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post #1 of 39 Old 12-24-2012, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I finally sold my rw-12d's, sub-10, psw505 and sw-450 and i've narrowed it down the the outlaw Lfm-1 ex, or the plus.

I will be ordering one of these tomorrow and I'm hard pressed to believe that the Ex is worth the extra $150 based on reviews. So my question is basically which one would you guys recommend? Its going in a 11 x 13 room mostly for movies. I can spend the $649 (Which is the limit i'm setting for myself) if its really worth it but as of now i'm leaning toward the Plus, then i could spend my $150 elsewhere.

Any help is appreciated, thanks.
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post #2 of 39 Old 12-24-2012, 11:41 PM
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You save more than just 150, the shipping for the Plus is free at the moment. If you are willing to shell out for the EX, you might as well go for the Hsu VTF3, its going to be slightly cheaper at its sale right now and it is a better subwoofer.
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post #3 of 39 Old 12-24-2012, 11:49 PM
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You save more than just 150, the shipping for the Plus is free at the moment. If you are willing to shell out for the EX, you might as well go for the Hsu VTF3, its going to be slightly cheaper at its sale right now and it is a better subwoofer.

That would be my choice too (HSU) but I think he'll have to pay $99 for S/H breaking his budget limit. Unless I missed something?

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post #4 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

That would be my choice too (HSU) but I think he'll have to pay $99 for S/H breaking his budget limit. Unless I missed something?

He has to pay for shipping on the EX too, which makes it and the VTF3 nearly the same price. Only the Plus has free shipping.
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post #5 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 05:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JDM467 View Post

Any help is appreciated, thanks.

Any help?

Bad decisions, based on the cheap, do not make for good decisions. Ya know what I mean?

If one cares about quality, one knows they have to spend more then they want to and you know you want to because we both know you care.

Normally my recommendations stay within stated budget parameters but this time, based on this comment of yours: "(Which is the limit i'm setting for myself)," which tells me you have more to give to your cause, I recommend either a SVS, PB12-NSD or a Rythmik, F12.

The most flexible for a listening environment, due to the PEQ, my opinion, is the Rythmik, F12 but for overall output quality, the SVS, PB12-NSD.

You wrote: "...then i could spend my $150 elsewhere."

Based on your OP, this is the "elsewhere" regarding my recommendation and where you should spend your extra hundred and fifty bucks.

Just saying.

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post #6 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Any help?
Bad decisions, based on the cheap, do not make for good decisions. Ya know what I mean?
If one cares about quality, one knows they have to spend more then they want to and you know you want to because we both know you care.
Normally my recommendations stay within stated budget parameters but this time, based on this comment of yours: "(Which is the limit i'm setting for myself)," which tells me you have more to give to your cause, I recommend either a SVS, PB12-NSD or a Rythmik, F12.
The most flexible for a listening environment, due to the PEQ, my opinion, is the Rythmik, F12 but for overall output quality, the SVS, PB12-NSD.
You wrote: "...then i could spend my $150 elsewhere."
Based on your OP, this is the "elsewhere" regarding my recommendation and where you should spend your extra hundred and fifty bucks.
Just saying.
-

I definitely understand, i suppose the reason behind my $650 budget is taking into consideration my room size, i almost feel as though i don't really need to spend more than that for what i'm looking to get out of the sub, The PB12-NSD doesn't seem to differ much (Spec wise) from the LFM-1 Ex, i am now leaning toward the Ex. I do appreciate your input Beeman, its amazing how 1 post can change one's mind.
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post #7 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JDM467 View Post

I definitely understand, i suppose the reason behind my $650 budget is taking into consideration my room size, i almost feel as though i don't really need to spend more than that for what i'm looking to get out of the sub, The PB12-NSD doesn't seem to differ much (Spec wise) from the LFM-1 Ex, i am now leaning toward the Ex. I do appreciate your input Beeman, its amazing how 1 post can change one's mind.

JDM, the Outlaw EX is basically a clone of the VTF3 mk2. Right now with its sale price you can get the VTF3 mk4 for the same price as the EX, and the VTF3 is a better sub. Don't forget to factor in shipping, it is roughly $100 for either sub. I wouldn't wait too long on the Hsu sale, this might be the last day. I have both subs btw, although my VTF3s are mk3s.
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post #8 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 10:57 AM
 
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i suppose the reason behind my $650 budget is taking into consideration my room size, i almost feel as though i don't really need to spend more than that for what i'm looking to get out of the sub,...

