The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 19 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #541 of 595 Old 03-28-2015, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Interested...2, possibly 16...
Well, popalock, sir...you could single-handedly (?) begin to make this worthwhile.
If you get a sec, zip me a PM with your dreams, errrrr...plans.
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post #542 of 595 Old 03-28-2015, 05:21 PM
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I have three crowsons now and I would interested in a fourth. The price would have to be good enough to offset the low Canadian Dollar though. BTW, I can't imagine my HT without Crowsons. Ever!
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post #543 of 595 Old 03-28-2015, 05:40 PM
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Just about everyone that gets these raves about their performance, but not the price...
Unless the company is making huge margins on branding/pricing exclusivity, hopefully we could make something happen and get more of these into people's hands....then more of us could add to this great thread that @CraigJohn started.
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post #544 of 595 Old 03-28-2015, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah450 View Post
Just about everyone that gets these raves about their performance, but not the price...
Unless the company is making huge margins on branding/pricing exclusivity, hopefully we could make something happen and get more of these into people's hands....then more of us could add to this great thread that @CraigJohn started.
The trick with crowsons is that they have to be set up just right and that takes some effort. With the help of Craig John, I was able to dial them in with pinpoint accuracy. Despite the high price of admission, I truly believe they are worth every penny.
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post #545 of 595 Old 03-28-2015, 06:43 PM
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@atabea ...can you speak at all to the concern some have of running Crowsons on a concrete slab surface (obviously, a carpeted concrete surface most of the time)?
Issues with seating surface receiving motion but feet on ground not feeling that?
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post #546 of 595 Old 03-28-2015, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah450 View Post
@atabea ...can you speak at all to the concern some have of running Crowsons on a concrete slab surface (obviously, a carpeted concrete surface most of the time)?
Issues with seating surface receiving motion but feet on ground not feeling that?
Not atabea, but I can address that...

I originally had my Crowsons directly on my floor, (carpet over concrete.) At the same time, I also had a friend with a powerful subwoofer system on a suspended floor. Both systems provided similar tactile response. The key difference I noted between the tactile response of his system and the tactile response of my system was that I could sense the floor motion in my feet in his system, but not in mine. It felt odd getting tactile response through my entire body, but not feeling anything through my feet on the floor.

My seats reclince, so my initial "solution" was to just recline the seats so my feet weren't on the floor. Then it felt very natural.

Eventually, the more permanent and complete solution was to build a suspended riser for my seating. The Crowson's shake the seating AND the riser, so I get tactile response through my body and my feet.

Just to be clear, no tactile transducer/shaker that is attached only to the seats will provide tactile response to the feet unless the seating is reclined. For *any* tactile transducer to shake the body as well as the floor/feet, it needs to be attached to a shakeable floor, (i.e., a riser), as well as the seats.

I wouldn't let the "concern" about tactile response not being sensed through the feet be a deterrent to the use of the Crowson's, or any other shaker/tactile actuator. The sensation they add is beneficial, even if the feet aren't included.

Craig
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post #547 of 595 Old 03-29-2015, 04:49 AM
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Thanks for weighing in, Craig!
With a Crowson group buy being bandied about, what other concern would someone have outside of hardware set-up?


(as I think more about what you wrote...Crowsons for my seats on the concrete...and one for each of my feet...hmmmm...)
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post #548 of 595 Old 03-29-2015, 05:45 AM
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If a group buy is happening, please count me in. I have a few Crowsons, but will be getting 5 more In the near future.
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post #549 of 595 Old 03-29-2015, 06:27 AM
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I'm interested in a pair of crowsons as well. Probably time to do a little more reading through this thread.
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post #550 of 595 Old 03-29-2015, 01:18 PM
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Is someone keeping tabs on the numbers? How many do we need before approaching Crowson?

Put me down for 4.

Question... I will need to buy an AMP. Will an iNuke 3000 be good for four or should I just get a 6000?

