Quad Subwoofers in real world living room - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 50 Old 12-08-2012, 09:40 AM
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Not being a wiseguy and no disrespect intended but I am curious that you being into home theater and having the chance to build a new home, why you did not build a dedicated media room or a room that would be easier to work with?
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post #32 of 50 Old 12-08-2012, 10:17 AM
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toddRiffic,

very interesting thread. thank you for sharing your experience.

Have you played with RTA feature in REW? It is very helpful for subcrawling. I use dolly carts to move the subs around and watch real time the effect it makes at the LP.
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post #33 of 50 Old 12-08-2012, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post


It is interesting to see how different individual curves for the rear subs are, yet the summed response almost prefectly tracks the left rear. I'd never guessed this can happen.
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post #34 of 50 Old 12-08-2012, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Not being a wiseguy and no disrespect intended but I am curious that you being into home theater and having the chance to build a new home, why you did not build a dedicated media room or a room that would be easier to work with?

Budget. wink.gif
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post #35 of 50 Old 12-08-2012, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

toddRiffic,
very interesting thread. thank you for sharing your experience.
Have you played with RTA feature in REW? It is very helpful for subcrawling. I use dolly carts to move the subs around and watch real time the effect it makes at the LP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

It is interesting to see how different individual curves for the rear subs are, yet the summed response almost prefectly tracks the left rear. I'd never guessed this can happen.

Hi zheka,

I haven't tried doing RTA with a sub craw, but I have to admit it sounds like you have a great idea. The dolly carts is great too, but I guess for some one with a single sub they could also put the sub at the MLP and let the mic crawl around the room too. I'm lucky my little 10's are so light and easy to move. This afternoon I helped member bsoko2 move two of his four massive Seaton Submersives. eek.gif

Thanks for pointing out the summed response of the rear subs matches the right rear sub... I'm not sure if I made a mistake, that seems suspicious. The mic position I'm sure is a little off, but while I see a strong correlation between the rear subs summed response and the right rear subs response from this group of measurements a week ago, they are certainly not identical.

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post #36 of 50 Old 12-08-2012, 11:34 PM
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Todd,

Thanx for the help today. Re calibrated the system and it turned out damn good. Submersives are with a 80 hz crossover and with the calibration the submersives output is damn awesome. Has fantastic depth to the bass with the door closed and open so I'm as happy as a witch in a broom factory. Later next week will give REW a try and thanx for the lesson on running it. Todd was terrific in helping to move 2 of my Submersives to the rear of my Ht room and did most of the grunt work for me.

Thanx Todd - Bill
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post #37 of 50 Old 12-09-2012, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Todd,
Thanx for the help today. Re calibrated the system and it turned out damn good. Submersives are with a 80 hz crossover and with the calibration the submersives output is damn awesome. Has fantastic depth to the bass with the door closed and open so I'm as happy as a witch in a broom factory. Later next week will give REW a try and thanx for the lesson on running it. Todd was terrific in helping to move 2 of my Submersives to the rear of my Ht room and did most of the grunt work for me.
Thanx Todd - Bill

Very happy I could be of service. It was great meeting you! smile.gif

Everyone, Bill has a home theater that seems as though it was forged by Odin himself! Wow! biggrin.gif
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post #38 of 50 Old 12-18-2012, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello all,

I wanted to post a update of the quad subs at my MLP this time with EQ applied. I have toyed with the miniDSP 2x4 and will post results at a later date. For now though, I have a Anti-mode 8033s generously provided by member bsoko2 in the signal chain instead. I ran the beautifully easy and quick set up for the anti-mode then the the audyssey setup 1 measurement for my MLP only. The red line is with the anti-mode bypassed and audyssey multiEQ from my avr on. The purple line is both audyssey multiEQ and the anti-mode on. My mains were on with a 80Hz xo.

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post #39 of 50 Old 12-19-2012, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post

Budget. wink.gif
You can always work around budget issues by just telling your spouse what you're going to do. Unfortunately you must wear a motorcycle helmet around the house for awhile after having done so...
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post #40 of 50 Old 12-19-2012, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

You can always work around budget issues by just telling your spouse what you're going to do. Unfortunately you must wear a motorcycle helmet around the house for awhile after having done so...

I'm pretty happy the wife had no problem pre-wiring the living room 9 speakers and 4 subs... I could be listening to tiny cube speakers and a bass module! wink.gif
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post #41 of 50 Old 03-27-2013, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Playing around with a bit deeper extension.

Hi all I had a itch that I needed to scratch. While I love that I get 22Hz extension out of my little S10.3 subs. I really wanted to demo them against something that could dig a little deeper just to see if I was really missing out on much. I had convinced myself I wasn't, but I was still currious. I picked up a used SVS PB10-ISD locally and have done a few test and listened to a couple of movies with this sub in corner placement in my room.

This is a comparison of a REW sweep at my MLP between the Quad S10.3s and the Larger PB10.3 with 3 S10.s spread around the room. A anti-mode 8033 is handling the sub eq. We can see from this that if we are strictly looking a frequency response. The PB10 blended with S10.3's and extended the low end around 5Hz into infrasonic territory.








Here we have two waterfalls. The purple is with the quad s10.3's and the green with the PB10 taking one of the S10.3's place.









