New SVS SB1000 & PB1000 Subwoofers!! - Page 42 - AVS Forum
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post #1231 of 1256 Old 06-20-2014, 03:02 AM
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dprice18af -> I have never heard a BIC.

However, I can not see the BIC coming close to the same in performance as the SVS.

The SVS will DEF destroy the BIC below 30hz. But you stated for music... The SVS WILL be tighter with less distortion... By how much... I don't think a whole lot... The main benefit will be the additional extension, less distortion, higher reliability, and will sound a bit better (maybe a lot, but I think your subwoofer is somewhat decent)

The SB2000, will prob not go as loud as your BIC, but will DEF sound a fair bit better.... I think it may be better since you do not care for SPL nor ultra low extension. I feel for your purposes the SB2000 will walk the BIC.

Remember I have not listened to the BIC, just going by experience.
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post #1232 of 1256 Old 06-20-2014, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittyfit View Post
dprice18af -> I have never heard a BIC.

However, I can not see the BIC coming close to the same in performance as the SVS.

The SVS will DEF destroy the BIC below 30hz. But you stated for music... The SVS WILL be tighter with less distortion... By how much... I don't think a whole lot... The main benefit will be the additional extension, less distortion, higher reliability, and will sound a bit better (maybe a lot, but I think your subwoofer is somewhat decent)

The SB2000, will prob not go as loud as your BIC, but will DEF sound a fair bit better.... I think it may be better since you do not care for SPL nor ultra low extension. I feel for your purposes the SB2000 will walk the BIC.

Remember I have not listened to the BIC, just going by experience.
Thank you for the suggestions and advice.
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post #1233 of 1256 Old 06-20-2014, 09:51 PM
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Is anyone using the SB1000 through the speaker level inputs. Curious to know how the sound would be seeing that you can't set the xover level below 50 Hz when used with fullrange speakers
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post #1234 of 1256 Old 06-21-2014, 07:13 AM
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dprice18af -> This may help, though i'd throw it in.

I prefer the SVS PB1000 over the paradigm reference PW 2200 v1 and V3.... Also over ALL the velodyne subwoofers i have own and the Energy s12.3 or w.e it was that was highly regarded at the time. It was good but not great.
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post #1235 of 1256 Old 08-26-2014, 04:42 PM
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This may be a dumb question but for now I have a sony receiver, I'm in the market for a marantz receiver so I will have something better soon ANYWAYS, what is this -3db,+3db mean and how do I adjust that? What crossover freq should I set this sub at? It'll be here friday.
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post #1236 of 1256 Old 08-27-2014, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinlg View Post
This may be a dumb question but for now I have a sony receiver, I'm in the market for a marantz receiver so I will have something better soon ANYWAYS, what is this -3db,+3db mean and how do I adjust that? What crossover freq should I set this sub at? It'll be here friday.
I'm not sure in what sense you're referring to -3dB/+3dB, so I don't know how to answer that question. The crossover frequency should be set based on the speakers you have. Maybe that's what you mean by the -3dB thing--your other speakers, especially the front left and right, and the center channel, have a -3dB point. That would be the lower frequency where the speaker output drops by 3dB over the output within it's capable range(there is an upper frequency -3 dB point as well, but that doesn't matter so much when talking about a sub). You should probably set your crossover at least 10Hz higher than this, although advice here may differ. What you want is for your sub to pick up where your speakers start to lose output. If your speakers go really low, you may even want your sub to pick up before this point.

This question would be much easier to answer if we knew what your other speakers are, and a few other details about your setup.
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post #1237 of 1256 Old 08-27-2014, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ThinkRationally View Post
I'm not sure in what sense you're referring to -3dB/+3dB, so I don't know how to answer that question. The crossover frequency should be set based on the speakers you have. Maybe that's what you mean by the -3dB thing--your other speakers, especially the front left and right, and the center channel, have a -3dB point. That would be the lower frequency where the speaker output drops by 3dB over the output within it's capable range(there is an upper frequency -3 dB point as well, but that doesn't matter so much when talking about a sub). You should probably set your crossover at least 10Hz higher than this, although advice here may differ. What you want is for your sub to pick up where your speakers start to lose output. If your speakers go really low, you may even want your sub to pick up before this point.