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post #551 of 595 Old 03-29-2015, 01:29 PM
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Waiting for a couple of fellas to get back to my PMs, but looks like there is enough genuine, ready to put money down interest for me to at least take some time to contact Crowson.
They are Pacific Time I believe.
Will keep y'all posted...and move this to a separate thread if good news?
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post #552 of 595 Old 03-29-2015, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blah450 View Post
Waiting for a couple of fellas to get back to my PMs, but looks like there is enough genuine, ready to put money down interest for me to at least take some time to contact Crowson.
They are Pacific Time I believe.
Will keep y'all posted...and move this to a separate thread if good news?
I am in for 2 .

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post #553 of 595 Old 03-29-2015, 01:55 PM
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Last time this was discussed, Randolph said a group buy would not be possible.. It doesn't hurt to ask may be something has changed.
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post #554 of 595 Old 03-29-2015, 05:12 PM
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Hmmm...did not know until now that @gpmbc had reached out to Randolph. Have just pmed gpmbc to ask for details. Will keep all posted when any new developments.
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post #555 of 595 Old 03-30-2015, 08:02 PM
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Hey, just stumbled onto this. I didn't have much luck but maybe a new/different pitch man with significant numbers to show interest might yield a better outcome. Certainly seems like a lot of guys wanna act on this. Btw blah, I never got a PM if you sent one.
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post #556 of 595 Old 03-31-2015, 04:09 AM
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gpmbc....seems like a bunch of my PMs did not go through yesterday...I sent about 6-7 of them, and none show in Sent folder today???
I called Crowson yesterday at 12:05PT, no one answered. I left a message.
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post #557 of 595 Old 04-02-2015, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post
Not atabea, but I can address that...

I originally had my Crowsons directly on my floor, (carpet over concrete.) At the same time, I also had a friend with a powerful subwoofer system on a suspended floor. Both systems provided similar tactile response. The key difference I noted between the tactile response of his system and the tactile response of my system was that I could sense the floor motion in my feet in his system, but not in mine. It felt odd getting tactile response through my entire body, but not feeling anything through my feet on the floor.

My seats reclince, so my initial "solution" was to just recline the seats so my feet weren't on the floor. Then it felt very natural.

Eventually, the more permanent and complete solution was to build a suspended riser for my seating. The Crowson's shake the seating AND the riser, so I get tactile response through my body and my feet.

Just to be clear, no tactile transducer/shaker that is attached only to the seats will provide tactile response to the feet unless the seating is reclined. For *any* tactile transducer to shake the body as well as the floor/feet, it needs to be attached to a shakeable floor, (i.e., a riser), as well as the seats.

I wouldn't let the "concern" about tactile response not being sensed through the feet be a deterrent to the use of the Crowson's, or any other shaker/tactile actuator. The sensation they add is beneficial, even if the feet aren't included.

Craig

Are your actuators under the riser?


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post #558 of 595 Old 04-08-2015, 01:40 PM
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Those interested in Crowson group buy, I have info...but not great. I tried.
PM me if genuinely interested.
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post #559 of 595 Old 04-15-2015, 01:24 PM
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Furniture Construction Effect

I had planned to wait to purchase my transducers until after I received my new theater seating, but delays ensued and my impatience got the better of me and I went ahead and purchased two Shadow-8s and the D-501 amp. Dealing with Randolph was great; he even contacted my furniture manufacturer to determine specific construction details so he could best advise me on how many actuators I will need.

Of course, now I have the Crowson system installed under my relatively cheap old couch. I really like the effect -- I find it very immersive, and mitigates the inadequacy of my sub (long separate story). However, I suspect due to the cheap construction of my couch, I have had to turn the gain of the 501 amp up almost to the max (27 of 32) to get a suitable effect. This would be fine except for the fact that it creates substantial vibration and sound transmission throughout the house from my 2nd floor media room. Given that my kids' bedrooms essentially surround the theater, this level of transmission is a serious problem.

Have any of you noticed that the quality/rigidity of your furniture had a significant effect on the amount of "effect" from the transducers?

With high quality furniture, what "volume" of your amplifier do you use to get the desired effect from the Crowsons? I could dramatically reduce the transmission problem if I could lower the gain on my amp!

