The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 25 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #721 of 751 Old 07-20-2016, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Hakka View Post
To get the oppo to delay the sub signal you need to set one of the other channels to 12.5ft, and the sub to zero.
Thanks Hakka. Any suggestions for the volume level in the oppo?

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post #722 of 751 Old 07-20-2016, 07:15 AM
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Thanks Hakka. Any suggestions for the volume level in the oppo?
I haven't touched mine, it's on 'fixed'.
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post #723 of 751 Old 07-20-2016, 07:21 AM
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I haven't touched mine, it's on 'fixed'.
Sounds good. Thanks again.

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post #724 of 751 Old 07-20-2016, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
I ordered the Crowson Level 2 Motion System today. I plan to use the analog sub out from my oppo 103D to feed the D-501 amp. I’ve read through the thread, but I want to make sure that I'm on the right track with the analog setup in the oppo.

My setup is 5.1 so I would set:

The down mix to 5.1
Speaker size to small
Distance (my receiver set the sub to 12.5’; would that be a good starting point in the oppo?)
Volume control? What’s a good point to set it and forget about it?

Thanks.
That all sounds about right. As far as the volume control goes, just keep in mind that the intensity of the Crowsons will not be tied to the MV of you AVR. So if you listen at mostly the same MV all the time, it should be just fine to set the volume control on the Oppo to a set and forget (fixed at 100% or whatever) like you are wanting to do. If you listening levels are all over the place or you have a few different ones, then you may want to set the volume control on the Oppo to variable and adjust accordingly. This is what I do on my Oppo. I have three different volumes that I usually listen at. Blasting (-10 to 0 MV), moderate (-15 or so MV) and pretty low for late at night (-30ish MV). The first two I pretty much leave the Oppo Volume control at 100, maybe a bit lower for moderate volume, but when listening low around -30 MV I have to lower the Volume down from 100 or its jut to much. I'll usually lower it to around 80-90ish depending on the movie. Since the intensity of the TT's will not be tied to the MV, you'll probably want to do this to keep the balance if your MV levels vary quite a bit. Your amp may have a DEQ function that you could set up for the intensity of the Crowsons as your MV changes (not sure if the D-501 has this feature or not). This way you wont have to mess with changing the Oppo Volume when you go from say -5MV to -30MV and it'll still keep a real nice balance of TR to SPL. There are a few of the members around here using the DEQ on the inuke amps. I may consider that one of these days but for now, its fast and easy to adjust on the fly when I listen at lower MV's with the Oppo remote set to variable volume.

Just my 2 cents on what works well for me. YMMV

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post #725 of 751 Old 07-20-2016, 08:55 AM
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Hey guys,

I did about 1hr and a half of demos this morning while playing everything at reference. Since my Crowsons are tied to the MV....as I need to use it with other sources not just my Bluray player. After the demo's....I touched the crowsons and they were all pretty damn hot to touch. Am I driving them to hard? How do i know if I am driving them hard?. They were still playing fine even at that hot temprature. D501 amp is at 25 and my sub 2 trim is at 2+.....should i drop the sub trim and leave it at 0? or go into the neagtive range...in case it was sending a clipped signal?....BTW - how do i know if it is getting a clipped signal?...will it just not play some bass notes or something?

Thanks again guys
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post #726 of 751 Old 07-20-2016, 09:04 AM
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is anyone using a single Crowson in a 3 seat loveseat or 3 seat HT seating?

