The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 12 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #331 of 354 Old 07-22-2014, 10:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MIkeDuke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: eastern PA
Posts: 6,239
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 72
Mission Impossible 4 Ghost Protocol+Crowson=. It's that simple.

It ain't easy being green.
My System
MIkeDuke is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #332 of 354 Old 07-22-2014, 11:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gpmbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,385
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post
I live in an apartment, with neighbors to the right, left and under me.
Will something like the Auralex isolation platform work?
I've had my subs on top of the Auralex and liked it but they wouldn't apply in this instance. The mini riser I mentioned would eliminate the only possible offense which was vibrations to the neighbors below while not compromising the performance of Crowson. Otherwise they are unobtrusive and only YOU will feel the tremors.
gpmbc is online now  
post #333 of 354 Old 07-23-2014, 04:04 PM
Senior Member
 
mbuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 299
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
vs. Buttkickers

Is there much difference between the Buttkickers and the Crawsons? The BK seems to be a bit cheaper (BKA300 wireless kit is what I'm looking at), but I'm wondering if Crawsons offer something the Buttkicker doesn't.

I've seen a few threads about both but they are very old threads and none that really compare the two with a definitive answer.

I was actually set on buying the BKA300 (it was recommended in a thread about reducing subwoofer output) but since its on backorder started to venture out.

FYI I don't have a couch, I have power recliners.
mbuck is offline  
post #334 of 354 Old 07-23-2014, 05:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gpmbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,385
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuck View Post
Is there much difference between the Buttkickers and the Crawsons? The BK seems to be a bit cheaper (BKA300 wireless kit is what I'm looking at), but I'm wondering if Crawsons offer something the Buttkicker doesn't.

I've seen a few threads about both but they are very old threads and none that really compare the two with a definitive answer.

I was actually set on buying the BKA300 (it was recommended in a thread about reducing subwoofer output) but since its on backorder started to venture out.

FYI I don't have a couch, I have power recliners.
I had the BKA300 at one point and I liked it, great bang for the buck and solid entry into the world of transducers. My main short coming was that it bottomed on deep/demanding material (maybe that could be remedied with a high pass filter) and although not bad, it at times would draw attention to itself with the sound of the internal piston hitting the metal housing and the transient response sometimes felt a tad behind. The Crowson is more expensive but it will handle the lowest frequencies without issue and has spot on transient response, very seamless in operation and will fool you into thinking your subs are doing the deed until you stand up.

I'd still take the BKA 300 over nothing for sure as it adds another dimension and it's fun when things start blowing up. It's just not as articulate as the Crowson nor will it handle the ultra low frequencies with the same authority. Just my opinion hope it helps.
gpmbc is online now  
post #335 of 354 Old 07-23-2014, 05:46 PM
Member
 
Mimioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
I had the BKA300 at one point and I liked it, great bang for the buck and solid entry into the world of transducers. My main short coming was that it bottomed on deep/demanding material but maybe that could be remedied with a high pass filter and although not bad, it at times would draw attention to itself. The Crowson is more expensive but it will handle the lowest frequencies without issue and has spot on transient response, very seamless in operation and will fool you into thinking your subs are doing the deed until you stand up.

I'd still take the BKA 300 over nothing for sure as it adds another dimension and it's fun when things start blowing up. It's just not as articulate as the Crowson nor will it handle the ultra low frequencies with the same authority. Just my opinion hope it helps.
I would agree with this statement too.
I have owned 2 Crowson systems and 1 Buttkicker system in my life.
Buttkicker is great if you're on a budget but doesn't approach the accuracy and depth of motion that you will get from the Crowson system.
In this example, you really do get what you pay for.
I heartily recommend saving the extra dollars and investing in the Crowsons - they will last you a lifetime.
Mimioguy is offline  
post #336 of 354 Old 07-23-2014, 07:40 PM
Senior Member
 
mbuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 299
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimioguy View Post
I would agree with this statement too.
I have owned 2 Crowson systems and 1 Buttkicker system in my life.
Buttkicker is great if you're on a budget but doesn't approach the accuracy and depth of motion that you will get from the Crowson system.
In this example, you really do get what you pay for.
I heartily recommend saving the extra dollars and investing in the Crowsons - they will last you a lifetime.
Very helpful. So with the Crowson, do I need on actuator for each seat, and then one amp to power all 7 (ultimately) of them? And buy them direct or is there a better source?