What are you looking to get out of the sub?

If sticking to the $650.00 price point, one of these (SVS, SB12-NSD) should beg one's interest. Can't rightly say why but Outlaw has never grabbed my attention over offerings by SVS or Rythmik. Could be that for various reasons I'm prejudiced against down firing subs or it could be that the piano black looks so much better or it could be because at this price point, when I look at the specs and graphs, in my opinion, in this price range, for a hundred bucks more, the SVS, PB12-NSD, always rises to the top.

In the case of the smaller SB12-NSD, cost performance wise, it's comparable to the Outlaw. But due to finer performance issues, peak output and THD distortion at 20Hz, the edge goes to SVS. Personally, I prefer the form factor of the SVS, SB12-NSD.

The point of the above ramblings, ultimately, what you want or expect to get out of a sub, I would expect to be the deciding factor as at this price point, these are all close on all fronts. Don't you just love wishy-washy responses? tongue.gif

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post #9 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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My primary goal with this sub is really just extension for movies, output isnt crucial due to the room size. I went ahead an ordered an outlaw lfm plus to try and if i like it i may order a second. Correct me if im wrong but i believe outlaw has a 30 day trial period. The subs you guys have listed above i think will be better for when i begin putting together my theater for my basement. The vtf-3 seems like a great sub but i may wait to start my basement to shell out some more cash.
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post #10 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 01:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JDM467 View Post

Correct me if im wrong but i believe outlaw has a 30 day trial period.

No idea what the trial period is on any of the sub manufactures. I'm the kind of guy who does his research, makes a choice and unless at a later time and date, going for a huge upgrade, I'll die with the choice.

If your basement is in the near future, I'd buy for the basement. If the basement is a few years out, I'd buy for today and see what tomorrow brings. I'm sure you'll be happy with your decision to go with Outlaw as in my opinion, the differences are minor as opposed to holy wow!, now that's a major difference.
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post #11 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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No idea what the trial period is on any of the sub manufactures. I'm the kind of guy who does his research, makes a choice and unless at a later time and date, going for a huge upgrade, I'll die with the choice.
If your basement is in the near future, I'd buy for the basement. If the basement is a few years out, I'd buy for today and see what tomorrow brings. I'm sure you'll be happy with your decision to go with Outlaw as in my opinion, the differences are minor as opposed to holy wow!, now that's a major difference.

Basement won't be for a while so i'm buying for the moment, its a much larger room so ill be looking for something higher end in the future.

I looked at the Sb12-NSD and the only problem i have with it is the frequency response, 23Hz, other than that it appears to be a stellar sub for the price. I'm still considering cancelling my order and getting the ex...Why does there have to be so many choices lol?

Hopefully this snowstorm won't delay whatever i decide on...
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post #12 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 05:14 PM
 
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Why does there have to be so many choices lol?

To me, making a choice of this kind, feels like the Abbot and Costello skit: "Who's on First" as one thinks they're advancing in a positive direction and then bang, "First base." tongue.gif
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post #13 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 05:22 PM
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My primary goal with this sub is really just extension for movies, output isnt crucial due to the room size. I went ahead an ordered an outlaw lfm plus to try and if i like it i may order a second. Correct me if im wrong but i believe outlaw has a 30 day trial period. The subs you guys have listed above i think will be better for when i begin putting together my theater for my basement. The vtf-3 seems like a great sub but i may wait to start my basement to shell out some more cash.

I'm curious if you had multiple RW12Ds just what you're going to gain by going to a single sub as far as room response goes (and I'd have kept the PSW505 too....or are you keeping the old subs for other purposes?), would think multiple subs would still be better than the singles you're considering.

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post #14 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm curious if you had multiple RW12Ds just what you're going to gain by going to a single sub as far as room response goes (and I'd have kept the PSW505 too....or are you keeping the old subs for other purposes?), would think multiple subs would still be better than the singles you're considering.

