Subwoofer Ownership – Your Path to Satisfaction - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 689 Old 10-18-2013, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Hey pop or other mini dsp users. Did you have to turn up the gain in your sub amps when the dsp is in the signal chain? For example, my Submersives were set 3 clicks from the bottom just plugged into my Denon. Now with the dsp in between I have it like 12 clicks from the bottom. Bout 55% as opposed to 20% of gain volumes. Anyone else?

You ordered the balanced version, correct?

IIRC, the mini has a input and output voltage signal gain adjustments. Meaning, you could boost in that area if you needed too.

There is a science behind setting your gain structure propertly. I've always kept it simple and set my gains to maximize output while trying to avoid introducing any noise in the chain.

If you don't have any audible noise coming from your sibmersives, I woudn't even worry about it.

That said, this is clearly my "subjective" input. Hopefully someone with more "scientific/objective" input can weigh on on the subject. If not here, then on the miniDSP thread for sure.
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post #542 of 689 Old 10-18-2013, 12:46 PM
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Yea no noise Pop. I ended up going with the Open DRC-AN unit. Better processor, XLR in and out and you can upload FIR filters but I don't know what that is yet.

http://www.minidsp.com/products/opendrc-series/opendrc-an

http://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product%20Brief-OpenDRC-AN.pdf

I know technically lowest gain that can reach full potential is best but I have zero noise at all. I read numerous 2x4 units having noise so that is another reason I chose this unit

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post #543 of 689 Old 10-19-2013, 09:26 PM
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I bought a Klipsch KW-100 for my father's birthday back in August of 2011 when he bought himself a new Pioneer VSK-521 AVR. It was a surprise to me too because I asked the guy at Best Buy to get me the Klipsch sub that was on special thinking it was the 8" model which was the same price as the KW-100. Once we got home I hooked up everything and it really added a lot of impact compared to the cheap little home-theatre-in-a-box sub.

As with being in the process of moving and getting a used pair of Mission 702's, I tried out the KW-100 and wasn't really impressed with it. Pretty much I couldn't tell if I was hearing anything from it considering that the volume level on the sub was as high as it could go. A few months moving to my new place I saw that Future Shop had the EW-100's for a steal at $149.99! Once I hooked it up it seemed to perform very well. Though placement wasn't the best which resulted in sweet spots where the EW-100 could be heard. After consulting a few articles I decided to get a second EW-100. Checking online Future Shop had them on final clearance for $129.99! Unfortunately they sold out. Best Buy was my only hope, but they had the KW-100 for $499.99! After checking online for a place where I could find a price that could be price matched, I printed out the advert and headed to Best Buy. They price matched the KW-100 to $249.00 and I had a $20 rewards voucher so all was good. Coming home was a bit of a road trip since I needed a Y splitter cable and I knew where to get the subwoofer cable that I needed. Once I got home and got everything hooked up I started with both subs at 0 and increased them to a certain number of ticks of the volume control so that they blended in with the Mission 702's. I'm really quite impressed with the two subs. Both are positioned in the front at about 13" from the front wall and 2" from the side wall due to a couple of media shelf units that are in the front left and right corners. The rear ports are facing the side walls.
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post #544 of 689 Old 10-19-2013, 09:34 PM
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Finally got my dream sub. It sounds very good.

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post #545 of 689 Old 10-19-2013, 10:01 PM
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^also important, how does it feel?

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post #546 of 689 Old 10-19-2013, 10:15 PM
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Again, here is my list. I took delivery of my dual Power Sound Audio Triax's this past Tuesday.

BiC F12's > 1 Outlaw LFM-1 EX and 1 Outlaw LFM-1 Plus> Dual PSA XV-15's >Dual PSA XV-30's> Current subs PSA Dual Triax's.

The Triax is an incredible sub. Still in the process of tuning and moving, but early prognosis is, INSANE eek.gif

Upgrading should be out of mind for awhile, but dual Orbit Shifters have been on my mind for along time.
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post #547 of 689 Old 10-20-2013, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Yea no noise Pop. I ended up going with the Open DRC-AN unit. Better processor, XLR in and out and you can upload FIR filters but I don't know what that is yet.

http://www.minidsp.com/products/opendrc-series/opendrc-an

http://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product%20Brief-OpenDRC-AN.pdf

I know technically lowest gain that can reach full potential is best but I have zero noise at all. I read numerous 2x4 units having noise so that is another reason I chose this unit

Great choice man!
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post #548 of 689 Old 10-20-2013, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewTT View Post

Finally got my dream sub. It sounds very good.

