Best subwoofer pair for $1000? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 12-11-2012, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,


So I'm in a bit of a pickle, I have a $1000 budget for a dual subwoofer setup but cannot decide what would be best.

Here are my current choices:

2x LFM-1 Plus (I currently have 1 in my system, so I would just be adding another. Placement might become an issue though)

2x PB1000 or SB1000

2x RW-12D on sale. Not sure if this one would be a large step down?


My end goal is great mid-bass and moderate deep extension, around 20hz should be plenty for me as that is what my single LFM-1 is hitting near now. It just doesn't have enough midbass for my liking though in a single subwoofer setup. Also the flatter the response the better since the main seating positions are near the center of the room, hoping two flat subs will take care of most of the problems associated with that.


Appreciate any advice.
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post #2 of 17 Old 12-11-2012, 03:46 PM
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If you already have 1 LFM-1 I would suggest just adding another. You could also throw dual Epic Legends into the mix too, but I know that they are sold out at the moment.

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post #3 of 17 Old 12-11-2012, 04:32 PM
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Add another LFM, that will easily be the most powerful setup from those choices. You may also think about adding a LFM-1 EX as well. The Klipsch will give you mid bass, but not deep bass. I don't think the SVS subs will have output on the levels of the Outlaw or Klipsch subs. From your description, your situation might be remedied by near-field placement, ie an end table placement or right behind the seat. Do you have the freedom to place a sub there?
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post #4 of 17 Old 12-11-2012, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Add another LFM, that will easily be the most powerful setup from those choices. You may also think about adding a LFM-1 EX as well. The Klipsch will give you mid bass, but not deep bass. I don't think the SVS subs will have output on the levels of the Outlaw or Klipsch subs. From your description, your situation might be remedied by near-field placement, ie an end table placement or right behind the seat. Do you have the freedom to place a sub there?

I have my current LFM-1 placed next to the couch. If I went with duals I could place one next to the couch and one on either the front wall or in the rear of the room. Also how would 2x on the front wall be? The main seating position is about 8 feet from the front wall, would that be close enough for the two subs to feel the midbass?

The null in this room seems to be in the mid-bass range which is my biggest concern and I'm hoping adding another sub will remedy this problem. During movies the low-end is great but on some things the mid-bass is just lacking. Upgrading to a receiver with XT32 helped a good amount but it's still not 100% there.
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post #5 of 17 Old 12-11-2012, 09:30 PM
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It sounds like what you want is exaggerated mid bass, which is what many systems have. If you don't get satisfactory mid bass with a powerful sub right next to your seat, I would say the problem is your expectation from a flat frequency response. Have you taken measurements from your listening position? If you placed the subs up front, you would probably get more deep bass but less mid bass. What you need to do is give the bass an EQ boost from 50 hz to 80 hz, that might take care of your issue right there. What you can also do is move your LFM up front, and move this thing near your seating position, it is a mid bass module made expressly for this circumstance. If you set it up correctly it will free up both subs to concentrate on their frequency bands, this has a lot of benefits, cleaner bass overall, more headroom overall, and a punch in the chest feeling from the mid bass.
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post #6 of 17 Old 12-11-2012, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

It sounds like what you want is exaggerated mid bass, which is what many systems have. If you don't get satisfactory mid bass with a powerful sub right next to your seat, I would say the problem is your expectation from a flat frequency response. Have you taken measurements from your listening position? If you placed the subs up front, you would probably get more deep bass but less mid bass. What you need to do is give the bass an EQ boost from 50 hz to 80 hz, that might take care of your issue right there. What you can also do is move your LFM up front, and move this thing near your seating position, it is a mid bass module made expressly for this circumstance. If you set it up correctly it will free up both subs to concentrate on their frequency bands, this has a lot of benefits, cleaner bass overall, more headroom overall, and a punch in the chest feeling from the mid bass.

Hey Shady,

I got a a little bored and frustrated and rearranged some furniture which made room for the LFM-1 on the front wall between the mains, I set my crossover down to 50hz since they are pretty capable and my mid-bass is FINALLY at the point I like, it completely changed the sound of the system. Was watching the Bane / Batman fight scene in TDKR and you can feel every punch rumble through your body, pretty neat.

Now I'm just curious if I were to add another LFM-1 Plus what kind of benefits that would bring me?

I really appreciate your advice so far, helped out a good bit. Don't really want to get rid of this sub anymore, haha.

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post #7 of 17 Old 12-12-2012, 12:16 AM
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If you got another one, the benefits would depend on where you place it. If you placed it right next to the one you have now, you would gain a 6 dB increase in headroom. If you placed it in an adjacent corner, you would likely gain a flatter frequency response and also better room coverage, so you get a more even bass sound throughout the room, but only a 3 dB increase in headroom. You could also do things like place one near and the other far, so you can get different emphasis at different parts of bass.

What mains do you have, btw? Did you really set the crossover at 50, or did you set the mains down to 50 and keep the sub at 80 or higher? You have to realize that with the crossover at 50, that is a harder load on your receiver, but it is probably ok.

One thing you can do is get another sub, place them next to each mains, and raise the crossover to like 100 or 120. This ought to give you some massive mid bass, and because you have the subs right next to the speakers, you don't have to worry about bass localization where sub is drawing attention to its position.
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post #8 of 17 Old 12-12-2012, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

If you got another one, the benefits would depend on where you place it. If you placed it right next to the one you have now, you would gain a 6 dB increase in headroom. If you placed it in an adjacent corner, you would likely gain a flatter frequency response and also better room coverage, so you get a more even bass sound throughout the room, but only a 3 dB increase in headroom. You could also do things like place one near and the other far, so you can get different emphasis at different parts of bass.
What mains do you have, btw? Did you really set the crossover at 50, or did you set the mains down to 50 and keep the sub at 80 or higher? You have to realize that with the crossover at 50, that is a harder load on your receiver, but it is probably ok.
One thing you can do is get another sub, place them next to each mains, and raise the crossover to like 100 or 120. This ought to give you some massive mid bass, and because you have the subs right next to the speakers, you don't have to worry about bass localization where sub is drawing attention to its position.




