HSU VFT-15H vs. Rythmik FV15 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 12-29-2012, 10:37 PM - Thread Starter
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hsu is 1018 shipped

Rythmik is 1262 shipped

Not too much difference. What would you choose?
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post #2 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 03:58 AM
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They're both good choices in the price range. The primary difference is the rhythmik uses a servo mechanism that supposedly can self correct the sound. I've read mixed reviews on whether or not it makes a difference.
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post #3 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 05:49 AM
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How big is your room? And what percentage of music to HT will you be using it for?

Btw, is your room sealed or does it have an opening to another room?

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post #4 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 08:40 AM
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I contemplated the exact 2 models when I was shopping ended up with the HSU and as far as music it met and exceeded my expectations for everything especially bang for the buck.
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post #5 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 09:08 AM
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I was in the same situation and used to own and love the hsu vtf2.3. I wanted to upgrade (didn't have to but ended up doing so from hanging out here frequently). At first I wanted the 15H as I love its little brother vtf2.3 but after reading Audioholic reviews and many shoot out/GTG here between the 15H and FV15, the Rythmik edges the Hsu. I decided with the FV15hp 550W version and love every bit of it. It is great for music (tight/fast and accurate) and is unbelievable for movie. I though my Hsu vtf2.3 was very good but the FV15HP is in another league. The vtf2.3 bottomed out on some ultra low bass movies (war of the world, incredible hulk, etc...) at close to reference level (-5 to -8db), I have not heard any bad sound with the FV15HP at those level or even at reference with 6db hot sub level. I am pretty sure the 15H is awesome as well and you cannot go wrong with either. You can now get the 550W FV15HP version for $100 discount (~$1300 shipped) losing 0.5db output as compare to the 600W HP version. Most folks here believes the FV15HP is a better sub which is why I ended up with it.
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post #6 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 10:29 AM
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^^Beliefs are powerful things. I believe you've based your response on a sub you own being better than a sub you chose not to get. I, on the other hand went with the 15H and feel it's pretty good. Better than the Rhythmik, don't know never heard it in my home theater.

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post #7 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 11:16 AM
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^^
Seriously dude? Did you even read my reply? Have you read those shoot out/gtg/reviews? IIRC, I was one of many that recommended the Hsu 15H to you for your $1k budget when you shopped for the sub. If one can afford the Rythmik, it is a better sub, the 15H is one of the best for $1k budget.
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post #8 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 01:15 PM
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In that shoot out they compared the 15h to the fv15 not the hp. They said the rythmik had the most output by about 2.8dbs, but the hsu moved them like no other sub. Take that for what you will and that shoot out helped me make up my mind at the time with the budget that I had. If I had the extra money I would go with the fv15hp, but I have no regrets with the 15h. They are all great subs and their price points reflect that. Now my dilemma is to get another 15h or try to save some cash and pair it with a psa xv15, but that is for another thread.

Life is hard, be harder.
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post #9 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints View Post

In that shoot out they compared the 15h to the fv15 not the hp. They said the rythmik had the most output by about 2.8dbs, but the hsu moved them like no other sub. Take that for what you will and that shoot out helped me make up my mind at the time with the budget that I had. If I had the extra money I would go with the fv15hp, but I have no regrets with the 15h. They are all great subs and their price points reflect that. Now my dilemma is to get another 15h or try to save some cash and pair it with a psa xv15, but that is for another thread.


I've had this same thought over the past couple days. It would certainly be cheaper just to pick up another 15H when the time comes.

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post #10 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 03:50 PM
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I used to own the eD A7s-450 (the "loudest" performer in the GTG) and have since traded it for a HSU VTF-15h in rosewood. The HSU may not play as loud (by a few dB), but the low bass (read: below 30hz) creates a much more tactile sensation in my room. The HSU is also more musical to me.

For anybody who read the review, the Rhythmik was played in an "unprotected" mode to get those high output numbers. It was at HIGH RISK for bottoming to generate those numbers and required careful and close monitoring. The HSU never bottomed. Not once. The Rhythmik's spl performance was much less enthralling with the protection circuits engaged.

