New SVS SB1000 & PB1000 Subwoofers!! - Page 44 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1291 of 1318 Old 03-01-2015, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
Yeah, the SB12-NSD is a little larger than the SB1000 and it's amp is 100w more powerful. Their outlet subs carry their full 5 year warranty and 45 day return policy.

Also, just a matter of preference, but the SB/PB1000 models come with cloth grills. Personally, I prefer the metal grills that the SB/PB12-NSD come with. Obviously more costly on the part of SVS to include and ship a metal grill over a cloth one.
So I found this: https://app.audiogon.com/listings/mo...n-on-hudson-ny

With shipping it'd still be at my $500 budget. Is that an even older model than the NSD? Not seeing that plain wood color anywhere when researching SVS subs. Lot more knobs on the back of that thing, as well.
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post #1292 of 1318 Old 03-01-2015, 06:23 PM
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So I found this: https://app.audiogon.com/listings/mo...n-on-hudson-ny

With shipping it'd still be at my $500 budget. Is that an even older model than the NSD? Not seeing that plain wood color anywhere when researching SVS subs. Lot more knobs on the back of that thing, as well.
That's a pretty old Plus model, I think back in 2005 or 2006. It has the BASH amp that SVS used to use, but now they use the Sledge amps. I would personally stay away from that one considering it's age and the lack of warranty.

Game room> 60" LG plasma. Onkyo TX-NR509, Infinity Primus P363 fronts, P163 center, P163 rears, PSA XS30 15" dual driver sub. PS4 and XBox One. Living Room> 59" Samsung plasma. Onkyo HT-RC560, JBL Studio 180 fronts, Studio 120c center, Polk R150 sides, Polk RC60i in-wall rears, SVS PB12-NSD 12" sub. PS3 and XBox 360. Computer Room> Pioneer VSX-456 (old school), Infinity Primus P163 fronts, SVS SB12-NSD 12" sub.
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post #1293 of 1318 Old 03-01-2015, 06:25 PM
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PB1000 will do music a lot better than an SB will do movies. But if you want a sealed I'd opt for an SB2000 as your room is to large for the smaller sub.

■ Samsung (PN51F8500)
■ Sony (BDP-S590)
■ Yamaha (RX-V475)
Pioneer (BS22□C22)
■ SVS (PB-1000)
SVS (PC12-NSD)
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post #1294 of 1318 Old 03-02-2015, 08:03 AM
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I spoke with the guys at SVS today and they were confident the SB-1000 would do great in my room. They don't foresee additional SB-12 NSDs but if they do get one in they said I can surely exchange for one. If I'm dissatisfied with the SB-1000 (and I don't plan to be...I'm not much of a bass-head and I listen at low-moderate volumes generally) I'll trade-up to the 2000 later this year.

Edit: and not two hours later an outlet SB-12 NSD pops up for $480. Just switched my order over to that instead!

The SB12-NSD is basically the same sound signature as the SB-1000 but just "better," correct? I guess something about the fact that it's an older, now discontinued model makes me feel like maybe the SB-1000 is "better" and favored at this point. Did I make the right call going with the SB12 over the 1000?

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post #1295 of 1318 Old 03-02-2015, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rbf1138 View Post
I spoke with the guys at SVS today and they were confident the SB-1000 would do great in my room. They don't foresee additional SB-12 NSDs but if they do get one in they said I can surely exchange for one. If I'm dissatisfied with the SB-1000 (and I don't plan to be...I'm not much of a bass-head and I listen at low-moderate volumes generally) I'll trade-up to the 2000 later this year.

Edit: and not two hours later an outlet SB-12 NSD pops up for $480. Just switched my order over to that instead!

The SB12-NSD is basically the same sound signature as the SB-1000 but just "better," correct? I guess something about the fact that it's an older, now discontinued model makes me feel like maybe the SB-1000 is "better" and favored at this point. Did I make the right call going with the SB12 over the 1000?
The SB12-NSD was replaced by the SB2000. The SB12-NSD has 100w more power than the SB1000, a little larger cabinet and will go slightly lower in frequency. I think you made a good choice with the SB12-NSD.