The receiver is an Onkyo NR818 and the entire system is Martin Logan, mains are the EM-ESL:

http://www.martinlogan.com/electromotion/specs.php

The mains are at 50hz and the LPF on the subwoofer is set at 120hz by Audyssey, I'm bypassing the built-in crossover on the sub.

I like the idea of placing them next to the mains. The max I listen to is usually -5 below reference so more output isn't a big deal to me but more mid-bass and smoother bass should sound really awesome.
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post #9 of 17 Old 12-14-2012, 08:33 AM
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Get a second Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus...... They are on sale right now for $499 shipped, you can't beat them for that price. I have dual Pluses that I bought a year ago for $499 each shipped and I love them.

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post #10 of 17 Old 12-14-2012, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

The receiver is an Onkyo NR818 and the entire system is Martin Logan, mains are the EM-ESL:
http://www.martinlogan.com/electromotion/specs.php
The mains are at 50hz and the LPF on the subwoofer is set at 120hz by Audyssey, I'm bypassing the built-in crossover on the sub.
I like the idea of placing them next to the mains. The max I listen to is usually -5 below reference so more output isn't a big deal to me but more mid-bass and smoother bass should sound really awesome.

I highly recommend setting the crossover to 60 or 80hz. That will take a lot more load off your receiver and your speakers and let the subs do what they do best.

Also if you have the room and you want more mid bass punch. Keep one sub in the front of the room set to max extension 1 port open, and put one sub near field (within 4 feet of listening position) and have that sub set to max out put with 2 ports open...... Or I have mine 1 in front corner and one right beside me as and end table and both set to max extension with 1 port open and I'm very satisfied.

Shawn
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post #11 of 17 Old 12-14-2012, 08:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

2x RW-12D on sale. Not sure if this one would be a large step down?

My end goal is great mid-bass and moderate deep extension, around 20hz should be plenty for me as that is what my single LFM-1 is hitting near now.

---snip---

Appreciate any advice.

My recommendation, based on your above, would be to get a pair of RW-12d's and add a DSPeaker, Anti-Mode, 8033S II, to dial the pair of subwoofers in, to match your room's acoustics. Adding the Anti-Mode into the package puts you over you're $1k budget by a few dollars but gives you a complete package to help get the best out of your subs that one can.
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post #12 of 17 Old 12-14-2012, 01:21 PM
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My recommendation, based on your above, would be to get a pair of RW-12d's and add a DSPeaker, Anti-Mode, 8033S II, to dial the pair of subwoofers in, to match your room's acoustics. Adding the Anti-Mode into the package puts you over you're $1k budget by a few dollars but gives you a complete package to help get the best out of your subs that one can.

Since the OP already has an LFM-1 Plus, why not just buy a second LFM-1 Plus and adding the Anti-Mode? I'm quite positive that 2 LFM-1 Pluses would be better than 2 RW-12ds.

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post #13 of 17 Old 12-14-2012, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I've deciding on adding an LFM-1 Plus because I'm pretty happy with the current one after finding it's ideal placement finally.

Would an Anti Mode benefit me if I already have XT32?
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post #14 of 17 Old 12-14-2012, 07:09 PM
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I agree on buying a matching sub. Do you have anything to measure your room with?
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post #15 of 17 Old 12-14-2012, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree on buying a matching sub. Do you have anything to measure your room with?

Working on getting REW right now.

I have the Radioshack SPL meter, a laptop, the behringer soundcard coming in to make the connections. I think all I'm missing are some cables and I will be ready to measure? Will REW also help me see if my room treatments are in the correct locations or where I can place bass traps?
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post #16 of 17 Old 12-15-2012, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

Working on getting REW right now.
I have the Radioshack SPL meter, a laptop, the behringer soundcard coming in to make the connections. I think all I'm missing are some cables and I will be ready to measure? Will REW also help me see if my room treatments are in the correct locations or where I can place bass traps?

REW will assist with room treatments in that as you add or change room treatments, you can measure their effect.

Sounds like you are on track.
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post #17 of 17 Old 12-15-2012, 06:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Since the OP already has an LFM-1 Plus, why not just buy a second LFM-1 Plus and adding the Anti-Mode? I'm quite positive that 2 LFM-1 Pluses would be better than 2 RW-12ds.

This is what I responded to:

Quote:
So I'm in a bit of a pickle, I have a $1000 budget for a dual subwoofer setup but cannot decide what would be best.

Here are my current choices:

2x LFM-1 Plus (I currently have 1 in my system, so I would just be adding another. Placement might become an issue though)

2x PB1000 or SB1000

2x RW-12D on sale. Not sure if this one would be a large step down?

Agreed, buying a matching second sub is a better suggestion Again, out of defensiveness to my response, I responded to what the OP posted above. And in response to the OP's question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post


Would an Anti Mode benefit me if I already have XT32?

If one has XT32, I can't say that an Anti-Mode would make for an improvement. I see the Anti-Mode as an appliance that aids folks like me with an AVR that has MultEQ XT as opposed to AVR's that have XT32 installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

I have the Radioshack SPL meter, a laptop, the behringer soundcard coming in to make the connections. I think all I'm missing are some cables and I will be ready to measure? Will REW also help me see if my room treatments are in the correct locations or where I can place bass traps?

Do you have a microphone? The RTA in REW should allow you to see your room's acoustics so you can adjust room treatments and move subs to best correct for any nulls your RTA reveals..

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