Old 04-07-2014, 08:47 PM
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OK.

What's also weird about his number is the variance in the frequency response compared to what SVS has listed, which was confirmed by the charts in this review. Something weird seems to be going on with his measurement. I wouldn't trust the SB-2000 measurements either since they seem off from the linearity that SVS is claiming, and SVS has always been accurate before when Ricci has measured the subs.

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post #1172 of 1262 Old 04-07-2014, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
 

On the other hand, watching a movie with a big LFE effect would reveal a much different aspect...that being the PB1000 will have much higher output resulting in a lot more impact and rumble, whereas the SB would hit its limiter much sooner and have less impact.  This is the nature of ported and sealed subs.

 

Big LFE rumble isn't of utmost importance to me, but I did compare the two subs using several movies including Return of the King, Star Trek Into Darkness and Dark Knight Rises. At volume levels that are comfortable to me, both were more than adequate. I didn't crank up the noise for a more extreme test, but I don't doubt your analysis. If movie viewing was my top priority I might go after the PB-2000 but size is the issue there. 

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post #1173 of 1262 Old 04-08-2014, 04:33 AM
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Oh that's good then.  If you demo'd movies and it met your needs then you are good to go.  That's whats great about SVS and others in home demo, you get to know for sure if it meets your needs.  Congrats and enjoy!


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post #1174 of 1262 Old 04-08-2014, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

OK.

What's also weird about his number is the variance in the frequency response compared to what SVS has listed, which was confirmed by the charts in this review. Something weird seems to be going on with his measurement. I wouldn't trust the SB-2000 measurements either since they seem off from the linearity that SVS is claiming, and SVS has always been accurate before when Ricci has measured the subs.

Remember there will be a difference between a linear FR at low SPL compared to max burst testing.  Two totally different things.  It would be a poor design if any company limited their subs to be flat from their peak output at 20 Hz.  This would simply place far too much restriction on  a subs output capabilities.  The more headroom a company allows their subs to have without any artificial limiting, the more likely they will be to accurately reproduce whatever demand is placed on them.  In my opinion, a flat response line at max SPL would be a bad design.


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post #1175 of 1262 Old 04-08-2014, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Remember there will be a difference between a linear FR at low SPL compared to max burst testing.  Two totally different things.  It would be a poor design if any company limited their subs to be flat from their peak output at 20 Hz.  This would simply place far too much restriction on  a subs output capabilities.  The more headroom a company allows their subs to have without any artificial limiting, the more likely they will be to accurately reproduce whatever demand is placed on them.  In my opinion, a flat response line at max SPL would be a bad design.

My bad. I was thinking of the PB12, not the SB12. The PB12 does seem to limit it's output above it's tuning point to a fairly flat response.

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post #1176 of 1262 Old 04-08-2014, 08:36 AM
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How would you guys compare the PB-1000 to say the BIC PL-200? I currently have the PL-200 and I would like something with a little smoother response and maybe a little cleaner output. I would like to upgrade soon but I'm thinking the 1000 may be enough, and I wouldn't need, or really take advantage of, the 2000. Honestly, if my PL-200 had smoother output and no port noise, I would be content with it. Maybe if it dug a little deeper as well. I just don't think I necessarily need louder, unless one method of getting rid of port noise is providing more headroom.

 

I guess another sub to consider is the pb12-nsd as those seem to be flooding the outlet section at the moment with very good pricing.

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post #1177 of 1262 Old 04-08-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oshia86 View Post

How would you guys compare the PB-1000 to say the BIC PL-200? I currently have the PL-200 and I would like something with a little smoother response and maybe a little cleaner output. I would like to upgrade soon but I'm thinking the 1000 may be enough, and I wouldn't need, or really take advantage of, the 2000. Honestly, if my PL-200 had smoother output and no port noise, I would be content with it. Maybe if it dug a little deeper as well. I just don't think I necessarily need louder, unless one method of getting rid of port noise is providing more headroom.

I guess another sub to consider is the pb12-nsd as those seem to be flooding the outlet section at the moment with very good pricing.

