Black Friday / Holiday Budget subwoofer - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 57 Old 11-21-2012, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I am looking for a "budget" subwoofer (~<$300) for the holidays. I should mention I am a completely new to subwoofers and so I took a look at two big budget subwoofer threads (among others), but the master list is huge and I figure that some of the "midrange" subs might get bumped down to my budget. I am hoping you guys can help once again and help me narrow down the list to a few suggestions. Thanks in advance to everyone.

I mostly watch TV (75%), movies (20%), and music (5%). I just bought a Pioneer VSX-1022-K online and so it should work with that. The sources will be HTPC and PS3 if it matters. My current sub is from the Logitech Z-680, so something that size (or not giant) would be nice. Oh and it will be right next to my computer. I am not sure if it needs to magnetically shielded or not. I am certainly not an audiophile and I am not entirely sure if I will notice the difference. I thought the Z-680s sounded good enough (for a kid with a part time job) when I first bought them and never really thought about it in the past decade. I live in a single bedroom apartment (<750sq ft). The subwoofer will be in the living room and kitchen/breakfast area have an open layout (20 ft x 14.5 ft) but only the living room side needs the "theater experience" (so approx 10 ft x 14.5 ft).

I am pretty flexible about when I need it; if something good comes up over Black Friday/Cyber Monday, fine, otherwise I can wait until Christmas/new years.


Subs I am curious about as of right now:
- Energy ESW-M8 on Amazon for $300 (will this even work without an extra amp?)
- Monoprice 12 ~$144
- Dayton Audio Sub-1200
- Bic F12
- Outlaw M8
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post #2 of 57 Old 11-22-2012, 01:25 AM
 
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I'll save you a world of effort and recommend a Klipsch, RW-12d. Get this deal while you can as for all the right reasons, it's the pinnacle of what you ask.

From here, yes, it gets better but at this price point, you're not going find better.

(Oh, and if your budget will allow, buy two as doing so fills in the normal and expected sound holes in your listening environment.)

Allow me to embellish my above; at this price point, it don't get no better.
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post #3 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Sold out before I could get to it. frown.gif
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post #4 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 06:47 AM
 
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There are a few left on Amazon for $400.00 with shipping included. To me, this is still a screaming good deal when compared to other subs talked about on AVS.

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RW12D-12-inch-Reference-Subwoofer/dp/B000UVWIO0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353681840&sr=8-1&keywords=klipsch+rw-12d

FYI, on Newegg, it was mentioned more would be coming in, in about a week.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780078&Tpk=klipsch%20rw-12d

"OUT OF STOCK. ETA: 11/29/2012."

Hope the above helps.
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post #5 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 06:53 AM
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post #6 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 08:11 AM
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$112 for shipping if you order a pair of them. So $214 each basically still a good price.
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post #7 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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No warrany if anything goes wrong. Not sure how I feel about that, what is Jamo's reliability?
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post #8 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 10:04 AM
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Patience. Wait til the 29th and jump on the Klipsch at newegg.

Denon AVR4311CI
Magnepan 2.7QR's w/ MGCC3 Center
(2) Polk RT15i
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
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post #9 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 11:04 AM
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I am in the same boat... So basically ain't for Kishore or jump on Polk psw505 for 189 or polk 12" psw112 for 299.?
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post #10 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsianMan View Post

No warrany if anything goes wrong. Not sure how I feel about that, what is Jamo's reliability?

the few reviews on amazon match the reviews I've seen here - hit or miss on whether it works right out of the box. If it works people love it, but too risky for me even at $200.
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post #11 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by hardrock_121 View Post

I am in the same boat... So basically ain't for Kishore or jump on Polk psw505 for 189 or polk 12" psw112 for 299.?

The PSW505 is a great buy for $189. Forget the PSW112.

Denon AVR4311CI
Magnepan 2.7QR's w/ MGCC3 Center
(2) Polk RT15i
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Behringer NU3000 & NU4-6000 Amps
Panasonic DMP-BDP210 - Projector: BenQ W1070
Panamax M5400-PM
60" Samsung TV
WDTV Live & Minix Neo X7
Some audio history: https://skydrive.live.c...
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post #12 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

Patience. Wait til the 29th and jump on the Klipsch at newegg.

I was afraid by the time it got back in stock the price would have jumped back up but I forgot that Monday was Cyber Monday. It also seems from other threads that this Klipsch deal occurs every few months.
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post #13 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 12:56 PM
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Yeah, there's no guarantee it will be $300 when it's back in stock. They seem to go on sale at that price about once a month..

