Quad Subwoofers in real world living room - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 50 Old 11-24-2012, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
toddRiffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 1,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Hello all,

I wanted to share my experience using quad subs in a "typical" living room. I really got hooked on the idea when I heard Floyd Toole on the Home Theater Geeks podcast and subsequently bought his book. I had experienced good results when I went from a single sub to dual subs in room that was a nice rectangle at 14'x17'x7.5' that had 5' opening in the middle of one wall. This past summer I was lucky enough to have a new home built that wife and I really like with a open layout for the kitchen and living room area which is basically a very challenging room that many of us without a dedicated/sealed HT room are forced to deal with.


hamiltonSpeakerLayout.jpg


I decided to have the living room prewired for 9.4 for possible future expansion and picked up two more of my favorite subs. The quad energy S10.3's are currently located in the corners of the back of the room and L&R of the TV to the inside of the mains.


4subs.jpg


We can see that I'm dealing with a vaulted ceiling and opening to kitchen and beyond along with a opening to a hallway that rules out 4 corner sub placement.


P1010972.jpg


I split the sub out from a Denon avr-1909 to a miniDSP 2x4 then to the quads unprocessed by the miniDSP for now. We see in this REW measurement that quad subs didn't perform a miracle but did help. There's still a null around 50Hz but not quite as bad.


mlpsinglevsquad.jpg


I remember Mr. Toole on the podcast mentioning something about a subwoofer installed in the ceiling so it could be in the middle of the room and decided to measure a single sub in the middle of the living room and it really smoothed out the response much like I would expect it to in a sealed room.

submiddleoftheroomandmains.jpg


Thanks everyone for looking at my unfinished quad sub experiment. I plan on doing more with miniDSP and REW in the future. Any comments, suggestions or questions are appreciated.
toddRiffic is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 50 Old 11-24-2012, 02:10 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
That's kind of you to take your time and post your very interesting results. I like the null fill and what happens, simply by moving a sub to the middle of the room.
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #3 of 50 Old 11-24-2012, 02:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bsoko2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 4,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Move the seat out from the wall. Place the sub that is next to the opening behind the seat "nearfeild".
bsoko2 is offline  
post #4 of 50 Old 11-24-2012, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
toddRiffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 1,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Thanks BeeMan,

I plan on posting more as I learn more and time goes by. I actually have a ton of REW measurements. After I measured a sub in the middle of the room, I told my wife I was putting one in the ceiling someday to her disapproval. smile.gif
toddRiffic is offline  
post #5 of 50 Old 11-24-2012, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
toddRiffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 1,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Move the seat out from the wall. Place the sub that is next to the opening behind the seat "nearfeild".

Thanks bsoko,

I really wanted the furniture out into the room, but my wife argues that it would be wasted space. I did take one subs and try it nearfield behind the MLP and it measured well but I found it reminded me of the old days of car audio subs booming. I found it to distracting and quickly gave up on it. I'm not unwilling to try it again though if I can get a good blend where it's not a distaction. smile.gif
toddRiffic is offline  
post #6 of 50 Old 11-24-2012, 02:36 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post

Thanks BeeMan,
I plan on posting more as I learn more and time goes by. I actually have a ton of REW measurements. After I measured a sub in the middle of the room, I told my wife I was putting one in the ceiling someday to her disapproval. smile.gif

Can't live with them, don't want to live without them. tongue.gif

It's always interesting to see how everybody deals with subwoofer readings.
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #7 of 50 Old 11-24-2012, 02:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gtpsuper24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Can those rear subwoofer be moved away from the corners? Corner loading can give you more output but at the expensive of a smoother freq response. I think if you can move them around just a few feet to one side or the other it might bump that null up some or take care of it totally.
gtpsuper24 is offline  
post #8 of 50 Old 11-24-2012, 02:41 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post

Thanks bsoko,
I really wanted the furniture out into the room, but my wife argues that it would be wasted space. I did take one subs and try it nearfield behind the MLP and it measured well but I found it reminded me of the old days of car audio subs booming. I found it to distracting and quickly gave up on it. I'm not unwilling to try it again though if I can get a good blend where it's not a distaction. smile.gif

Try adding an Anti-Mode, 8033S II to analyze and EQ your bass. I just put one on order yesterday; $450.00 delivered.