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post #727 of 751 Old 07-20-2016, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
That all sounds about right. As far as the volume control goes, just keep in mind that the intensity of the Crowsons will not be tied to the MV of you AVR. So if you listen at mostly the same MV all the time, it should be just fine to set the volume control on the Oppo to a set and forget (fixed at 100% or whatever) like you are wanting to do. If you listening levels are all over the place or you have a few different ones, then you may want to set the volume control on the Oppo to variable and adjust accordingly. This is what I do on my Oppo. I have three different volumes that I usually listen at. Blasting (-10 to 0 MV), moderate (-15 or so MV) and pretty low for late at night (-30ish MV). The first two I pretty much leave the Oppo Volume control at 100, maybe a bit lower for moderate volume, but when listening low around -30 MV I have to lower the Volume down from 100 or its jut to much. I'll usually lower it to around 80-90ish depending on the movie. Since the intensity of the TT's will not be tied to the MV, you'll probably want to do this to keep the balance if your MV levels vary quite a bit. Your amp may have a DEQ function that you could set up for the intensity of the Crowsons as your MV changes (not sure if the D-501 has this feature or not). This way you wont have to mess with changing the Oppo Volume when you go from say -5MV to -30MV and it'll still keep a real nice balance of TR to SPL. There are a few of the members around here using the DEQ on the inuke amps. I may consider that one of these days but for now, its fast and easy to adjust on the fly when I listen at lower MV's with the Oppo remote set to variable volume.

Just my 2 cents on what works well for me. YMMV
I set my MV around -18 to -16 so it looks like fixed should fit the bill. Thanks SBuger.

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post #728 of 751 Old 07-20-2016, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post
Hey guys,

I did about 1hr and a half of demos this morning while playing everything at reference. Since my Crowsons are tied to the MV....as I need to use it with other sources not just my Bluray player. After the demo's....I touched the crowsons and they were all pretty damn hot to touch. Am I driving them to hard? How do i know if I am driving them hard?. They were still playing fine even at that hot temprature. D501 amp is at 25 and my sub 2 trim is at 2+.....should i drop the sub trim and leave it at 0? or go into the neagtive range...in case it was sending a clipped signal?....BTW - how do i know if it is getting a clipped signal?...will it just not play some bass notes or something?

Thanks again guys
Your good, but watch the clipping. Thermal comp sets in as the coils heat costing you a very small loss of dynamics. This heating is normal of all voice coils. Even a very efficient(by volume standards)100db driver, really only has about a 5 percent efficiency, meaning 95 percent of the voltage that hits the the coil turns to heat with 5 percent becoming sound. So heat is normal and it doesn't necessarily mean your overdriving them. The body is the heat sink. There's a thermal cutout at 160F built in to protect the MA.

Clipping is difficult to determine without a meter especially considering this is an actuator. It will clip the top of the waveform. The more you turn it up the more wave hits this limit and is clipped off and more heat produced. It will continue to play this distorted waveform. My recommendation is back it off 5db then increase it slowly.
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post #729 of 751 Old 07-20-2016, 12:25 PM
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is anyone using a single Crowson in a 3 seat loveseat or 3 seat HT seating?
I have my crownson under a three cushion couch. The impact is plenty for the entire couch. Though my platform is carpeted, I have an 1/8 inch metal plate that sits under the crownson to help with the performance.
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post #730 of 751 Old 07-20-2016, 12:27 PM
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I have my crownson under a three cushion couch. The impact is plenty for the entire couch. Though my platform is carpeted, I have an 1/8 inch metal plate that sits under the crownson to help with the performance.
cool....i will prob order one...I have a spare channel on one of my inukes calling for this bad boy

thanks for the response!
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post #731 of 751 Old 07-20-2016, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
cool....i will prob order one...I have a spare channel on one of my inukes calling for this bad boy

thanks for the response!
IMHO, crowson has the best of the transducer worlds....heft and nuance. It's a terrific product.
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post #732 of 751 Old 07-20-2016, 06:08 PM
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cool....i will prob order one...I have a spare channel on one of my inukes calling for this bad boy

thanks for the response!
Brian, your gonna love it.... One of the best add ons I've ever done in my theater. Have fun! 😆

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post #733 of 751 Old 07-20-2016, 11:20 PM
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Got my Level 3 up and running along with 4x Sorbothane Iso's.