Denon AVR4311CI
Magnepan 2.7QR's w/ MGCC3 Center
(2) Polk RT15i
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Behringer NU3000 & NU4-6000 Amps
Panasonic DMP-BDP210 - Projector: BenQ W1070
Panamax M5400-PM
60" Samsung TV
WDTV Live & Minix Neo X7
Some audio history: https://skydrive.live.c...
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post #14 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 01:12 PM
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Y not go with the emp tek es1010 on sale for 300 currently
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post #15 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 02:05 PM
 
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Y not go with the emp tek es1010 on sale for 300 currently

With all due respect for the suggestion, a couple of reasons why not, the EMP Tek ES1010i is very underpowered when compared to the Klipsch, RW-12D and for the same price, the RW-12d reaches deeper than the 1010i. In my opinion, based on published data, the Klipsch, RW-12d, bar none, is the top dog of this price point; the class of the field.
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post #16 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 02:58 PM
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Hey guys I just wanted to jump in I saw the Velodyne VX-11 for 229 for 2 I was also looking for 2 budget subs this season should I get those or 2 bic v1220s??

-Ben
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post #17 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 03:03 PM
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post #18 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MarsianMan View Post

No warrany if anything goes wrong. Not sure how I feel about that, what is Jamo's reliability?

Where did you see that there's no warranty on this? Shouldn't it come with a 1 year warranty from the manufacturer unless otherwise stated?
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post #19 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by corpgator View Post

Where did you see that there's no warranty on this? Shouldn't it come with a 1 year warranty from the manufacturer unless otherwise stated?

Unauthorized dealer warranty information here
Quote:
Due to the nature of the goods sold by unauthorized dealers and their business practices, products sold by unauthorized dealers are not entitled to Jamo warranty coverage. We are using our best efforts (including this warning) to prohibit these companies from taking advantage of consumers, but these practices still exist. We urge you to use diligence when selecting a dealer to make your purchase.
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post #20 of 57 Old 11-23-2012, 09:01 PM
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Unauthorized dealer warranty information here

Thanks, do you think I should add a protection plan from square trade? It's $19 for two years. Obviously if it arrives DOA, Amazon will take care of that for me, but I'm uneasy because my last subwoofer died.
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post #21 of 57 Old 11-24-2012, 04:14 AM
 
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Thanks, do you think I should add a protection plan from square trade? It's $19 for two years. Obviously if it arrives DOA, Amazon will take care of that for me, but I'm uneasy because my last subwoofer died.

In your lifetime, how many of your appliances have failed? That will be your rate of return on investment.
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post #22 of 57 Old 11-24-2012, 09:24 AM
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Yeah, I know, but this one comes with 0 warranty at all and since most appliances fail within the first year if they're going to fail, I'm pondering it. Aside from my old subwoofer, I've had really good luck and nothing has failed on me.
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post #23 of 57 Old 11-24-2012, 09:30 AM
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19 bucks is worth it, if just for the peace of mind in my opinion. I have, I think, 3 active Squaretrade warranties that I've never used. I've also never worried about what to do If they failed.
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post #24 of 57 Old 11-24-2012, 10:53 AM
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corpgator I worry about reliability of products a lot like you. I remember when products were reliable and lasted for years. So many manufacturers make products to die in 1 to 3 years anymore. You still pay a lot for the product, but they cut corners and don't put the capacitors on the tv right so a few months later it gets loose. I saw one day at a appliance store big refurbished sale. I read a lot of online reviews before buying anything. So many products that I wanted to buy had known problems. I am glad that I stayed away from them. Stay away from refurbished items. I have had nothing but bad luck with them in the past. The new tvs compared to old tvs don't last long. none of my friends have had a lcd tv last longer then 3 years before dying no matter what brand. I don't have faith in a lot of brands and products anymore. The old stereo receivers may have been heavy and not the best looking for home decor, but at least they worked. What was your last sub corp that died? I read a lot of reviews about infinity and jbl powered subs failing. since some of these products are made in china with horrible build quality why should we have to pay such a high price tag for it? It isn't right. bring jobs to america back.
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post #25 of 57 Old 11-24-2012, 10:56 AM
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i don't believe in extended warranties either corp. I know people who bought them and the issue of the defective product was not resolved. I get asked when I buy a video game if I want to buy the protection plan if it's broke. These stores try really hard to sell me these extended warranties on things that are so cheap that I will just buy new if it breaks. I get asked to buy extended warranties for a lot of small stuff at walmart and kmart a lot.
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post #26 of 57 Old 11-24-2012, 11:02 AM
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It's called Planned Obsolescence . Some manufactures use those cheap parts, that fail sooner, simply to satisfy a "planned lifetime" for the product. Shameless capitalism at it's finest isn't it.
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post #27 of 57 Old 11-24-2012, 11:06 AM
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people pay more for onkyos higher end product integra and get played because they use some of the same parts that fail in onkyos.
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post #28 of 57 Old 11-24-2012, 12:19 PM
 