One hooks up and runs the Anti-Mode, then runs Audyssey on top of the Anti-Mode settings and then a custom adjustment to flavor at the main listening position with a sound meter.
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #9 of 50 Old 11-24-2012, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
toddRiffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 1,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Can those rear subwoofer be moved away from the corners? Corner loading can give you more output but at the expensive of a smoother freq response. I think if you can move them around just a few feet to one side or the other it might bump that null up some or take care of it totally.

This mad me realize I don't think I tried the rear subs on the quarter lines on the wall, so I moved that couch real quick did a measurement with REW. The green line is with the rear subs in the corners and the couch against the wall, the purple line is with out from the wall a couple feet and the rear subs a little over 4' out of the corners along the rear wall.

quadcornersvsquartelines4rearsubs.jpg
toddRiffic is offline  
post #10 of 50 Old 11-24-2012, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
toddRiffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 1,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Try adding an Anti-Mode, 8033S II to analyze and EQ your bass. I just put one on order yesterday; $450.00 delivered.
One hooks up and runs the Anti-Mode, then runs Audyssey on top of the Anti-Mode settings and then a custom adjustment to flavor at the main listening position with a sound meter.

I'm on a new gear diet for a bit, so I'll need to explore miniDSP first. But I would love to see some before and after measurements when you get yours BeeMan. smile.gif
toddRiffic is offline  
post #11 of 50 Old 11-25-2012, 12:09 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post

I'm on a new gear diet for a bit, so I'll need to explore miniDSP first. But I would love to see some before and after measurements when you get yours BeeMan. smile.gif

I hate being a guinea pig. Tonight I downloaded REW and I'll start the learning curve in the morning. As to a "miniDSP" first, go with the real deal as staying at home is not a vacation. My online research showed me that the Anti-Mode, 8033S II was the real deal and anything less expensive was a waste of time and anything more was really, really expensive and one didn't get additional benefit.
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #12 of 50 Old 11-25-2012, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
toddRiffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 1,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
For my room placing the rear subs out from the corners on the quarter lines didn't seem to be a huge improvement, but I also measured a single sub behind the MLP on the center of the wall. The blue line shows the rear sub along with the two subs in the front of the room. The purple line is the response with the rear sub only. While it surprises me how effective this is giving the rooms open nature, I find the nearfield placement a little too distracting. I played a few scenes from INCEPTION and the tactile sensation of the gunshots was pretty fun but unnatural to me.


submiddleofrearwall.jpg
toddRiffic is offline  
post #13 of 50 Old 11-25-2012, 11:38 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
So I can properly use REW, today I ordered up an Omni Microphone.

And a phantom power supply with USB capability which comes with cables to connect everything. This stuff gets expensive fast. eek.gif

The table top microphone stand has been ordered.

Once everything arrives and is operationally assembled, I'll finally be able to see the acoustics of our Home Theater room.

...................cool.gif

-
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #14 of 50 Old 12-01-2012, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
toddRiffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 1,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Hello all it wanted to share my most recent measurements I did today. My subs crossover to the mains at 80Hz, so the issues over that are not the subs fault.

This is my front left and right subs that are located on the 25% lines of the front wall. They neither alone or together have good response without EQ at my MLP.




Corner placement of the two subs on the back wall of the room measures much better at the MLP (yellow line), and the green line with all four subs going looks really good for no EQ in non-symmetrical living room. smile.gif


toddRiffic is offline  
post #15 of 50 Old 12-01-2012, 06:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

So I can properly use REW, today I ordered up an Omni Microphone.

And a phantom power supply with USB capability which comes with cables to connect everything. This stuff gets expensive fast. eek.gif

The table top microphone stand has been ordered.