Well my main goal is deeper extension, in a room as small as what i'm putting these in, having 2 of the rw-12d's didn't seem to get me what i was looking for. Don't get me wrong though, i don't really think you can beat a pair of those for $600, its just i'm allowing my budget to go up a bit. I actually had 3 of them, sold 2 so i still have one. I guess i could try the outlaw with the rw-12d but i'm not sure how well thats going to turn out for me.

I plan to order another outlaw if i like it so i will only temporarily be running a single setup. I REALLY wish the ex was $549 like it was a while back. Room response in here hasn't appeared to be an issue even with just one sub, but having 2 12's in a room this small is simply marvelous....
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post #15 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 06:48 PM
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Looking at your list of previously owned subs it appears you've been going upward one step at a time. You know the saying: Go big or go home. I sold my RW-12D & PSW505 and am staying home til I save the coin to go big.
Another step instead of a jump may not satisfy you again. Just sayin.

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post #16 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking at your list of previously owned subs it appears you've been going upward one step at a time. You know the saying: Go big or go home. I sold my RW-12D & PSW505 and am staying home til I save the coin to go big.
Another step instead of a jump may not satisfy you again. Just sayin.

The reason behind all my other subs is because i went to a storage unit auction with a friend and bought one that had a psw-505 and a sub-10, i bought the sw-450 for 180 on an employee discount a while back before i really knew anything about home theater. The rw-12d's were really the first serious purchase i guess you could say. I have the money but the question i need to figure out is how much am i willing to spend on a pair of subs. What are you planing on getting?
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post #17 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 07:05 PM
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Probably an XS30 or VTF-15H but that's not set in stone yet. I'll be pulling the trigger on Jan. 9th so I have til then to make up my mind. At the price range I'll be in I'm sure I'll be happy with whatever I get.
If you sold your last RW-12D you could add that to what you have and get closer to the bigger dogs. Being without a sub hurts but it won't kill you.
At least I haven't died yet.

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post #18 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah thats true, call me crazy but i would rather have 2 lfm plus's than one vtf-15h. I could buy 2 vtf 15h but it would just be overkill for my room so i dont see the point. Ill consider 2 15's in a larger room.
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post #19 of 39 Old 12-25-2012, 07:30 PM
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Yeah thats true, call me crazy but i would rather have 2 lfm plus's than one vtf-15h. I could buy 2 vtf 15h but it would just be overkill for my room so i dont see the point. Ill consider 2 15's in a larger room.

I wasn't suggesting my choices for you. I would never call you crazy either. Even if it were true. biggrin.gif

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post #20 of 39 Old 12-26-2012, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I'm curious if you had multiple RW12Ds just what you're going to gain by going to a single sub as far as room response goes (and I'd have kept the PSW505 too....or are you keeping the old subs for other purposes?), would think multiple subs would still be better than the singles you're considering.

Well my main goal is deeper extension, in a room as small as what i'm putting these in, having 2 of the rw-12d's didn't seem to get me what i was looking for. Don't get me wrong though, i don't really think you can beat a pair of those for $600, its just i'm allowing my budget to go up a bit. I actually had 3 of them, sold 2 so i still have one. I guess i could try the outlaw with the rw-12d but i'm not sure how well thats going to turn out for me.

I plan to order another outlaw if i like it so i will only temporarily be running a single setup. I REALLY wish the ex was $549 like it was a while back. Room response in here hasn't appeared to be an issue even with just one sub, but having 2 12's in a room this small is simply marvelous....

Deeper extension by a few hz? Like xstanleyx said, it appears you're taking baby steps rather than just getting what you want. Multiple RW12ds would do very nicely, but if you really want low extension, why fool around with an improvement so small? Just get the Submersive or Captivator now smile.gif

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post #21 of 39 Old 12-26-2012, 07:54 AM
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Deeper extension by a few hz? Like xstanleyx said, it appears you're taking baby steps rather than just getting what you want. Multiple RW12ds would do very nicely, but if you really want low extension, why fool around with an improvement so small? Just get the Submersive or Captivator now smile.gif

I don't think we want the guy to kill himself. biggrin.gif

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post #22 of 39 Old 12-26-2012, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Deeper extension by a few hz? Like xstanleyx said, it appears you're taking baby steps rather than just getting what you want. Multiple RW12ds would do very nicely, but if you really want low extension, why fool around with an improvement so small? Just get the Submersive or Captivator now smile.gif

