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post #1 of 15 Old 12-16-2012, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I currently have Martin logan electro motion esl , ML c2 center and ml fx surrounds in a 14x26 room with the listening area at about 15 ft back. I thank have narrowed my sub choices down to ml depth I , svs an-13 ultra or possibly JL audio f 113. I will be movies 60% and music 40 %. I am looking for something that will hit hard for my space. It seems that the sb-13 ultra and jl f113 are similar other than price would I be buying just a name is the jl better. I want what ever sub to play good with my Logan's. any advice would be helpful.
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post #2 of 15 Old 12-16-2012, 03:06 PM
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Might want to consider the Rythmik FV15HP (just ordered one after a year of research), it was $1,700 shipped. I would also eliminate the Depth from that list (I have owned one), it's a great sub but not when you stack it up against a power-house like the SVS Ultra.

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post #3 of 15 Old 12-16-2012, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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@ K5/ss Thanks for for advice what was it that turned you to that one? I am new at this and honestly do not know much about it.
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post #4 of 15 Old 12-16-2012, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauly cracker View Post

I currently have Martin logan electro motion esl , ML c2 center and ml fx surrounds in a 14x26 room with the listening area at about 15 ft back. I thank have narrowed my sub choices down to ml depth I , svs an-13 ultra or possibly JL audio f 113. I will be movies 60% and music 40 %. I am looking for something that will hit hard for my space. It seems that the sb-13 ultra and jl f113 are similar other than price would I be buying just a name is the jl better. I want what ever sub to play good with my Logan's. any advice would be helpful.

The JL is considerably smaller than the SVS. If that or the fit and finish aren't important, the SVS is a good choice. The ML would not perform as well as either.

The Seaton Submersive is also worth a look.
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post #5 of 15 Old 12-16-2012, 03:59 PM
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To be perfectly honest, I don't know why I went with the Rythmik. There are allot of great performers under $2K, like I said, I did allot of research and really liked the below 20hz performance of the VF15-HP. I currently have a SVS sub that has performed flawlessly but I got the upgrade bug again and I really liked the reviews of the Rythmik. I don't know much about the Seaton but from the limited threads I have read, it performes better than the SVS and the Rythmik. It just didn't have the style that the gloss black FV15HP or the Ultra 13. December 19th can't get here fast enough:)

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post #6 of 15 Old 12-16-2012, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I did not think it was going to be a very tough choice or maybe I am just make
Ing it harder than it needs to be.
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post #7 of 15 Old 12-17-2012, 06:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pauly cracker View Post

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I did not think it was going to be a very tough choice or maybe I am just make
Ing it harder than it needs to be.

Subwoofers are the most vexing and enigmatic of the sound reproduction chain and yes, they are the most difficult to choose among the choices available.

First things first, budget. What are your personal expectations? Are they THX reference level playback? Do you simply want some rumble in your movie soundtrack and you'll be happy. Do you want to feel the bass and be gob smacked with an indelible smile? How far are you willing to push this string? At the end of the day, what are your true expectations and will your budget support these expectations? Subwoofers are a trade off between expectations and real term budget limitations.

Second, shape and size of the room playback environment; asymmetrical vs symmetrical. All of which determines how the sound waves produced are going play and get along with each other; sound quality; room acoustics.

Subwoofer placement. Two subwoofers better than one subwoofer. Two cheaper subs better than one more expensive subwoofer. Two more expensive subwoofers better than three cheaper subwoofers, so forth and so on to the extent of your budget and the ability of the room to swallow up subwoofers.

Third, playback system which deals with your ability to measure and control the acoustics of your playback environment.

Fourth, measuring gear and EQ's at your disposal to properly set the subwoofer/subwoofers you do choose to buy.

FYI, it's hard to choose because it is hard to choose.

.....................rolleyes.gif

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post #8 of 15 Old 12-17-2012, 07:51 AM
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I will say this again. I would not recommend two cheap subwoofers vs one better subwoofer. Been there, done that. One superior sub blew the 2 cheaper subs away. The problem with cheaper subwoofes is that they usually cannot extend low with authority, and adding another, or even two more will not really solve that issue.

