The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 347 Old 07-22-2014, 10:53 AM
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Mission Impossible 4 Ghost Protocol+Crowson=. It's that simple.

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post #332 of 347 Old 07-22-2014, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post
I live in an apartment, with neighbors to the right, left and under me.
Will something like the Auralex isolation platform work?
I've had my subs on top of the Auralex and liked it but they wouldn't apply in this instance. The mini riser I mentioned would eliminate the only possible offense which was vibrations to the neighbors below while not compromising the performance of Crowson. Otherwise they are unobtrusive and only YOU will feel the tremors.
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post #333 of 347 Old 07-23-2014, 04:04 PM
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vs. Buttkickers

Is there much difference between the Buttkickers and the Crawsons? The BK seems to be a bit cheaper (BKA300 wireless kit is what I'm looking at), but I'm wondering if Crawsons offer something the Buttkicker doesn't.

I've seen a few threads about both but they are very old threads and none that really compare the two with a definitive answer.

I was actually set on buying the BKA300 (it was recommended in a thread about reducing subwoofer output) but since its on backorder started to venture out.

FYI I don't have a couch, I have power recliners.
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post #334 of 347 Old 07-23-2014, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuck View Post
Is there much difference between the Buttkickers and the Crawsons? The BK seems to be a bit cheaper (BKA300 wireless kit is what I'm looking at), but I'm wondering if Crawsons offer something the Buttkicker doesn't.

I've seen a few threads about both but they are very old threads and none that really compare the two with a definitive answer.

I was actually set on buying the BKA300 (it was recommended in a thread about reducing subwoofer output) but since its on backorder started to venture out.

FYI I don't have a couch, I have power recliners.
I had the BKA300 at one point and I liked it, great bang for the buck and solid entry into the world of transducers. My main short coming was that it bottomed on deep/demanding material (maybe that could be remedied with a high pass filter) and although not bad, it at times would draw attention to itself with the sound of the internal piston hitting the metal housing and the transient response sometimes felt a tad behind. The Crowson is more expensive but it will handle the lowest frequencies without issue and has spot on transient response, very seamless in operation and will fool you into thinking your subs are doing the deed until you stand up.

I'd still take the BKA 300 over nothing for sure as it adds another dimension and it's fun when things start blowing up. It's just not as articulate as the Crowson nor will it handle the ultra low frequencies with the same authority. Just my opinion hope it helps.
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post #335 of 347 Old 07-23-2014, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
I had the BKA300 at one point and I liked it, great bang for the buck and solid entry into the world of transducers. My main short coming was that it bottomed on deep/demanding material but maybe that could be remedied with a high pass filter and although not bad, it at times would draw attention to itself. The Crowson is more expensive but it will handle the lowest frequencies without issue and has spot on transient response, very seamless in operation and will fool you into thinking your subs are doing the deed until you stand up.

I'd still take the BKA 300 over nothing for sure as it adds another dimension and it's fun when things start blowing up. It's just not as articulate as the Crowson nor will it handle the ultra low frequencies with the same authority. Just my opinion hope it helps.
I would agree with this statement too.
I have owned 2 Crowson systems and 1 Buttkicker system in my life.
Buttkicker is great if you're on a budget but doesn't approach the accuracy and depth of motion that you will get from the Crowson system.
In this example, you really do get what you pay for.
I heartily recommend saving the extra dollars and investing in the Crowsons - they will last you a lifetime.
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post #336 of 347 Old 07-23-2014, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimioguy View Post
I would agree with this statement too.
I have owned 2 Crowson systems and 1 Buttkicker system in my life.
Buttkicker is great if you're on a budget but doesn't approach the accuracy and depth of motion that you will get from the Crowson system.
In this example, you really do get what you pay for.
I heartily recommend saving the extra dollars and investing in the Crowsons - they will last you a lifetime.
Very helpful. So with the Crowson, do I need on actuator for each seat, and then one amp to power all 7 (ultimately) of them? And buy them direct or is there a better source?

Seems with the BKA300 I get one for each set of seats though I've been told I could get one and while the one seat would get the most, the others would be pretty great too.
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post #337 of 347 Old 07-24-2014, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mbuck View Post
Very helpful. So with the Crowson, do I need on actuator for each seat, and then one amp to power all 7 (ultimately) of them? And buy them direct or is there a better source?
I currently have three actuators on a three seater and one actuator on a recliner. Previously I've used two actuators on a three seater and everything worked fine.

The construction of your seating can make a difference. My three seater has solid wood frame and transmits the motion well. My single seat recliner has an internal metal spring frame that it sits on and so the motion felt there isn't as intense due to it traveling through three different materials (metal, wood, padding). This is by comparison though and not a bad thing - my three seater gets very, very intense.

