? Best Sub For $3000 a pair, HSU VT 15,Rym FV15 HP, SVS PB 13 ultra - AVS Forum
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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > ? Best Sub For $3000 a pair, HSU VT 15,Rym FV15 HP, SVS PB 13 ultra
akast27's Avatar akast27 07:12 AM 01-07-2013


I need to upgrade my 2 Subwoofers.

I just upgraded my Back SR's to Revel performa 208's, love the new lines Sound and their new Finish looks awesome.

I have BG 520 FR Speakers and BG 220 Center. They Sound Amazing with Music and are also good for Movies

I also just purchased a Dennon 4520.

Music is #1 for me so I need a good Sub that performs good sound quality for all types of music but it also should sound good for Movies.

I can go to $2000 EA but only if the Sub sounds that much better than others Subs below that price.

Are there any other Subs I should Consider?

Which one is best in the $1000-$2000 price range.

Please give me your #1, #2 and 3

thanks in advance

AK

oztech's Avatar oztech 08:12 AM 01-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by akast27 View Post

I need to upgrade my 2 Subwoofers.
I just upgraded my Back SR's to Revel performa 208's, love the new lines Sound and their new Finish looks awesome.
I have BG 520 FR Speakers and BG 220 Center. They Sound Amazing with Music and are also good for Movies
I also just purchased a Dennon 4520.
Music is #1 for me so I need a good Sub that performs good sound quality for all types of music but it also should sound good for Movies.
I can go to $2000 EA but only if the Sub sounds that much better than others Subs below that price.
Are there any other Subs I should Consider?
Which one is best in the $1000-$2000 price range.
Please give me your #1, #2 and 3
thanks in advance
AK

You need to post the size of the room and size of the rooms that are opened to it if any and if there is a size limit or placement issue with the subs .
shadyJ's Avatar shadyJ 08:46 AM 01-07-2013
Two PB13 Ultras will run you more than 3k. From those I would go for the Rythmik FV15HP subs.
akast27's Avatar akast27 05:01 PM 01-07-2013

My Room is 22x16. It opens to my Basement Office which is 22x13.

Sometimes my Son has parties in both rooms and blasts the Music. My current System plays loud enough that most people say it is too loud at 65%.

I think many people have already said that the Rym FV15 is a better choice then the HSU. I do know the HSU is a very good Sub and cost less but I am looking for the best between $1000-$2000. More expensive is not always better. I know that many of the Subs above can out perform others Subs at a higher price. Some are over marketed, sound good, not the best for the money- just like BOSE does in their market.

I really would like to know how the PB13-Ultra compares to the FV15 HP and the E15?

Which one has the best Sound quality overall?

Thanks for the help

AK
Smigro's Avatar Smigro 05:47 PM 01-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by akast27 View Post

My Room is 22x16. It opens to my Basement Office which is 22x13.
Sometimes my Son has parties in both rooms and blasts the Music. My current System plays loud enough that most people say it is too loud at 65%.
I think many people have already said that the Rym FV15 is a better choice then the HSU. I do know the HSU is a very good Sub and cost less but I am looking for the best between $1000-$2000. More expensive is not always better. I know that many of the Subs above can out perform others Subs at a higher price. Some are over marketed, sound good, not the best for the money- just like BOSE does in their market.
I really would like to know how the PB13-Ultra compares to the FV15 HP and the E15?
Which one has the best Sound quality overall?
Thanks for the help
AK

From what I have been told the FV15HP and PB13u are pretty close in performance with the Rythmik being $600 cheaper. I just got an FV15HP with the 550 amp (which is $100 less than the 600 amp but you are only losing a .5 dB in output) and it is a very stout sub. So with that you are only paying $1300 per sub including shipping.

I do not really think you go wrong with either and I guess it would come down to looks and if you value te 5 year btb warranty that SVS offers.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 06:40 PM 01-07-2013
I have yet to hear a solid arguement from anyone as to why someone should spend $600+ more on a PB13-Ultra over a FV15HP performance wise. I know you get a longer warranty on the amp but really thats about it. Both companies have to notch customer service.

