The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 481 Old 04-29-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

I'm not understanding how this would work??
Where in the chain would it go?

Edit: I'm guessing you use a HDMI out from the receiver, to in on this device? Then some how send a analog signal to the pro amp???

Edit part 2: so if you read things.....they might make sense. So it seems this little device can take a digital signal in, and send a analog out through a 3.5 jack. Question is....how do you get a 3.5 out of this doohickey, to
A balanced in on a pro amp?

If that is cleared up for me it could work. My AVR can out put 2 HDMI signals simultaneously. Right now I'm only using one to my display. So in theory I can send 1 HDMI to my tv and the other to this converter to a pro amp.

You would probably have to have this just before the receiver would be my guess since it will still pass through the full audio/video signal. I believe my Denon receiver only passes the video signal out and not the audio (though there may be a setting for that).

By balanced I assume you mean an XLR connection correct? If that is the case, you can simply use an RCA to XLR adapter or cut out the middle man and go 3.5mm to XLR 3.5mm to XLR Cable. It wont truly be balanced, but for the use of the crowsons and in a short run to the amp, it should work just fine.

If I remember right, a balanced cable is simply 3 conductors, a ground and two signals. Both signals being the same signal, only 180 degrees out of phase with each other which helps negate any interference, which shouldn't be a problem in a run less than 15 feet or so with halfway decent unbalanced cables if interference is a concern.
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post #272 of 481 Old 04-30-2014, 10:04 AM
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You would probably have to have this just before the receiver would be my guess since it will still pass through the full audio/video signal. I believe my Denon receiver only passes the video signal out and not the audio (though there may be a setting for that).

By balanced I assume you mean an XLR connection correct? If that is the case, you can simply use an RCA to XLR adapter or cut out the middle man and go 3.5mm to XLR 3.5mm to XLR Cable. It wont truly be balanced, but for the use of the crowsons and in a short run to the amp, it should work just fine.

If I remember right, a balanced cable is simply 3 conductors, a ground and two signals. Both signals being the same signal, only 180 degrees out of phase with each other which helps negate any interference, which shouldn't be a problem in a run less than 15 feet or so with halfway decent unbalanced cables if interference is a concern.

After reading more about this device I think I have it figured out. I can use one of the HDMI outs on my receiver (it has 2) and send that to this device. Then from there I can get a either 3.5 ml jack to 1/4" or 3.5 ml to balanced, and send that to the inuke. Now the question is...what is the output voltage on the device? It needs to be enough the drive the inuke.

I found this one as well http://www.milestek.com/p-16898-hdmi-audio-extractor-converter.aspx?mm_campaign=7CADA9DDEE95A204713FCD9DA90222CC&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=converters&utm_term=hdmi%20to%20audio%20converter&utm_content=text it should do the same thing as the one you linked except this looks like it only does audio. It's cheaper and does only what I need it for......audio.

Another way I could try is to run audyssey with only sub1 connected, then use sub2 after calibration. I posted in the 3009 thread and a member stated that he did it this way for his buttkickers. In theory when you run audyssey with only sub1.....it only applies filters to sub1. Then if you hook up sub2 there shouldn't be any filters since it was not in the calibration. It sounds like it could work, I asked him if he had REW to confirm.....he does not have REW. So I will wait until I'm and finished with at least one of my subs to test it out myself. Does anyone think this could work?
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post #273 of 481 Old 04-30-2014, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

After reading more about this device I think I have it figured out. I can use one of the HDMI outs on my receiver (it has 2) and send that to this device. Then from there I can get a either 3.5 ml jack to 1/4" or 3.5 ml to balanced, and send that to the inuke. Now the question is...what is the output voltage on the device? It needs to be enough the drive the inuke.

I found this one as well http://www.milestek.com/p-16898-hdmi-audio-extractor-converter.aspx?mm_campaign=7CADA9DDEE95A204713FCD9DA90222CC&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=converters&utm_term=hdmi%20to%20audio%20converter&utm_content=text it should do the same thing as the one you linked except this looks like it only does audio. It's cheaper and does only what I need it for......audio.