If I were going to get a Rhythmik, I would look hard at the FV-15HP. I've heard an FV-15 and an FV-15HP and the HP version is truly impressive...and almost 50% more expensive than the VTF-15h. I would personally rather have an FV-15HP than an SVS PB13 ultra, based on my listening experience.

However, back on topic. I've been very pleased with my HSU VTF-15h and I haven't noticed the reduced output capability from my A7s-450 at any frequency, since I wasn't running either of them on the ragged edge to begin with. I do find that frequencies below 30hz feel much more present in my space than with the eD (even using a lot of EQ). The HSU blends very well with my Arx A5 towers, which are a critically damped design.

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post #11 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 04:17 PM
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From the shootout on the FV-15:

"*This sub was the only sub to bottom out on some source material, but that was our fault - hence the recommendation to be careful if you're looking for pure spl. It definitely can cleanly push the numbers we've posted, but we accidentally went over the line a few times because this thing sounds so good there is very little audible indication that we were pushing it to the limits. Be sure to set the limiter to ON for home theater."


Vice the HSU VTF-15h:

"Again, just look at the intro video, like the Rythmik you can tell this thing is as accurate as they come. Plus total peace of mind when cranking it. We can't tell you how much fun this sub is to listen to. It was kind of a mystery to us: even though its average max SPL was about 2.8db below the A7s-450, this thing just moved you like no other. Some people don't like the transference, but we do. Nothing is more fun than having someone over to your HT for the first time, and they jump out of their seat when the couch shakes during that first explosion.

Another thing we liked about the HSU is, even in vented mode, it seemed to have the advantages of both a vented AND a sealed sub in that it played 20hz material with the authority of a vented sub, but had the accuracy typical of a sealed sub. Also, unlike many vented subs, turning it up didn't induce clipping or any distortion, it just stopped getting louder like a sealed sub. In fact, this was the only sub that kept its sound quality all the way up to its max output. And that was in 2 vents open mode. Noice!"



http://www.avsforum.com/t/1313176/shootout-epik-empire-vs-hsu-vtf-15h-vs-cht-cs18-1-vs-rythmik-fv15-vs-ed-a7s-450

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post #12 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post

From the shootout on the FV-15:

"*This sub was the only sub to bottom out on some source material, but that was our fault - hence the recommendation to be careful if you're looking for pure spl. It definitely can cleanly push the numbers we've posted, but we accidentally went over the line a few times because this thing sounds so good there is very little audible indication that we were pushing it to the limits. Be sure to set the limiter to ON for home theater."

Vice the HSU VTF-15h:

"Again, just look at the intro video, like the Rythmik you can tell this thing is as accurate as they come. Plus total peace of mind when cranking it. We can't tell you how much fun this sub is to listen to. It was kind of a mystery to us: even though its average max SPL was about 2.8db below the A7s-450, this thing just moved you like no other. Some people don't like the transference, but we do. Nothing is more fun than having someone over to your HT for the first time, and they jump out of their seat when the couch shakes during that first explosion.
Another thing we liked about the HSU is, even in vented mode, it seemed to have the advantages of both a vented AND a sealed sub in that it played 20hz material with the authority of a vented sub, but had the accuracy typical of a sealed sub. Also, unlike many vented subs, turning it up didn't induce clipping or any distortion, it just stopped getting louder like a sealed sub. In fact, this was the only sub that kept its sound quality all the way up to its max output. And that was in 2 vents open mode. Noice!"

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1313176/shootout-epik-empire-vs-hsu-vtf-15h-vs-cht-cs18-1-vs-rythmik-fv15-vs-ed-a7s-450


This is really what I was speaking of earlier when I read that most people here believe that the Rythmik is the better sub. Why? Based on?

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post #13 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

This is really what I was speaking of earlier when I read that most people here believe that the Rythmik is the better sub. Why? Based on?

