The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 480 Old 10-16-2014, 08:23 AM
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Who is doing Stereo Bass vs Mono?

And is it worth it?

Can the D-501 Amp only support 4 actuators? or could I get away with it supporting 6?
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post #452 of 480 Old 10-16-2014, 09:04 AM
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Only 4 actuators with the 501. Mono for me
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post #453 of 480 Old 10-16-2014, 10:42 AM
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Thanks! I will give that a try on the weekend. My plan is to keep my BK LFE installed. I hope it won't affect how it works.
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My seat bottom looks similar to yours so in that scenario I cut out a piece of wood (pretty sure it was 3/4" thick) the same size from left to right and top to bottom as where your isolator feet are attached. Get some longer bolts/screws and drill the isolator feet into the wood then into the chair frame as you have now. For me, this eliminated any localization and gives a nice solid area for the transducers to have contact with. Then I have a 1/4"piece of ply that the isolator feet and transducers rest on.
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post #454 of 480 Old 10-16-2014, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Who is doing Stereo Bass vs Mono?

And is it worth it?

Can the D-501 Amp only support 4 actuators? or could I get away with it supporting 6?
There is *very* little content below 80 Hz that is recorded in "stereo." Humans can't hear directionality below 80 Hz anyway, so any directional cues in that bandwidth are not recognized by human listeners. Therefore, recording engineers don't bother recording "non-correlated" content,(or content that is different enough to allow for detection of direction), in the the mains channels. They just record all the bass as "dual-mono."

Most of us low pass our transducers well below 80 Hz, far below where there might be directional content. If there is no content in the transducer's pass band that has directional content, there is no benefit to running them in "stereo."

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post #455 of 480 Old 10-16-2014, 11:41 AM
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I found out that the D-501 is a mono design only, so I guess I don't need to worry about it.

Craig what is your final low pass setting?

Do you route only the LFE?

Or do you also set all the speakers to small in the OPPO and route the bass management from them as well.
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post #456 of 480 Old 10-16-2014, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
I found out that the D-501 is a mono design only, so I guess I don't need to worry about it.

Craig what is your final low pass setting?

Do you route only the LFE?

Or do you also set all the speakers to small in the OPPO and route the bass management from them as well.
I low pass at 40 Hz. All speakers "Small".

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post #457 of 480 Old 10-16-2014, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
Can't stress it enough, if you're transducers are resting on carpet, try them resting on a solid surface. After placing mine on some 1/4" plywood, they feel much more tactile, I'm feeling subtle details I didn't before and ultra low frequencies (HTTYD and TIH) are much more pronounced. I'm enjoying them all over again testing out all kinds of clips .
I did that too on my lazy boy loveseat recliner and you are right it made a noticeable improvement. I now have HT leather seating for my main seats and I have the Crowson on carpet again. The thing is the Crowson is better with the leather seats sitting on carpet than it was on the boards under the fabric love seat. I'll try the boards with the leather seats sometime soon but I'm not too motivated since it's so good as is.

Also, the bass from my mains and subs gives a better feel with the leather seats too. Mark Seaton told me that leather is better for tactile feel than cloth and he is right. I may have mentioned this already in this thread... I'm starting to mix up what I said and where.
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post #458 of 480 Old 10-16-2014, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
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Also, the bass from my mains and subs gives a better feel with the leather seats too. Mark Seaton told me that leather is better for tactile feel than cloth and he is right. I may have mentioned this already in this thread... I'm starting to mix up what I said and where.
I'm glad you mentioned this and I happened to stumble in this thread and read it! I have been using a cloth sofa for 12 years now, but I have a leather one I can put in its place if it will give an even better tactile sensation with my subs and Buttkickers which it sounds like it will? Guess I should swap it out a try out the leather sofa!

