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post #1 of 64 Old 01-07-2013, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Before my question I'd just like to say that I'm a new member but I've been browsing the forums for some time. This is the best place I've seen for helpful and very smart replies.
Now on to my question:
My area is 27x21 with 8 foot ceiling and stairs. That includes my living room with a dividing wall separating the kitchen. I'm sure when picking a sub I need to use the total size of the room. I was debating on the pb1000 or pb12-NSD, contacted svs and was told I would need the larger pb12 NSD because of the large area.
My question is does everyone here agree, and second does anyone think I have to go up another step to the plus or ultra for my room size. Question 2 is more for info as I don't have the money for the plus or ultra. I'm at my max with the pb12-NSD.
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post #2 of 64 Old 01-07-2013, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mahkey View Post

Before my question I'd just like to say that I'm a new member but I've been browsing the forums for some time. This is the best place I've seen for helpful and very smart replies.
Now on to my question:
My area is 27x21 with 8 foot ceiling and stairs. That includes my living room with a dividing wall separating the kitchen. I'm sure when picking a sub I need to use the total size of the room. I was debating on the pb1000 or pb12-NSD, contacted svs and was told I would need the larger pb12 NSD because of the large area.
My question is does everyone here agree, and second does anyone think I have to go up another step to the plus or ultra for my room size. Question 2 is more for info as I don't have the money for the plus or ultra. I'm at my max with the pb12-NSD.


i think they gave good advice. I haven't heard the 1000 but I can imagine it not doing much in a room that size. You need power and if the Nsd is the best you can do, go for that and maybe get another later.

I'm sure others will chime in soon.

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post #3 of 64 Old 01-07-2013, 08:28 PM
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That's a pretty big room. If it were me, I'd do the PB12-NSD at least, and more likely the PB12 Plus or better if you want to stick with SVS. But if you don't have the funds, you don't have them.

The guys at SVS don't try to upsell you, and often times recommend subs which are less expensive if they feel that a bigger sub isn't required. So I'd listen to what they say.
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post #4 of 64 Old 01-08-2013, 04:50 AM
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My area is 27x21 with 8 foot ceiling and stairs. ... I'm sure when picking a sub I need to use the total size of the room. I was debating on the pb1000 or pb12-NSD, contacted svs and was told I would need the larger pb12 NSD because of the large area.
I had a older, BASH-powered PB12-NSD in my ~3,375 cu.ft. basement (laminate-over-concrete) HT space and I was considering adding a second one (before I upgraded instead to my current subs).

In your 4,536 cu.ft. space, dual PB-1000s might work, but dual PB12-NSDs would be better.
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post #5 of 64 Old 01-08-2013, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I will atleast get the pb12-NSD, svs actually suggested the proper sub for my area was the plus or ultra. I would love to have that but can't swing it. I was actually looking in the $250-$300 (klipsch refrence sub) range but bumped up to the $500-770 range out of desire to have something nice. There is just no way I can get the plus or ultra, it would actually be cheaper for me to just install doors to enclose my ht area, separate it from the kitchen, ha.
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post #6 of 64 Old 01-08-2013, 03:08 PM
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I was actually looking in the $250-$300 (klipsch refrence sub) range but bumped up to the $500-770 range out of desire to have something nice.
If you can add $29 to the top of your budget range, get the PSA XV-15 ($799, shipped). PSA was founded last year by former SVS guys, and their subs are garnering excellent reviews. And the XV-15 will outperform PB12-NSD. smile.gif
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post #7 of 64 Old 01-08-2013, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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^ does everyone agree with the PSA option being better than svs pb-12nsd?

Also I had the chance to go to Crutchfield today and demo a klipsch sw-115 with tron, sounded pretty good but it was setup in the middle of the store with small cubicle like walls, open cieling, so it's kinda hard to know what it would sound like in my house. Price is around that of the PSA and pb-12nsd, only thing is Crutchfield has one in the scratch and dent section with a small dent in the rear for about $500.
I want to know if I should get the pb-12nsd, PSA, or the klipsch sw115?
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post #8 of 64 Old 01-08-2013, 06:50 PM
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Either get the PB or the XV......I wouldn't fool with the Klipsch.
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post #9 of 64 Old 01-08-2013, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mahkey View Post

^ does everyone agree with the PSA option being better than svs pb-12nsd?
Also I had the chance to go to Crutchfield today and demo a klipsch sw-115 with tron, sounded pretty good but it was setup in the middle of the store with small cubicle like walls, open cieling, so it's kinda hard to know what it would sound like in my house. Price is around that of the PSA and pb-12nsd, only thing is Crutchfield has one in the scratch and dent section with a small dent in the rear for about $500.
I want to know if I should get the pb-12nsd, PSA, or the klipsch sw115?