I was going to go with dual FV15HP's after all of the research that I did but in the end decided to try out a pair of PSA XS30s.
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 07:13 PM 01-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I have yet to hear a solid arguement from anyone as to why someone should spend $600+ more on a PB13-Ultra over a FV15HP performance wise.

A suggestion, stop over at databass.com and look at the spectrograms for both these units and then decide if it's worth it to you or not. If it's worth six hundred extra or not is a personal decision.

What one has to do is step away and with a clear mind, decide how much is performance and how much is online hype and how much you the reader are being affected by this hype. And no, I'm not knocking anybody, any product or thumbing my nose at the fun factor; none of it. So please, don't go there. I'm just saying and yes, what I'm saying is a valid consideration as one has to decide if all this extra performance is for them and worth that extra six hundred dollars.
akast27's Avatar akast27 08:41 PM 01-07-2013
Thanks JBrown for your perspective

Just curious how you arrived at your decision to go with the PSA XS30. I don't see any reviews on them. I know they are a new Model. You seem like a guy that does his homework and makes good decisions.

How do you know that the Sound quality is as good as the Rym Sub? It looks like the PSA Xs30 goes lower but I wonder if it can equal the Sound quality of the Rym FV15 HP.

Sound quality is the highest weighted factor for me. I have heard very powerful thumping subs but what sets great Subs apart in my opinion is SQ. I play three instruments and Sing so that is why SQ is so important to me. I would rather have 600 watts of the best SQ I can afford than 2000 watts of pure power. That is why I am wondering if the PSA sounds as good or better than the FV15 HP.

Most people that come to my house like Sound Quality over comparing a house that rattles more than another house. I love watching great Movies but I will take SQ with Music over Home Theatre performance anyday

So far I am leaning towards the Rym Sub.

Thanks

AK
beezar's Avatar beezar 09:09 PM 01-07-2013
Maybe you should look at sealed subs? A lot of people think that sealed subs are more musical than ported ones. Something like the SVS SB13 Ultra which also has the advantage of a smaller footprint vs. the PB13 Ultra, for instance.
Saints's Avatar Saints 09:16 PM 01-07-2013
The Rythmik servo subs are known for their musical sound quality, but based on your last post I might suggest the Hsu VTF-15H. If you read the shoot out thread you already know that the Hsu was comparable to the Rythmik FV15 (not HP) and with its variable Q control and multiple operating modes (sealed, 1 port, 2 ports) I am positive you can find a setting that you will be happy with, plus if you go duals you will save a huge chunk of change!
carp's Avatar carp 09:23 PM 01-07-2013
For just a little more than your budget you could get a pair of subs with far more output than what's being discussed so far, with great sound quality to boot.

Dual JTR passive Captivators = 2999.00 + 275 for the behringer ep4000 amp to power them BOTH. I used to own this setup, it was awesome.
Yosh70's Avatar Yosh70 09:33 PM 01-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I have yet to hear a solid arguement from anyone as to why someone should spend $600+ more on a PB13-Ultra over a FV15HP performance wise. I know you get a longer warranty on the amp but really thats about it. Both companies have to notch customer service

Looking at both Rythmik and SonicBoom sites (where I got my Ultra), the gloss black FV15HP is $1500 and $299 shipping to my door.
The Ultra is $1900 + $125 shipping.....so actually there is only $225 difference. As far as Canadian prices go anyways.
Saints's Avatar Saints 09:42 PM 01-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

For just a little more than your budget you could get a pair of subs with far more output than what's being discussed so far, with great sound quality to boot.
Dual JTR passive Captivators = 2999.00 + 275 for the behringer ep4000 amp to power them BOTH. I used to own this setup, it was awesome.
Carp how are the caps with music as it seems that is the OPs main concern? We have all read how the caps and seatons slam for movies, but I don't recall reading much about how they are with music, although I would guess they are just as good. I would guess the OP has sufficient information to go by now with the suggestions and one will never really know until they demo it in their own space, but it seems to break down like this IMO.
$1000 Hsu
$14-1500 Rythmik
$2000 JTR - Seaton territory
Give or take a few bucks here and there.

