Please help decide on a new SVS PB13-Ultra or SB13-Ultra, or a Hsu VTF-15H - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 11-29-2012, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is my current setup:

Denon AVR-3310 powering 2 rear surrounds in a 7.2 setup. The other 5 channels are powered by the Emotiva XPA-5. I have Martinlogan Motion 12's for fronts and a motion 8 center. Motion 4's are my 2 surrounds. I have a dual sub setup with 2 Emotiva Ultra 12's.

The HT is in a large open basement room. It is carpeted over concrete floors. The main HT room is approximately 22' X 28' with a fairly high ceiling. The back opening room is another 22' back.

Please help me make a good decision. Music listening is as important as good low bass. The Ultra12's sound good for music, but is obviously lacking for low bass in movies.

My options:
1. Add 1 SVS PB13-Ultra or SB13-Ultra
2. Add 1 or 2 Hsu VTF-15H


You can see by the picture below that placement is an issue right now.


Please help!

Some pictures for perspective...



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post #2 of 32 Old 11-29-2012, 12:39 PM
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Of those options, I'd go with dual VTF-15Hs. That's a huge room, so I'd write off the SB13 right off the bat. The PB13U is a great sub (I own one), but I wager dual VTF 15s would have a better shot filling that space.
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post #3 of 32 Old 11-29-2012, 12:45 PM
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^^^^what he said...no way one sub is going to fill that room with authority. if you are after just to have bass present than i would opt for the pb13-u or like mine the pc13-u which fits in tighter spaces than the pb.

edit: beautiful rec room btw..

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post #4 of 32 Old 11-29-2012, 12:45 PM
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I own a Vtf 15h so maybe I am a little biased but I would go that route with a couple . Wow, that's a lot of open space you got there.

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post #5 of 32 Old 11-29-2012, 12:53 PM
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i would say dual 15's and yes that room is beautiful!

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post #6 of 32 Old 11-29-2012, 01:06 PM
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Actually, the SVS has about the same output as dual Hsu's and can dig deeper. I would get dual Rhytmik subs myself, near the cost of the SVS and almost double the output of all the other choices. They are known for great sound quality as well. Maybe a Captivator is in order for the $2000 price point!
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post #7 of 32 Old 11-29-2012, 01:40 PM
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I'm with MK, for around the same price ($2,294 for black ash, shipped to "continental 47" states, don't know what happened to the 48th), dual Rythmik FV15HP's are going have the most output.

Another option, depending on your time horizon, would be to wait for Outlaw to have another sale on the LFM-1 EX for $549 shipped, and get 4 of them.

Of the options listed, especially if you are looking at the deepest frequencies, the PB (PC) 13-Ultra would get my nod. If you are not as concerned with <30HZ though, then the pair of Hsu's would outperform a single Ultra (going off of Audioholics list).

If you are most concerned with aesthetics, then the SB13 is the only small sub mentioned, but that room is much too large for the SB to pressurize.

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post #8 of 32 Old 11-29-2012, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattroatl View Post

Here is my current setup:
Denon AVR-3310 powering 2 rear surrounds in a 7.2 setup. The other 5 channels are powered by the Emotiva XPA-5. I have Martinlogan Motion 12's for fronts and a motion 8 center. Motion 4's are my 2 surrounds. I have a dual sub setup with 2 Emotiva Ultra 12's.
The HT is in a large open basement room. It is carpeted over concrete floors. The main HT room is approximately 28' X 28' with a fairly high ceiling. The back opening room is another 22' back.
Please help me make a good decision. Music listening is as important as good low bass. The Ultra12's sound good for music, but is obviously lacking for low bass in movies.
My options:
1. Add 1 SVS PB13-Ultra or SB13-Ultra
2. Add 1 or 2 Hsu VTF-15H
You can see by the picture below that placement is an issue right now.
Please help!
Some pictures for perspective...



is that room really 28' wide? looks smaller than that but it might just be the camera angle.
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post #9 of 32 Old 11-29-2012, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Diagram of floorplan and another view...





I guess I should measure the room myself when I get home, but you guys get the idea. It's a large room.