I agree with our canuck friend. The XV-15 is the way to go.

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post #10 of 64 Old 01-09-2013, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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So even though the klipsch sw-115 is at a great price of $500, I should still consider the other options? I will say at least the other options svs and psa both have a 5 year warranty. I still feel as though the svs option is the way to go as they use sledge amps and dropped BASH amps as they thought they were not reliable enough.

Even though I don't have the budget to get a sub sized to match my room, I think I will still be happy with any of the subs mentioned as I'm coming from a small HTIB onkyo 8inch woofer.
When I tested the klipsch sub in the worst possible enviroment at crutchfield store, it still made me smile. So with that being said, I think the svs or psa (better subs) in my much better area (compaired to crutchfield) will certainly make me happy.
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post #11 of 64 Old 01-09-2013, 11:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahkey View Post

I will atleast get the pb12-NSD, svs actually suggested the proper sub for my area was the plus or ultra. I would love to have that but can't swing it. I was actually looking in the $250-$300 (klipsch refrence sub) range but bumped up to the $500-770 range out of desire to have something nice. There is just no way I can get the plus or ultra, it would actually be cheaper for me to just install doors to enclose my ht area, separate it from the kitchen, ha.

One can always go backwards to get ahead and purchase a pair of on sale at Newegg, Klipsch, RW-12d's as a price/performance compromise over that of a single SVS, PB12-NSD. Very often the RW-12d's go on sale at Newegg for a delivered price of $299.00. Due to packing problems during shipping and the need for additional shipment packing, Newegg may have increased the price and this is their new, shipped price.

I'd also go with your suggestion of adding doors to further compartmentalize your listening area.
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post #12 of 64 Old 01-09-2013, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I had deff looked at going the newegg RW-12 route. But fearing issues with Klipsch/BASH and wanting reliability and performance I went towards HSU and SVS as well as looking at all the other ID companies. I really just want a nice warranty and something in the 16-18hz range. 60%games, 40% movies.

I was only joking about adding doors, I would however really consider it if I could add pocket doors but that would require a bit of extra work, (framing, drywall, painting).

The PSA XV-15 has really got me thinking, would be awesome if there was a direct review comparing it to the PB12-NSD, but the XV-15 has not been out very long; the specs look good though.

I'm sure I'm not as picky about sound as most here, so I think trying to get a really nice sub by most AVS members standards is going to be fantastic for me.
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post #13 of 64 Old 01-09-2013, 12:24 PM
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I'd start by figuring out what your desired volume is. Do you actually listen at reference levels in that space? If not what level are you looking for?

I haven't spoken with SVS directly, but just received a SB12-NSD today, and I'm not questioning their recommendation, but I'm guessing it was based on the ability to provide reference level output, which you may not need at all if your listening at -10db max.
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post #14 of 64 Old 01-09-2013, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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That's a great way to look at it xianthax, I don't actually listen at reference, sure ill turn it up but not that loud. I have my receiver set to start at 0, and listen at about 65.
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post #15 of 64 Old 01-10-2013, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm still ordering ID (SVS or PSA) but I wanted to experience having a large sub first, so I picked up a Klipsch SW-115 yesterday to demo at home. The sub was a scratch and dent, and apparently broken sub, so i'm picking up a new model tonight to test out. I'm super excited to experience what it is to go from a cheap HTIB onkyo 8 inch to this 15 inch coffee table. As long as this SW-115 pleases me in the slightest I know i'll be happy with either of the SVS/PSA options listed above.

Although tonight I believe i'll have a friend come over and help me get it in the house, at about 70lbs and odd to carry, I really don't want to drop it; it was awkward and scary last night especially with my english lab running circles around me as I was carrying it, I guess he was excited to listen to the new sub as well, haha.
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post #16 of 64 Old 01-10-2013, 02:41 PM
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I'm a huge fan of SVS and their longstanding customer service. That's not to say PSA isn't a good company, I just haven't had any interaction with them. I've had a number of internet direct subs from Outlaw and now SVS, and have had good success with them all so far, including replacement parts. SVS also has a good sellable name that if you desired to upgrade later, you could likely sell your SVS for a reasonable percentage of the original paid price. You'll likely be blown away by whatever you end up purchasing. Eventually you'll miss that dramatic improvement of impactful sound and start considering an upgrade, especially if you spend much time around here...we're contageous in a bad way. Enjoy the process and enjoy the results - that's what audio and video is about - entertainment.