Another way I could try is to run audyssey with only sub1 connected, then use sub2 after calibration. I posted in the 3009 thread and a member stated that he did it this way for his buttkickers. In theory when you run audyssey with only sub1.....it only applies filters to sub1. Then if you hook up sub2 there shouldn't be any filters since it was not in the calibration. It sounds like it could work, I asked him if he had REW to confirm.....he does not have REW. So I will wait until I'm and finished with at least one of my subs to test it out myself. Does anyone think this could work?

I've heard of this being done to bypass REW Audyssey being run on subs.
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post #274 of 481 Old 04-30-2014, 04:53 PM
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I've heard of this being done to bypass REW being run on subs.
Which of the two methods to bypass REW? The external device in the link or engaging sub 2 after calibration?
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post #275 of 481 Old 04-30-2014, 04:54 PM
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Which of the two methods to bypass REW? The external device in the link or engaging sub 2 after calibration?

engaging after
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post #276 of 481 Old 04-30-2014, 06:11 PM
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Bypass REW? Do you mean a bypass audyssey?

I'm very new to REW but I know you can take a measurement of your room, then let REW apply filters and then you can upload the filters to something like a mini DSP or inuke. Is this what you mean by "Bypass"?

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post #277 of 481 Old 04-30-2014, 11:47 PM
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Just for the information of anyone reading this thread and deciding, especially from the last page or so, that it all sounds too complicated, it really isn't.

I'm running 3 Seaton SubMersives and simply use a splitter to hook the Crowsons into the Sub2 out on my prepro. So the first 2 SubMersives use the Sub1 out, and my 3rd SubMersive and the Crowsons use the Sub2 out. I get the effect of the Crowsons through every source, I can adjust the effect up or done via remote, all this talk of wanting to bypass Audyssey, of only hooking up via an Oppo BR player thus limiting yourself to one source, etc etc is really making me laugh. Talk about complicating things.

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post #278 of 481 Old 05-01-2014, 12:42 AM
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I meant audyssey, sorry. You can run it with the subs off, then enable the subs later.
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post #279 of 481 Old 05-01-2014, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4daisy View Post

Just for the information of anyone reading this thread and deciding, especially from the last page or so, that it all sounds too complicated, it really isn't.

I'm running 3 Seaton SubMersives and simply use a splitter to hook the Crowsons into the Sub2 out on my prepro. So the first 2 SubMersives use the Sub1 out, and my 3rd SubMersive and the Crowsons use the Sub2 out. I get the effect of the Crowsons through every source, I can adjust the effect up or done via remote, all this talk of wanting to bypass Audyssey, of only hooking up via an Oppo BR player thus limiting yourself to one source, etc etc is really making me laugh. Talk about complicating things.
It depends on how aggressively Audyssey eqs your subs as the transducers are effected the same way. I tried to eq my subs most of the way manually and let Audyssey take care of the rest, then let the subs and Crowsons share the same signal. The Crowsons didn't feel as seamless and i didn't like it. The technique of engaging sub 2 does seem like it could be a simple alternative. I haven't tried a fixed signal, but I do like the intensity of the transducers to increase as I turn up the volume that way it feels natural as my subs are also contributing more tactile sensation at that point as well.
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post #280 of 481 Old 05-01-2014, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4daisy View Post

Just for the information of anyone reading this thread and deciding, especially from the last page or so, that it all sounds too complicated, it really isn't.

I'm running 3 Seaton SubMersives and simply use a splitter to hook the Crowsons into the Sub2 out on my prepro. So the first 2 SubMersives use the Sub1 out, and my 3rd SubMersive and the Crowsons use the Sub2 out. I get the effect of the Crowsons through every source, I can adjust the effect up or done via remote, all this talk of wanting to bypass Audyssey, of only hooking up via an Oppo BR player thus limiting yourself to one source, etc etc is really making me laugh. Talk about complicating things.

