Good buy HSU VTF 2.4 or Outlaw LFM-1EX - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 11-23-2012, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Guys:

Black Friday deal is here which one is a good deal to enjoy movies ..... room size is 1700 cubic feet

100% movies

LFM-1 EX including shipping $599
HSU VTF 2.4 including shipping $582

Thanks for your opinion
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post #2 of 18 Old 11-23-2012, 05:30 PM
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The ex is more comparable to the VTF-3.

Get the outlaw. I have one. I love it.
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post #3 of 18 Old 11-23-2012, 06:59 PM
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I asked the same question yesterday and spent hours reading posts on several sites, the EX was a no brainer at that price. My wife shook her head when I told her I had to get another one because real HT buffs run two subs! Come on tax return.
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post #4 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks guys I am going with outlaw then
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post #5 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 08:54 AM
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why not the SVS Pb12? just wondering why you're opting for the outlaw, is it only because of the price?
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post #6 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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it is bit expensive and over my budget....i don't know for the size of my room how much it would make a difference compared to outlaw EX....do you think, difference is a lot between these two?
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post #7 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 09:11 AM
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There is a difference between the two, the Outlaw is a more powerful subwoofer, see this post.
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post #8 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Great so it is good then....more powerful

my question to lamonsasa what I will miss if I did not buy SVS....
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post #9 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 09:50 AM
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post #10 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 10:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

There is a difference between the two, the Outlaw is a more powerful subwoofer, see this post.

That's true, but the power differences seem nominal to me.
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post #11 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

the outlaw is more powerful but the svs will have a more linear response and more tight bass

The SVS won't sound "tighter" than the outlaw. Tight bass is normally associated with either an exaggerated mid-bass response, or a lack of extension into the lower frequencies, that tend to rumble more they "kick". Both of these subs are somewhat comparable in the frequency response, so I'd expect them to sound the same.

If you had a sub that rolled off at 40hz, some might say it has "tighter bass" than a sub that extends down to 20hz, when playing content that reaches that low, just because the latter sub will play that deep bass and rumble more than the other sub seems to simply "kick". This type of "tight bass", as it is described, is actually not ideal for home theater use as people generally want that extension that thwarts "tight bass". In conclusion it's all just a matter of perspective, this "tight bass" or "flabby/fat/ugly/stinky bass". Also that's a lot of quotes.
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post #12 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

That's true, but the power differences seem nominal to me.

The differences are substantial. Through most of the bass range the LFM has a 3db+ lead over the PB12 in either tuning mode. For the PB12 NSD to catch up, it would need a twice the amplifier power for a 3 db gain. I am guessing it is probably not the amp holding the NSD back but SVS's limiter, but it doesn't matter since the performance penalties are the same.
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post #13 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 02:28 PM
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Wow - that's a nice chart. I wonder though - the Outlaw is not nearly as flat as the SVS - the gap in fact is quite huge. 11.2 db gap from 20hz to 63 hz (where most of the frequencies being played by the sub are) vs. the SVS which is 4.8 db. That's a whooping difference of 6.4 db's. No doubt the outlaw plays louder, but if flatness is to be taken into account - then I'd say the SVS owns the Outlaw.

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post #14 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 02:43 PM
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Subs are measured outside though, with no interference from walls and other boundaries. So while the SVS is clearly the better tuned sub by itself, as soon as you introduce one to your room that flat line turns not so flat anymore. Both would then benefit from EQ to tame things down at this point, and once the deed is done they will still rarely resemble those graphs perfectly.

They are more comparable once in their natural setting. Where flat don't got jack, and room modes can increase output and extension anyways.
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post #15 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermeslyre View Post

Subs are measured outside though, with no interference from walls and other boundaries. So while the SVS is clearly the better tuned sub by itself, as soon as you introduce one to your room that flat line turns not so flat anymore. Both would then benefit from EQ to tame things down at this point, and once the deed is done they will still rarely resemble those graphs perfectly.
They are more comparable once in their natural setting. Where flat don't got jack, and room modes can increase output and extension anyways.

What's your point then? We'd need to see the same measurements in a room - maybe the SVS all of a sudden catches up to the Outlaw (maybe not) but regardless, this 'more power' thing is really moot, don't you think? I really really don't get it - both have powerful amps - I can get both subs in my room and dial them in to the exact same level and I know for a fact neither amp would strain. The difference here is the Outlaw sub - the volume might be at say, oh 9:30 or 10:00. The SVS may be at 10:00 or 11:00 - to acheive the same 'power'. No one is going to put their subs at full volume.

So now we go back to linearity. The SVS sub should be much easier to tune in your room given the much flatter response. That is what they (SVS) are known for. I'm not saying that the Outlaw is a bad sub, and for the Black Friday price especially I'm sure it's a fantastic buy. But since flatness is the name of the game, for the same price I'd take the SVS sub. I own the SVS sub and one thing i can say, no one that hears it say "Gee, that thing doesn't have much power". But spin it anyway you want, they're both fine subs, the Outlaw is more 'powerful' which is easily taken care of by a 'volume knob' and the SVS is more linear, which is easy taken care of with EQ. I still really don't get the argument here lol. Though next time my wife freaks on how loud the PB12 - NSD is, I'll tell her "No dear, it's not loud at all, just read this thread" wink.gif

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post #16 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