Congrats drew! Is that the F113 or the F112? Let me know and I will update the consolidated list. Also, if you don't mind...click on your name in the third post. It will bring you directly to your original post for you to update your journey to include your most recent purchase.
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post #549 of 689 Old 10-20-2013, 01:20 PM
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Yea it's pretty cool. This is the latest. I read an article on HTS about house curves. The guy said in a nutshell play a 30 and 100hz sine wave. He said you want to get them to sound about the same loudness. So I am working with one of my 4 configurations with a low shelf curve rising 10 db from 100hz to 30 hz the flat behind that. And also applying minor cuts and boosts along the shelf.

But before that I came up with this.

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post #550 of 689 Old 10-22-2013, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Yea it's pretty cool. This is the latest. I read an article on HTS about house curves. The guy said in a nutshell play a 30 and 100hz sine wave. He said you want to get them to sound about the same loudness. So I am working with one of my 4 configurations with a low shelf curve rising 10 db from 100hz to 30 hz the flat behind that. And also applying minor cuts and boosts along the shelf.

But before that I came up with this.

Yeah, I read that post as well. Good read.
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post #551 of 689 Old 10-24-2013, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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post #552 of 689 Old 10-25-2013, 09:48 AM
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I finally completed my Dayton HO x4 DO w/ CV5000 amp. Amazing setup.
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post #553 of 689 Old 10-25-2013, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toymachyne View Post

I finally completed my Dayton HO x4 DO w/ CV5000 amp. Amazing setup.

Any pics of the build and/or the finished product? I'm consider this build as well, thanks!
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post #554 of 689 Old 10-26-2013, 01:13 PM
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Sure! Believe me I think Archea and Carp were tired of spending hours on the phone talking me off the ledge with these dual opposed 18" dayton HO sub builds as it was the first I have attempted.

I used a modified template from Guerilla's thread. But all these folks were really helpful and I owe them a big thanks. It shows how awesome our hobby is that people are willing to help others even never meeting them face to face.

Here is the cut design and finished product. I used ultra high quality 3/4" MDF and Baltic birch for structural strength and finished it off with 1/2" of fiberglass resin inlay to ensure 100% seal and resonance resistance. I had a guy that builds subs help me with the build. I also added an extra cut on the baffles to accommodate three lateral structural supports from the baffle template provided below but it might be a bit overkill... Who knows.

here is the final product (do not judge my room as I am moving and my next home will have a HT room but for now I have everything in my current living room);













(My dog is 85lbs...and my room is loaded with
4 of these things lol)


And here are both boxes in my living room next to my 55" Bravia which is dwarfed but I am an extreme music guy and not so much movie oriented but that will probably change. It has been a long journey and I still need to do a fan modification to my CV5000 to quiet it down. All in all I enjoy it very much and my house cannot handle the amount of sound that my system is capable of reproducing without the bass being boomy whatsoever (Though I've already lost all pictures hanging on my mantle within the first 15 minutes playing with it) and sounds epic doing it with superb imaging and integration with existing components.... So mission accomplished.

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post #555 of 689 Old 10-26-2013, 03:49 PM
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Awesome!!! Glad to see you like the finished product. Wow man, that is some serious bracing!!

I bet you are loving how those subs sound for music too right? cool.gif
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post #556 of 689 Old 10-26-2013, 03:52 PM
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Is there anyway to put the CV 5000 in another room? Mine has a fan mod but is still to loud to be in the room, so I put it in the laundry room next door.
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post #557 of 689 Old 10-26-2013, 03:53 PM
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Are those Pendragons with another model of Tekton speakers stacked on top?
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post #558 of 689 Old 10-26-2013, 04:24 PM
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Yes Carp I am loving the new subs. Thanks for all the help I know you are a busy man with everything and I went with the build we spoke about. Oh I forgot to mention that after I lined the inside with fiberglass resin I then sprayed bedliner coating and then packed them with 6lbs of polyfill. They are pretty non resonant and there is no way the boxes can flex. The bracing is as you put it "over engineering" but It wasn't that much trouble as everything went together like a jigsaw puzzle.