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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

It depends on how aggressively Audyssey eqs your subs as the transducers are effected the same way. I tried to eq my subs most of the way manually and let Audyssey take care of the rest, then let the subs and Crowsons share the same signal. The Crowsons didn't feel as seamless and i didn't like it. The technique of engaging sub 2 does seem like it could be a simple alternative. I haven't tried a fixed signal, but I do like the intensity of the transducers to increase as I turn up the volume that way it feels natural as my subs are also contributing more tactile sensation at that point as well.
gpmbc has nailed it. If Audyssey is not doing much to the signal in the range of the transducers, you have nothing to worry about. However, if Audyssey is making big cuts in your FR in the range of your transducers, you'll absolutely notice it.

Her is a measurement of the combined output of my 3 Seaton SubM HP's pre-Audyssey:




Here is the same measurement post-Audyssey:



My transducers are Low Passed at 40 Hz, so focus on the pre/post response below 40 Hz. Audyssey has imposed an 8 dB cut that extends from 20 Hz to 40 Hz. That is absolutely noticeable in the transducer response. Driving it from the analog subwoofer output of the Oppo completely changed how my Crowson's felt, because I got that octave of response back. I won't go back to driving them from the output of my pre/pro ever again. Also, by adjusting the Distance setting in the Oppo, I can "time" the transducers with the subwoofers. That is essential to integrating them properly, and it is much harder to do using the subwoofer output of the pre/pro. You need some external delay device in the circuit to do it.

Craig
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post #281 of 481 Old 05-02-2014, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4daisy View Post

Just for the information of anyone reading this thread and deciding, especially from the last page or so, that it all sounds too complicated, it really isn't.

I'm running 3 Seaton SubMersives and simply use a splitter to hook the Crowsons into the Sub2 out on my prepro. So the first 2 SubMersives use the Sub1 out, and my 3rd SubMersive and the Crowsons use the Sub2 out. I get the effect of the Crowsons through every source, I can adjust the effect up or done via remote, all this talk of wanting to bypass Audyssey, of only hooking up via an Oppo BR player thus limiting yourself to one source, etc etc is really making me laugh. Talk about complicating things.

Just for the information of anyone reading this thread and deciding, if you want to get the most out of these transducers.....please take the time to set them up properly. This includes not using them with any type of room correction, i.e. audyssey. Unless you are privileged enough to have a dedicated room that is treated, and have a decently flat frequency response before audyssey, you will most likely not be getting the full effect from the Crawsons. It is discussed many times in this thread not to use audyssey, hence the talk about bypassing, or using a Oppo for the sub out.

I am not trying to make things complicated, I am simply trying find another way to get the full effect Without having to buy a Oppo. If this means bypassing audyssey in order to do so, then I will do it. I would hate to spend my hard earned money only to find out that these didn't meet my expectations because of some room correction.

If anything the conversation in the last few pages should be beneficial to the thread.......it gives people different options to hook Crawsons up. Im sure there will be more then a few people that will read this thread and see this discussion, and be glad it happened.

So if you want to go drop $1200 and simply use a Y splitter, then wonder why you are not getting what everyone else is talking about......then by all means do it. If you want to drop $1200 dollars and and get the full effect without having to buy a Oppo because you read how to in this thread (bypassing audyssey).....then good for you!

Laughs!! rolleyes.gif
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post #282 of 481 Old 05-04-2014, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

Just for the information of anyone reading this thread and deciding, if you want to get the most out of these transducers.....please take the time to set them up properly. This includes not using them with any type of room correction, i.e. audyssey. Unless you are privileged enough to have a dedicated room that is treated, and have a decently flat frequency response before audyssey, you will most likely not be getting the full effect from the Crawsons. It is discussed many times in this thread not to use audyssey, hence the talk about bypassing, or using a Oppo for the sub out.

I am not trying to make things complicated, I am simply trying find another way to get the full effect Without having to buy a Oppo. If this means bypassing audyssey in order to do so, then I will do it. I would hate to spend my hard earned money only to find out that these didn't meet my expectations because of some room correction.

If anything the conversation in the last few pages should be beneficial to the thread.......it gives people different options to hook Crawsons up. Im sure there will be more then a few people that will read this thread and see this discussion, and be glad it happened.