Do I get rid of the 2 Ultra12's?

In essence, I am trying to enjoy 5 star bass movies without sacrificing too much musicality. I have a substanial collection of dvd-a and sacd's, so the last thing I want to do is muddy up the low end sound. I listen to a lot of music.

I'm sure I won't be the first or last person to say this in this forum, but I want this to be my last sub purchase for a long time smile.gif.
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post #10 of 32 Old 11-29-2012, 03:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

Of those options, I'd go with dual VTF-15Hs. That's a huge room, so I'd write off the SB13 right off the bat. The PB13U is a great sub (I own one), but I wager dual VTF 15s would have a better shot filling that space.

Why would write off the SB13?
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post #11 of 32 Old 11-29-2012, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Why would write off the SB13?

Open floor plan, output.
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post #12 of 32 Old 11-29-2012, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Actually, the SVS has about the same output as dual Hsu's and can dig deeper.

OTOH, you can spread out the dual Hsu's to smooth in room response. Of course, if the OP isn't so concerned about wide area coverage, a single sub could be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I would get dual Rhytmik subs myself, near the cost of the SVS and almost double the output of all the other choices. They are known for great sound quality as well.

This would be a fantastic option as well if the budget has a little flexibility. The FV15HP is quite competitive with the PB13U in terms of output capability, and offers a lot of dB for the money. I'd expect a pair of them would do pretty well in the OP's space.
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Why would write off the SB13?

As Snowmanick and leninGHOLA indicate, the OP's space is much too large for a single SB13 to get much accomplished down low relative to the other options.
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post #13 of 32 Old 12-18-2012, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I appreciate everyone's input. After much thought and deliberation, I decided to play with the big boys. I placed an order for the Seaton Submersive HP.
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post #14 of 32 Old 12-18-2012, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattroatl View Post

I appreciate everyone's input. After much thought and deliberation, I decided to play with the big boys. I placed an order for the Seaton Submersive HP.

Even one of those is going to have a tough time in that large space. unless your just after the tactile feel rather than pressureization.

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post #15 of 32 Old 12-18-2012, 08:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattroatl View Post

I appreciate everyone's input. After much thought and deliberation, I decided to play with the big boys. I placed an order for the Seaton Submersive HP.

That's a decision where you don't have to worry about anybody posting: "You'll be sorry." tongue.gif

Did you order one or two?

Look forward to your first impression comments.
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post #16 of 32 Old 12-18-2012, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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That's a decision where you don't have to worry about anybody posting: "You'll be sorry." tongue.gif
Did you order one or two?
Look forward to your first impression comments.


I am planning on adding a second down the road if needed.
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post #17 of 32 Old 12-20-2012, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Guess which scene got the first demo? I haven't done much as setup is concerned, but the initial impressions for movies are drastic. Couch-shaking improvement over the previous setup. Just wow! Sound is a bit localized, but I'll get over it until a second unit is added down the road.

I'll have to re-watch my favorite bass flicks.
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post #18 of 32 Old 12-20-2012, 11:25 AM
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Wow, you got that sub fast. It makes your speaker look small. Or at least like it shrank. Congrats!

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post #19 of 32 Old 12-20-2012, 12:22 PM
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My vote goes to dual HSU VTF-15H.

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post #20 of 32 Old 12-20-2012, 01:52 PM
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My vote goes to dual HSU VTF-15H.

do you think he can get his money back on the submersive?
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post #21 of 32 Old 12-20-2012, 02:00 PM
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My vote goes to dual HSU VTF-15H.

I think you are a little late smile.gif
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post #22 of 32 Old 12-21-2012, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Some first impressions...

This sub digs deep! I watched scenes from WOTW, TIH, TDKR, Cloverfield, HTTYD, Pulse, and Underworld Awakening. I now know what ULF feels like and can appreciate that feeling. Oddly though, the server room scenes in Pulse was not as impactful as I remembered using the dual Emo's. TIH and HTTYD scenes are at a new level for me with the subM HP. Just unbelievable how all the 4-5 star bass movies now feel!