OP, I would probably focus on the SVS out of the three subs on your list. The JL's are great subs, but you are paying for the form factor, name, etc. I would also look into Power Sound Audio as well, but knowing your budget and things like WAF, room layout, etc helps too.
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post #9 of 15 Old 12-17-2012, 07:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I will say this again. I would not recommend two cheap subwoofers vs one better subwoofer. Been there, done that. One superior sub blew the 2 cheaper subs away. The problem with cheaper subwoofes is that they usually cannot extend low with authority, and adding another, or even two more will not really solve that issue.
OP, I would probably focus on the SVS out of the three subs on your list. The JL's are great subs, but you are paying for the form factor, name, etc. I would also look into Power Sound Audio as well, but knowing your budget and things like WAF, room layout, etc helps too.

Two cheaper subs vs one more expensive sub......life has it's complications with room acoustics and bad room acoustics can kill a single good sub's reproduction capability where as the smoothed out room response of two cheaper subs, trumps one good sub. Nor can one apply a single example to the world's possibilities. It's not always about digging deeper with authority as bad acoustics are bad acoustics. That's why two good subs will kill three lesser subs and why I'm comfortable with what I post.

My questions and comments are intended to help bring the OP up to speed. Ignorance is the easiest form of bliss to destroy. Not necessarily the nicest thing to do but definitely the easiest.

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post #10 of 15 Old 12-17-2012, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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photo.JPG 98k .JPG file I do want to be able to peak towards reference levels and I do want my purchase to put a smile on my face , but I do not know if I can with my budget of about $2,000-$2,500. I currently have a klipsch rw-12 sub so I am hoping any of these choices will blow that sub out of the water. Basically I am looking for a sub that you can feel a lot when the explosions happen and when the kick drum beats you can feel the percussion in your chest , but not sound muddy or slow.
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post #11 of 15 Old 12-17-2012, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

The problem with cheaper subwoofes is that they usually cannot extend low with authority, and adding another, or even two more will not really solve that issue.
Not necessarily.
Lets assume you have two subs with the same frequency response, but the more expensive has twice the displacement limited power capacity, giving 3dB higher maximum output. Two of the less expensive subs will realize 6dB more output than one, beating the one more expensive sub, while giving the benefit of smoothing room modes as well.
The difficulty lies in finding accurate measured response charts for subs and knowing their displacement limited power. Few manufacturers provide the former, and AFAIK none provide the latter. That doesn't make the decision process easy, but it can be done.
Just be aware that where price is concerned the law of diminishing returns sets in early. If you have a $300 sub you don't need to spend $600 to get twice the displacement limited power handing, you may need to spend only $400. Conversely, a $600 sub probably won't be beat by two $300 subs, but it will with two $400 subs.

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post #12 of 15 Old 12-17-2012, 08:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauly cracker View Post

I do want to be able to peak towards reference levels and I do want my purchase to put a smile on my face , but I do not know if I can with my budget of about $2,000-$2,500. I currently have a klipsch rw-12 sub so I am hoping any of these choices will blow that sub out of the water. Basically I am looking for a sub that you can feel a lot when the explosions happen and when the kick drum beats you can feel the percussion in your chest , but not sound muddy or slow.

The waters have cleared a bit with your above.

Room size?

Based on your above, I'd look at a pair of SVS, PB12-NSD's or a pair of Hsu, ULS-15's as above these choices, the price starts to really fly.

Everything is designed to vex you. Let's see, what do I get? Let's see what the specs say. But if I go there, I get this and if I want to go there it's going cost me more. It's a modern day version of "Who's on First?"

A suggestion, depending on your room size, one might consider a new AVR with Audyssey XT32 installed like an Onkyo, TX-NR818 which will help deal with rogue room acoustics and a single higher quality sub like a SVS, SB13-Ultra. One can buy the single sub and the aforementioned AVR and still be within your stated budget. Later, when you've fiscally recovered, add a second equal sub as more monies become available.

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post #13 of 15 Old 12-17-2012, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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The avr I am looking at is the Yamaha aventor 2020 because I can get that at a huge discount.
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post #14 of 15 Old 12-17-2012, 09:35 AM
 
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The avr I am looking at is the Yamaha aventor 2020 because I can get that at a huge discount.

A consideration, the Yamaha RX-A2020, doesn't have Audyssey, MultEQ XT32 and that's a very important consideration as to integrating subs into a room's acoustics. This is where the above linked "Who's on First" routine comes in as there are so many, bewildering possibilities.

With the above in mind, a similarly priced choice that does have XT32 installed would be a Denon, AVR 4311ci.
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post #15 of 15 Old 12-17-2012, 11:57 AM
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If you can get the 2020 at a huge discount, get it. That is an awesome receiver. Theres more to life than Audyssey. It has YPAO RSC which will serve you well.

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