Seems with the BKA300 I get one for each set of seats though I've been told I could get one and while the one seat would get the most, the others would be pretty great too.
mbuck is offline  
post #337 of 354 Old 07-24-2014, 04:33 AM
Member
 
Mimioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuck View Post
Very helpful. So with the Crowson, do I need on actuator for each seat, and then one amp to power all 7 (ultimately) of them? And buy them direct or is there a better source?
I currently have three actuators on a three seater and one actuator on a recliner. Previously I've used two actuators on a three seater and everything worked fine.

The construction of your seating can make a difference. My three seater has solid wood frame and transmits the motion well. My single seat recliner has an internal metal spring frame that it sits on and so the motion felt there isn't as intense due to it traveling through three different materials (metal, wood, padding). This is by comparison though and not a bad thing - my three seater gets very, very intense.

I have bought mine direct from Randolph Crowson. Very efficient and helpful service. Always just a phone call away.
Mimioguy is offline  
post #338 of 354 Old 07-26-2014, 07:46 PM
Member
 
Mimioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I read about bypassing/disabling Audyssey earlier on this thread when using the Crowsons so I decided to A/B my setup to see what differences there were. I have never had any problems with the depth and range of the motion I've been feeling previously but wanted to check if I was legitimately missing out on frequencies of sound through my Crowsons with the Audyssey circuitry enabled.

After testing I can definitely say that Audyssey technology actually enhances the sensation of motion a little rather than limits or restricts it. Every setup and room is different so I think this definitely points to the fact that people should A/B test their setups to determine what the right mix of options are for them.

Thanks to the original posters that bought this to my attention.

More dramatically, while A/B testing for motion, I also heard the difference between Audyssey being on and off during audio playback. This is not something I've done previously as it's always just been on. The difference in audio quality is startling.
Mimioguy is offline  
post #339 of 354 Old 07-27-2014, 11:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,405
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 571
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
I hate how there appears to be no standardization with these transducers.

No "T/S" parameters, like we can find on speakers. No real information on the motor tech used (LMT, XBL^2, etc...).

I get the impression that the Crowson is like a pistion moving up and down, where items like the buttkicker and arua have a weight that spins to make the effect.

Why can I not find any pics or CAD drawings of the internals of any of the transducers?

Besides personal feedback from owners (which I appreciate), how can we really objectively break these products down?

Has anyone taken the time to tear one of these guys apart to check out the internals? When I get settled in my new place, I'm going to rip open one of my Aruas and post some pics for everyone.

Last edited by popalock; 07-27-2014 at 11:17 AM.
popalock is offline  
post #340 of 354 Old 07-27-2014, 01:50 PM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,747
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 208
"Has anyone taken the time to tear one of these guys apart to check out the internals?"


Here's several cross sections/images from Crowson's patent.


http://www.google.com/patents/US7069787
popalock likes this.

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
post #341 of 354 Old 07-27-2014, 04:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
atabea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post
"Has anyone taken the time to tear one of these guys apart to check out the internals?"


Here's several cross sections/images from Crowson's patent.


http://www.google.com/patents/US7069787


wish I was smart enough to know what all those diagrams mean and to understand the accompanying text. For those who can understand all this, what are your thoughts on the different operating principles (vs buttkickers, clarks etc.) ?
atabea is offline  
post #342 of 354 Old 07-28-2014, 09:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
coolcat4843's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 736
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimioguy View Post
More dramatically, while A/B testing for motion, I also heard the difference between Audyssey being on and off during audio playback. This is not something I've done previously as it's always just been on. The difference in audio quality is startling.

So you find with Audyssey on, the audio quality is better?

coolcat4843 is offline  
post #343 of 354 Old 07-28-2014, 10:30 AM
Member
 
Mimioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post
So you find with Audyssey on, the audio quality is better?
Definitely.
There are obvious limitations when you don't have a dedicated room geared for home theater. Audyssey seems to help fix these anomalies and make a soundtrack pop aurally - improving the ability to notice separate items sonically in the mix and generally making the sound clearer.
I'm not an audio engineer - so that's as technical as I get.