I just swapped my PB-1000 for one of those outlet PB12-NSD's. I have a large room and was happy with the PB1000, but obviously could not pass up the 12-NSD for just $50 more.

I got some advice from a couple of very knowledgeable posters on here through PM: With my limited budget, they all recommended the PB1000 over the BIC PL-200 for multiple reasons, including what you are discussing. Regardless, you got the 45 days to try it out and make sure it is exactly what you want.
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post #1178 of 1262 Old 04-08-2014, 09:06 AM
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Definitely go for the PB-12. It is an all around better sub than the PL-200.

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post #1179 of 1262 Old 04-08-2014, 11:10 AM
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bear123 -> is correct, the PB1000 will outgun the SB2000 in the ultra low bass by over 6 dB.

 

The PB1000 will put out just shy of 100 dB at 20hz, I think it is 99.8 dB.  With my test at 2m outside no reflections was 101 db.  Many variables that could explain the differences, but nothing to really care about.... It will play 20hz at 100 dB in pretty much any room.  In my room I have had it peak at 105 db.  I do not corner loud my sub, and I have a medium listening area (some may say large) that opens to a kitchen, bathroom, bedroom and outdoors.  Pretty capable subwoofer.  It also plays with low distortion... However, some people want more earth shaking bass, they will need a pair, or a different subwoofer.

 

In regards to the BIC PL-200.  Most average people, would be very happy with this subwoofer.  Most people = people coming from HTITB and bose setups/ computer systems.  They would probably be blown away.  The BIC PL-200 is a good subwoofer.  However, you can NOT compare it to the performance of companies like SVS, HSU, outlaw, Rythmic, etc.  

 

Honestly, the BIC may play the 40-120hz louder than the SVS.  But under 30hz I don't think you would hear much of anything from the BIC.  On the other hand the PB1000 will output over 100 dB in room at 20hz.  Also you will get a huge increase in sound quality and WAY less port noise.  

 

All around I don't think anyone will be disappointed with the PB1000, unless you require ultra fine sound quality or massive amounts of SPL.

 

Is it worth it to upgrade?  Depends on hundreds of questions and answers.  

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post #1180 of 1262 Old 04-08-2014, 02:04 PM
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We all know a ported sub has more output than a sealed sub. That's nothing new. That wasn't the point to try and deny that.

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post #1181 of 1262 Old 04-08-2014, 08:04 PM
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Nikwasi, cel, and bear...

Thanks for duking out another great discussion on the PB1000 vs SB2000. Don't worry, I'm watching! The more I read the more I'm not even sure if I'll demo the PB1000. Depends on whether I want to take the time, but I know I'll be very busy this summer. Gotta actually finish the room first! I'll probably get one SB2000, then buy another later after spending some time with it, and testing for my particular room problems to see if its worth the additional $600 to add the second one.

I say additional $600 because SVS will give me the pair price even if I buy them separately, as long as its within a year, right? So if I buy the first at $699, then I can get a second at $600? (total $1299).... right? I didn't see it in the bill of rights or anything, but thought I'd read it somewhere...

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post #1182 of 1262 Old 04-08-2014, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielrg View Post

Nikwasi, cel, and bear...

Thanks for duking out another great discussion on the PB1000 vs SB2000. Don't worry, I'm watching! The more I read the more I'm not even sure if I'll demo the PB1000. Depends on whether I want to take the time, but I know I'll be very busy this summer. Gotta actually finish the room first! I'll probably get one SB2000, then buy another later after spending some time with it, and testing for my particular room problems to see if its worth the additional $600 to add the second one.

I say additional $600 because SVS will give me the pair price even if I buy them separately, as long as its within a year, right? So if I buy the first at $699, then I can get a second at $600? (total $1299).... right? I didn't see it in the bill of rights or anything, but thought I'd read it somewhere...

 

If you're seriously thinking in terms of dual SB-2000s, I doubt it would be worth your while to audition the SB-1000. I'm glad I decided to try out the SB-2 before my 45 day trial expired on the PB-1. It just suits my needs and preferences much better.