This question would be much easier to answer if we knew what your other speakers are, and a few other details about your setup.
Thanks for the info, this is for my living room set-up, it's a small 13x16 room with a Sony HW40ES projector, I have a 5.0 set of the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers (1 center, 2 floorstanding speakers, and two bookshelf as surrounds) then the SVS PB-1000, my receiver will be the marantz sr5008. As of now I had the floors set at 80hz, the center at 90hz, and the surrounds at 100hz, and my old subwoofer was set at 80hz(Andrew Jones sub)
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post #1238 of 1256 Old 08-27-2014, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinlg View Post
Thanks for the info, this is for my living room set-up, it's a small 13x16 room with a Sony HW40ES projector, I have a 5.0 set of the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers (1 center, 2 floorstanding speakers, and two bookshelf as surrounds) then the SVS PB-1000, my receiver will be the marantz sr5008. As of now I had the floors set at 80hz, the center at 90hz, and the surrounds at 100hz, and my old subwoofer was set at 80hz(Andrew Jones sub)
Without looking up the exact specs of those speakers, I don't see anything wrong with this setup except maybe the subwoofer crossover. If you mean the low-pass filter on the sub itself, you should just set this to its maximum or off position. On the PB-1000 this would be the LFE setting on the low-pass filter knob. The sub doesn't need to filter any frequencies, because your AVR should be doing that with the crossover frequencies you have set for the speakers.
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post #1239 of 1256 Old 08-29-2014, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ThinkRationally View Post
Without looking up the exact specs of those speakers, I don't see anything wrong with this setup except maybe the subwoofer crossover. If you mean the low-pass filter on the sub itself, you should just set this to its maximum or off position. On the PB-1000 this would be the LFE setting on the low-pass filter knob. The sub doesn't need to filter any frequencies, because your AVR should be doing that with the crossover frequencies you have set for the speakers.
got it today, wow it's colossal. I got the sound isolation with it, set it at 80hz and 75% volume with the phaser at 0 and it's wonderful!
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post #1240 of 1256 Old 09-09-2014, 12:55 AM
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Can anyone comment on my situation? Currently have a Denon 4520 receiver to 5.1 setup, Speakercraft AIM8 Three's for LCR and surround, with an in-wall Artison RCC-600 sub. Long story short, the amp on my Artison is shot and I did I not purchase from an AD, so warranty repair isn't an option and I'm planning to ditch in-wall entirely and go with a standalone sub connected with a wireless transmitter. Space is extremely limited so form factor and size matters. Was considering the SB1000. Use will be 80% TV (sports) and movies at moderate volume (rarely loud), 20% music. Can anyone compare to the Artison? My annoyance with it was that it sounded great at high volume but just produced muffled crackles at my average listening volume. I don't need a sub that pounds, just something that adds life to what I watch. Room is not acoustically optimal - 14 x 30, 9 foot ceilings, open to kitchen, hallway, staircase. Goal would be to contain the bass to the main listening area as best as I can.
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post #1241 of 1256 Old 09-09-2014, 01:35 AM
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^^ For your requirements, sure, the SB-1000 will be barely okay as long as you place it near-field, and since you aren't after anything other than a little support bass. However, your room volume is considered large (not including your openings to other rooms) and the SB-1000 works best in small rooms (under 1500 cu. ft.). If I were you I'd try to get at least the PB-1000. It's not all that large, but you will need to be the one to decide what will fit and what won't. As far as how either the SB or PB-1000s would compare to the Artison ... I'm not familiar with this in-wall sub. But from what I read, it comes with a pretty powerful 600 watt RMS separate amp and has four 5 x 8 woofers and a frequency response of 20 - 160 Hz plus/minus 3 dB (pretty darn good). That should have provided you with good bass.

The problem with anything that can't be moved around is that your are at the mercy of its location, which may sound terrible at your listening position. Add to that your room volume, and I'm not surprised it didn't work out for you. At least with the SVS, you can try it out and if it doesn't work out, send it back.
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post #1242 of 1256 Old 09-09-2014, 08:11 AM
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^^ For your requirements, sure, the SB-1000 will be barely okay as long as you place it near-field, and since you aren't after anything other than a little support bass. However, your room volume is considered large (not including your openings to other rooms) and the SB-1000 works best in small rooms (under 1500 cu. ft.). If I were you I'd try to get at least the PB-1000. It's not all that large, but you will need to be the one to decide what will fit and what won't.
Agreed. I have the SB-1000. Great little sub, but absolutely a horrible choice for a 14 x 30 room.