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post #17 of 64 Old 01-10-2013, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by boarder1995 View Post

I'm a huge fan of SVS and their longstanding customer service. That's not to say PSA isn't a good company, I just haven't had any interaction with them. I've had a number of internet direct subs from Outlaw and now SVS, and have had good success with them all so far, including replacement parts. SVS also has a good sellable name that if you desired to upgrade later, you could likely sell your SVS for a reasonable percentage of the original paid price. You'll likely be blown away by whatever you end up purchasing. Eventually you'll miss that dramatic improvement of impactful sound and start considering an upgrade, especially if you spend much time around here...we're contageous in a bad way. Enjoy the process and enjoy the results - that's what audio and video is about - entertainment.



Correction: It's about Entertainment and being broke from being too entertained.biggrin.gif

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post #18 of 64 Old 01-11-2013, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks boarder1995.

Yeah, SvS won me over with all the great reviews here on AVS, as well as how quick they were to answer some of my questions.

I do still have a question regarding BASH vs. Sledge, I know SVS uses Sledge and dropped BASH. Since every sub i've looked at besides SVS uses BASH, are they really that bad?
I even see PSA uses BASH, however they offer a 5 year warranty as well.

Second question, PSA is the best out of the three we've discussed according to a few members, that aside, would it be a true that the pb-12 blows the klipsch sw115 out of the water, or is it just mildly better? I ask that question not to decide between the two, just to gauge how much I may like the PB-12 over the klipsch.

I demoed the SW115 last night, I was more than impressed. I watched clips from iron man, two towers, and then watched Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter. I was smiling the whole time. I was really missing out not having a low hitting sub. I'm taking the klipsch back today and ordering my ID sub after I get a reply to the above questions.

An extra perk of the SVS or PSA is woofer protection, SVS has a nice metal guard and the PSA is down firing, I have a cat and a 95 lb english lab, they are both very curious animals.
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post #19 of 64 Old 01-11-2013, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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post #20 of 64 Old 01-14-2013, 04:29 AM - Thread Starter
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post #21 of 64 Old 01-14-2013, 11:26 AM
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The switch from BASH to Sledge as I understand was for reliability and they got more power from the Sledge to boot. I've got one of each in my setup in my Ultra 13's (Sledge and BASH) and can't say I can tell a difference, but I don't compare very ofter. Plus they're in two different locations in the room which also affects sound. I don't think you'll go wrong with either manufacturer as they'll both outperform what you've tried so far.

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post #22 of 64 Old 01-14-2013, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by beezar View Post

The guys at SVS don't try to upsell you, and often times recommend subs which are less expensive if they feel that a bigger sub isn't required. So I'd listen to what they say.

My experience exactly (as I was inches from spending $400 more than I truly needed in my setup). I have had an online dialog with the staff at SVS for almost 7 years now. That kind of after the sale support is hard to come by now.

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post #23 of 64 Old 01-14-2013, 06:19 PM
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I'd go the PSA XV15 route over the NSD. The XV15 is is the equivalent of the pb12 plus. Should blow away the nsd. The XV15 won the Audioholics product of the year award in the subwoofer category as well and has been getting rave reviews from everyone who has one. The owner of PSA was one of the original founders of SVS so he knows his stuff. Read through the forum link below for more info.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1372020/power-sound-audio-discussion-thread
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post #24 of 64 Old 01-14-2013, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mahkey View Post

Thanks boarder1995.

Yeah, SvS won me over with all the great reviews here on AVS, as well as how quick they were to answer some of my questions.

I do still have a question regarding BASH vs. Sledge, I know SVS uses Sledge and dropped BASH. Since every sub i've looked at besides SVS uses BASH, are they really that bad?
I even see PSA uses BASH, however they offer a 5 year warranty as well.

Second question, PSA is the best out of the three we've discussed according to a few members, that aside, would it be a true that the pb-12 blows the klipsch sw115 out of the water, or is it just mildly better? I ask that question not to decide between the two, just to gauge how much I may like the PB-12 over the klipsch.

I demoed the SW115 last night, I was more than impressed. I watched clips from iron man, two towers, and then watched Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter. I was smiling the whole time. I was really missing out not having a low hitting sub. I'm taking the klipsch back today and ordering my ID sub after I get a reply to the above questions.