Something else I learned is that Audyssey Phase Matching Bass adds some punch to your Crowsons too. I'm still evaluating the setting but the difference is noticeable so if you have that feature available it might be worth experimenting with in your space.
Mimioguy is offline  
post #344 of 354 Old 07-28-2014, 10:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,405
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 571
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimioguy View Post
More dramatically, while A/B testing for motion, I also heard the difference between Audyssey being on and off during audio playback. This is not something I've done previously as it's always just been on. The difference in audio quality is startling.
Heard or felt? I've heard some versions of the Clark transducers actually make sound, that is not the case for the Crowson's is it?

I'm assuming you are just splitting the signal from your AVR into your transducer amp and it sounds like audy was attempting to compensate for your sub roll by boosting the lowend a bit.

I'd venture to say that if you had a setup like some of these nuts on here (4 x 18's or something), audy would be cutting the lowend vs. boosting. Make sense?

Nothing to be startled about. If you were to invest in a standalone DSP, you could manipulate your signal where it would REALLY "startle" you.
atabea likes this.

 

popalock is offline  
post #345 of 354 Old 07-28-2014, 10:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MIkeDuke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: eastern PA
Posts: 6,239
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 72
I just watched Inception again. I haven't watched it in a while but having the Crowson really made the movie much more involving. I am only using one for one of my Chairs powered by a Butt Kicker BKA-1000N amp. I have never experienced a Butt Kicker transducer so I can't compare. I just know that the Crowson is plenty good for me. Once I had Craig test it on my chair I knew I was getting it.

It ain't easy being green.
My System
MIkeDuke is offline  
post #346 of 354 Old 07-28-2014, 12:48 PM
Member
 
Mimioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Heard or felt? I've heard some versions of the Clark transducers actually make sound, that is not the case for the Crowson's is it?
Heard with my ears. Completely unrelated to my Crowsons.
My old buttkicker used to make sounds of protest when things got intense. I never hear a peep out of my Crowsons but I know they are there.
Mimioguy is offline  
post #347 of 354 Old 07-28-2014, 06:51 PM
Member
 
t231's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Is a Buttkicker BKA-1000 and a pair of Crowsons (plus cables) all you need to integrate these transducers into your HT? I've seen mention of preamps and just want to make sure I'm not missing something.

Also, what's the best way to wire two Crowson transducers with the BKA-1000? I'm assuming parallel but wanted to confirm.
t231 is offline  
post #348 of 354 Old 08-03-2014, 12:36 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
JapanDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Anyone know if you can or need to use Crowsons with D-Box?

My build thread

My 8 x RE XXX 18" Subwoofers, IB build
Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

Do you know what Nemesis means?

JapanDave is offline  
post #349 of 354 Old 08-03-2014, 10:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gpmbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,385
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 78
D Box moves in various planes while crowsons are just up and down. Movies encoded for D Box tells the chairs which direction to move based on the action up down, side to side, front to back. With only vertical movement you'd miss all that.
gpmbc is online now  
post #350 of 354 Old 08-03-2014, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,287
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post
Anyone know if you can or need to use Crowsons with D-Box?
They're not compatible to work together.

Have you actually experienced D-Box? If you haven't, I strongly suggest you do so ...BEFORE... you make a commitment to D-Box. I really enjoyed the effect of D-Box... for about 5 minutes. It's like a Disneyland ride... lots of forward/back, left/right, up/down motion. It's a fun ride.. for about 5 minutes. Beyond that, I found it to be a major distraction to my experience of the movie. It became the primary focus instead of a device to add to the "suspension of disbelief." In fact, after about 5 minutes, I started to feel slightly nauseous and motion sick. The biggest distraction is that you end up having to move your head to keep your eyes on the screen while your position is constantly being slid around. Thats probably what lead to the motion sick feeling. I couldn't imagine having to experience that every time I wanted to watch a movie. Personally, I would not find that enjoyable. OTOH, if I had spent multi-thousands of $$$ for the D-Box seats, I certainly wouldn't want to turn it off because it made me motion sick.

My Crowson's are so well integrated with my subs that they *increase* the immersiveness, (aka the "suspension of disbelief"), without ever being a distraction. I wouldn't trade my Crowson's for D-Box, even if I could get D-Box for free. I know lots of people love D-Box, and that's great for them. Me... I'll pass. You should make up your own mind... and you should TRY them before you buy them.

Craig

Edit: I also experienced D-Box with a auto racing game chair. Now THAT experience was really cool. You actually "felt" the stiffness of the suspension of the car, and you could feel the cornering forces and the "grade" of the hills. For that application, I could see it being a very beneficial addition to the experience.
Bunga99 and atabea like this.