Once everything arrives and is operationally assembled, I'll finally be able to see the acoustics of our Home Theater room.

...................cool.gif

-

You got the Omnimic to use REW? Oh, looking at the link that is not the Omnimic, just the EMM6. Not the same thing. I just got my Omnimic smile.gif Nice the newest version can interface with the MiniDSP. I'd like to play with one of the AntiModes, too in any case.

lovinthehd is online now  
post #16 of 50 Old 12-01-2012, 09:38 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

You got the Omnimic to use REW? Oh, looking at the link that is not the Omnimic, just the EMM6. Not the same thing. I just got my Omnimic smile.gif Nice the newest version can interface with the MiniDSP. I'd like to play with one of the AntiModes, too in any case.

My understanding, "OmniMic" is short for Omnidirectional Microphone which the EMM6 is. Sorry if my use of the term confuses people.
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #17 of 50 Old 12-02-2012, 11:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

You got the Omnimic to use REW? Oh, looking at the link that is not the Omnimic, just the EMM6. Not the same thing. I just got my Omnimic smile.gif Nice the newest version can interface with the MiniDSP. I'd like to play with one of the AntiModes, too in any case.

My understanding, "OmniMic" is short for Omnidirectional Microphone which the EMM6 is. Sorry if my use of the term confuses people.

It's confusing in that the same provider offers the "Omnimic" measurement system. Wouldn't be much use to measure audio in a room with a directional mic I don't think wink.gif

lovinthehd is online now  
post #18 of 50 Old 12-02-2012, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
toddRiffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 1,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Waterfall of quad subs at MLP. I previously noted that going from a single to dual subs truly made the bass omnidirectional the way that I didn't experience with a single sub. I'm finding as I watch more content (just watched PROMETHEUS and INCEPTION blurays) that it sounds like I don't have subs. What I mean is that to me in this space, the subs seem to actually disappear and the bass seems to come from any point in the room the other sounds appear to be from. smile.gif

toddRiffic is offline  
post #19 of 50 Old 12-04-2012, 11:11 AM
Senior Member
 
joeatdefinitive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post

Waterfall of quad subs at MLP. I previously noted that going from a single to dual subs truly made the bass omnidirectional the way that I didn't experience with a single sub. I'm finding as I watch more content (just watched PROMETHEUS and INCEPTION blurays) that it sounds like I don't have subs. What I mean is that to me in this space, the subs seem to actually disappear and the bass seems to come from any point in the room the other sounds appear to be from. smile.gif
Hey Todd, I am SO glad you are doing this! When you describe that the subs seem to disappear, and the bass seems more omni-directional when you use multiple subs, you are describing exactly what makes them so cool. People think "Oh, I don't need all that bass". Heck, it is not that you get more bass, but that it is smoother and better distributed throughout the room. That seamless blend between speakers and subs is exactly what you want. Keep me informed as your cool experiment goes on, OK? Best, Joe
joeatdefinitive is offline  
post #20 of 50 Old 12-07-2012, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
toddRiffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 1,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Thanks for responding Joe. Yeah, for me its all about how it sounds. Most people are surprised to hear that I don't like to listen at high volumes. I know you came from a sub background, please let me know if you have any suggestions for test to run or demo material. smile.gif
toddRiffic is offline  
post #21 of 50 Old 12-07-2012, 08:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
spyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 40
I also have 4 subs: dual HSU VTF-3HO's plus Turbos, (one is in the left most corner and the other is about 10 out along the front wall).

My 3rd sub is an SVS 20-39PCi placed next to the right VTF-3HO + Turbo. That location gets virtually no boundary reinforcement.

My fourth sub is an original ported HSU MBM-12 placed along the left front wall as close to the couch as I can manage.

I don't have any measuring equipment, but let me tell you, everyone whose heard my system walks out shaking their heads.

An Anti Mode Dual Core would be nice but I can wait till they don't cost an arm and a leg.