An extra perk of the SVS or PSA is woofer protection, SVS has a nice metal guard and the PSA is down firing, I have a cat and a 95 lb english lab, they are both very curious animals.

I would bet the SW115 would have a substantial output advantage over the PB12 NSD. I certainly wouldn't trade one for a PB12 NSD. BTW, where did you get one for $500? I thought their price was more in line with 800. Anyway, if you want something that will be a upgrade to the SW115, I would go for a Hsu VTF15h, a PSA XV15, a Rythmik FV15, or a SVS PB12 Plus. My feeling is, based on the specs and how well the Klipsch RW-12d performs, the SW115 is one of the few B&M subs that could compete with ID subs.
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post #25 of 64 Old 01-15-2013, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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:podarski;
Does the XV15 really compare to the pb12plus? The XV15 has a 15" with 500 watts and the pb12plus has a 12" with 800 watts; I know that's not the only thing to consider however.
I really want to give the XV15 a try especially since the price is on par with my SVS NSD option. I just have a hard time choosing PSA, whereas the people are a good bet, the company is still new, a 5 year warranty means nothing if they're not around to honor it.

:shadyJ;
Why would you say the klipsch option would be better than the PB12 NSD? Other members have said just the opposite. I got one for $500 from Crutchfield scratch and dent, turned out to have a bad amp and got a new model for $800. Whereas I was happy with the SW115 (not having heard any others), I know right off the bat, for $800 I would at least get the PSA XV15, no contest there. I don't know who would choose the klipsch option when the XV15 is available, and I would bet the SVS PB12 NSD would still be a better choice then the Klipsch. Now, after some time goes by and the Klipsch SW115 gets cheaper, then that's a whole other thing.

I'm not getting the Klipsch, so I just have to decide on the new kid (PSA XV15) or the more established SVS PB or PC12 NSD. I'm glad I have these choices, and I'm sure I will be happy with either.biggrin.gif
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post #26 of 64 Old 01-15-2013, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahkey View Post

:podarski;
Does the XV15 really compare to the pb12plus? The XV15 has a 15" with 500 watts and the pb12plus has a 12" with 800 watts; I know that's not the only thing to consider however.
I really want to give the XV15 a try especially since the price is on par with my SVS NSD option. I just have a hard time choosing PSA, whereas the people are a good bet, the company is still new, a 5 year warranty means nothing if they're not around to honor it.

:shadyJ;
Why would you say the klipsch option would be better than the PB12 NSD? Other members have said just the opposite. I got one for $500 from Crutchfield scratch and dent, turned out to have a bad amp and got a new model for $800. Whereas I was happy with the SW115 (not having heard any others), I know right off the bat, for $800 I would at least get the PSA XV15, no contest there. I don't know who would choose the klipsch option when the XV15 is available, and I would bet the SVS PB12 NSD would still be a better choice then the Klipsch. Now, after some time goes by and the Klipsch SW115 gets cheaper, then that's a whole other thing.

I'm not getting the Klipsch, so I just have to decide on the new kid (PSA XV15) or the more established SVS PB or PC12 NSD. I'm glad I have these choices, and I'm sure I will be happy with either.biggrin.gif

You can see how the PSA XV15 compares to the PB12 NSD here. From 30 to 80 hz, the PB12 gets wrecked by the XV15, but at 20 hz they are even. If we take SVS's word that the Plus has 6 dB greater output than the NSD, the Plus would beat the XV15 at all frequencies except 40 to 50 hz, but the Plus would have a big lead at 20 hz. Given how flat the SVS subs measure, I can certainly believe that would be the case, so I don't really consider the XV15 to be quite on the level with the Plus.

Between the XV15 and the SW115, I would go with the XV15 certainly. However I would guess that the Klipsch sub would be better than the PB12 NSD sub because it is almost certainly going to have a lot more mid bass and upper bass output. I would guess that the PB12 NSD would have more 20 hz output, but the vast majority of sound content from movies, games, and music lies above 20 hz, so the majority of the time the SW115 would be hitting harder. Anyway that is just speculation, I have heard neither, but you could have an opportunity to hear them both and decide for yourself if you are intent on ordering another sub and are willing to onto the SW115 for a bit longer. Such a comparison would be a nice service for this forum, and I think it would serve as a good counter example to the norm where we expect ID subwoofers to be leaps better than store bought brands.
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post #27 of 64 Old 01-15-2013, 11:53 AM
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:podarski;
Does the XV15 really compare to the pb12plus? The XV15 has a 15" with 500 watts and the pb12plus has a 12" with 800 watts; I know that's not the only thing to consider however.
I really want to give the XV15 a try especially since the price is on par with my SVS NSD option. I just have a hard time choosing PSA, whereas the people are a good bet, the company is still new, a 5 year warranty means nothing if they're not around to honor it.