I agree. The good news for the OP is that the FV-15 and the VTF-15h are BOTH good subs. But for somebody to extrapolate from the GTG that the Rhythmik is somehow superior is beyond me. It also means they must have skipped reading the conclusion:

"The A7s-450 and 18.1 are spl monsters. They're pretty much a tie in that department. The 18.1 to both Ethan and I does sound better than the s450. It just sounds cleaner and tighter. The s450 still sounds very good, not muddy at all. Its just once you've heard both, its clear the 18.1 sounds better. And so does the Empire, it is also a little monster. (little next to these guys) We'd put its sound quality on par with the CS18.1, although it has its own distinct sound so some of you may prefer one over the other. It was only down 2db's compared to the 18" subs yet went down to 20hz with authority. It's nice to know that even without room gain the Empire can go down that low. Rythmik's FV15 is a ported sub that has the sound quality of a sealed - a high-end sealed sub. It amazed us how clean and tight the sound was - at very loud volumes. You would never guess it's a ported sub except for it's output down low. It went the deepest of any of the subs, which is to be expected, and made it's presence known on some material where the other subs didn't. Then there's the HSU. It tied with the Rythmik in sound quality over the other subs, and again these two had their own distinct sound so you might prefer one over the other. The Hsu had the least output average, but only by about 2.8db. Oddly enough it shook the couch more than any other sub. One of the things we loved about this sub besides its looks was that it never complained no matter how loud it went. An outstanding sub all around.

Ok so to sum up, yes all these subs have their own strengths and each one is amazing in its own way. So again, the whole point of posting our experience is to provide some insight - not to sway you one way or another, but to leave it up to you the reader to draw your own conclusions. Hopefully we've helped you out a little in that regard.

Thanks for reading!"

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post #14 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 05:23 PM
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Ok so to sum up, yes all these subs have their own strengths and each one is amazing in its own way. So again, the whole point of posting our experience is to provide some insight - not to sway you one way or another, but to leave it up to you the reader to draw your own conclusions. Hopefully we've helped you out a little in that regard.
Thanks for reading!"


They way they ended up was perfect...not recommending anything, just telling what they found. If we had more of that around sub discussions, then we would all be better off. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate everyone who helped me with my decision but now that I own a very good sub, I notice myself having to pull back from saying the 15H is the better than sub x. If I have done it, I shouldn't have. Even if I had heard both subs in my home theater, I don't know how the same subs would sound in your home theater.

It also appears that there are no real standards for reporting numbers with subs or even how you even set the sub's gain. From what I read in another thread, the manufacturer could set up a sub to have 90% of it's output before the gain dial hits 12 o'clock or set the sub up to pick up 50% of it's output after the dial goes past 3 o'clock. All very confusing to the consumer for no real reason.

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post #15 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 05:35 PM
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That "Shootout" is not the "last word".
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post #16 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 05:37 PM
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That "Shootout" is not the "last word".

You are totally correct. They set it up so that it definitely not the last word. They said here is the info, you draw your own conclusions.

I guess what I want is a set of standards for subs so everyone can go down the line and at least make some attempt at making an informed decision based upon their situation. I don't make subs but just thinking about it, every sub I've seen has some sort of gain knob on it....why should they work differently?

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post #17 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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As far as the Rythmik being 'superior,' I think it's simply because it cost more. What costs more is better right? That's why someone would spend 20k on two tower speakers. But I believe I will be going with the HSU sub. My room has one side open. Dr. Hsu has already asked for pictures and made all recommendations for placement and tuning settings. Really it's just a gut feeling at this point. After reading all about both of them and numerous satisfied customers of both subs, I feel like the HSU is for me. Now to order on the 15th considering I just bought all the speakers. I will be 50/50 Music/HT.
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post #18 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 05:59 PM
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Yes, people do directly relate price to quality. Everything reaches a point of diminishing returns. Spending too much money on your speakers just to say you own them isn't very smart but hey, it's their money.

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post #19 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 06:14 PM
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Do you honestly believe all Rythmik owners are that shallow? Or are you just trying to feel better about your choice? Why? Having doubts?
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post #20 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 06:20 PM
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You are totally correct. They set it up so that it definitely not the last word. They said here is the info, you draw your own conclusions.
I guess what I want is a set of standards for subs so everyone can go down the line and at least make some attempt at making an informed decision based upon their situation. I don't make subs but just thinking about it, every sub I've seen has some sort of gain knob on it....why should they work differently?