My existing system is all Pendragons but since I couldn't fit all 7.2 in the room I stacked a pair of pendragon surrounds on top of the mains in a reference speaker configuration.. Not ideal 7.2 surround setup but what I have to work with space wise & Seemed to be about the right height of a central axis for the configuration.

When I get a HT room they will be taken off of my mains and placed midway in the room for a true 7.2 configuration and my CV5000 will be placed in a rack mounted closet... I didn't realize how loud the fans would be as I have fans cooling my marantz and entertainment center and they are quiet... I think I completely understand why you went with 8 of these dayton HOs... They are terrific and very musical subs much better than my PB13U's. I would like to hear your system sometime at a subwoofer shootout. I bet yours sound insane with 8 packed in a HT room! I think though, currently, my room can hit and sustain reference levels that even Archea would approve of.... Just wish stuff would stay on my walls. I collapsed a cabinet shelf of dishes way back in my kitchen this afternoon watching Thor in my living room. I can't imagine the LFE of some systems posted in this thread .... I think I need that dedicated room soon smile.gif
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post #559 of 689 Old 10-27-2013, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toymachyne View Post

Yes Carp I am loving the new subs. Thanks for all the help I know you are a busy man with everything and I went with the build we spoke about. Oh I forgot to mention that after I lined the inside with fiberglass resin I then sprayed bedliner coating and then packed them with 6lbs of polyfill. They are pretty non resonant and there is no way the boxes can flex. The bracing is as you put it "over engineering" but It wasn't that much trouble as everything went together like a jigsaw puzzle.

My existing system is all Pendragons but since I couldn't fit all 7.2 in the room I stacked a pair of pendragon surrounds on top of the mains in a reference speaker configuration.. Not ideal 7.2 surround setup but what I have to work with space wise & Seemed to be about the right height of a central axis for the configuration.

When I get a HT room they will be taken off of my mains and placed midway in the room for a true 7.2 configuration and my CV5000 will be placed in a rack mounted closet... I didn't realize how loud the fans would be as I have fans cooling my marantz and entertainment center and they are quiet... I think I completely understand why you went with 8 of these dayton HOs... They are terrific and very musical subs much better than my PB13U's. I would like to hear your system sometime at a subwoofer shootout. I bet yours sound insane with 8 packed in a HT room! I think though, currently, my room can hit and sustain reference levels that even Archea would approve of.... Just wish stuff would stay on my walls. I collapsed a cabinet shelf of dishes way back in my kitchen this afternoon watching Thor in my living room. I can't imagine the LFE of some systems posted in this thread .... I think I need that dedicated room soon smile.gif

I'm glad you like them!! It's been a while since we talked, remember I don't have the Dayton's I have the Stereo Integrity drivers. However, what pushed me over the edge into DIY was hearing my friends dual opposed Dayton HO sub he built in my room. I knew I had to go that route because the sound quality was every bit as good as a Seaton Submersive but with more output and of course cheaper. So, I figured I'd buy Dayton's. Well, right at that time I ran across a group buy for SI drivers. I looked into the SI drivers and everyone that had heard the Dayton's and the SI's said they sounded the same, and the output was also pretty much identical so I went with the group buy SI deal.

Currently I only have 4 of the subs because Archaea is borrowing the other 4 to compare with his dual Caps. He got a really good deal on 4 very nice sealed enclosures and is trying to decide what to do (stick with caps, go all out and get 4 LMS 5400 drivers, or 4 Dayton/SI drivers).

I watched the new Star Trek movie with all 8 subs just before he took the 4 subs and then again yesterday I watched a lot of the movie again with 4 subs. 4 subs still has an amazing amount of output. I did notice that on a couple of real low heavy bass scenes there was that slight "chirping" sound which I've come to learn is the amp clipping. This is running the master volume at 5 under reference with the subs way hot and a house curve, so tons of output before this chirping sound.

So, if you ever hear the chirping sound I'm talking about that's what it is, just the CV clipping. It will probably be harder for you to clip the amp though since I assume you are running 2 drivers off of each channel of the CV? I haven't taken the time to re-wire my subs that way, I still have 4 running off of one channel. If I get around to it I want to run 2 drivers off of each channel and see how much more I can push it before I hear the amp "chirping".