:shadyJ;
Why would you say the klipsch option would be better than the PB12 NSD? Other members have said just the opposite. I got one for $500 from Crutchfield scratch and dent, turned out to have a bad amp and got a new model for $800. Whereas I was happy with the SW115 (not having heard any others), I know right off the bat, for $800 I would at least get the PSA XV15, no contest there. I don't know who would choose the klipsch option when the XV15 is available, and I would bet the SVS PB12 NSD would still be a better choice then the Klipsch. Now, after some time goes by and the Klipsch SW115 gets cheaper, then that's a whole other thing.

I'm not getting the Klipsch, so I just have to decide on the new kid (PSA XV15) or the more established SVS PB or PC12 NSD. I'm glad I have these choices, and I'm sure I will be happy with either.biggrin.gif

The PB12-Plus is a step above the XV15, XV15 is the PB12-NSD between PB12-Plus and, in terms of production. But then there are more factors, THD is probably the lowest in the SVS in the XV15.

The plus takes advantage of PEQ and tuning variable, 20Hz, 16Hz and sealed. It also has a more beautiful campus that fits best with your room's decor.

While the XV15 is still a beast for the price, you have to give up certain things (especially for aesthetics) I do not like, but here we are talking about personal tastes (which to me can be beautiful, for others it can be very ugly):-D. To be clear, the XV15 is one step ahead of the PB12-NSD.

a hug
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post #28 of 64 Old 01-15-2013, 04:37 PM
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I would recommend XV-15 over SVS PB-12NSD, which is an entry level sub (until a month ago) from SVS. More importantly your room is BIG

Did you consider other options like Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX ? Down firing woofer and it is outlaw's top of the line sub.

Also, HSU VTF-3 MK-4 which is a very capable SUB (Side Firing, considered as an upgraded version compared to the above outlaw sub)

Velodyne EQ-MAX 15 which was being sold for $750 during holiday season. All the above are within your budget of $800

Raks

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahkey View Post

Thanks boarder1995.

Yeah, SvS won me over with all the great reviews here on AVS, as well as how quick they were to answer some of my questions.

I do still have a question regarding BASH vs. Sledge, I know SVS uses Sledge and dropped BASH. Since every sub i've looked at besides SVS uses BASH, are they really that bad?
I even see PSA uses BASH, however they offer a 5 year warranty as well.

Second question, PSA is the best out of the three we've discussed according to a few members, that aside, would it be a true that the pb-12 blows the klipsch sw115 out of the water, or is it just mildly better? I ask that question not to decide between the two, just to gauge how much I may like the PB-12 over the klipsch.

I demoed the SW115 last night, I was more than impressed. I watched clips from iron man, two towers, and then watched Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter. I was smiling the whole time. I was really missing out not having a low hitting sub. I'm taking the klipsch back today and ordering my ID sub after I get a reply to the above questions.

An extra perk of the SVS or PSA is woofer protection, SVS has a nice metal guard and the PSA is down firing, I have a cat and a 95 lb english lab, they are both very curious animals.
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post #29 of 64 Old 01-15-2013, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Ahh, hugs are the best, ha.

Like I said I can only afford the pb/pc12 NSD or the xv15 (I was originally looking at the rw12d but stretched to the $800 range) The plus is out.
Specs say XV15 of course but I personally have a issue with a company so new. I will try and make a decision of: better sub vs long run company. Not a easy decision based on that example, specs alone the xv15 would win.
I'm also not super picky, I was happy with the klipsch sw115 and whereas one member has mentioned it being better than the svs pb12 I just don't believe that based on others opinions.
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post #30 of 64 Old 01-15-2013, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Like I said I can only afford the pb/pc12 NSD or the xv15 (I was originally looking at the rw12d but stretched to the $800 range) The plus is out. Specs say XV15 of course but I personally have a issue with a company so new.
PSA has "SVS DNA", and from everything I've read on this site, their products and customer service are second to none. IMO, there is absolutely no reason not to jump all over a PSA sub. (Unless you don't like the aesthetics of their subs...but since you're considering them, I think I can safely assume that the aesthetics are not an issue.) And - by all accounts - the XV-15 WILL outperform the PB/PC12-NSD.
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