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post #1243 of 1256 Old 09-09-2014, 05:23 PM
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I agree too on that room 14 x 30 needed a bigger sub, I have a svs 10incher in a 15 X 10 room that opens into another area and it's fine because of the placement in my listening area. If the room where any bigger then the next up svs would be the better choice. The $500 price point is whats hard to pass when looking for a new sub, I get it, but the $700 aint that hard to reach if you really need the bigger one. Plus svs is great to deal with.
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post #1244 of 1256 Old 09-10-2014, 07:07 AM
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Hi all

I have a pretty big living room that shares space with our family dining room as well (LR and DR 15 x 25 or so)

I need a smaller sub for hiding in a basket - and thoughts SVB but now thinking just won't work given room size? I am looking for just very moderate bass support for kef t301 on wall speakers for 80% music usage.

My other thought is polk 10 inch 550?
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post #1245 of 1256 Old 09-10-2014, 07:09 AM
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Hi all

I have a pretty big living room that shares space with our family dining room as well (LR and DR 15 x 25 or so)

I need a smaller sub for hiding in a basket - and thoughts SVB but now thinking just won't work given room size? I am looking for just very moderate bass support for kef t301 on wall speakers for 80% music usage.

My other thought is polk 10 inch 550?
Oh and trying to find something with a less than 14 inch square width
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post #1246 of 1256 Old 09-10-2014, 02:45 PM
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A subwoofer in a basket reminds me of pigs in a blanket. We're not talking food here, right? Why would anyone put a sub in a basket? I'll just assume you were joking. I'm not sure why you have a 14-inch "square" maximum requirement … perhaps you weren't joking!!??

Ignoring that odd situation for a moment, your combined rooms are 3,000 cu. ft. (if we are talking 8-foot ceiling heights). That's considered a large room subwoofer-wise. The Polk shouldn't be in consideration. For "very moderate" bass, a PB-1000 could work okay for you, but won't fit your 14-inch square requirement. The only "real" sub I know that is small enough would be the SB-1000 (13-inch cube), but that's asking a lot from a small sealed sub that is NOT in a basket.

Your choice. At least with SVS you can order it, try it out, and if it doesn't work for you, you can send it back on SVS's dime -- you keep your basket, of course .
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post #1247 of 1256 Old 09-16-2014, 11:58 AM
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Would a pair of SB-1000s be a good match with my PB-2000? My room is 16x10x7.5, so I've got some pretty nasty room nodes. I've attached a graph that illustrates the issue, though isn't entirely up to date (it was worse before I added bass traps).

With a new MLP and speaker placement my main L+R are fairly flat down to about 50Hz and then trail off. When I add the PB-2000 I end up with nasty nulls at 80Hz and 120Hz (the 60Hz null in the graph has since been pushed upward).

Following the suggestions proposed by some of Earl Geddes research, I'm thinking of using multiple subs to even things out.

No matter where I place my MLP or speakers, the response in my room from about 40Hz down doesn't seem to change much, which seems somewhat consistent with my research.

What I'm unclear on is if the SB-1000 (or multiple units) will help iron out this region, or if I'd need something that reaches lower. The room is small as it is, and I'm scratching my head as to where I would place anything as big as another PB-2000.

My focus is split 80/20 music/movies. I listen to music in 2.1.

Having nulls at 80Hz and 120Hz is annoying and a problematic region. I can get rid of the nulls by using a 200Hz crossover, but then only if the sub is located behind the MLP. This makes the sub locatable during music listening and very distracting with it behind me! I need my 80--200Hz originating from the front of my room, and the sub performs terribly up there.

So...

a) would two or three SB-1000s help iron out both those problematic null regions?
b) would two or three SB-1000s help iron out what is happening in my room below 50Hz?
c) if musicality is my focus, is the SB a better fit in a small room than the PB?

*I'm in Canada, so the fancy SVS Bill of Rights™ with free shipping and all that doesn't seem to apply to me.
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post #1248 of 1256 Old Yesterday, 10:54 AM
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As a general rule, you're always better with multiple subs of the same model.

The reason for this is that if one of the subs has a lower limit (at any given frequency) than the others, it becomes a limiting factor of the whole setup. For example, the SB-1000 would reach its limits at 20 Hz at a much lower level than the PB-2000. If you then try to go at a higher level, the SB-1000 won't go any louder (with other brands, you could even induce distress sounds). Since the setup was calibrated with the two subs playing at the same level, and you now have one sub playing lower than the other, you will overall have lacking bass, even if the PB-2000 can go louder by himself.

Another reason is that especially with ported subs like the PB-2000, close to the tuning frequency (20 Hz), the phase characteristics of the sub can get a bit quirky. Mixing subs having different phase characteristics may lead to a response exhibiting peaks and/or nulls. For that reason mixing a sealed sub like the SB-1000 and PB-2000 is generally avoided, though it might work for you.