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post #734 of 751 Old 07-21-2016, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Your good, but watch the clipping. Thermal comp sets in as the coils heat costing you a very small loss of dynamics. This heating is normal of all voice coils. Even a very efficient(by volume standards)100db driver, really only has about a 5 percent efficiency, meaning 95 percent of the voltage that hits the the coil turns to heat with 5 percent becoming sound. So heat is normal and it doesn't necessarily mean your overdriving them. The body is the heat sink. There's a thermal cutout at 160F built in to protect the MA.

Clipping is difficult to determine without a meter especially considering this is an actuator. It will clip the top of the waveform. The more you turn it up the more wave hits this limit and is clipped off and more heat produced. It will continue to play this distorted waveform. My recommendation is back it off 5db then increase it slowly.
Hi coolrda,

Do you mean back it off the sub 2 trim which is at 2+ atm? Or decrease the intensity setting on the D501? Or just reduce the MV when watching movies to - 5?

Thanks again!

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post #735 of 751 Old 07-21-2016, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post
Hi coolrda,

Do you mean back it off the sub 2 trim which is at 2+ atm? Or decrease the intensity setting on the D501? Or just reduce the MV when watching movies to - 5?

Thanks again!

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Sub 2 trim. Keep everything at or below 0 db to be on the safe side. I'm finding with everything set flat I'm listening with MV closer to 0db/reference level, as it should be.
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post #736 of 751 Old 07-21-2016, 07:07 AM
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Sub 2 trim. Keep everything at or below 0 db to be on the safe side. I'm finding with everything set flat I'm listening with MV closer to 0db/reference level, as it should be.
Thanks buddy!...Ill do that asap then
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post #737 of 751 Old 07-21-2016, 12:02 PM
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If you have them all connected as in a love seat, you will be ok. It is better to buy 2, one for each end to minimize localization.

If they are disconnected as in my setup, you will need to connect them with a 2x4 and use one transducer on each end. I did not want to do that and I ended up buying 5 I can now control which seats are on but the obvious downside is the cost.

Quote:
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is anyone using a single Crowson in a 3 seat loveseat or 3 seat HT seating?

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post #738 of 751 Old 07-21-2016, 02:11 PM
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If you have them all connected as in a love seat, you will be ok. It is better to buy 2, one for each end to minimize localization.

If they are disconnected as in my setup, you will need to connect them with a 2x4 and use one transducer on each end. I did not want to do that and I ended up buying 5 I can now control which seats are on but the obvious downside is the cost.
They are connected. And the thing is I sit in the middle seat and am the only one in there 98% of the time. So I'll put it under my seat obviously

Thanks for the responses!
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post #739 of 751 Old 07-21-2016, 02:38 PM
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I'm doing some renovations to my theater room, I have 2 3 seat chairs and pre wired the front set with 12 speaker wires for Crowsons (just in case!). I also plan to pre wire the second set with 4. Anybody using 4 per seat? How much of a difference does multiple MA's make? (Other than the hit on the wallet!)


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post #740 of 751 Old 07-21-2016, 03:40 PM
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I'm doing some renovations to my theater room, I have 2 3 seat chairs and pre wired the front set with 12 speaker wires for Crowsons (just in case!). I also plan to pre wire the second set with 4. Anybody using 4 per seat? How much of a difference does multiple MA's make? (Other than the hit on the wallet!)