Now thats just a little out of my budget lol.....
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post #23 of 39 Old 12-29-2012, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Any help?
Bad decisions, based on the cheap, do not make for good decisions. Ya know what I mean?
If one cares about quality, one knows they have to spend more then they want to and you know you want to because we both know you care.
Normally my recommendations stay within stated budget parameters but this time, based on this comment of yours: "(Which is the limit i'm setting for myself)," which tells me you have more to give to your cause, I recommend either a SVS, PB12-NSD or a Rythmik, F12.
The most flexible for a listening environment, due to the PEQ, my opinion, is the Rythmik, F12 but for overall output quality, the SVS, PB12-NSD.
You wrote: "...then i could spend my $150 elsewhere."
Based on your OP, this is the "elsewhere" regarding my recommendation and where you should spend your extra hundred and fifty bucks.
Just saying.
-

Just thought i'd let you know that i took your advise and raised my budget, I found an epik empire on craigslist and got it today. And believe me..... i don't regret spending that much one bit after hearing it.
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post #24 of 39 Old 12-29-2012, 09:51 PM
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Just thought i'd let you know that i took your advise and raised my budget, I found an epik empire on craigslist and got it today. And believe me..... i don't regret spending that much one bit after hearing it.

No baby step there. You gotta be in bass heaven now. Congrats on your new purchase!
smile.gif

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post #25 of 39 Old 12-29-2012, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
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No baby step there. You gotta be in bass heaven now. Congrats on your new purchase!
smile.gif

Thanks, but now i have a lfm-1 plus coming in the mail wednesday lol...... i don't think these 2 will sound good together. I underestimated how much bigger the empire would be compared to the rw-12d.
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post #26 of 39 Old 12-29-2012, 11:06 PM
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Just thought i'd let you know that i took your advise and raised my budget, I found an epik empire on craigslist and got it today. And believe me..... i don't regret spending that much one bit after hearing it.

You might regret it if the amp craps out, which from what I've read isn't that uncommon with that sub.
Sorry I didn't mean to rain of your parade, but that was one of the subs on my list when I was looking to buy. After reading the Epik thread here I stayed far far away.

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post #27 of 39 Old 12-30-2012, 04:21 AM
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You might regret it if the amp craps out, which from what I've read isn't that uncommon with that sub.
Sorry I didn't mean to rain of your parade, but that was one of the subs on my list when I was looking to buy. After reading the Epik thread here I stayed far far away.

I thought the amp issues were with the Legend, not the Empire.
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post #28 of 39 Old 12-30-2012, 05:15 AM
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The amp issues were more on the Legends. I replaced the amp on my Empire about a year ago under warranty, while the old amp went back to Epik never heard if they determined what had gone bad but Chad said it was rare. Nice find JDM! I didn't try the Klipsch and the Empire together, but I do use the Empire with two Infinity PSW310s in my living room. They play reasonably well together. I'd rather have three Empires. I have talked to the guy who has one in the classifieds here but right now after xmas and some dental work the budget is not cooperating at the moment....

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post #29 of 39 Old 12-30-2012, 09:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

The amp issues were more on the Legends. I replaced the amp on my Empire about a year ago under warranty, while the old amp went back to Epik never heard if they determined what had gone bad but Chad said it was rare. Nice find JDM! I didn't try the Klipsch and the Empire together, but I do use the Empire with two Infinity PSW310s in my living room. They play reasonably well together. I'd rather have three Empires. I have talked to the guy who has one in the classifieds here but right now after xmas and some dental work the budget is not cooperating at the moment....
Why in the world would you buy a used one for nearly 725 after shipping that has no warranty versus simply buying a new one?
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post #30 of 39 Old 12-30-2012, 10:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JDM467 View Post

Just thought i'd let you know that i took your advise and raised my budget, I found an epik empire on craigslist and got it today. And believe me..... i don't regret spending that much one bit after hearing it.

Thanks for the shout out. If I might, what kind of Craig's List deal did you get? With room gain and the two 15" drivers, pretty much, on it's own, that one unit should be able to raise the roof: "Whoop!, Whoop!" Congrats on the Craig's List score.

.....................biggrin.gif
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