What's your point then? We'd need to see the same measurements in a room - maybe the SVS all of a sudden catches up to the Outlaw (maybe not) but regardless, this 'more power' thing is really moot, don't you think? I really really don't get it - both have powerful amps - I can get both subs in my room and dial them in to the exact same level and I know for a fact neither amp would strain. The difference here is the Outlaw sub - the volume might be at say, oh 9:30 or 10:00. The SVS may be at 10:00 or 11:00 - to acheive the same 'power'. No one is going to put their subs at full volume.
So now we go back to linearity. The SVS sub should be much easier to tune in your room given the much flatter response. That is what they (SVS) are known for. I'm not saying that the Outlaw is a bad sub, and for the Black Friday price especially I'm sure it's a fantastic buy. But since flatness is the name of the game, for the same price I'd take the SVS sub. I own the SVS sub and one thing i can say, no one that hears it say "Gee, that thing doesn't have much power". But spin it anyway you want, they're both fine subs, the Outlaw is more 'powerful' which is easily taken care of by a 'volume knob' and the SVS is more linear, which is easy taken care of with EQ. I still really don't get the argument here lol. Though next time my wife freaks on how loud the PB12 - NSD is, I'll tell her "No dear, it's not loud at all, just read this thread" wink.gif

well, the SVS costs $250 more than the outlaw, so if there were not other differences then why would someone buy a pb12 over the outlaw, the pb12 is probably a higher quality product, not to mention is looks much better than the outlaw but the looks don't really matter here, i mean the svs must have another advantage..

i really dont buy the "more powerful" thing that people mention, i mean its important but i dont want more power over accuracy and linearity.

im on the verge of ordering a pb12, upgrading from an eD A2-300..
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post #17 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

What's your point then? We'd need to see the same measurements in a room - maybe the SVS all of a sudden catches up to the Outlaw (maybe not) but regardless, this 'more power' thing is really moot, don't you think? I really really don't get it - both have powerful amps - I can get both subs in my room and dial them in to the exact same level and I know for a fact neither amp would strain. The difference here is the Outlaw sub - the volume might be at say, oh 9:30 or 10:00. The SVS may be at 10:00 or 11:00 - to acheive the same 'power'. No one is going to put their subs at full volume.
So now we go back to linearity. The SVS sub should be much easier to tune in your room given the much flatter response. That is what they (SVS) are known for. I'm not saying that the Outlaw is a bad sub, and for the Black Friday price especially I'm sure it's a fantastic buy. But since flatness is the name of the game, for the same price I'd take the SVS sub. I own the SVS sub and one thing i can say, no one that hears it say "Gee, that thing doesn't have much power". But spin it anyway you want, they're both fine subs, the Outlaw is more 'powerful' which is easily taken care of by a 'volume knob' and the SVS is more linear, which is easy taken care of with EQ. I still really don't get the argument here lol. Though next time my wife freaks on how loud the PB12 - NSD is, I'll tell her "No dear, it's not loud at all, just read this thread" wink.gif

What argument? Who's spinning what? The end of my sentence up there about room modes increasing volume and extension was stated in direct opposition to the fact that the Outlaw has alittle more power and extension. You're going to get extra anyway, so who cares about a little more on paper.

And in the post above that I state they'll probably sound around the same. That's my opinion. You own the SVS and I own the Outlaw, I can see why we're bickering, but I really don't care if he buys one over the other as OP will be perfectly fine with either, and I doubt he'd notice an appreciable difference between the two anyways.
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post #18 of 18 Old 11-24-2012, 04:05 PM
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Perfect - I agree completely. That's my point. Both are fine subs. Lamonsasa - the SVS is priced higher because it is a better sub and has better quality parts (i.e. should last longer). Also, I believe the SVS sub is made in the US (not 100% sure on the amp though) - Hsu/Outlaw is made in China. So labor costs will take a chunk there as well. $769.00 delivered for the SVS - $599 for the Outlaw.

I have the both the PB-Ultra 13 and the PB12 NSD. Both are great subs, and for me they are cheaper, as I'm in Canada. SVS has a distributor in Canada so I get them shipped for $60 bucks. The Outlaw//Hsu are well over $300 shipping / duties/custom charges.

hermeslyre - when I clicked on the link provided by shadyj, one of his comments were
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

For the SPL/$, the Outlaw wins that handily. Take a look at this chart, compare the PB12 with the Outlaw LFM-1 EX. You can see the PB12 is only competitive around 20 hz, everywhere else it gets owned. The PC12 will perform almost identically to the PB12, and the LFM-1 Plus will be similar to the EX except it won't go as deep or get as loud at the deepest point of its extension.

IMO - based on those numbers, I think the Outlaw would sound terrible as compared to the SVS - and using the term 'owned' just kind of irked me. So, I responded in kind. Not trying to bash any product, but now the OP and others reading will hopefully understand that nothing gets 'owned' here. Both are fine subs. The Outlaw will need a lot more eqing then the SVS, and you pay (or should I say don't) pay for that. Out of the box the SVS will sound better without eq as it does play flatter. Out of the box the Outlaw will play louder if both volumes were to the same position. Once properly positioned and calibrated in a room, both subs will sound just fine, neither one will 'own' the other - the Outlaw will require more work to dial in. As for quality - I'll let you guys decide on that. I personally don't have a bias as most items we purchase today, especially electronics are made in China or have a vast majority of it's components made in China (I get a kick out of those discussions too) so it really doesn't matter. However, some products are better than others regardless of where they are made.

The SVS now uses a proprietary SLEDGE amp in their subs, and they also make their own drivers. Outlaw is using BASH amps (svs dropped bash because of quality issues though my PB ULTRA has the BASH amp and I've had no problems with it).

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