If you ever plan to be in the KC area let me know, I love having people over for demo's and you could check out Archea's setup too.
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post #560 of 689 Old 10-28-2013, 12:04 PM
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I thought that TV looked tiny, like a 40" - that is a somewhat large setup if it's a 55"! biggrin.gif
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post #561 of 689 Old 10-28-2013, 03:04 PM
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Right. My mains are 14' apart... 10" drivers make everything seem dwarfed. My girlfriend thinks I should turn my subs so that you can see the 18"'s but I think it looks a little ridiculous and she commented I past that point a long time ago smile.gif
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post #562 of 689 Old 10-29-2013, 07:26 AM
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Got to do an in home demo of a mid 4 figure sub that's around 5 figures as finished. Actually I still have it sitting here. Not too shabby, although not exactly a dual opposed with LMS Ultras tongue.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #563 of 689 Old 10-29-2013, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Toy, wow! That is some impressive bracing.
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post #564 of 689 Old 10-29-2013, 10:13 AM
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Ok the satisfaction took a big leap forward yesterday! Dual 2.4kw Submersive HPs. I spent a couple weeks finding best placement with REW. I then implemented cuts with my mini dsp unit, and one 4db 15hz boost to get flat. Then ran Audyssey. At that point I am +-5db from 80-7hz. Now I don't expect reference level down at 7hz. I would guess I am reference level from 13-15hz on up. I only say this because I ran a high level sweep and was flat still all the way to 7 at 109db. I dared not try more for the sake of my rental house. Anyway I then implemented a low shelf filter I had developed first on my mini dsp before I applied my cuts and single small boost, then simply clicked bypass before I ran Audyssey so it wouldn't try and flatten it out. I am still very fresh to learning all this, and really in finding my refined bass tastes. I mean perhaps I may like a slightly different house curve, maybe a littl flatter. I will see as time goes on.

This is current response


Keep in mind I am running only two channel with a couple 18 year old JBL XPL 140 speakers. They have a 8" woofer that was just rebuilt along with a 1" and 3" high frequency driver. Decent speaker for sure. 88db, 6ohm, 500 watt max and I have them hooked up to my Sherbourn pa-7350 power amplifier (beast!).

So last night I ran the demo disc that has the Hulk, How to Train Your Dragon, Lord of the Rings, and Master and Commander cannon scenes. All I can say is WOW!!! The oooommphhh of the Submersives, the detail when called upon and the brute strength are awesome. I am wholly satisfied at this point. I could imagine some butt kickers possibly in the future to give a touch more. I love tactile and I get that now. How to train your Dragon scene with the giant dragon flapping his wing can be felt. It literally feels like the force and wind from the flap is moving through the room. I was afraid for the neighbors. I am gonna do some stand at the edge of the yard with SPL meter testing. Couple quick notes are I was testing around -8 to -12db with Audyssey Dynamic EQ on. Also I get a generous 8db room gain. smile.gif

If any tweaks to my house curve it may be making it a little less steep. I know the very General rule is to make 30 Hz and 80 Hz perceived loudness the same.

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post #565 of 689 Old 10-29-2013, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Ok the satisfaction took a big leap forward yesterday! Dual 2.4kw Submersive HPs. I spent a couple weeks finding best placement with REW. I then implemented cuts with my mini dsp unit, and one 4db 15hz boost to get flat. Then ran Audyssey. At that point I am +-5db from 80-7hz. Now I don't expect reference level down at 7hz. I would guess I am reference level from 13-15hz on up. I only say this because I ran a high level sweep and was flat still all the way to 7 at 109db. I dared not try more for the sake of my rental house. Anyway I then implemented a low shelf filter I had developed first on my mini dsp before I applied my cuts and single small boost, then simply clicked bypass before I ran Audyssey so it wouldn't try and flatten it out. I am still very fresh to learning all this, and really in finding my refined bass tastes. I mean perhaps I may like a slightly different house curve, maybe a littl flatter. I will see as time goes on.

This is current response


Keep in mind I am running only two channel with a couple 18 year old JBL XPL 140 speakers. They have a 8" woofer that was just rebuilt along with a 1" and 3" high frequency driver. Decent speaker for sure. 88db, 6ohm, 500 watt max and I have them hooked up to my Sherbourn pa-7350 power amplifier (beast!).

