Thoughts on Paradigm or Bowers and Wilkins subwoofers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 11-21-2012, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been looking at the HSU VTF-15 and Epik Empire subs...Do any of the Paradigm or B&W subs compare, I listen to 70percent music and Concert Blu Rays.....But I'm looking for something good...

Thanks
Rick
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post #2 of 25 Old 11-21-2012, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowhand81 View Post

I have been looking at the HSU VTF-15 and Epik Empire subs...Do any of the Paradigm or B&W subs compare, I listen to 70percent music and Concert Blu Rays.....But I'm looking for something good...
Thanks
Rick

Sure, but at 3 or more times the price. Same with Velodyne.

That's why the ID brands are so popular. Their price/performance ratio can't be beat.

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post #3 of 25 Old 11-21-2012, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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My Problem is that with HSU and Epik you can't go anywhere to hear them. And the B&W and Paridigm you can actually hear them at some retailers....But I'm thinking for what I would pay for the HSU I probably can't get anything comparable....

Rick
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post #4 of 25 Old 11-21-2012, 06:11 PM
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post #5 of 25 Old 11-21-2012, 06:13 PM
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If no one has the Empire or the VTF then surely there will be someone reasonably close with a quality internet direct subwoofer. Where do you live?
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post #6 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm in Rhode Island. What do you mean by internet direct subwoofer?

Rick
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post #7 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 06:37 AM
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I mean the companies that sell direct by shipping them to you with no middle man so you get the most for your money. Those companies include:

JTR
Seaton
SVS
HSU
Epik
Funk Audio
Powersound Audio (or is it Power Sound Audio?)
Rythmik

I'm sure I'm missing a few, all of these offer great value. If heard a ton of subs and my personal favorites are from JTR and Seaton but they are more expensive.

My point was, if someone close to you is willing to demo a sub from one of these companies you could see first hand what you get with your money when going with an internet direct company.

Good luck man. smile.gif
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post #8 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 06:41 AM
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Looks like there aren't any people in RI willing to demo, but there is a guy in New Jersey with a Seaton Submersive which is as good of a subwoofer as you can buy for any amount of money IMO.

However, what are you a few hours drive from New Jersey? My knowledge of the east coast is pretty weak. If you really want to hear an amazing subwoofer it may be worth it to you, I don't know.
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post #9 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 06:57 AM
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Would agree. The ID companies are really the way to go. I have done research and have had a couple of the middle price range subs like paradigm. The ID companies do a great job and do cut all the middle men out and makering costs so can offer some really good deals. I used to be the guy who had the tmentality that having a big name meant everything but realized I was not really getting the bang for the buck. Also some of the ID companies will do a in house trial so you can test the sub out also. Their warranties and customer service are also very good.
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post #10 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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After all the reading I've been doing I keep coming back to the HSU and maybe the Epik Empire. My biggest concern is that they won't be musical enough, and better for Movies.But price wise they are both great deals...

Rick
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post #11 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 07:21 AM
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You might want to consider dual SVS SB12-NSDs ($1,149/pr., shipped).

You'd likely give up some extension and output vs. the HSU and Rythmik subs, but you'd still get good output, extension down to ~20Hz and smoother FR at the listening position (vs. a single sub) in a pair of "tight, musical" subs.

And SVS is currently offering free return shipping. Seems like a good time to at least try 'em out.

Just my 2¢. smile.gif
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post #12 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 07:51 AM
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post #13 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowhand81 View Post

After all the reading I've been doing I keep coming back to the HSU and maybe the Epik Empire. My biggest concern is that they won't be musical enough, and better for Movies.But price wise they are both great deals...
Rick

I too was looking at upgrading my Paradigm with another Paradigm until I read on this forum about the ID companys. I recently bought a Rythmik FV15. It's powerful beyond anything I've ever heard before and it's musical as well. You can't go wrong with any Rythmik sub! And a comparable Paradigm will cost double if not more.