The waterfalls seem to show what I heard as difference. This PB10 was definitely going lower, but sounded a bit "slower" than the S10.3's. Please understand I'm am in now way trying to bash the SVS though. It was great fun to really FEEL the deep bass pulses in the ROTK bluray when Frodo is supposed to throw the ring into the lava in Mt. Doom. In that scene the S10.3's didn't come close.

Any and all feedback is appreciated!
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post #42 of 50 Old 03-27-2013, 02:50 PM
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Can you post your all spl chart again with 5db increments vs 10db?
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post #43 of 50 Old 03-27-2013, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Can you post your all spl chart again with 5db increments vs 10db?

No problem, I stepped out of the house, but I should be back in a hour.
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post #44 of 50 Old 03-27-2013, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's the all spl with 5dB increments. smile.gif


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post #45 of 50 Old 03-27-2013, 04:39 PM
 
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Nulls! Like little daggers in my sonic eyes. eek.gif

Looking "MUCH" better than the earlier graphs in the first post. biggrin.gif

Oh how I hate those types of beginning graphs. They have a tendency to make me sick because it means there's much work to be done. tongue.gif
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post #46 of 50 Old 03-28-2013, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks beeman, without eq or multiple subs my room would make a absolute wreck of the low end!
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post #47 of 50 Old 03-28-2013, 01:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post

Thanks beeman, without eq or multiple subs my room would make a absolute wreck of the low end!

As is my case, due to inexperience, In the end, one becomes paranoid. I'm frightened that I'm going put myself back to the beginning and have to start all over again.

I've wondered about adding another DSP to the chain on the order of either a BFD or a miniDSP to gain further physical control over the measurements.

Currently, the new course is exploring the addition of poly-fill, damping material to the cases of our subwoofers. We have two ported subwoofers with radiators as opposed to tubes that I'll be stuffing with poly-fill when it arrives come this Saturday or Monday. The expected net result is an extension of the lower frequencies by a few Hz and a reduction of interior resonances inside each of the cases; better water fall characteristics.

After stuffing the boxes with poly-fill, I'm looking to add a third poly-fill stuffed subwoofer with the expectation of further smoothing the room's acoustics (better seating for all) and the expectation of extending the lows in the same fashion your graph shows your lows being extended on the last graph posted.

A question; how noticeable was the change in your room's response by the addition of more subs in regard to the lower, <20Hz, frequencies?

Have you come up with any ideas on how to handle those two new nulls? I hate how nulls seem to appear out of nowhere.
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post #48 of 50 Old 03-28-2013, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey beeman,

No time tonight, but I'll try to be as helpful as I can tomorrow after work. smile.gif
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post #49 of 50 Old 03-29-2013, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

As is my case, due to inexperience, In the end, one becomes paranoid. I'm frightened that I'm going put myself back to the beginning and have to start all over again.

I've wondered about adding another DSP to the chain on the order of either a BFD or a miniDSP to gain further physical control over the measurements.

Currently, the new course is exploring the addition of poly-fill, damping material to the cases of our subwoofers. We have two ported subwoofers with radiators as opposed to tubes that I'll be stuffing with poly-fill when it arrives come this Saturday or Monday. The expected net result is an extension of the lower frequencies by a few Hz and a reduction of interior resonances inside each of the cases; better water fall characteristics.

After stuffing the boxes with poly-fill, I'm looking to add a third poly-fill stuffed subwoofer with the expectation of further smoothing the room's acoustics (better seating for all) and the expectation of extending the lows in the same fashion your graph shows your lows being extended on the last graph posted.

A question; how noticeable was the change in your room's response by the addition of more subs in regard to the lower, <20Hz, frequencies?

Have you come up with any ideas on how to handle those two new nulls? I hate how nulls seem to appear out of nowhere.

Hey BeeMan,

I can confirm that the miniDSP is powerful tool that has a bit of a learning curve for sure. I haven't messed with it very much since I started using the anti-mode 8033 because that thing is dirt simple to use. smile.gif I will say that both make measurable improvements that the low level Audyssey correction in my Denon 1909 simply doesn't do.

Good luck with the stuffing, I always grabbed a ton of it to stuff in my diy subs long ago in my car audio days.

My S10.3's had zero change <20Hz going from one to dual to quad because they simply do not play that low if that is what you are asking? With multiples and EQ though, I'm able to get the <25Hz they are rated to though.

Now, If your'e asking about substituting the SVS sub for one of the S10.3's. It's the only one playing <22Hz so when it comes to that and below, It's still like it's the only sub in the room I guess.

I checked and most of that narrow null around 66Hz was because I had the REW sweep (left channel signal) being processed through the avr in prologic mode as opposed to running the signal in stereo. I usually use a tripod in my MLP, but I'm not super disciplined about the mic being in the exact dead on location. The center of my vaulted ceiling is lined up with the MLP, and I find small changes in placement definitely make a difference in my room.

Still I will say I wouldn't trade my subs for the single biggest baddest sub out there. In spite of the whole 80Hz bass being non directional thing, I still tell a huge difference with multiple subs. To me that's the way they really disappear and the source of the bass is undetectable to the point where it seems to come from where ever the upper frequencies correspond to it. smile.gif
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post #50 of 50 Old 03-29-2013, 08:51 PM
 
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Wishing you luck with figuring out a solution.
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