So last night I ran the demo disc that has the Hulk, How to Train Your Dragon, Lord of the Rings, and Master and Commander cannon scenes. All I can say is WOW!!! The oooommphhh of the Submersives, the detail when called upon and the brute strength are awesome. I am wholly satisfied at this point. I could imagine some butt kickers possibly in the future to give a touch more. I love tactile and I get that now. How to train your Dragon scene with the giant dragon flapping his wing can be felt. It literally feels like the force and wind from the flap is moving through the room. I was afraid for the neighbors. I am gonna do some stand at the edge of the yard with SPL meter testing. Couple quick notes are I was testing around -8 to -12db with Audyssey Dynamic EQ on. Also I get a generous 8db room gain. smile.gif

If any tweaks to my house curve it may be making it a little less steep. I know the very General rule is to make 30 Hz and 80 Hz perceived loudness the same.

You're doing great and learning fast.

I've tried tactile transducers in the past and I'm not a huge cm. The ultimate for additional tactile feel is....more subs.
biggrin.gif

An S2 should do nicely behind your couch.
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post #566 of 689 Old 10-29-2013, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

You're doing great and learning fast.

I've tried tactile transducers in the past and I'm not a huge cm. The ultimate for additional tactile feel is....more subs.
biggrin.gif

An S2 should do nicely behind your couch.

Yeah that would be nice and it would Blend well too with the Submersives since they have a very similar response. But I would probably end up going with dual master slave sets and double my drivers and enclosures to get 8-15's in my room. Then I can use a couple F2 Submersives up on the front wall and my two hp enclosures tucked somewhere.

I have always wondered and I know the general answer but I don't really understand. Why, again, are we not supposed to use ported and sealed together? I mean if we have proper processing and EQ then why? I mean let's say i had two Submersives on one dsp channel and then say two Captivator 2400's ported or OS's on another. EQ then separately as two teams and then make sure time delay is set correctly and the wham! You have output and extension (if small room or good room gain like mine).

Anyway I would probably end up trying a DIY sealed project next to add more. Like some skinny behind seating enclosure like you pop.

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post #567 of 689 Old 10-30-2013, 02:23 PM
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Crap, so I guess I need to get down on this:

2010 - NHT Sub10
2011 - Dual LilMike f-20's with Tempest x-2 drop ins
2011 - Dual 11hz LLT sonotubes with Tempest x-2's
2012 - RE XXX18's sealed x2
2012 - Added two JBL 4648 Cabs to the RE's
2013 - Stereo Integrity 18x8
2013 - Upcoming 6th order bandpass box with RE XXX18's
2014 - Something else....Probably

What did it take to be satisfied? Dunno, not there yet. The good news is I don't think I'll ever get there so I am comfortable with this being a lifelong journey.

What to do over again? I can't say anything I would do over again really. I have loved the journey and trying out all the different types of sub styles, being horns, large ported, sealed, etc. The 6th order bandpass upcoming is just another fun variant. only thing left really is a cool IB, tapped horn of some sort (the f-20 was FLH) and who knows what else biggrin.gif

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #568 of 689 Old 10-30-2013, 03:39 PM
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1998 - Cerwin Vega 15 inch sub - don't remember model
2002 - SVS PCI 20-39
2004 - SVS (don't remember model, it had 2 12 inch drivers and cost 900)
2008 - HSU MBM 12
2011 - Dual Ported JTR Captivators
2012 - Dual Seaton Submersives
2013 - 8 Stereo Integrity DIY sealed subs with flatpacks
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post #569 of 689 Old 10-31-2013, 08:42 PM
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Thanks popalock. It was pretty fun building these.

Dare I say it but I would like to build an entire system (mains, surrounds, center. etc). Like put some real style into them... With all these new amazing super tweeters, affordable dsp units, and high end mid drivers on the market it could be doable with the right engineered crossover. I think that's the next diy project but a ways off.
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post #570 of 689 Old 11-01-2013, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

1998 - Cerwin Vega 15 inch sub - don't remember model
2002 - SVS PCI 20-39
2004 - SVS (don't remember model, it had 2 12 inch drivers and cost 900)
2008 - HSU MBM 12
2011 - Dual Ported JTR Captivators
2012 - Dual Seaton Submersives
2013 - 8 Stereo Integrity DIY sealed subs with flatpacks
Was that the PB2, later the PB12-Plus/2, with two downfiring drivers and three vents next to the amp plate that you could plug to change the tuning point?

I have one, it was a great buy smile.gif
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