I also played some blu-ray concerts like the new Zeppelin, Coldplay, Chris Botti in Boston, as well as several dvd-audio discs. Musically speaking, I cannot hear much difference between the subM HP and the dual emo's that I ran before.

I have a much greater appreciation for my emo's after adding the Seaton. The subM HP definitely has added the low-end definition I was missing and looking for, so my movies with LFE have new life. The emo's are great for music and mid-bass. I have decided not to sell the Emo's for now because for the money I can get for them, I'd rather keep them and use them in another room.
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post #23 of 32 Old 12-21-2012, 08:24 AM
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are you using prog 1 or prog 2? imo, and in my room, prog 1 gives a bit more impact and musicality.
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post #24 of 32 Old 12-21-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattroatl View Post





Guess which scene got the first demo? I haven't done much as setup is concerned, but the initial impressions for movies are drastic. Couch-shaking improvement over the previous setup. Just wow! Sound is a bit localized, but I'll get over it until a second unit is added down the road.

I'll have to re-watch my favorite bass flicks.

hahah, nice picture man, she's a future heartbreaker.
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post #25 of 32 Old 12-21-2012, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattroatl View Post

Some first impressions...
This sub digs deep! I watched scenes from WOTW, TIH, TDKR, Cloverfield, HTTYD, Pulse, and Underworld Awakening. I now know what ULF feels like and can appreciate that feeling. Oddly though, the server room scenes in Pulse was not as impactful as I remembered using the dual Emo's. TIH and HTTYD scenes are at a new level for me with the subM HP. Just unbelievable how all the 4-5 star bass movies now feel!
I also played some blu-ray concerts like the new Zeppelin, Coldplay, Chris Botti in Boston, as well as several dvd-audio discs. Musically speaking, I cannot hear much difference between the subM HP and the dual emo's that I ran before.
I have a much greater appreciation for my emo's after adding the Seaton. The subM HP definitely has added the low-end definition I was missing and looking for, so my movies with LFE have new life. The emo's are great for music and mid-bass. I have decided not to sell the Emo's for now because for the money I can get for them, I'd rather keep them and use them in another room.

I have 2 Ultra 12's and recently added an Epik Legend since it was $399 w/free shipping. The Emo's are fine for 30Hz and up, but basically have nothing below 25Hz. The Ultra 12's are great for their size, but they're tiny compared to the big boys. I suggest keeping the 2 Ultra's along with the submersive. Having bass come out of 3 spots will sound much better than one, even if one digs a lot deeper.
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post #26 of 32 Old 12-21-2012, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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hahah, nice picture man, she's a future heartbreaker.

Thanks! She's daughter #4! eek.gif
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are you using prog 1 or prog 2? imo, and in my room, prog 1 gives a bit more impact and musicality.

I tried both and prefer the tightness of prog 1. The bass seemed boomier in prog 2. I like tight bass, and prog 1 seems to provide that more than prog 2. Bear in mind though that I've had this sub all of one day smile.gif.



On a side note, my ears were begging for mercy last night. I'm a -18dB to -10dB kinda guy. I don't know how some of you all listen at or closer to reference levels.
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post #27 of 32 Old 12-21-2012, 12:32 PM
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The Ultra 12's are great for their size, but they're tiny compared to the big boys. I suggest keeping the 2 Ultra's along with the submersive. Having bass come out of 3 spots will sound much better than one, even if one digs a lot deeper.
I have always read not to mix more powerful subs with less powerful ones as room correction software will limit the potential of the larger sub.

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post #28 of 32 Old 12-21-2012, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, you got that sub fast. It makes your speaker look small. Or at least like it shrank. Congrats!


Ordered Tuesday, and it arrived on Thursday (my day off). That's fast!
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post #29 of 32 Old 12-21-2012, 04:20 PM
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Thats a good looking sub! When do you plan on adding a second?

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #30 of 32 Old 12-24-2012, 11:58 AM
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I have always read not to mix more powerful subs with less powerful ones as room correction software will limit the potential of the larger sub.

Where did you read that? It's contrary to everything I've read. It can't hurt to try.
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