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post #459 of 480 Old 10-16-2014, 07:02 PM
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I'm glad you mentioned this and I happened to stumble in this thread and read it! I have been using a clot sofa for 12 years now, but I have a leather one I can put in its place if it will give an even better tactile sensation with my subs and Buttkickers which it sounds like it will? Guess I should swap it out a try out the leather sofa!
Do it!! Let me know if you feel a difference too. I'm on concrete so every little bit helps.
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post #460 of 480 Old 10-16-2014, 07:07 PM
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Do it!! Let me know if you feel a difference too. I'm on concrete so every little bit helps.
Thanks Carp! I will move the leather sofa down when I have time/motivation and give it a shot. I am also on carpet over concrete so any improvements I can get would be welcomed.
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post #461 of 480 Old 10-16-2014, 07:13 PM
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I hope you notice a difference or you'll be pis*ed at me for making you move your couches!!
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post #462 of 480 Old 10-16-2014, 08:02 PM
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I hope you notice a difference or you'll be pis*ed at me for making you move your couches!!
Ha! No worries man if it doesn't pan out for some reason (which it sounds like it will) as this leather couch is more comfortable anyway so I have additional motives for doing this swap.......not too mention my GF HATES the cloth couch that is down there now and has been pushing for a new one. If I can get more tactile feel, more comfort and a more satisfied female (), this will be a great move! I'll be sure to report back though when I try it.

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post #463 of 480 Old 10-29-2014, 09:03 AM
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I am a new crowson recruit and a happy one at that.

My set up includes a JTR Cap., two original buttkickers built into my second row platform (powered by behringer 2500). I also had a BK/couch kit sitting behind on couch, which is on the platform. I added the "couch bk" to add an extra ooompph to my watching experience.

I stumbled across a post that SOWK made about keeping his subs, but adding some crowson's. I don't spend a lot of time in the sub forum, so I looked up this master thread. After reading entire thread, I was wowed by everyone's experience and the level of admiration for the product.

Last Friday, I got my single crowson actuator and after some dialing it in...was REALLY IMPRESSED by the immersive experience the crowson provided for my movie experience. It was like discovering the love of some movies for the first time. I was like a kid watching Jurassic Park for the first time. The T-Rex scenes were really exciting again. The accurate reproduction of the bass signals blew me away. One member described it like sitting on top of the sub...perfect description.

One concern I had was using both the BK's in my platform and the crowson behind my couch...but the two of them together played perfectly. I felt the rumble under my feet and the accurate movement of the bass signal through the rest of my body. WOW was my reaction throughout this last several days of watching movies.

One thing I need to get off my chest was a lesson learned by reading this thread.....

I HAD originally (before last Friday ) used the signal generated by my Anthem sub output for my sub AND BK's....yikes what a mistake. Running the sub signal from the OPPO Blu ray directly to my BK's and the crowson made all the difference in the world. My BK's came back to life. I'm more than a little ashamed not to have seen the flaw in my set up before reading this thread. But, that's whats great about this forum...there are opportunities to learn something new everyday from each other. Time here at AVS is time well spent.

I now am running a sub cable through my attic to the back of the room and out to the crowson (and at the rack to the BK's amp).

Thanks for introducing me to this great product. Saving pennies now to buy another one.

Ron
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post #464 of 480 Old 10-29-2014, 12:36 PM
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I have now had a chance to tune in my two crowsons and I also added a second buttkicker LFE for the MLP so now I have 4 transducers on that one seat alone

Here are my impressions of so far..

The crowsons are different than the buttkickers in how realistic and accurate they are. Their extension seems better and they don't bottom out.. They can be left on with all kinds of movies even at higher crossovers and they won't distract from the movie. On the other hand they tend to run warm at higher levels and with movies that are full of LFE. There is a good chance the protection circuits will kick in and they will stop moving until they cool down with bass filed movies (Happened with me in the hulk, Godzilla).

The buttkickers definitely win in the brute force department. They run super cool. I would describe them as being close to a theme park ride rather than accurate.. They are a lot of fun with certain movies but not with all of them. Adding a second one for the seat was not an overkill and in fact it helped with the bottoming out issues.. I tried some of the <10hz scenes (Irene, Edge of tomorrow, WOTW, Hulk) and I haven't had them bottom out on me even at high levels.