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
post #351 of 354 Old 08-04-2014, 07:50 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
JapanDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post
They're not compatible to work together.

Have you actually experienced D-Box? If you haven't, I strongly suggest you do so ...BEFORE... you make a commitment to D-Box. I really enjoyed the effect of D-Box... for about 5 minutes. It's like a Disneyland ride... lots of forward/back, left/right, up/down motion. It's a fun ride.. for about 5 minutes. Beyond that, I found it to be a major distraction to my experience of the movie. It became the primary focus instead of a device to add to the "suspension of disbelief." In fact, after about 5 minutes, I started to feel slightly nauseous and motion sick. The biggest distraction is that you end up having to move your head to keep your eyes on the screen while your position is constantly being slid around. Thats probably what lead to the motion sick feeling. I couldn't imagine having to experience that every time I wanted to watch a movie. Personally, I would not find that enjoyable. OTOH, if I had spent multi-thousands of $$$ for the D-Box seats, I certainly wouldn't want to turn it off because it made me motion sick.

My Crowson's are so well integrated with my subs that they *increase* the immersiveness, (aka the "suspension of disbelief"), without ever being a distraction. I wouldn't trade my Crowson's for D-Box, even if I could get D-Box for free. I know lots of people love D-Box, and that's great for them. Me... I'll pass. You should make up your own mind... and you should TRY them before you buy them.

Craig

Edit: I also experienced D-Box with a auto racing game chair. Now THAT experience was really cool. You actually "felt" the stiffness of the suspension of the car, and you could feel the cornering forces and the "grade" of the hills. For that application, I could see it being a very beneficial addition to the experience.
I saw Godzilla at IMAX the other day, and I loved the experience. I am guessing that D-Box for home is as good or even better as those chairs were not the best. Talking about nauseous, my screen is 14ft wide and sit 10 ft from it, and I sometimes get a little nauseous from Gravity, cloverfield and movies like that. I found that D-Box did not distract me me, but did keep me on the edge of my seat.

My build thread

My 8 x RE XXX 18" Subwoofers, IB build
Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

Do you know what Nemesis means?

JapanDave is offline  
post #352 of 354 Old 08-12-2014, 05:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
atabea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Well, after months of reading and researching all the different kinds of bass "shakers," I have pulled the trigger on Some Crowson Actuators. I ordered three actuators as well as the Crowson 501 Amplifier. I only have a three-seater sofa and a single chair, so three should be enough for now. I'd like to thank Craig John for taking the time to answer all of my questions and a big shout out to Notnyt for his "thoughts" on how his Crowsons contribute to his world class system. As noted several times in this thread, Mr. Randolph Crowson was a pleasure to deal with. He is obviously very knowledgeable and, clearly, very helpful. And, he even gave me a sweet "AVS" discount

I can't wait to receive them and start the process of integrating them into my system.

Cheers
atabea is offline  
post #353 of 354 Old 08-13-2014, 04:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,405
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 571
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
popalock is offline  
post #354 of 354 Old 08-29-2014, 06:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
atabea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post
Well, after months of reading and researching all the different kinds of bass "shakers," I have pulled the trigger on Some Crowson Actuators. I ordered three actuators as well as the Crowson 501 Amplifier. I only have a three-seater sofa and a single chair, so three should be enough for now. I'd like to thank Craig John for taking the time to answer all of my questions and a big shout out to Notnyt for his "thoughts" on how his Crowsons contribute to his world class system. As noted several times in this thread, Mr. Randolph Crowson was a pleasure to deal with. He is obviously very knowledgeable and, clearly, very helpful. And, he even gave me a sweet "AVS" discount

I can't wait to receive them and start the process of integrating them into my system.

Cheers
Well, my Crowsons will be picked up from Buffalo and should be delivered to me on Sunday. I will run Anthem Room Correction and take a look at the graphs to see what kind of boosts/cuts are applied. In the event that there are any unacceptable cuts, I will have to think about getting a Blu ray player with analog outs to ensure an unmolested signal gets to the Crowson Amp. The Oppo is really a large chunk of change just to get those analog outputs so I was wondering if this Bluray player will suffice. http://www.amazon.ca/Samsung-BD-F750...A3B09Q3X7YELPQ

It has 7.1 analog outs but I just want to be sure that the analog and HDMI outs are both active simultaneously.

thanks
atabea is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off