 

The sub-bass extremists on this thread had me struggling with vague feelings of inadequacy pertaining to output and extension, but I'm over it now. With sound so lavish, I'll never miss a couple of db's here or hz's there. ;) 

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post #1183 of 1262 Old 04-08-2014, 09:46 PM
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I've had my PB-1000 for a week now and it is pretty amazing. It's my first HT setup so I don't have anything familiar to compare it to, but I can sure hear/feel the sound all around me. I'm glad I subscribed to this forum before I made my purchases. I was heavily favoring a Samsung HTIB package for about $900. I'm so glad a didn't make that terrible mistake. The PB-1000 was the last piece to get delivered to my house. I had it up and running before my girlfriend came home from work and she thought there was an earthquake happening when she got out of her car. 

 

I might eventually take advantage of their "trade up" policy, but to be honest, I really don't think I need to. I feel the bass in the furniture/flooring with the PB-1000, but not in my chest. Can anyone tell me if the PB-2000 gives you that sensation? My room is 15x14x8.

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post #1184 of 1262 Old 04-09-2014, 04:26 PM
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  • SoopaFly -> Hey dude though I'd try and help you out some.

First off you are a wise man to NOT go with a HTITB.  If you think the PB1000 has no punch in the chest, all the HTITB would provide is distortion hahahaha

 

Now, the SVS PB1000 is amazing, however, has limitations.  It has a tuning point around 20hz.  This will allow it to pressurize a room and provide the wall shaking bass.  The punch in the chest feeling is more towards the 40-80hz range.  The SVS will not play these notes louder like most subwoofers, rather it will play all frequencies almost flat.

 

A great example would be the PA-150.  It is also normally on sale for $500 same price one could say as our SVS sub.  It is tuned higher and will provide more punch in the chest feeling and play louder.  However, it will not play much lower than 25hz, and at 20hz it may not have any usable bass.  It is all trade offs.

 

The only thing I can suggest is to place your PB1000 closer to your listening position, maybe behind your couch.  As well you may have speakers that play better punch so you could cut you speakers off at say 40hz, send the rest to the SVS.  You could also add a mid bass module or a seconds subwoofer with a higher tuning point.  Also you may need to decide what you rather... Punch to the chest, or ultra low bass.... Everyone is different.

 

Let me know if this helps!  Let us know what decision you make. But remember, there will always be trade offs... Especially when dealing with a budget.

 

Cheers 

 

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post #1185 of 1262 Old 04-09-2014, 04:54 PM
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Smitty is spot on with what he said.  The no cost solution is placing it near field....this makes a huge difference in the amount of impact you feel with the sub.  To test it, just crank up some good hard hitting bass music, sit in your MLP, then sit right next to your sub and feel the difference.  Another option, other than a mid bass module, would be adding a second PB1000 down the road if and when budget and placement options allow.  This would also give you the benefit of a much smoother frequency response with proper placement.

 

Another option to consider if you really want to know what is going on, would be to download REW from hometheatershack.com, order a Umik-1 mic for $100, and measure your room.  This will tell you if you have a null in the region that should be providing you with the mid bass slam you are missing.  Then you can experiment with placement and phase, or determine if duals are necessary as a long term solution.

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post #1186 of 1262 Old 04-09-2014, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittyfit View Post

The only thing I can suggest is to place your PB1000 closer to your listening position, maybe behind your couch. As well you may have speakers that play better punch so you could cut you speakers off at say 40hz, send the rest to the SVS. You could also add a mid bass module or a seconds subwoofer with a higher tuning point. Also you may need to decide what you rather... Punch to the chest, or ultra low bass.... Everyone is different.

Actually, it's not necessary to make that tradeoff. If your sub has enough output for the room at the listening position, you will have a sub that can both provide the punch in the chest feeling and the deep hitting bass when the source demands it when you have it turned up loud enough.

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post #1187 of 1262 Old 04-13-2014, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikwasi View Post


Footnote: The performance of my SB-2000 improved to some degree when I moved it off the floor and onto a stand about 18" high. It looks better that way, too.

Could I ask what you used for a stand, Nikwasi? That is a pretty hefty box.
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post #1188 of 1262 Old 04-13-2014, 07:51 AM
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Could I ask what you used for a stand, Nikwasi? That is a pretty hefty box.