You might want to *replace* the PB-2000 with, say, dual SB-1000's or SB-2000's, but then you'll likely lose a bit of output around the PB-2000's tuning point.

Since yesterday, it's also worth noting that Canadian customers can now order directly from SVS, with free shipping and the whole Bill of Rights shebang!

EDIT: Nulls around the crossover point are very frequent and very hard to get rid of -- they typically happen for at least some listening positions and at least some of the channels. Typically people try to tame them by adjusting the distance settings in the AVR but only for the main listening position and for the center channel. You will probably get a flatter response with dual or triple subs, but it's still no panacea, and an equalizing solution (be it built-in in the AVR such as Audyssey MultEQ XT/XT32 or external such as a MiniDSP) could help tremendously.


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post #1249 of 1256 Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM
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As a general rule, you're always better with multiple subs of the same model.

The reason for this is that if one of the subs has a lower limit (at any given frequency) than the others, it becomes a limiting factor of the whole setup. For example, the SB-1000 would reach its limits at 20 Hz at a much lower level than the PB-2000. If you then try to go at a higher level, the SB-1000 won't go any louder (with other brands, you could even induce distress sounds). Since the setup was calibrated with the two subs playing at the same level, and you now have one sub playing lower than the other, you will overall have lacking bass, even if the PB-2000 can go louder by himself.
If I may barge into the discussion, I was going to discuss this with SVS customer support first, but I have been pondering getting a PB-2000 to go with my PB-1000. Sure, I could get another 1000...but it's not a 2000 In order that the 1000 not limit the output potential of the 2000, I was wondering whether I could set the 1000 2-2.5 dB lower. Basically, the 2000 would be the workhorse and the 1000 (while not far behind) would fill in room modes while still providing more overall output. They are both ported subs and I think the tuning frequency is quite close. I'm just not sure what detrimental effects setting them at different output levels might have (aside from maybe not providing complete smoothing, although this is also highly location dependent).

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post #1250 of 1256 Old Yesterday, 11:15 AM
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In order that the 1000 not limit the output potential of the 2000, I was wondering whether I could set the 1000 2-2.5 dB lower.
This is one solution to that conundrum: have the bigger sub work harder and calibrating the setup with the bigger sub set to produce a larger output than the smaller one. Another way to do the same is to place the smaller sub close to the listener and the bigger sub further away, and ensure that each of them gets the same SPL at the main listening position. The larger sub will naturally have to work harder to produce the same SPL since it's further.

The only caveat to this is that it's harder to set up. In your case the two subs would have the same frequency response shape (except for max level) and roughly the same phase profile so it would be doable with a minimum of side effects.

Another way to do this is to limit listening to levels within the capabilities of the smaller sub, but then it would be a tacit admission that you don't really need the bigger sub in the first place

Also I'm not saying that it's impossible to get a PB-2000 and two SB-1000's working together. It might work great; but in principle there are obstacles.

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post #1251 of 1256 Old Yesterday, 11:22 AM
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This is one solution to that conundrum: have the bigger sub work harder and calibrating the setup with the bigger sub set to produce a larger output than the smaller one. Another way to do the same is to place the smaller sub close to the listener and the bigger sub further away, and ensure that each of them gets the same SPL at the main listening position. The larger sub will naturally have to work harder to produce the same SPL since it's further.

The only caveat to this is that it's harder to set up. In your case the two subs would have the same frequency response shape (except for max level) and roughly the same phase profile so it would be doable with a minimum of side effects.
I was thinking of calibrating the volume on the back of the subs independently first, such that the PB-1000 was set a bit lower. Then doing a full calibration, without changing the volume at the subs, with both running. I have a miniDSP and UMIK to do some smoothing once the levels are set.
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post #1252 of 1256 Old Yesterday, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post
As a general rule, you're always better with multiple subs of the same model.

The reason for this is that if one of the subs has a lower limit (at any given frequency) than the others, it becomes a limiting factor of the whole setup. For example, the SB-1000 would reach its limits at 20 Hz at a much lower level than the PB-2000. If you then try to go at a higher level, the SB-1000 won't go any louder (with other brands, you could even induce distress sounds). Since the setup was calibrated with the two subs playing at the same level, and you now have one sub playing lower than the other, you will overall have lacking bass, even if the PB-2000 can go louder by himself.

