Subwoofer final decision.... - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 39 Old 12-30-2012, 12:11 PM
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The amp issues were more on the Legends. I replaced the amp on my Empire about a year ago under warranty, while the old amp went back to Epik never heard if they determined what had gone bad but Chad said it was rare. Nice find JDM! I didn't try the Klipsch and the Empire together, but I do use the Empire with two Infinity PSW310s in my living room. They play reasonably well together. I'd rather have three Empires. I have talked to the guy who has one in the classifieds here but right now after xmas and some dental work the budget is not cooperating at the moment....
Why in the world would you buy a used one for nearly 725 after shipping that has no warranty versus simply buying a new one?

He's asking 625. What shipping? He'd either bring it closer to where I live or I would go to his place (and hear his new sub while I'm at it), but in either case no shipping. Not sure which amp version it has either and he's a second owner, so there's that, too. There aren't any new Empires for sale at this time, though, and that'd be closer to 900-950 shipped in any case if Chad offers them again.

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post #32 of 39 Old 12-30-2012, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Why in the world would you buy a used one for nearly 725 after shipping that has no warranty versus simply buying a new one?

Because you cant buy new ones lol. I would have if they were available.
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post #33 of 39 Old 12-30-2012, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the shout out. If I might, what kind of Craig's List deal did you get? With room gain and the two 15" drivers, pretty much, on it's own, that one unit should be able to raise the roof: "Whoop!, Whoop!" Congrats on the Craig's List score.
.....................biggrin.gif
Thanks man, brand new sealed for 700, i went and picked it up so no shipping. Seemed like a fairly good deal. How do You think running the outlaw with the empire would be?
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post #34 of 39 Old 12-30-2012, 08:32 PM
 
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Thanks man, brand new sealed for 700, i went and picked it up so no shipping. Seemed like a fairly good deal. How do You think running the outlaw with the empire would be?

Brand new sealed for $700.00. eek.gif

I don't think mixing is a good idea as my understanding, properly balanced and dialed in, the system gets dragged down to the lowest common denominator as you're comparing a 600W/15" sub to a 350W/12" sub.

Good luck with trying to bring these subs together.
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post #35 of 39 Old 12-30-2012, 10:42 PM
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Thanks man, brand new sealed for 700, i went and picked it up so no shipping. Seemed like a fairly good deal. How do You think running the outlaw with the empire would be?

Brand new sealed for $700.00. eek.gif

I don't think mixing is a good idea as my understanding, properly balanced and dialed in, the system gets dragged down to the lowest common denominator as you're comparing a 600W/15" sub to a 350W/12" sub.

Good luck with trying to bring these subs together.

Well, the amp wattage is meaningless without knowing the driver sensitivity/efficiency and besides on the Empire that 600w amp is split over two 15" dual opposed drivers, then there's the ported vs sealed thing. I've been mixing sub size/types and while not optimal, still puts a big smile on the face until a better solution comes along smile.gif Still does wonder for overall bass performance...

There's also Earl Geddes take along the lines of different subs http://www.avsforum.com/t/1124011/are-three-inexpensive-subs-better-than-one-expensive-sub-dr-earl-geddes-approach

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post #36 of 39 Old 12-31-2012, 03:30 AM
 
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I've been mixing sub size/types and while not optimal, still puts a big smile on the face until a better solution comes along smile.gif

A boy's got to do what a boy's got to do. And when one doesn't have a matching pair of subs, then they have the wonderful world of conflicted subwoofer interaction. If being conflicted doesn't trouble one, who am I to worry? As to a better solution, two matching subs are better than two different subs and three matching subs are better than two matching subs.

It's all about the word "synergy."
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post #37 of 39 Old 12-31-2012, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I don't think mixing is a good idea as my understanding, properly balanced and dialed in, the system gets dragged down to the lowest common denominator as you're comparing a 600W/15" sub to a 350W/12" sub.

I would like to see someone actually do measurements to determine if it makes a difference if the subs match. I personally doubt it makes much difference.

The reason I doubt it is because two identical subs placed in non identical locations in a room will have a different frequency response. They'll effectively act as two different subs. There may actaully be advantages to having different subs. A particular sub may over or under emphasize certain frequencies. Adding a second identical one will double up the problem. Having a different sub will more likely not have the exact same issues and hence will help even out the response.

If you look at an example where sub A digs deeper and has more spl than sub B. You can counter the spl difference by turning up the volume on sub B relative to A. The difference in FR at the lower frequencies can be countered by applying a room correction curve that will boost the lower frequencies. I agree it's probably not a good idea to try to match subs where there's a huge difference, but I don't think the difference between the epik and outlaw fall into that category.
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post #38 of 39 Old 12-31-2012, 06:33 AM
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I don't think mixing is a good idea as my understanding, properly balanced and dialed in, the system gets dragged down to the lowest common denominator as you're comparing a 600W/15" sub to a 350W/12" sub.
+1. Using two subs, any two subs, together will usually sound better than either by itself. That's because two subs will be louder than one, and multiple subs smooth room modes. But because of the differences in frequency response, phase response, sensitivity and output capability, using matched subs will always work better than using mis-matched subs. The strongest chains have no weak links.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
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post #39 of 39 Old 12-31-2012, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Brand new sealed for $700.00. eek.gif
I don't think mixing is a good idea as my understanding, properly balanced and dialed in, the system gets dragged down to the lowest common denominator as you're comparing a 600W/15" sub to a 350W/12" sub.
Good luck with trying to bring these subs together.

I tried using the rw-12d with the Empire and well..... bad idea. The difference between the two is just too significant. I've haven't heard too many subs but the empire is by far the most powerful and accurate sub i've ever owned. Not to bash on the rw-12d by any means but one empire is simply on a whole new level even when comparing it to 2 or 3 rw-12d's. It sounds outstanding no matter what i throw at it, and unlike the rw-12d it can actually handle music with great accuracy especially considering its using 15 inch drivers. Maybe because its sealed? I've never owned a sealed sub before. I may or may not try mixing it with the outlaw, reason being that one empire is far more than i need/want in the room i'm using it in. I may just try and sell it. Guess the only downside of getting the empire is that my standards have risen significantly.
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