Thanks for your input
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post #560 of 595 Old 04-15-2015, 03:17 PM
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[QUOTE=southlakedad;33509866]I had planned to wait to purchase my transducers until after I received my new theater seating, but delays ensued and my impatience got the better of me and I went ahead and purchased two Shadow-8s and the D-501 amp. Dealing with Randolph was great; he even contacted my furniture manufacturer to determine specific construction details so he could best advise me on how many actuators I will need.

Of course, now I have the Crowson system installed under my relatively cheap old couch. I really like the effect -- I find it very immersive, and mitigates the inadequacy of my sub (long separate story). However, I suspect due to the cheap construction of my couch, I have had to turn the gain of the 501 amp up almost to the max (27 of 32) to get a suitable effect. This would be fine except for the fact that it creates substantial vibration and sound transmission throughout the house from my 2nd floor media room. Given that my kids' bedrooms essentially surround the theater, this level of transmission is a serious problem.

Have any of you noticed that the quality/rigidity of your furniture had a significant effect on the amount of "effect" from the transducers?

With high quality furniture, what "volume" of your amplifier do you use to get the desired effect from the Crowsons? I could dramatically reduce the transmission problem if I could lower the gain on my amp!

Thanks for your input[/QUOTE

Southlake, is that "27" in music or movie mode? (movie mode has a 6db boost). Regardless of the mode, I really feel that turning your Crowson amp to 27 is way too high. Depending on the movie, I max out between 16 and 19, and that is using 3 actuators with four, well-constructed chairs (reclainers). How are you hooking up your Crowsons? Are they tied in with the MVC? If they are, then it could be that your receiver/processor isn't passing a strong enough LFE signal to the D-501. It makes a world of difference if you are able to run the Crowsons in parallel and avoid having them tied in with the MVC.
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post #561 of 595 Old 04-15-2015, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post

Southlake, is that "27" in music or movie mode? (movie mode has a 6db boost). Regardless of the mode, I really feel that turning your Crowson amp to 27 is way too high. Depending on the movie, I max out between 16 and 19, and that is using 3 actuators with four, well-constructed chairs (reclainers). How are you hooking up your Crowsons? Are they tied in with the MVC? If they are, then it could be that your receiver/processor isn't passing a strong enough LFE signal to the D-501. It makes a world of difference if you are able to run the Crowsons in parallel and avoid having them tied in with the MVC.
The amp is set to movie mode and the Crowsons are wired in parallel. I agree that this is way too high for the amp, but it's necessary to get the proper effect. My wife likes it at this level too, so I know it's not just me! And yes, it is tied into the MVC of my avr.

Hopefully with the new chairs we can keep the setting at 16-19 as well, I think this would make a big difference. Our current couch is elastic webbing and soft foam everywhere - no good for this application.

Thanks
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post #562 of 595 Old 04-16-2015, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlakedad View Post
The amp is set to movie mode and the Crowsons are wired in parallel. I agree that this is way too high for the amp, but it's necessary to get the proper effect. My wife likes it at this level too, so I know it's not just me! And yes, it is tied into the MVC of my avr.

Hopefully with the new chairs we can keep the setting at 16-19 as well, I think this would make a big difference. Our current couch is elastic webbing and soft foam everywhere - no good for this application.

Thanks
If they are tied to the MVC, I assume you have them hooked up to a "sub out" on your avr? If so have you tried bumping up the trim on that sub out?
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post #563 of 595 Old 04-16-2015, 03:10 PM
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If they are tied to the MVC, I assume you have them hooked up to a "sub out" on your avr? If so have you tried bumping up the trim on that sub out?
Exactly!!
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post #564 of 595 Old 04-16-2015, 10:03 PM
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Exactly!!
I do have the D 501 hooked up to the second LFE out, but the sub 1 and sub 2 trims are not independently adjustable. So if I increase the sub trim, I increase the sub and the Crowsons. Regardless, my primary concern is that I want to keep the effect at its current level while decreasing the output of the Crowsons. I expect that better furniture will more efficiently transmit the vibrations, allowing me to reduce the output of the Crowsons while maintaining the effect and most importantly reduce sound transmission into neighboring bedrooms. That there are alternative ways to increase the Crowson's output, such as adjusting the LFE trim level, doesn't solve my problem.