Just to give you an idea, with my system cranked up, the entire living room floor is shaking.
spyboy is offline  
post #22 of 50 Old 12-07-2012, 09:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 101
I have a large room with a single VTF-15H and will be building 4 more 15" subs in a similar size ported box so I can do exactly what you are doing now (so 5 subs total). More sources is always better smile.gif I love that you are taking the time to measure the room and make adjustments with your subs, this makes all the difference. I am eyeing the new minidsp mic to use with REW, and I will be using a Behringer iNuke3KDSP amp that has DSP/EQ built in. Which mic are you using with REW?

I have also read up on theories from Dr. Geddes as well and some of his ideas are interesting on mixing subwoofers in the room.
ack_bk is offline  
post #23 of 50 Old 12-07-2012, 12:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Just remember that Dr. Geddes system is music first, however the theory applies to HT as well smile.gif
spyboy is offline  
post #24 of 50 Old 12-07-2012, 12:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Just remember that Dr. Geddes system is music first, however the theory applies to HT as well smile.gif

For sure. I am looking for reference level at the seating position and strong response down to about 17hz or so with room gain. I have tried incorporating my PA-150 with the VTF-15H but once you get past 40hz or so, the Hsu overpowers it.... Which is why I am going DIY. Don't want to spend $3K on more Hsu subs.. The PA-150 will need to be sold or gifted smile.gif
ack_bk is offline  
post #25 of 50 Old 12-07-2012, 12:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

For sure. I am looking for reference level at the seating position and strong response down to about 17hz or so with room gain. I have tried incorporating my PA-150 with the VTF-15H but once you get past 40hz or so, the Hsu overpowers it.... Which is why I am going DIY. Don't want to spend $3K on more Hsu subs.. The PA-150 will need to be sold or gifted smile.gif

I attended the recent get-to-gether in Pennsylvania. There is a large thread about it. Lots of listening at Reference Level. After a while people had to use ear plugs. Some attendees had ear pain the day after. Sustained listening at 82 db will cause discomfort and eventually lead to hearing damage.

There is another thread about high volumes and hearing damage.

I know that the peaks are transient in nature, but please be careful listening at Reference Level. Maybe your one of the lucky ones who regularly listen at Reference Level without any apparent hearing damage.
spyboy is offline  
post #26 of 50 Old 12-07-2012, 12:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

I attended the recent get-to-gether in Pennsylvania. There is a large thread about it. Lots of listening at Reference Level. After a while people had to use ear plugs. Some attendees had ear pain the day after. Sustained listening at 82 db will cause discomfort and eventually lead to hearing damage.
There is another thread about high volumes and hearing damage.
I know that the peaks are transient in nature, but please be careful listening at Reference Level. Maybe your one of the lucky ones who regularly listen at Reference Level without any apparent hearing damage.

Well, I am talking reference level with peaks, and not all the time. Just when I want to smile.gif

The problem for me is the size of my room. If you consider the open floor-plan (it opens to other rooms) we are talking close to 6400 cu sq ft. I love my VTF-15H, but one of them is not enough and I can build 4 15" subwoofers (including an amp with DSP/EQ) for around $1K that are tuned to 18hz (not factoring in room gain). Having multiple sources are going to fill the room much better at any level, and I have some placement flexibility with such a large room so can experiment with different locations.
ack_bk is offline  
post #27 of 50 Old 12-07-2012, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
toddRiffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 1,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I have a large room with a single VTF-15H and will be building 4 more 15" subs in a similar size ported box so I can do exactly what you are doing now (so 5 subs total). More sources is always better smile.gif I love that you are taking the time to measure the room and make adjustments with your subs, this makes all the difference. I am eyeing the new minidsp mic to use with REW, and I will be using a Behringer iNuke3KDSP amp that has DSP/EQ built in. Which mic are you using with REW?
I have also read up on theories from Dr. Geddes as well and some of his ideas are interesting on mixing subwoofers in the room.