 

It's a black metal "table" I found it Lowe's in the patio furniture section; set me back a whopping $12. I think it's meant to be used as a plant stand but it's plenty sturdy. At 15"x15" it's the perfect size for the SB-2000. As a piece of furniture it's an insult to elegance but my sub location is out of sight anyhow. I'd give you the item number if I still had the receipt.

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post #1189 of 1262 Old 04-17-2014, 09:59 AM
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Hello

 

I want next time to upgrade my Rel sub

and i was thinking about SVS PB 1000 or SB2000 due to real estate and WAF

 

I have make the room correction with the ARC and if you can have a look to the graphs

and give me some help in the choice

 

The sub is 3 metres from the listening position

 

Thanks

 

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post #1190 of 1262 Old 04-17-2014, 10:29 AM
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Hello

I want next time to upgrade my Rel sub
and i was thinking about SVS PB 1000 or SB2000 due to real estate and WAF

I have make the room correction with the ARC and if you can have a look to the graphs
and give me some help in the choice

The sub is 3 metres from the listening position

Thanks

arc14.04.14.pdf 960k .pdf file

Which REL sub do you have? Also, how big is your room, including any open areas?

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post #1191 of 1262 Old 04-17-2014, 11:51 AM
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it's an old model Q150E sealed box

i bought it in 2001 and it 's a good sub for music

 

at moment i'm not in the house to measure,

but i think the living room is about 3.50 meters x 4 meters

and it's open to the dining room which  is smaller,

ceilling is at 2.50 meters


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post #1192 of 1262 Old 04-17-2014, 01:56 PM
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I'm in a room similar size (actually a bit smaller) and went for the SB Ultra 13. But then my last sub was another Ultra 13 so stepping down to SB2000....not an option. I also a have a SB 12", I'd save up the Ultra 13 if I were you

If you do get the SB Ultra 13 the difference between the Q150E is vast. The Rel was never a great sub. Could you step up the Ultra 13? smile.gif

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post #1193 of 1262 Old 04-17-2014, 02:22 PM
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Sure the SB13 would be a great upgrade

but is triple than PB1000 :(( 


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post #1194 of 1262 Old 04-17-2014, 02:27 PM
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It's easily worth 3x the price of my SVS SB12+. And the SB12+ is much better than the Q150E.

At least for movies, for music ...not really as I'd never need the sheer output or slam - although I would love to get another as the SBU13 has variable high pass filter which I really would like.

The PB1000 is I think bigger than the SBU13?

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post #1195 of 1262 Old 04-30-2014, 10:12 AM
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Last weekend, After setting up Audyssey with my Onkyo TX-NR 929 I began hearing a clacking sound from my PB-1000. I was watching King Kong on Blu-Ray (Awesome movie to demo your system) and during scenes with heavy bass my sub's sound was very distorted and the clacking became louder. I turned the trim down on the sub and the volume down on the receiver and still had heavy distortion coming from my PB-1000. I then turned down the Audyssey setting for the sub down about 2db and that help but during scenes with heavy bass the sound from the sub was still distorted.

I gave SVS customer service a call and spoke to Jack Gilvey. Replacement sub on way!.

SVS customer service has the same quality of their subs. A+++++
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post #1196 of 1262 Old 06-09-2014, 08:17 AM
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I need some expert set up help. I’m trying to integrate my new PB-1000 with my PSB 5.1 system and Onkyo TX-NR809 receiver. When I run audyssey, it tells me to set my sub volume to 75dB. To achieve this I have to turn the gain to 9 o’clock. Audyssey then sets my speakers in the -2 to +2dB range and set my sub at +1dB. Then I bumped it up to about +4. These numbers seem to be in the correct range of each other based on what I’ve been reading here on set up. I set the crossover at 80Hz. While watching movies the sub seems to be very inactive unless it’s called upon to hit hard. The problem is there doesn’t seem to be the headroom to bump up the sub volume in the receiver.

I ran Audyssey again but ignored its request to set the sub volume to 75dB and turned the gain gain up to 2 o’clock. This time it set the sub way below the other speakers at -15dB but the sub was much more prominent while watching movies.