So I will keep awaiting delivery of my delayed chairs, optimistic that they will fix my problem.
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post #565 of 595 Old 04-17-2015, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlakedad View Post
I do have the D 501 hooked up to the second LFE out, but the sub 1 and sub 2 trims are not independently adjustable. So if I increase the sub trim, I increase the sub and the Crowsons. Regardless, my primary concern is that I want to keep the effect at its current level while decreasing the output of the Crowsons. I expect that better furniture will more efficiently transmit the vibrations, allowing me to reduce the output of the Crowsons while maintaining the effect and most importantly reduce sound transmission into neighboring bedrooms. That there are alternative ways to increase the Crowson's output, such as adjusting the LFE trim level, doesn't solve my problem.

So I will keep awaiting delivery of my delayed chairs, optimistic that they will fix my problem.
..........But if you turn up the sub trim, you can then turn down the D-501 and the Sub Amps to compensate. You will then have accomplished what you were seeking in the first place---to be able to turn down the Crowson Amp while preserving the same output.
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post #566 of 595 Old 04-23-2015, 01:55 AM
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This may have been asked a dozen times through the life of this thread, but what amps are you guys using for your transducers?

I am NOT paying $650+ for a D-501 when there should be dozens of amps out there that can fit the bill for almost 1/2 that cost. Hell, even the Buttkicker BKA1000-N comes in at 1/2 the cost of the D-501. EP4000 comes to mind, but I'd want something silent. Which Crown amps are the silent type again??? The XLS or the XTi?

Anyway, BLUF...we should be able to get a 1,000 watt, silent amp, with minimal roll down to the single digits, to push a pair of Shadow-8's for about $350ish. Any input fellas?

^Note how I said minimal roll down to the single digits... That would exclude any member of the iNuke variety.
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post #567 of 595 Old 04-23-2015, 04:17 AM
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I think I remember that the iNukes roll off more at lower impedance, not so much at 8 ohms (on a NU3K). Might still work. Of course, they aren't silent.
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post #568 of 595 Old 04-23-2015, 05:09 AM
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Which Crown amps are the silent type again??? The XLS or the XTi?
The XLS are largely silent. However, they don't seem to have a large fondness for tough loads at subsonic frequencies. link So if you're looking for 4 ohms bridged / 2 ohm stereo subsonic performance, look elsewhere. I'm told they are more cooperative 8 ohms bridged / 4 ohm stereo, but haven't personally tested that myself.

Quote:
Anyway, BLUF...we should be able to get a 1,000 watt, silent amp, with minimal roll down to the single digits, to push a pair of Shadow-8's for about $350ish. Any input fellas?
There is the Dayton SPA1000 and its rack mount twin the SA1000. You can modify the HPF, but I have no idea if it really has subsonic power or not. Someone would have to measure one.
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post #569 of 595 Old 04-23-2015, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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This may have been asked a dozen times through the life of this thread, but what amps are you guys using for your transducers?

I am NOT paying $650+ for a D-501 when there should be dozens of amps out there that can fit the bill for almost 1/2 that cost. Hell, even the Buttkicker BKA1000-N comes in at 1/2 the cost of the D-501. EP4000 comes to mind, but I'd want something silent. Which Crown amps are the silent type again??? The XLS or the XTi?

Anyway, BLUF...we should be able to get a 1,000 watt, silent amp, with minimal roll down to the single digits, to push a pair of Shadow-8's for about $350ish. Any input fellas?

^Note how I said minimal roll down to the single digits... That would exclude any member of the iNuke variety.
MikeDuke and I are both using the Buttlicker BKA-1000... works great.

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post #570 of 595 Old 04-23-2015, 11:07 AM
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I own the BK-1000A as well and it works great like you said. Randolph however told me that something like the inuke would work better with the crowsons than the BK1000A.

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MikeDuke and I are both using the Buttlicker BKA-1000... works great.

Craig

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