So if you want to go drop $1200 and simply use a Y splitter, then wonder why you are not getting what everyone else is talking about......then by all means do it. If you want to drop $1200 dollars and and get the full effect without having to buy a Oppo because you read how to in this thread (bypassing audyssey).....then good for you!

Laughs!! rolleyes.gif

Let's see, I actually OWN a Crowson system AND an Oppo. I've tried both ways of connection and can't tell any difference in effect except that hooked via the Oppo the timing was out plus I couldn't use the Crowson for other sources. If you'd read this thread you'd have seen my thoughts/review and not make a statement that I'm not getting what everyone else is talking about, I'm one of the ones talking.

Hooked via my prepro I can use the Crowson for all sources which is awesome and especially as most of my viewing is movies off my Htpc. I have a Sonos music system and pay tv also, both able to utilise the Crowson goodness. If people are happy to limit themselves to one source then good for them.

My post was to assure AVERAGE potential Crowson buyers that it is a simple product to connect and use, the professional reviews on the Crowson website confirm this, but thanks anyway for your post back at me ridiculing me that I have it all wrong. You're obviously an expert even though you don't own a Crowson setup and actually can't even spell the Crowson name correctly.

Don't even know why I bothered to respond, it's no skin off my teeth, my thoughts on the Crowson system are well documented in this thread and I enjoy the system every day. I guess I have so much respect for Randy Crowson and his unbelievable product that I don't want his sales potentially set back by turning people off when they read what they may need to do to hook it up.

You do what you like, but keep the ridiculing of an actual owner to yourself.

Laughs!! (I'd put the roll eyes emoticon here too like you did but I can't on an iPhone)
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post #283 of 481 Old 05-05-2014, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by crazy4daisy View Post

Let's see, I actually OWN a Crowson system AND an Oppo. I've tried both ways of connection and can't tell any difference in effect except that hooked via the Oppo the timing was out plus I couldn't use the Crowson for other sources. If you'd read this thread you'd have seen my thoughts/review and not make a statement that I'm not getting what everyone else is talking about, I'm one of the ones talking.

Hooked via my prepro I can use the Crowson for all sources which is awesome and especially as most of my viewing is movies off my Htpc. I have a Sonos music system and pay tv also, both able to utilise the Crowson goodness. If people are happy to limit themselves to one source then good for them.

My post was to assure AVERAGE potential Crowson buyers that it is a simple product to connect and use, the professional reviews on the Crowson website confirm this, but thanks anyway for your post back at me ridiculing me that I have it all wrong. You're obviously an expert even though you don't own a Crowson setup and actually can't even spell the Crowson name correctly.

Don't even know why I bothered to respond, it's no skin off my teeth, my thoughts on the Crowson system are well documented in this thread and I enjoy the system every day. I guess I have so much respect for Randy Crowson and his unbelievable product that I don't want his sales potentially set back by turning people off when they read what they may need to do to hook it up.

You do what you like, but keep the ridiculing of an actual owner to yourself.

Laughs!! (I'd put the roll eyes emoticon here too like you did but I can't on an iPhone)
No doubt one can get great shaking with just a Y-connection from the receiver. For those who get everything they're expecting from the Crowsons, (or any other transducer for that matter), with a simple Y-connector from the receiver, I say congratulations. cool.gif It's great that you can just "plug 'n play" and get great response.

However, if someone buys these transducers and is less than pleased with the result, before they throw in the towel and write off shakers as "gimmicky" or "distracting", (and honestly, how many times have we heard transducers described that way?), I suggest they try some or all of the optimization "options" suggested in this thread. And BTW, a lot of these optimizations can benefit other transducers as well.

I've owned Crowson transducers since 2005, and I've experienced everything from D-Box to Auras. I've experimented with multiple mounting systems, signal sources, amplifiers and delay settings. I can honestly say that my current configuration of dual Crowsons, mounted on a riser beneath 4 chairs, chairs suspended on isolation disks, driven by a Buttkicker BKA1000, Low Passed at 40 Hz, with the signal sent from the Oppo analog subwoofer output and Bass Managed and delayed in the Oppo... is the most integrated and immersive setup I've ever had. The shaking is so perfectly timed and integrated with the sound that the two seem like the same effect.