Then there's SVS and PSA in between with people's varying opinions, but other than the really good review of the VX15 I haven't heard that much about the other PSA subs yet.
carp's Avatar carp 09:49 PM 01-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints View Post

Carp how are the caps with music as it seems that is the OPs main concern? We have all read how the caps and seatons slam for movies, but I don't recall reading much about how they are with music, although I would guess they are just as good. I would guess the OP has sufficient information to go by now with the suggestions and one will never really know until they demo it in their own space, but it seems to break down like this IMO.
$1000 Hsu
$14-1500 Rythmik
$2000 JTR - Seaton territory
Give or take a few bucks here and there.
Then there's SVS and PSA in between with people's varying opinions, but other than the really good review of the VX15 I haven't heard that much about the other PSA subs yet.

Well, I ended up selling the Captivators and getting Seaton Submersives for that very reason, music. That said some do prefer the Caps sound so it's a preference thing. I'd put the Submersive up against ANYTHING as far as sound quality goes and I've heard a ton of subs.

I spend most of my listening time with music, and it's around 85 db average. I do crank it up at times of course, but music around 85 is the norm. Music is the big priority to me over movies, always will be. The Submersive is beyond fantastic at that or any volume. Haha, that said I just sold one of my Submersives because I'm starting a DIY project for the first time - at this point I've gone so far in the hobby and I LOVE to try new things and have always been curious about DIY.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 12:12 AM 01-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

A suggestion, stop over at databass.com and look at the spectrograms for both these units and then decide if it's worth it to you or not. If it's worth six hundred extra or not is a personal decision.

That's my whole point, go to data-bass.com and look at the numbers. They are so close that I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be able to hear a difference between the 2 performance wise. So why spent the extra money on a PB13-Ultra.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 12:37 AM 01-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

Looking at both Rythmik and SonicBoom sites (where I got my Ultra), the gloss black FV15HP is $1500 and $299 shipping to my door.
The Ultra is $1900 + $125 shipping.....so actually there is only $225 difference. As far as Canadian prices go anyways.

FV15HP is $1274 before shipping.
Boogy's Avatar Boogy 01:17 AM 01-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

FV15HP is $1274 before shipping.

IF you want to save $100 you can order it with the H550PEQ3 amp and lose less than 0.5 db output. That's what I'll be doing. Don't think I'll miss the 0.5 too much.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 01:43 AM 01-08-2013
I know that, but if you read one of the replies from the OP you'd see that "if" he went with the FV15HP it would be with the 600watt amp.
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 05:06 AM 01-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

That's my whole point, go to data-bass.com and look at the numbers. They are so close that I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be able to hear a difference between the 2 performance wise. So why spent the extra money on a PB13-Ultra.

FWIW, I've yet to read a single forum member posting a review that bags on PSA or their product mix. My comments are not to be seen as bagging on any individual product manufacture as in my opinion, they're all excellent performers. Yes, based on what's been posted by AVS forum members, for various and many reasons , I have a pecking order of favorites and price has not played into the consideration.

Agreeing with jbrown15, the gist of my decision making process consists of publicly posted data graphs and anecdotal reviews by forum members.

Being buried in the northeast mountains of California, within a hundred miles of our location, I doubt I could find a single subwoofer being discussed for personal review. So like most, one needs to find other decision making processes in which to validate the choice making process; what works for the individual. If one looks at what negative reviews have to share and takes into consideration the ratio of negative reviews posted vs positive/neutral reviews and then adds into the mix the common thread string of negative/positive information coupled to empirical information in which to corroborate what the reviewers have to say, yes, despite what some want you to believe, anecdotal reviews are a valid tool in the decision making process.