I ran Audyssey again with the sub gain at 11 o’clock and was given a SW level of -8.5dB. Approx. -6dB of the other speakers.
I ran Audyssey again with the sub gain at 12 o’clock and was given a SW level of -6.5dB. Approx. -4dB of the other speakers.

With the sub gain at 11 & 12 o’clock, I bumped the sub volume up to 0dB in the AVR. So far 11 o’clock has given the best results. Am I doing the right thing by ignoring Audyssey’s request to turn the sub volume to down to 75dB?

Also, once I run Audyssey, my speaker levels are all out of wack to my ears. This could be due to my wife’s furniture placement. She has a couch blocking half of my FL speaker. Audyssey compensates by boosting this speaker level but to my ears is way too high. I also have to turn my surrounds way down so they’re not overpowering. Is it ok to do this since Audyssey calibrated my speakers with the SW?
Sorry so long but I’m finding out SW’s are very hard to tune right.

As a side note, I’m very impressed with this sub so far. I was a little worried that the PB-1000 would not be big enough for my 2300 cubic foot room that is open to a couple hallways. I played some demo bass tracks at a very moderate volume and my wife ran down stairs and said “is that your new speaker that’s shaking the house?” She even said it wasn’t loud but the floor is shaking. I ran upstairs and sure enough, the floor is pulsating up and down. I ran back downstairs with a grin on my face! I also played some test tones from my PC. I could sense the 18Hz test tone and at 20Hz it was shaking the loose door down the hall. This was at a low volume too. The PB-1000 is a very capable performer for non-audiophiles who don’t listen at reference levels.
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post #1197 of 1262 Old 06-09-2014, 10:31 AM
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TyTimp -> great purchase I have one 2 :)

 

On your AVR set your subwoofer out to 0

 

Turn your avr master volume to 0

 

Play test tones for ALL of your speakers.  Adjust the speakers in the processor so each channel at 0 is playing 75 dB

 

put your subwoofer gain at half or 12 o clock.

 

Master volume of AVR is at 0, play the subwoofer tone, and turn the dial on the BACK of the subwoofer to make the meter say 75 dB.

 

What I have learned is NEVER to adjust the subwoofer volume in the receiver.  Keep that at zero and adjust the back of the subwoofer to meet the 75 dB at receiver volume 0.

 

Let me know if this helps and if you need more info.

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post #1198 of 1262 Old 06-09-2014, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittyfit View Post

TyTimp
 -> great purchase I have one 2 smile.gif

On your AVR set your subwoofer out to 0

Turn your avr master volume to 0

Play test tones for ALL of your speakers.  Adjust the speakers in the processor so each channel at 0 is playing 75 dB

put your subwoofer gain at half or 12 o clock.

Master volume of AVR is at 0, play the subwoofer tone, and turn the dial on the BACK of the subwoofer to make the meter say 75 dB.

What I have learned is NEVER to adjust the subwoofer volume in the receiver.  Keep that at zero and adjust the back of the subwoofer to meet the 75 dB at receiver volume 0.

Let me know if this helps and if you need more info.

So I think my mistake was I just left the AVR volume at whatever level it was at when running Audyssey. I thought once I plugged the mic in it overrode that volume.
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post #1199 of 1262 Old 06-09-2014, 11:23 AM
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TyTimp -> Bro I did the same thing, but ran mine even hotter... I had it set to +5 dB on the processor.

 

I had to contact SVS and they told me changing the subwoofer out on the AVR is never a good idea.  Something about the input signal being to strong and some voltage stuff hahaha, kinda went over my head.  But when I changed it, sounds night and day better.

 

Also I think it has to do about the protection DSP chip or something... It detects the signal in, to insure the safety of the driver, and when we amp it up some on the AVR settings, it may over drive the amp or woofer... I'm not 100% sure how it works, but I think you get the picture.

 

Let me know if you need more help, or setup tips dude!  Just went through it ALL hahaha.

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post #1200 of 1262 Old 06-09-2014, 11:26 AM
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer
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