In terms of the Master Volume Control controlling the Crowson's, I prefer to NOT have that happen. I don't like the effect to be diminished when I'm listening at lower volumes. In fact, I strongly prefer the effect to NOT diminish as the MVC is turned down. I can run the "audio" lower and still get a very immersive subwoofer effect by keeping the transducers at the same level as they are with higher audio settings. I find there is one "right" setting for the transducers, and that the "right" setting is independent of the MVC. I set my Buttkicker amp at one setting, and I almost never change it... no matter what the MVC is set at. I can only do that when the transducers are driven by a separate signal.

If someone wanted to get the same effect without getting an Oppo BD player, a cheaper way to do it would be to get an inexpensive 5.1 receiver with an analog subwoofer output. Something like this: Pioneer Receiver for $150. You would just split the HDMI signal with one of these: 1x2 HDMI Splitter for $5.28. You can then use the new receiver's BM and delay to manage the analog subwoofer output and send it to the transducer amp.

If you want to get really geeky about it, you could add this 4x2 HDMI Splitter. It will take 4 inputs and send them to 2 different outputs. You send one output to the main receiver/pre/pro and the other output to the Tactile Transducer receiver. That way you can use the transducers with up to 4 different sources.

Bottom line, these things are options that users can try to improve the response they get from their transducers. They're certainly not *required* and excellent results can be obtained without them, as can be seen by the myriad of setups in this thread.

Craig

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post #284 of 481 Old 05-05-2014, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

No doubt one can get great shaking with just a Y-connection from the receiver. For those who get everything they're expecting from the Crowsons, (or any other transducer for that matter), with a simple Y-connector from the receiver, I say congratulations. cool.gif It's great that you can just "plug 'n play" and get great response.

However, if someone buys these transducers and is less than pleased with the result, before they throw in the towel and write off shakers as "gimmicky" or "distracting", (and honestly, how many times have we heard transducers described that way?), I suggest they try some or all of the optimization "options" suggested in this thread. And BTW, a lot of these optimizations can benefit other transducers as well.

I've owned Crowson transducers since 2005, and I've experienced everything from D-Box to Auras. I've experimented with multiple mounting systems, signal sources, amplifiers and delay settings. I can honestly say that my current configuration of dual Crowsons, mounted on a riser beneath 4 chairs, chairs suspended on isolation disks, driven by a Buttkicker BKA1000, Low Passed at 40 Hz, with the signal sent from the Oppo analog subwoofer output and Bass Managed and delayed in the Oppo... is the most integrated and immersive setup I've ever had. The shaking is so perfectly timed and integrated with the sound that the two seem like the same effect.

In terms of the Master Volume Control controlling the Crowson's, I prefer to NOT have that happen. I don't like the effect to be diminished when I'm listening at lower volumes. In fact, I strongly prefer the effect to NOT diminish as the MVC is turned down. I can run the "audio" lower and still get a very immersive subwoofer effect by keeping the transducers at the same level as they are with higher audio settings. I find there is one "right" setting for the transducers, and that the "right" setting is independent of the MVC. I set my Buttkicker amp at one setting, and I almost never change it... no matter what the MVC is set at. I can only do that when the transducers are driven by a separate signal.

If someone wanted to get the same effect without getting an Oppo BD player, a cheaper way to do it would be to get an inexpensive 5.1 receiver with an analog subwoofer output. Something like this: Pioneer Receiver for $150. You would just split the HDMI signal with one of these: 1x2 HDMI Splitter for $5.28. You can then use the new receiver's BM and delay to manage the analog subwoofer output and send it to the transducer amp.

If you want to get really geeky about it, you could add this 4x2 HDMI Splitter. It will take 4 inputs and send them to 2 different outputs. You send one output to the main receiver/pre/pro and the other output to the Tactile Transducer receiver. That way you can use the transducers with up to 4 different sources.

Bottom line, these things are options that users can try to improve the response they get from their transducers. They're certainly not *required* and excellent results can be obtained without them, as can be seen by the myriad of setups in this thread.

Craig

Craig, do you happen to know if the Oppo 93 can be used the same way as far as using the analog out to manage a BK amp (or two with a Y-cable) while still using the HDMI outs as well?