Another point one needs to explore and take into consideration is online hype; what's fact and what's emotionally based hype. One of my biggest joys and fails was being gifted a Rolex Watch. The watch has pretty much zero ability to withstand shock, is expensive to repair but is quite the charmer (like putting diamonds around a ladies neck) to put on one's wrist when going to dinner with family and friends; hype. Since being gifted a Rolex, out of necessity, I've acquired several other watches so now I have a work watch that can take a beating (I'm now retired), a slim, stylish, going for cocktail watch (no tie) and a "ROLEX" for when I put a tie on. One can't do the same with subwoofers for in a Home Theater environment, subwoofers are a one-size-fits-all proposition; choose wisely. Now, which sub should a person choose to fill their subwoofer void.....hype, or no hype. In the end, one has to make a choice they can afford that fills both needs, emotional and practical. This is what I call the esoteric middle ground.

With all the above ramblings in mind, in the simple, based on price constraints and demand for quality sound, my recommendation to the OP is a pair of PSA, XS30's and use any spare change to woo your spouse with a killer night on the town.

By-the-by jbrown15, you stated a few posts above that you order a pair of PSA, XS30's. Have you received them yet and if so, have you had a chance to integrate them into your system and match their acoustics to your viewing room and if so, what are your personal thoughts regarding a pair of properly integrated PSA, XS30's?

To the OP, I hope the above ramblings helps with your decision making process.

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jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 10:34 AM 01-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

By-the-by jbrown15, you stated a few posts above that you order a pair of PSA, XS30's. Have you received the im yet and if so, have you had a chance to integrate them into your system and match their acoustics to your viewing room and if so, what are your personal thoughts regarding a pair of properly integrated PSA, XS30's?
To the OP, I hope the above ramblings helps with your decision making process.
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Well I've had them for just over 3 weeks now as I was about the 3rd person to place an order with PSA for the XS30 with Tom, I haven't had a whole lot of time to really get them dialed in. I've played around with them a little and my placement options were pretty limited. Basically I have one in each corner of the front wall of my theater. With the detailed drawing that I provided too Tom he expected that I would see output all the way down to 7-8hz and so far I believe him. I've watched about 6 movies down in the room (Dark Knight Rises, Avengers, Total Recall and all 3 LOTR) and these two subs put a huge grin on my face! Over the next month or so I'm going to pick up a mic and really start to get into REW and really try to optimize my room so I should have a really good idea of how these subs sound. So far they do sound great though, and I've played a few CDs down there too and they sound great with music too. Of course they were bought with mainly HT use in mind.

When I started my search for a upgrade the FV15HP was one of the front runners. There really isn't anything bad to say about it other then its really big, but almost everything at this price point is. One of the reasons I didn't go with the FV15HP was the height, I would have had to raise my screen up in my theater or I could have just turned the sub on its side I guess. Anyways that was one thing to consider, the other was the price. At roughly $2700 for two subs shipped that was something to consider, and I know the 550watt version would have saved me $200. I probably would have still gone with the 600watt amp, its just the way I am. And then there's the warranty. Rythmik only warranties their amps for 2 years. This is not a knock on Rythmik, its just the old "it is what it is".I was one of the first few to order the XS30 so I was able to get a pair of XS30s for $2098 shipped. That is a VERY good price for the performance, and you get basically a 5 years bumper to bumper warranty with PSA. In the end I decided after dealing with Tom and just the feeling I had for him as a person that my gut feeling was I couldn't go wrong with trying out the new XS30s.
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 10:47 AM 01-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

...and these two subs put a huge grin on my face!

The grin factor, now that's a technical descriptor I can really sink my sonic teeth into. biggrin.gif

Thanks for the mini-review as I'm fast coming to the conclusion that the PSA, XS30 is what I term the esoteric middle ground. Not as nice looking as the Funk, 18.0 C's yet they have much better sound quality (authority) then a pair of Klipsch, RW-12d's as the XS30's, solidly hit the middle ground between these two extremes.