Thanks ack_bk,

Five 15's should be very potent to say the least, best of luck on your DIY build. I noticed miniDSP emailed me about their new mic, and I'm very tempted. Please let me know if you get one. I've read very little about the Geddes method, I believe it's optimized for 3 subs as I recall. I'm using the radio shack digital spl meter with rew. It seems to do just fine for sub 1K measurements according to this info from Realtraps. Still it would be nice to measure higher with miniDSP mic, but of course it wouldn't apply to what I'm doing here. smile.gif
toddRiffic is offline  
post #28 of 50 Old 12-07-2012, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
toddRiffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 1,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

I also have 4 subs: dual HSU VTF-3HO's plus Turbos, (one is in the left most corner and the other is about 10 out along the front wall).
My 3rd sub is an SVS 20-39PCi placed next to the right VTF-3HO + Turbo. That location gets virtually no boundary reinforcement.
My fourth sub is an original ported HSU MBM-12 placed along the left front wall as close to the couch as I can manage.
I don't have any measuring equipment, but let me tell you, everyone whose heard my system walks out shaking their heads.
An Anti Mode Dual Core would be nice but I can wait till they don't cost an arm and a leg.
Just to give you an idea, with my system cranked up, the entire living room floor is shaking.

Hi spyboy,

I'm quite sure you can shake your whole room with those subs. smile.gif With all that great equipment, I think you owe it to yourself to give measuring your system a try... it's fun! wink.gif
toddRiffic is offline  
post #29 of 50 Old 12-07-2012, 07:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mark Seaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 5,976
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post

Hello all it wanted to share my most recent measurements I did today. My subs crossover to the mains at 80Hz, so the issues over that are not the subs fault.

This is my front left and right subs that are located on the 25% lines of the front wall. They neither alone or together have good response without EQ at my MLP.




Corner placement of the two subs on the back wall of the room measures much better at the MLP (yellow line), and the green line with all four subs going looks really good for no EQ in non-symmetrical living room. smile.gif



Thank you for posting your experiments and experiences for others to read.

Your two graphs above also show clearly how multiple subwoofers alone to not guarantee great results unless they are in the right spot! You mentioned you have the subwoofers connected to a MiniDSP. With the subwoofer locations from the last measurement you are looking pretty good, and should look a little closer as to what you can do with the MiniDSP from there. To minimize tail chasing, I'd recommend you collect 7 measurements. First set all of the subwoofers at the same gain setting on their volume dial, with the crossover bypassed or turned to max and any other adjustments zeroed. Double check each output of the MiniDSP is set the same. Disconnect or turn off the main speakers.

Now mute or turn on/off each subwoofer individually to get 4 measurements at your listening position. Set the vertical scale so we can see 5dB/division. Closing unused measurements will shrink the legend of the graph. Now without adjusting any levels nor moving the microphone, turn on both front subwoofers and measure the result. Turn the front off now measure only the 2 rear subs in the same manner. Now turn on all 4 subwoofers for a final measurement.

Overlay these measurements and label them so we can see how they are combining and it will be possible to see if some adjustments with delay or EQ can help things even further. That said, it looks like you found a pretty good blend for a starting point.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
Mark Seaton is offline  
post #30 of 50 Old 12-08-2012, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
toddRiffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 1,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Thanks for the suggestion Mr. Seaton.

I believe I followed your instructions. I double checked that these were taken as they were last time with no eq at all, crossovers on the sub were bipassed, miniDSP is only acting as a splitter ect. The difference is that this is subs only where last time it's was the subs plus mains with a 80Hz crossover and my my tripod is on the couch in the MLP, but I do no guarantee that it is dead on to where it was last time and we know if I was in a lab environment that would be cause for a beating. smile.gif

This is a bit hard to read, please let me know if you would like me to separate them.




This is my graph format from last week for reference.





Thanks so much for your help, I'm off to meet up with bsoko2, I hope he takes it easy easy on me with those quad Submersive HP subs. eek.gif
toddRiffic is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off