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post #285 of 481 Old 05-05-2014, 10:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Craig, do you happen to know if the Oppo 93 can be used the same way as far as using the analog out to manage a BK amp (or two with a Y-cable) while still using the HDMI outs as well?
I'm currently using a 93 as my HDMI BluRay Player as well as the analog source for my Crowsons. It works just as I've described previously.

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post #286 of 481 Old 05-05-2014, 11:19 PM
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Great info you've provided Craig. Thanks for taking the time to be so thorough.
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post #287 of 481 Old 05-06-2014, 05:23 AM
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I'm currently using a 93 as my HDMI BluRay Player as well as the analog source for my Crowsons. It works just as I've described previously.

Craig

Excellent! Thanks for all the info.

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post #288 of 481 Old 05-06-2014, 06:49 PM
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post #289 of 481 Old 05-07-2014, 12:54 AM
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I am using a Y splitter and a MiniDSP to try to reverse the Audyssey EQ. In your graph I would put a boost of 8db where Audyssey cut 8 db and so on. IME, it does not have to be exact. The time delay is also controllable through the MiniDSP. I am using Buttkicker LFE but it should work the same way.
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gpmbc has nailed it. If Audyssey is not doing much to the signal in the range of the transducers, you have nothing to worry about. However, if Audyssey is making big cuts in your FR in the range of your transducers, you'll absolutely notice it.

Her is a measurement of the combined output of my 3 Seaton SubM HP's pre-Audyssey:




Here is the same measurement post-Audyssey:



My transducers are Low Passed at 40 Hz, so focus on the pre/post response below 40 Hz. Audyssey has imposed an 8 dB cut that extends from 20 Hz to 40 Hz. That is absolutely noticeable in the transducer response. Driving it from the analog subwoofer output of the Oppo completely changed how my Crowson's felt, because I got that octave of response back. I won't go back to driving them from the output of my pre/pro ever again. Also, by adjusting the Distance setting in the Oppo, I can "time" the transducers with the subwoofers. That is essential to integrating them properly, and it is much harder to do using the subwoofer output of the pre/pro. You need some external delay device in the circuit to do it.

Craig
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post #290 of 481 Old 05-07-2014, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post

I am using a Y splitter and a MiniDSP to try to reverse the Audyssey EQ. In your graph I would put a boost of 8db where Audyssey cut 8 db and so on. IME, it does not have to be exact. The time delay is also controllable through the MiniDSP. I am using Buttkicker LFE but it should work the same way.

He is not using a Y, he is using the sub out on his Oppo. This way he gets a signal not effected by audyssey. He only posted that graph to show what his room measures pre and post audyssey and the cuts that would be applied to the "Crowsons" if he did use a Y.

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post #291 of 481 Old 05-07-2014, 12:26 PM
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I am aware of that. I was pointing out one way to do it without a sub out.. It is not perfect but it has the advantage of working with all sources and not requiring a player equipped with a sub out.
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He is not using a Y, he is using the sub out on his Oppo. This way he gets a signal not effected by audyssey. He only posted that graph to show what his room measures pre and post audyssey and the cuts that would be applied to the "Crowsons" if he did use a Y.
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post #292 of 481 Old 05-07-2014, 12:29 PM
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I am aware of that. I was pointing out one way to do it without a sub out.. It is not perfect but it has the advantage of working with all sources and not requiring a player equipped with a sub out.

Ahh ok

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post #293 of 481 Old 05-11-2014, 06:40 AM
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I just added my first Crowson to my system and I am impressed so far. I am still tweaking the settings in my iNuke NU3000DSP, but I'll report back with my settings once I figure out my preferred setup. One thing I want to ensure is the proper timing between when I hear the sound from my sub and when the Crowson actuates. I can try to do that with some movies, but does anyone know of a good test clip that can help precisely dial in the delay?
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post #294 of 481 Old 05-18-2014, 07:16 AM
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I spent some time last night playing with the settings in the iNuke. I think I agree with many in this forum that a low-pass filter at 40 Hz is the most natural setting. I applied a Butterworth 12 dB/octave slope, so it still passes some higher frequencies but with less intensity. I tried a number of other options between 40 Hz and 80 Hz with varying slopes, but every time I came back to the 40Hz/12dB setting.