Game room> 60" LG plasma. Onkyo TX-NR509, Infinity Primus P363 fronts, P163 center, P163 rears, PSA XS30 15" dual driver sub. PS4 and XBox One. Living Room> 59" Samsung plasma. Onkyo HT-RC560, JBL Studio 180 fronts, Studio 120c center, Polk R150 sides, Polk RC60i in-wall rears, SVS PB12-NSD 12" sub. PS3 and XBox 360. Computer Room> Pioneer VSX-456 (old school), Infinity Primus P163 fronts, SVS SB12-NSD 12" sub.
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post #1296 of 1318 Old 03-03-2015, 07:21 PM
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I'm not seeing it if it's on the site, but is there a cloth grill option/accessory for the SB12-NSD? It's looking like no but figured I'd check.
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post #1297 of 1318 Old 03-04-2015, 04:51 PM
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I have a sb2000 is a 14x12x8h room that is open to a small hall. It is just big enough imho. When I tried it in my 19x12x8h room which normally has my pb2000 the sb2000 sounded small. I am not a bass head, I do not like it really loud.
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post #1298 of 1318 Old 03-05-2015, 04:52 PM
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I got my SB12-NSD hooked up and ran Audessey XT with the gain at 12 o'clock, crossover set to Direct/LFE and phase at 0. The settings came back with the crossover set to 60hz, which I changed to 80.

It automatically set the subwoofer level to -12.0db which would indicate the subwoofer was to oloud?

On my receiver (Marantz SR6008) Subwwofer Mode is set to LFE+Main and LPF for LFE is set to 120hz.

Does this all seem right? The subwoofer seems to be doing very little work so far and doesn't seem loud. Should I be doing anything turning the gain up or down and then re-running Audessey or manually adjusting the Subwoofer level in the receivers settings?
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post #1299 of 1318 Old 03-05-2015, 05:00 PM
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yup sub too loud turn it down.
set to lfe only not lfe+main
set speakers to small 80hz

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post #1300 of 1318 Old 03-05-2015, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
yup sub too loud turn it down.
set to lfe only not lfe+main
set speakers to small 80hz
Hm, ok. Then re-run Audessey I take it, to let it boost the subwoofer itself? Otherwise, it doesn't seem like the subwoofer is doing much. Unless that just means it's integrated well?

Also, what's the purpose of LFE only and not LFE+Main? Don't I want some subwoofer with my Pure sound, no Audessey EQ music playback?

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post #1301 of 1318 Old 03-06-2015, 01:08 AM
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Your AVR manual explains LFE and LFE+main

You want the AVR's subwoofer output to be 00db, so adjust the subs own volume control, re-run calibration, until the AVR reports back 00dB

Pure direct mode (should) bypass bass management, set your L/R to full-range, disable subwoofer, and disable room EQ

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post #1302 of 1318 Old 03-07-2015, 01:27 AM
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Sorry but i don't agree with the 0db thing.

I recently replaced my Onkyo 609 with Onkyo 709.

I tried to set the sub to -3 on calibration with Audyssey, but the volume on sub was at 10 o'clock! which is ridiculous for my room size (which is not small).

Many users have reported that this sub really shows power at 2 o'clock....

So i talked with Ed from SVS and he suggested me to turn the volume on sub, so that Audyssey shows -12 or -13.

After that, you can increase the volume through the receiver to let's say -7 in order to get the sub sound louder.

The whole idea behind that is that the more power you give to the sub (volume at 1 o'clock or 2 w/e) the more output power it can give you... i don't know if i am making sense.... but it is different to let's say output 20Hz with 200Watt
and it is different to output 20Hz with 400Watt...

PS. I wish i could exchange my PB-1000 with PB-2000... My current sub placement is not great and i feel that the PB-1000 can't really fill the room nicely from where it is
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post #1303 of 1318 Old 03-07-2015, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post
Sorry but i don't agree with the 0db thing.

I recently replaced my Onkyo 609 with Onkyo 709.

I tried to set the sub to -3 on calibration with Audyssey, but the volume on sub was at 10 o'clock! which is ridiculous for my room size (which is not small).

Many users have reported that this sub really shows power at 2 o'clock....

So i talked with Ed from SVS and he suggested me to turn the volume on sub, so that Audyssey shows -12 or -13.

After that, you can increase the volume through the receiver to let's say -7 in order to get the sub sound louder.

The whole idea behind that is that the more power you give to the sub (volume at 1 o'clock or 2 w/e) the more output power it can give you... i don't know if i am making sense.... but it is different to let's say output 20Hz with 200Watt
and it is different to output 20Hz with 400Watt...

PS. I wish i could exchange my PB-1000 with PB-2000... My current sub placement is not great and i feel that the PB-1000 can't really fill the room nicely from where it is

You want the AVR's output on the sub channel to be near 00dB.

"but the volume on sub was at 10 o'clock!"

Whether the AVR is at 00dB with the sub at 7 o clock, or AVR at -12dB with sub at 12 o clock, the subs output will be the same, ie 75dB from the test tone.

But you need to put AVR in the middle, having -12dB means sending a weak signal to the sub, and boosting the gain a lot on the sub side.

It's like sending a signal to a pre-amp, you don't want to send too high level (clipping the DAC) or too low level (requires you boost the pre-amp level) which introduces noise

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post #1304 of 1318 Old 03-07-2015, 03:13 AM
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well both cases have reason to my eyes, but here is what Ed Mullen said to me.