I think the CEA 2010 standard is a good one, the problem is the results seem to vary (sometimes considerably) from reviewer to reviewer as we saw with the Hsu review at Audioholics versus other established review sites. And in the end, while measurements are very helpful, they don't tell you the full story. Too be honest you can't really go wrong with either of these subs, I guess it just comes down to budget and gut feeling.
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post #21 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 06:24 PM
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I guess we have to just order them all at the same time an return all the ones we don't want.......lol.

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post #22 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 06:27 PM
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That "Shootout" is not the "last word".

It's not the last word, it was a very interesting "word" though. People will take what they want from the comments.
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post #23 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 06:35 PM
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I guess we have to just order them all at the same time an return all the ones we don't want.......lol.

Yeah, that would ultimately be the best way of shipping was not so much...

Either way, no matter which one you choose you can't go wrong.
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post #24 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 06:37 PM
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Do you honestly believe all Rythmik owners are that shallow? Or are you just trying to feel better about your choice? Why? Having doubts?

I'm not sure who this was pointed at but no, I don't feel ALL Rythmik owners are that shallow. I'm sure many of them came to this site and many others trying to figure out what was the best sub for them and ended up more or less being told which was best for them. Without a good set of comparison tools, there's no way to make a good decision.

No, not trying to justify my purchase. I had 30 days to return it should I had the want to. This type thing doesn't just have to be the 15H vs. the FV15, it could be any subs that are being considered for purchase by anyone.

As I said in another thread a day or so ago. I think I made a good decision but it wasn't really an educated one because the info just wasn't there like it should have been. I used the shootout info talked about in this thread to assist me with making my decision but I would have loved more from different locations.

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post #25 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you honestly believe all Rythmik owners are that shallow? Or are you just trying to feel better about your choice? Why? Having doubts?

Perhaps you took it personal. It was not a 'shot' on Rythmik owners. If you read again I mention 20k speakers people buy. It was a simple statement that the human mind tends to think more expensive is better. Which it usually is at a basic level of principle. Ive read reviews from guys who have owned serious multiple sets of 20-30k towers and have come to love 2k Definitive Tech towers better.

The proof of this mindset lies in market of ridiculously expensive speaker cables...and you know it!
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post #26 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 07:09 PM
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I guess what I want is a set of standards for subs so everyone can go down the line and at least make some attempt at making an informed decision based upon their situation.

CEA 2010 test performed by Josh Ricci is a great standard.

 

data-bass.com

 

Compare and contrast subs there.

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post #27 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 07:24 PM
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^^Thanks. I was just looking at that site a couple days ago. It's very good info and something along the lines of what I want. Now, we just need to get all subs on there.

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post #28 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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So whats the difference between the 550 watt fvhp and the fv?
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post #29 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 08:21 PM
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Received my FV15HP 600w last week and it is by far the best HT investment I've made. It replaced my old SVS cylinder Sub that treated me very good. The FV15HP is a beast and I am sure the HSU VTF15 is a beast also. Might sound funny to some but the gloss black FV15HP was worth the extra money based on looks alone.

Good problem to have. I am sure that they would both knock your socks off.

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post #30 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K5/SS View Post

Received my FV15HP 600w last week and it is by far the best HT investment I've made. It replaced my old SVS cylinder Sub that treated me very good. The FV15HP is a beast and I am sure the HSU VTF15 is a beast also. Might sound funny to some but the gloss black FV15HP was worth the extra money based on looks alone.
Good problem to have. I am sure that they would both knock your socks off.

I am also a huge fan of the FV-15hp. As I stated before, I think it sounds better to me than a PB-13 ultra. It is really in a whole 'nother league and it's unfair to directly compare it to the VTF-15h (and I'm not saying you are doing so). I love my VTF-15h, but the FV-15hp sounds just as good or better...and plays a lot louder. As well it should for roughly ~$500 more in price. The FV-15hp is a bad mamma-jamma.

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