I have bought mine direct from Randolph Crowson. Very efficient and helpful service. Always just a phone call away.
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post #338 of 347 Old 07-26-2014, 07:46 PM
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I read about bypassing/disabling Audyssey earlier on this thread when using the Crowsons so I decided to A/B my setup to see what differences there were. I have never had any problems with the depth and range of the motion I've been feeling previously but wanted to check if I was legitimately missing out on frequencies of sound through my Crowsons with the Audyssey circuitry enabled.

After testing I can definitely say that Audyssey technology actually enhances the sensation of motion a little rather than limits or restricts it. Every setup and room is different so I think this definitely points to the fact that people should A/B test their setups to determine what the right mix of options are for them.

Thanks to the original posters that bought this to my attention.

More dramatically, while A/B testing for motion, I also heard the difference between Audyssey being on and off during audio playback. This is not something I've done previously as it's always just been on. The difference in audio quality is startling.
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post #339 of 347 Old 07-27-2014, 11:12 AM
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I hate how there appears to be no standardization with these transducers.

No "T/S" parameters, like we can find on speakers. No real information on the motor tech used (LMT, XBL^2, etc...).

I get the impression that the Crowson is like a pistion moving up and down, where items like the buttkicker and arua have a weight that spins to make the effect.

Why can I not find any pics or CAD drawings of the internals of any of the transducers?

Besides personal feedback from owners (which I appreciate), how can we really objectively break these products down?

Has anyone taken the time to tear one of these guys apart to check out the internals? When I get settled in my new place, I'm going to rip open one of my Aruas and post some pics for everyone.

Last edited by popalock; 07-27-2014 at 11:17 AM.
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post #340 of 347 Old 07-27-2014, 01:50 PM
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"Has anyone taken the time to tear one of these guys apart to check out the internals?"


Here's several cross sections/images from Crowson's patent.


http://www.google.com/patents/US7069787
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post #341 of 347 Old 07-27-2014, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post
"Has anyone taken the time to tear one of these guys apart to check out the internals?"


Here's several cross sections/images from Crowson's patent.


http://www.google.com/patents/US7069787


wish I was smart enough to know what all those diagrams mean and to understand the accompanying text. For those who can understand all this, what are your thoughts on the different operating principles (vs buttkickers, clarks etc.) ?
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post #342 of 347 Old 07-28-2014, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimioguy View Post
More dramatically, while A/B testing for motion, I also heard the difference between Audyssey being on and off during audio playback. This is not something I've done previously as it's always just been on. The difference in audio quality is startling.

So you find with Audyssey on, the audio quality is better?

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post #343 of 347 Old 07-28-2014, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post
So you find with Audyssey on, the audio quality is better?
Definitely.
There are obvious limitations when you don't have a dedicated room geared for home theater. Audyssey seems to help fix these anomalies and make a soundtrack pop aurally - improving the ability to notice separate items sonically in the mix and generally making the sound clearer.
I'm not an audio engineer - so that's as technical as I get.

Something else I learned is that Audyssey Phase Matching Bass adds some punch to your Crowsons too. I'm still evaluating the setting but the difference is noticeable so if you have that feature available it might be worth experimenting with in your space.
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post #344 of 347 Old 07-28-2014, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimioguy View Post
More dramatically, while A/B testing for motion, I also heard the difference between Audyssey being on and off during audio playback. This is not something I've done previously as it's always just been on. The difference in audio quality is startling.
Heard or felt? I've heard some versions of the Clark transducers actually make sound, that is not the case for the Crowson's is it?

I'm assuming you are just splitting the signal from your AVR into your transducer amp and it sounds like audy was attempting to compensate for your sub roll by boosting the lowend a bit.

I'd venture to say that if you had a setup like some of these nuts on here (4 x 18's or something), audy would be cutting the lowend vs. boosting. Make sense?

Nothing to be startled about. If you were to invest in a standalone DSP, you could manipulate your signal where it would REALLY "startle" you.
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post #345 of 347 Old 07-28-2014, 10:56 AM
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I just watched Inception again. I haven't watched it in a while but having the Crowson really made the movie much more involving. I am only using one for one of my Chairs powered by a Butt Kicker BKA-1000N amp. I have never experienced a Butt Kicker transducer so I can't compare. I just know that the Crowson is plenty good for me. Once I had Craig test it on my chair I knew I was getting it.

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post #346 of 347 Old 07-28-2014, 12:48 PM
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Heard or felt? I've heard some versions of the Clark transducers actually make sound, that is not the case for the Crowson's is it?
Heard with my ears. Completely unrelated to my Crowsons.
My old buttkicker used to make sounds of protest when things got intense. I never hear a peep out of my Crowsons but I know they are there.
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post #347 of 347 Old 07-28-2014, 06:51 PM
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Is a Buttkicker BKA-1000 and a pair of Crowsons (plus cables) all you need to integrate these transducers into your HT? I've seen mention of preamps and just want to make sure I'm not missing something.

Also, what's the best way to wire two Crowson transducers with the BKA-1000? I'm assuming parallel but wanted to confirm.
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