I also applied a dynamic EQ of 9 dB at 40 Hz with an LP12 filter at a threshold of -30 dB. This helps keep the Crowson's effect relatively constant across volume levels. I tend to agree with Craig that there is one "right" intensity for the Crowson and it should stay there. I generally listen below reference level, so that is likely coloring my perception on this issue. At some of my listening levels, the Crowson has a very limited effect without the dynamic EQ. I can understand how some people would like that, but on balance, I think it is better to keep it at one intensity.

The delay took some time to dial in well, but it now feels right. My pre-pro (Emotiva UMC-200) has two LFE outputs. I use one to feed my subwoofer's amp and one to feed the iNuke NU3000DSP driving the Crowson. There are so many delay difference in the chain to account for, as the amps likely have different internal delays and the cable runs are different lengths. The sub sits several feet from me, so the sound it produces takes time to reach me. And the Crowson takes some amount of time translate the electrical signal into motion and for me to then feel that motion. Finally, I haven't researched this, but I suspect that we perceive sound at a different time than we perceive the sound's shockwave on our bodies. To feel natural, I suspect the low-frequency sound from the subwoofer and the motion from the Crowson may need to reach me at different times. As complex as it is to try to calculate the correct delay to apply to the Crowson, setting the delay is actually easy. I just played some clips that had a staccato low-frequency moment, closed my eyes, and listened/felt the response. I dialed in various delays until it felt natural. Not very scientific, but I am happy with the results. For those looking for clips to dial in the delay, try the moment when the window blows out of the building about 30 seconds into The Dark Knight.

My chair is a Fusion Escape sold by Roman of Ultimate Home Entertainment. I tried placing the Crowson in a few places. The best effect was achieved on the main cross-brace that extends from the left side to the right side of the chair in the back. The effect was similar when placed in the left-back corner as the right-back corner when facing forward in the chair.

So far I have spent more time configuring the Crowson than I have spent watching movies with it. That's not to say configuring it was difficult or particularly time-consuming. I just haven't had much time for movies lately. Based on the scenes I tested, however, I think I will very much enjoy having it in my system.
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post #295 of 481 Old 05-31-2014, 12:08 PM
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It seems most of the positive Crowson reports come from users who are on concrete and trying to get back the tactile they are missing. Anyone on a wood suspended floor want to share their Crowson experience? I'm most interested in how well they blend with and/or enhance couch shake from the subs. Also, do they affect the amount of floor shake at all? Thanks!
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post #296 of 481 Old 06-17-2014, 08:25 PM
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Has anyone used these with Berkline 12000's? I emailed the attached pic below to Crowson last week. Still no response. My chairs have 6 support points, 4 on the frame and 2 on the armrest. The 2 on the armrest are much larger. It looks like I would need to buy 2 extra support feet for the armrest and make spacers to keep them all at the same height.

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post #297 of 481 Old 06-18-2014, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
Has anyone used these with Berkline 12000's? I emailed the attached pic below to Crowson last week. Still no response. My chairs have 6 support points, 4 on the frame and 2 on the armrest. The 2 on the armrest are much larger. It looks like I would need to buy 2 extra support feet for the armrest and make spacers to keep them all at the same height.

Attachment 123178
scratch previous reply...
replace all of the mounts with isolators except for one on the back right of the frame. put the transducer next to that one.
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post #298 of 481 Old 06-18-2014, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
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scratch previous reply...
replace all of the mounts with isolators except for one on the back right of the frame. put the transducer next to that one.
Like this?

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post #299 of 481 Old 06-18-2014, 09:19 AM
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looks like i mixed up the orientation... put it on the left there will be more pressure on it.
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post #300 of 481 Old 06-18-2014, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
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looks like i mixed up the orientation... put it on the left there will be more pressure on it.
Ok, thanks.

I have an EP4000 with one channel available and a minidsp for LPF. Anything else I need to get?
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