Another reason is that especially with ported subs like the PB-2000, close to the tuning frequency (20 Hz), the phase characteristics of the sub can get a bit quirky. Mixing subs having different phase characteristics may lead to a response exhibiting peaks and/or nulls. For that reason mixing a sealed sub like the SB-1000 and PB-2000 is generally avoided, though it might work for you.

You might want to *replace* the PB-2000 with, say, dual SB-1000's or SB-2000's, but then you'll likely lose a bit of output around the PB-2000's tuning point.

Since yesterday, it's also worth noting that Canadian customers can now order directly from SVS, with free shipping and the whole Bill of Rights shebang!

EDIT: Nulls around the crossover point are very frequent and very hard to get rid of -- they typically happen for at least some listening positions and at least some of the channels. Typically people try to tame them by adjusting the distance settings in the AVR but only for the main listening position and for the center channel. You will probably get a flatter response with dual or triple subs, but it's still no panacea, and an equalizing solution (be it built-in in the AVR such as Audyssey MultEQ XT/XT32 or external such as a MiniDSP) could help tremendously.
Thanks for the response...though I'm still trying to digest the bit about *replacing* my PB-2000.

So I'm guessing mixing PB-1000s in with the PB-2000 would cause additional null/peak issues as their ports are tuned differently?
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post #1253 of 1256 Old Yesterday, 06:13 PM
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Thanks for the response...though I'm still trying to digest the bit about *replacing* my PB-2000.
Well to be clear, I'm not actually suggesting you replace the PB-2000

If I were you and getting a second PB-2000 is out of question because of space and/or budget restrictions, I think I'd look into an EQing solution if you don't already use one. Do you? What is your AVR? If you don't have an AVR that auto-EQs the subwoofer channel, adding a MiniDSP to your setup is not really expensive and it looks like you already can take frequency response measurements.

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So I'm guessing mixing PB-1000s in with the PB-2000 would cause additional null/peak issues as their ports are tuned differently?
I think the PB-1000 and PB-2000 both are tuned at 20 Hz and have pretty much the same frequency response shape; the PB-2000 will just go louder. Perhaps a tad deeper because of the bigger enclosure. A PB-1000 would sure be a better match as a second sub than an SB-1000 with your PB-2000, but you'd have to take care to set them up so that the PB-2000 works harder.

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post #1254 of 1256 Old Yesterday, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
Well to be clear, I'm not actually suggesting you replace the PB-2000

If I were you and getting a second PB-2000 is out of question because of space and/or budget restrictions, I think I'd look into an EQing solution if you don't already use one. Do you? What is your AVR? If you don't have an AVR that auto-EQs the subwoofer channel, adding a MiniDSP to your setup is not really expensive and it looks like you already can take frequency response measurements.
I have an Onkyo 805 that does MultiEQ XT. I also have a miniDSP that I will be using to feed the 3 or 4 subs I'll end up with so I'm good on the EQ front--just trying to get as flat a response as possible before introducing EQ.

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I think the PB-1000 and PB-2000 both are tuned at 20 Hz and have pretty much the same frequency response shape; the PB-2000 will just go louder. Perhaps a tad deeper because of the bigger enclosure. A PB-1000 would sure be a better match as a second sub than an SB-1000 with your PB-2000, but you'd have to take care to set them up so that the PB-2000 works harder.
I can't say I've really wrapped my head around port tuning TBH. Are you sure they are tuned the same? Their woofers are different sizes, their ports are different sizes, and their frequency responses are different. Both models are tuned to 20Hz? How would I verify this?

edit: on the SVS website I'm reading about how ported subs in small rooms (mine is 16x10x7.5) exhibit strong room gain below 40Hz, and I'm definitely seeing this in my measurements. Am I to assume the sealed subs would measure smoother right out of the gate in a room that size versus the ported?

I cringe thinking I bought the wrong sub, but from most of what I'm reading sealed would have been the way to go in such a small room...

Last edited by HDgaming42; Yesterday at 10:48 PM.
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post #1255 of 1256 Old Today, 02:23 AM
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I cringe thinking I bought the wrong sub, but from most of what I'm reading sealed would have been the way to go in such a small room...
I changed from PCU13 to SBU13. Small room <1000 cu foot and it sounds A LOT better.

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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
I changed from PCU13 to SBU13. Small room <1000 cu foot and it sounds A LOT better.
Thanks for providing this. I believe my volume is about 1200 cu feet so our situations are quite similar. Perhaps I'll call SVS and see if they can accommodate some kind of trade-in/up. The Canadian distributor's website does not have the wealth of knowledge offered on the US site--this ported/sealed in a small room has completely taken me by surprise (caveat emptor and all that)...

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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer
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