I am keeping both.. Can't give one up in favor of the other.

Has any one tried the Earthquake Q10B and can provide feedback on how it compares to the crowsons and the BKLFE?
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post #465 of 480 Old 10-29-2014, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
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I am keeping both.. Can't give one up in favor of the other.
+1 Good post ahmedreda...

I have two BK LFE units on one chair for my wife and two Crowson units on my chair. I did tweak the DSP settings on the Inuke 3000 amp to try and make the BK more like the Crowsons but in the end, the BK units are an "amusement ride" vs. the Crowsons...
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post #466 of 480 Old 10-29-2014, 07:12 PM
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+1 Good post ahmedreda...

I have two BK LFE units on one chair for my wife and two Crowson units on my chair. I did tweak the DSP settings on the Inuke 3000 amp to try and make the BK more like the Crowsons but in the end, the BK units are an "amusement ride" vs. the Crowsons...
Two BK's for the wife, huh? By her request? Does she "enjoy" the ride?
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post #467 of 480 Old 10-30-2014, 07:42 AM
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Two BK's for the wife, huh? By her request?
Yes, we each had a single BK Advance LFE in our chairs and when I tried out the Crowsons, she liked the shaking more so I installed both BK units in her chair and I took both Crowsons for mine chair...win win.

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Does she "enjoy" the ride?
Always...
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post #468 of 480 Old 11-03-2014, 12:47 AM
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Just a quick question, how do I know if my amp is clipping with the Crowson? I'm using a Dayton Audio APA 150, it doesn't appear to have a clip LED.
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post #469 of 480 Old 11-03-2014, 06:30 AM
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Just a quick question, how do I know if my amp is clipping with the Crowson? I'm using a Dayton Audio APA 150, it doesn't appear to have a clip LED.
Before the amp I'm using now, I had an amp that wasn't up to the task. It made it feel like the transducers were bottoming out.
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post #470 of 480 Old 11-03-2014, 01:06 PM
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I want to order some Crowson actuators, but have a few questions.

1) I have a Panasonic DMP-BDT330 Blu-ray player. It does not have analog outputs. However, it does have dual HDMI outputs. One is dedicated to audio. Can I somehow convert this to RCA and use it for the Crowson? (Audio Converter from Monoprice: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2 )

2) How does one use the actuators with a Roku or HTPC if using an Oppo to supply the LFE to the Crowson AMP?

3) Below is a picture of my couch. My idea is to put an actuator where the red arrows are and use isolators for the rest of the couch. I am not concerned about providing the far left two seats tactical motion from the Crowsons. Will three actuators be sufficient?


Plan: Three actuators driven by one channel of an iNuke 6000DSP. I will also be putting two 18" near field subs behind the couch.


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post #471 of 480 Old 11-03-2014, 05:01 PM
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Not sure about the converter although I'm curious myself. Re HTPC, you can just use a y adaptor off the lfe of your receiver and the transducer amp will receive the same signal as the rest of the lfe. My subs are nearfield as well so that makes setting the distance a non issue. This is critical because if you have varied enough distances, the transducers will not feel in sync with your subs. I also eq manually before running the automated set up from my receiver. Since the subs and transducers share the same signal, this minimizes the Eq sent to the transducers which is critical as well because you will feel the inconsistencies. Straight signal with no eq is obviously the cleanest but minimal eq as I mentioned doesn't adversely effect my movie experience. Btw, couldn't see your pic.
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post #472 of 480 Old 11-03-2014, 05:16 PM
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I have four 18" subs up front too, so I will have to adjust delay. I guess I could switch from using the BD HDMI output for discs and the splitter cable for Roku and HTPC. This way I would get the full experience when watching blu-rays / DVD and the AVR volume won't effect the Crowsons. The Roku and HTPC wouldn't get the untouched signal, but I generally don't expect the best quality when watching either.