(My above is not a knock at either Hsu, Rythmik or SVS as all are what I consider to be quality products.)

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jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 11:09 AM 01-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

The grin factor, now that's a technical descriptor I can really sink my sonic teeth into. biggrin.gif
Thanks for the mini-review as I'm fast coming to the conclusion that the PSA, XS30 is what I term the esoteric middle ground. Not as nice looking as the Funk, 18.0 C's yet they have much better sound quality (authority) then a pair of Klipsch, RW-12d's as the XS30's, solidly hit the middle ground between these two extremes.
(My above is not a knock at either Hsu, Rythmik or SVS as all are what I consider to be quality products.)
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Funk Audio 18.0Cs were another sub that I was VERY close to getting, and they are fairly close too me also so I wouldn't even of had to pay for shipping. And I've also said it before I "could" possibly end up getting one down the road just too try out. But for now I'm extremely happy with dual XS30s.
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 11:40 AM 01-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Funk Audio 18.0Cs were another sub that I was VERY close to getting, and they are fairly close too me also so I wouldn't even of had to pay for shipping. And I've also said it before I "could" possibly end up getting one down the road just too try out. But for now I'm extremely happy with dual XS30s.

Agreed, being able to duck out on any shipping charges makes the 18.0 C's that much more attractive.

From your vantage point, other than physical appearance, considering the dual 15" drivers in the XS30's, overall, amplifier in the 18.0 C aside, would you consider the 18.0 C's an upgrade or simply a lateral move to a much better looking subwoofer?

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Yosh70's Avatar Yosh70 10:36 PM 01-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

FV15HP is $1274 before shipping.

??? Gloss (piano) black is $1500....I'm not talking about the black oak finish.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 10:57 PM 01-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

??? Gloss (piano) black is $1500....I'm not talking about the black oak finish.

Okay, you still paid $225 more for a sub that really has no performance advantage over the FV15HP. That's my whole point, and if someone such as myself didn't want a piano finish because its going in a theater and would reflect a lot of light they would be saving a LOT more then $225 per sub for Canadian customers.
Archaea's Avatar Archaea 11:02 PM 01-08-2013
a pair of passive JTR captivators and a EP 4000 would cost about 3.3k and have double or triple the output of the other subs discussed here.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 11:08 PM 01-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

a pair of passive JTR captivators and a EP 4000 would cost about 3.3k and have double or triple the output of the other subs discussed here.

$3300 including shipping?
Cowboys's Avatar Cowboys 11:34 PM 01-08-2013
^^
No, $3300 plus shipping.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 12:17 AM 01-09-2013
So then the OP would be looking at over $3500+ right?
BeeMan458's Avatar BeeMan458 03:39 AM 01-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

a pair of passive JTR captivators and a EP 4000 would cost about 3.3k and have double or triple the output of the other subs discussed here.

I'm not bagging on anybody in particular. The above triggered my thought.

In general, many like to talk about output as if that's the ultimate goal. This as opposed to fidelity to THX reference.

"Why I can get 120dB out of my system."

"That's no system, I can get 140dB out of mine with headroom to spare."

"Why my system is so loud, while cranking the blues, as they're flying overhead, jet engines bow their head in respect."

I know this is heresy to post this point but in my opinion, anything above THX reference, qualifies as bragging rights. If that's what the person is all about, listening at post THX standards, that's fine. But is that what we're all suppose to be trying to achieve or is it about THX reference levels and enjoying the movie in front of us? If someone wants to "Rock the Casbah," they're welcome to but they'd be intellectually honest if they were to state, that's what their personal goal was in their advice as opposed to recommendations that meet a standard for the purpose of enjoying a movie sound track as the mix-master intended..

(Just saying)

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Tags: Fv15hp Subwoofer
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