Jeff
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post #14 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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those sb-12's look pretty interesting.Let me ask a question If I went with 2 subs, does the 2nd sub connect off of the 1st sub? Another question is do people with dual subs ever stack them or should they always be placed around the room for better effect.. My room is 22x14 but it has large archway openings and half wall going to the large Kitchen area which is almost the same size.....with Cathedral ceilings.
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post #15 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 08:50 AM
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If I went with 2 subs, does the 2nd sub connect off of the 1st sub?
If your AVR has a single subwoofer output, you just use a Y-splitter to split the signal to both subs.
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... do people with dual subs ever stack them or should they always be placed around the room for better effect.
Yes, people do (occasionally? often?) stack their subs. Co-locating / stacking your subs usually provides a few more dBs of SPL vs. separating the subs, while placing the subs apart offers better overall FR at the listening position (LP) vs. co-located subs.

But if you're already getting a good overall FR at the LP, you may find it worthwhile to get the extra dBs from co-location vs. trying to improve on the FR.
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My room is 22x14 but it has large archway openings and half wall going to the large Kitchen area which is almost the same size.....with Cathedral ceilings.
If each room is at least 3,000 cu.ft. (22' x 14' x ~10'), that's a lot of volume to pressurize. You should probably be considering duals (right away; or, get one now and add one later on) of more powerful subs instead.
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post #16 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post


If each room is at least 3,000 cu.ft. (22' x 14' x ~10'), that's a lot of volume to pressurize. You should probably be considering duals (right away; or, get one now and add one later on) of more powerful subs instead.

So would you say the Dual sb-12's would be good for my room, or bigger duals? Keep in mind I currently have an old Infinity Bu-2 sub probaly 15 years old. Which is more boomy than anything.....

Rick
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post #17 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Slowhand81 View Post

I'm in Rhode Island. What do you mean by internet direct subwoofer?
Rick

Where in RI? I am in north providence. I have a pb12. Maybe we can find a time for you hear it

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post #18 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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W
here in RI? I am in north providence. I have a pb12. Maybe we can find a time for you hear it
Hi Brian

I'm in Greenville, not far.....Do you like the PB12? Why did you go with the single sub instead of the SB12? Is the PB and SB similiar. I see the PB12 is ported. What do you listen to more Music or Movies.....
Rick
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post #19 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 10:24 AM
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I LOOOOOVE my pb12. Actually I had a sb12 for a few months and upgraded to the pb12. Waaaay more output and extension in the pb12. It is MUCH bigger though

I am 90% movies 10% music. I couldn't be happier

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post #20 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

I LOOOOOVE my pb12. Actually I had a sb12 for a few months and upgraded to the pb12. Waaaay more output and extension in the pb12. It is MUCH bigger though
I am 90% movies 10% music. I couldn't be happier

I may contact you if I decide to go the sb or pb12's to take a listen. Would you say the PB12 is musical. How would you describe it....
Thanks for the input Brian.
Rick
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post #21 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 11:44 AM
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To be honest. I am not sure what musical means. I can not tell a difference between the SB and the Pb for music. Now for movies there is a huuuuuge difference

What size room are you looking at?

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post #22 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

To be honest. I am not sure what musical means. I can not tell a difference between the SB and the Pb for music. Now for movies there is a huuuuuge difference
What size room are you looking at?
It's about 22x14 with cathedral ceilings and it has archways that open up to the kitchen area, so it is a large room...
Rick
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post #23 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 01:05 PM
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That's pretty big. Mine is about 14x17x8 which is in an open floodplain opening up to a kitchen and dining room. And the SB was nice. But after hearing the Pb it was a whole new world. I would say the SB unless you got two of them wouldn't be enough for your space. I would actually recommend dual pb12s. I have two at my house right now although one is in a box waiting to go back. I wish I could try duals (Doug even told me two while they were in my house). But I just don't have the room

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post #24 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

That's pretty big. Mine is about 14x17x8 which is in an open floodplain opening up to a kitchen and dining room. And the SB was nice. But after hearing the Pb it was a whole new world. I would say the SB unless you got two of them wouldn't be enough for your space. I would actually recommend dual pb12s. I have two at my house right now although one is in a box waiting to go back. I wish I could try duals (Doug even told me two while they were in my house). But I just don't have the room
Brian when you were upgrading from the sb to the pb12 did you ever look at the HSU VTf-15. Just wondering how that one compares to the svs. The size of the hsu just makes me hesitate. So now I'm still between the hsu, dual sb's or the pb 12....So confusing....
Thanks,
Rick
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post #25 of 25 Old 11-22-2012, 08:32 PM
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Rick.

I THOUGHT about it hit the price and size were not doable. I had to pull the "I didn't know it was that big" card with the wife.

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