"[Ed Mullen] It is always better to run more gain at the subwoofer and less gain at the AVR sub channel level. A negative AVR trim level for the subwoofer is preferred - a positive trim level should always be avoided.

Typically the lower limit on the sub channel level is -12. You felt you are not getting the best output from the sub. The best way to correct for this is the set the sub gain to max and then the AVR sub channel level to the minimum setting (usually -12) and then start slowly increasing the AVR sub channel level until you are happy with the overall sub playback level relative to the mains. "
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post #1305 of 1318 Old 03-07-2015, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rbf1138 View Post
Hm, ok. Then re-run Audessey I take it, to let it boost the subwoofer itself? Otherwise, it doesn't seem like the subwoofer is doing much. Unless that just means it's integrated well?

Also, what's the purpose of LFE only and not LFE+Main? Don't I want some subwoofer with my Pure sound, no Audessey EQ music playback?
I believe the Audyssey FAQ on AVS recommends somewhere between +/- 3.5 dB. I don't really see why it matters if it's a little more or less than that. You just don't want it close to maxed out at, I believe, +/- 12. And you might want some room for adjustment.

You definitely want LFE only. This relieves the mains from having to produce the most difficult lowest frequencies, so the midrange will improve. Make sure dynamic EQ is turned on, which gives the bass (abd treble) a boost at lower volumes.

Oh, and Audyssey is as important for music as film, at least IMO.
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post #1306 of 1318 Old 03-07-2015, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Greenwood Ave View Post
I believe the Audyssey FAQ on AVS recommends somewhere between +/- 3.5 dB. I don't really see why it matters if it's a little more or less than that. You just don't want it close to maxed out at, I believe, +/- 12. And you might want some room for adjustment.

You definitely want LFE only. This relieves the mains from having to produce the most difficult lowest frequencies, so the midrange will improve. Make sure dynamic EQ is turned on, which gives the bass (abd treble) a boost at lower volumes.

Oh, and Audyssey is as important for music as film, at least IMO.
Audyssey...ugh

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post #1307 of 1318 Old 03-07-2015, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post
well both cases have reason to my eyes, but here is what Ed Mullen said to me.

"[Ed Mullen] It is always better to run more gain at the subwoofer and less gain at the AVR sub channel level. A negative AVR trim level for the subwoofer is preferred - a positive trim level should always be avoided.

Typically the lower limit on the sub channel level is -12. You felt you are not getting the best output from the sub. The best way to correct for this is the set the sub gain to max and then the AVR sub channel level to the minimum setting (usually -12) and then start slowly increasing the AVR sub channel level until you are happy with the overall sub playback level relative to the mains. "
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Originally Posted by Greenwood Ave View Post
I believe the Audyssey FAQ on AVS recommends somewhere between +/- 3.5 dB. I don't really see why it matters if it's a little more or less than that. You just don't want it close to maxed out at, I believe, +/- 12. And you might want some room for adjustment.

You definitely want LFE only. This relieves the mains from having to produce the most difficult lowest frequencies, so the midrange will improve. Make sure dynamic EQ is turned on, which gives the bass (abd treble) a boost at lower volumes.

Oh, and Audyssey is as important for music as film, at least IMO.
Question about LFE only. I have a marantz sr6008 and my pb-1000 was delivered yesterday. I spent a couple hours earlier getting everything set up. I was able to get the volume to 0 db on the receiver by changing the volume on the sub and rerunning Audyssey multiple times. I have it set on LFE + main. When I switched it to LFE only it wouldn't recognize the sub when running Audyssey. Any ideas why?
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post #1308 of 1318 Old 03-08-2015, 01:23 AM
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when u run the audyssey calibration.... during the sub test tone, were u able to hear it?
if not, then u have connected it in the wrong input. and try to set the volume on the sub to 12 o'clock.

then try again.
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post #1309 of 1318 Old 03-08-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bmock17 View Post
Question about LFE only. I have a marantz sr6008 and my pb-1000 was delivered yesterday. I spent a couple hours earlier getting everything set up. I was able to get the volume to 0 db on the receiver by changing the volume on the sub and rerunning Audyssey multiple times. I have it set on LFE + main. When I switched it to LFE only it wouldn't recognize the sub when running Audyssey. Any ideas why?
Where is the sub gain set? Start at 2 O'Clock and maybe try 3 O,Clock if its not doing what you want.