Are you using Tapatalk? I can see the picture on my laptop, but cannot see it on my iPad using Tapatalk.
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post #473 of 480 Old 11-03-2014, 05:40 PM
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I'm using the mobile app.
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post #474 of 480 Old 11-03-2014, 05:45 PM
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Btw, I get the same quality from my HTPC as my blu ray player. Both sound and look the same given lossless audio and 1080p pic.
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post #475 of 480 Old 11-11-2014, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
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Btw, I get the same quality from my HTPC as my blu ray player. Both sound and look the same given lossless audio and 1080p pic.
so you are using the lfe signal out from the avr?
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post #476 of 480 Old 11-11-2014, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sslv2pwned View Post
I want to order some Crowson actuators, but have a few questions.

1) I have a Panasonic DMP-BDT330 Blu-ray player. It does not have analog outputs. However, it does have dual HDMI outputs. One is dedicated to audio. Can I somehow convert this to RCA and use it for the Crowson? (Audio Converter from Monoprice: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2 )
You'll only get 2-channel output, no LFE channel.

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2) How does one use the actuators with a Roku or HTPC if using an Oppo to supply the LFE to the Crowson AMP?
If the Roku and/or HTPC have HDMI outputs, and the Oppo has HDMI inputs, you run the Roku/HTPC via HDMI into the Oppo and then proceed to use the analog subwoofer output of the Oppo. I've described my technique for doing this several times, most recently here: A comparison of three tactile transducers - ButtKicker Mini LFE vs. Clark Synthesis TST209 vs. Aura Bass Shaker Pro

Quote:
Originally Posted by sslv2pwned View Post
3) Below is a picture of my couch. My idea is to put an actuator where the red arrows are and use isolators for the rest of the couch. I am not concerned about providing the far left two seats tactical motion from the Crowsons. Will three actuators be sufficient?


Plan: Three actuators driven by one channel of an iNuke 6000DSP. I will also be putting two 18" near field subs behind the couch.

I can't see your pic so I can't comment on your install. However, I will say that my experience with driving an iNuke amp off the analog subwoofer output of an Oppo was not successful. The Oppo puts out to low a signal for the input of the iNuke, (consumer gear vs. "pro" gear.) It worked fine off the subwoofer output of the pre/pro as long as I had the volume turned up, but it wouldn't work with the fixed output of the Oppo. I couldn't make it work and ended up sending the iNuke back. My experience and YMMV.

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post #477 of 480 Old 11-19-2014, 11:16 AM
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I have to reiterate what Craig John has said many times over about running the transducers free of room correction. This morning I was trying to implement some surround back speakers and couldn't do a quick listen without disengaging Audyssey. In the process of listening to several scenes over again, I got swept up in the experience and went all in and turned on the Crowsons. The feel of the transducers was definitely enhanced. I felt more subtle details, more extension and they felt even more powerful. This has confirmed that from this point I will run my transducers free of room correction. Looks like an Oppo 103 is on my short list.
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post #478 of 480 Old 11-19-2014, 11:53 AM
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I sort of painted my self in a corner because I really wanted a server and that meant that I could no longer run my Crowson off the oppo but had to run it from my Integra. I am really still satisfied with how it works and Craig was over this past Sat and he did not seem to complain. I just liked having it not connected to the MV before but now I have to be a little more careful. But on my one seat it is really fantastic. I could not believe what was happening in the begining of EOT . That really freaked me out.

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post #479 of 480 Old 11-20-2014, 08:58 AM
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I like having my Crowson connected to the master volume. When I listen to music I am constantly changing the master volume depending on song, or even parts of songs, so I like it that the amount of output from the Crowson changes with the volume.

I don't use any kind of auto EQ so I don't have to worry about that. I do have to add in more delay to the inukedsp that powers the it so that the feeling of the Crowson hits me the same time as the audible bass.
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post #480 of 480 Old 11-20-2014, 10:59 AM
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Having them tied to the master volume has never bothered me either but it'll be fixed now. I ordered an oppo yesterday. At least I can still adjust the transducers by remote if needed since the Crowson amp has one.
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