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people pay more for onkyos higher end product integra and get played because they use some of the same parts that fail in onkyos.

FWIW, today's products are obsoleted because technology is moving forward. In a sense, it's planned but we all know the technology changes are coming. When our 46", LCD TV went on the fritz, I was happy to replace it with a 60", LCD, TV. Phones, computers, receivers and television base Home Theater technology are technologically changing. Subwoofers, speakers and cables just sit there but the rest of technology waits for no man.

As we all know, a three year old computer is considered a dinosaur in technological years.
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post #29 of 57 Old 11-24-2012, 12:54 PM
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Many products fail before they truly become obsolete though, which is the result of cheap component choices in many cases, which as described in the above article is a very real dynamic to modern day manufacturing based on lifetime projections. Plus many items simply don't go obsolete based on visual aesthetic (TV's) or performance/crunching (computing), as you partially mention above, objects in which performance gains are small or based on pure subjective opinion, such as receivers/amplifiers, speakers/subs.. microwaves, refrigerators, ovens, etc, but still they fail due to deliberate design in many cases. Which is the case for deliberate planned obsolescence.

FWIW Intel's Core i5 architecture debut in late 2009, 3 years ago. In that time their have been 2 small architectural changes to the process, but they still have the same basic and efficient structure. Benchmarks put the new Ivy Bridge revision (2012) as maybe 35%+- more efficient than the Lynnfield Core i's 3 years past. GPUs which are becoming more general purpose, and thus more important in everyday computing, have also seen relatively small improvements over the last three years. Which is simply to say some years are better than others for technological jumps. And that we don't always see a doubling in (consumer product) performance every 18/24 months as a Mr. Moore implies in his oft quoted law.
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post #30 of 57 Old 11-24-2012, 01:45 PM
 
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Many products fail before they truly become obsolete though, which is the result of cheap component choices in many cases, which as described in the above article is a very real dynamic to modern day manufacturing based on lifetime projections. Plus many items simply don't go obsolete based on visual aesthetic (TV's) or performance/crunching (computing), as you partially mention above, objects in which performance gains are small or based on pure subjective opinion, such as receivers/amplifiers, speakers/subs.. microwaves, refrigerators, ovens, etc, but still they fail due to deliberate design in many cases. Which is the case for deliberate planned obsolescence.
FWIW Intel's Core i5 architecture debut in late 2009, 3 years ago. In that time their have been 2 small architectural changes to the process, but they still have the same basic and efficient structure. Benchmarks put the new Ivy Bridge revision (2012) as maybe 35%+- more efficient than the Lynnfield Core i's 3 years past. GPUs which are becoming more general purpose, and thus more important in everyday computing, have also seen relatively small improvements over the last three years. Which is simply to say some years are better than others for technological jumps. And that we don't always see a doubling in (consumer product) performance every 18/24 months as a Mr. Moore implies in his oft quoted law.

Moore's law was pertinent in the beginning but is no longer pertinent due to technology maturing. Major appliances don't fail in three of four years as I've not had a microwave oven, dishwasher, refrigerator, freezer fail on us although the microwave tube does naturally degrade and I have had washing machines wear out after many years of consistent use. It's not a perfect world and experience teaches one to respect this point. As to technology, yes, there have been great strides made over the last twenty years. But as technology matures, improvements become incremental as opposed to quantum leaps. When adjusted for inflation, products are getting cheaper and cheaper and consumers are expecting things to get cheaper and cheaper. As to "deliberate" obsolescence on the part of manufactures, there's much less than folks are willing to admit. As technology advances, products fall from manufacturing favor as plants are retooled for this years product mix, based on this years technological improvements. It would be more accurate for folks to say that change is in the wind as a TV from years ago is still viable today as are computers and AVR's; lack of true obsolescence.
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