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post #1310 of 1318 Unread Yesterday, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post
when u run the audyssey calibration.... during the sub test tone, were u able to hear it?
if not, then u have connected it in the wrong input. and try to set the volume on the sub to 12 o'clock.

then try again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post
Where is the sub gain set? Start at 2 O'Clock and maybe try 3 O,Clock if its not doing what you want.



nashou
Thanks guys for the responses. I was able to get it to LFE only. I just switched the setting after running Audyssey and it is working. This sub is pretty ridiculous; it literally rattles the walls in my room. It is not a big room; 14x12 with 8 foot ceilings but it is impressive. I had a def tech pro cinema 600 sub before this and I guess I didn't know what I was missing. My son and I were watching big hero 6 the other night and my wife came downstairs and said the floor in the kitchen was vibrating!!

I want to make sure I am understanding the set up process correctly. I ran and reran Audyssey multiple times after adjusting he volume to get the sub trim down to 0 on the receiver. The volume was barely turned up on the sub in order for me to get it to 0. After that I adjusted th volume on the to 12 o'clock. Is the the proper way to do it? I read all these posts and this was my understanding but if I am wrong I would like to do it correctly. Thoughts?
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I have the same question too. My audyssey reported -7db at 11'o clock volume position in PB1000. So if I wish to increase the sub little bit manually, should I turn the -7 to -5 or increase the volume from the back of the sub ?
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NO NO! That's a great no go...

Once you calibrate the sub with Audyssey, you never touch the volume on the actual sub again....

If you have Audyssey XT and above... then before you start the the calibration there is a wizard showing you the db of the current sub volume... it tells u to match it to 75db, ignore that and match it to 80db because i have done some tests and this is where it should be (at least on PB-1000).

after that the calibration will set your sub to - (somthing), that's ok don't worry.... you can go to the settings through your receiver and increase the sub volume from there (never touch the volume on the actual sub after calibration).

it is safe to increase it to let's say +7db max so... if the calibration gave u a -10 on the sub... change it to -3. don't go above 0db because the sub will run hot.

Ted
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Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post
it is safe to increase it to let's say +7db max so... if the calibration gave u a -10 on the sub... change it to -3. don't go above 0db because the sub will run hot.
I think running at +7 dB is running the sub hot The reason often quoted for limiting the AVR sub out to 0 dB is to prevent clipping.
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Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post
NO NO! That's a great no go...

Once you calibrate the sub with Audyssey, you never touch the volume on the actual sub again....

If you have Audyssey XT and above... then before you start the the calibration there is a wizard showing you the db of the current sub volume... it tells u to match it to 75db, ignore that and match it to 80db because i have done some tests and this is where it should be (at least on PB-1000).

after that the calibration will set your sub to - (somthing), that's ok don't worry.... you can go to the settings through your receiver and increase the sub volume from there (never touch the volume on the actual sub after calibration).

it is safe to increase it to let's say +7db max so... if the calibration gave u a -10 on the sub... change it to -3. don't go above 0db because the sub will run hot.

Ted
I had the volume on the sub set at 12 o'clock each time I ran Audyssey and every time it set the trim at -12. So should I leave it there and bring it down to -6 or -7? Or should I lower the volume on the sub and rerun Audyssey?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmock17 View Post
I had the volume on the sub set at 12 o'clock each time I ran Audyssey and every time it set the trim at -12. So should I leave it there and bring it down to -6 or -7? Or should I lower the volume on the sub and rerun Audyssey?
Is -12 the lower limit on the AVR? If so, then you should lower the sub volume until Audyssey sets a value that is within the range of adjustment (but still on the negative side). If the AVR is being set to the limit, you don't know whether or not it might really be set to -15 or something if it could be.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmock17 View Post
I had the volume on the sub set at 12 o'clock each time I ran Audyssey and every time it set the trim at -12. So should I leave it there and bring it down to -6 or -7? Or should I lower the volume on the sub and rerun Audyssey?
Set the sub to 2 O'clock and re run Audyssey. I bet it will set the db to -7 to -5 .

I have heard that you want have the most gain done in the sub than in the receiver as the receivers gain may have more distortion than the SVS. So raising the gain in the receiver after Audyssey
does its thing can actually add distortion .

I forgot who said that but it was in this sub forum somewhere

Nashou
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Originally Posted by TeDeV View Post
NO NO! That's a great no go...

Once you calibrate the sub with Audyssey, you never touch the volume on the actual sub again....

If you have Audyssey XT and above... then before you start the the calibration there is a wizard showing you the db of the current sub volume... it tells u to match it to 75db, ignore that and match it to 80db because i have done some tests and this is where it should be

Ted
In my marantz 6009 I do not see such option/ wizard...

Thanks though for your comment, I will not touch sub volume
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Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post
Set the sub to 2 O'clock and re run Audyssey. I bet it will set the db to -7 to -5
I think I'm missing something here. If he turns the sub gain up from 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock, how will that result in Audyssey also boosting the sub out level from -12 to -7? I'm thinking Audyssey would try to reduce the sub out level even further. If -12 is the lower limit (to be confirmed, because I'm not sure), this will only increase the inaccuracy in the sub setting.
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