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If you mean 2x3 chair rows then you have 4x armrests per row, correct? The only one on record here that I know of using four per seat is Japandave. I thought I was gonna be the first but found his posts much earlier on this thread. I will configure mine and test it for the sake of knowing and post it here. I was going to run 8xMA's but the the 4x are so ridiculous, I don't see the point. I don't know if it's because I have the entire row energized and moving as one or from the new Sorbothane isolators(these things are remarkable) or both. I'd swear I went from two to six or eight instead four. I can't recommend enough using an MA at each rear contact point. I get back to you on the all point MA TR numbers.
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post #741 of 751 Old 07-21-2016, 03:47 PM
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If you mean 2x3 chair rows then you have 4x armrests per row, correct? The only one on record here that I know of using four per seat is Japandave. I thought I was gonna be the first but found his posts much earlier on this thread. I will configure mine and test it for the sake of knowing and post it here. I was going to run 8xMA's but the the 4x are so ridiculous, I don't see the point. I don't know if it's because I have the entire row energized and moving as one or from the new Sorbothane isolators(these things are remarkable) or both. I'd swear I went from two to six or eight instead four. I can't recommend enough using an MA at each rear contact point. I get back to you on the all point MA TR numbers.


Thanks. I plan to start with 4, and I appreciate the tip about covering all the rear contact points. Yes, I have 4 arms rests per row, but there are 6 front and 6 rear contact points. You're recommendation, then, is to cover all six? Also, are you saying you went from 2 to 4 and are so impressed you don't feel the need to add further MA's?


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post #742 of 751 Old 07-21-2016, 05:52 PM
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Thanks. I plan to start with 4, and I appreciate the tip about covering all the rear contact points. Yes, I have 4 arms rests per row, but there are 6 front and 6 rear contact points. You're recommendation, then, is to cover all six? Also, are you saying you went from 2 to 4 and are so impressed you don't feel the need to add further MA's?


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My recommendation is to cover the armrests with 4xMA's then 8xIso's at all other points. If that doesn't do it for you then cover the remaining 2 points at the rear. The new Isolators are so compliant that they decouple at a far greater rate than any feet I've ever used. The top and bottom caps are what keep these rigid. Without them they're gushy. It makes for a much more efficient platform.

Yes, I went from 2 to 4. Originally I thought about using 8xMA's. My thinking here now is that would turn this into a Z axis dominate array, as opposed to an Y/Z axes dominate setup. I've set mine up with Minidsp channel 2 to 2 middle MA's and channel 4 to 2 outside MA's for testing purposes mainly. I'll never run just 2 even if it's only me watching.

With my setup, there is no hotspots as every part of every chair is energized equally. There's no hint of dynamic compression. I never thought you could get to much TR from 5-12hz. Now I'm not so sure. I've backed off my gain from 6-7db and these are still so jarring its distracting. Now I don't experience that ever so slight upper midbass that is the reason why most owners LPF@40hz. I used a 80hz but now it's no longer needed. The benefit is better midbass presence. My 8x18's can crush it in my small room and really pressurize but these can completely dominate them. From this point forward its balancing the LCR/Subs/MAs that I'll focus on. As I said, I'll try the 4 per seat, just to know, but I don't think it'll change my mind.
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My recommendation is to cover the armrests with 4xMA's then 8xIso's at all other points. If that doesn't do it for you then cover the remaining 2 points at the rear. The new Isolators are so compliant that they decouple at a far greater rate than any feet I've ever used. The top and bottom caps are what keep these rigid. Without them they're gushy. It makes for a much more efficient platform.



Yes, I went from 2 to 4. Originally I thought about using 8xMA's. My thinking here now is that would turn this into a Z axis dominate array, as opposed to an Y/Z axes dominate setup. I've set mine up with Minidsp channel 2 to 2 middle MA's and channel 4 to 2 outside MA's for testing purposes mainly. I'll never run just 2 even if it's only me watching.



With my setup, there is no hotspots as every part of every chair is energized equally. There's no hint of dynamic compression. I never thought you could get to much TR from 5-12hz. Now I'm not so sure. I've backed off my gain from 6-7db and these are still so jarring its distracting. Now I don't experience that ever so slight upper midbass that is the reason why most owners LPF@40hz. I used a 80hz but now it's no longer needed. The benefit is better midbass presence. My 8x18's can crush it in my small room and really pressurize but these can completely dominate them. From this point forward its balancing the LCR/Subs/MAs that I'll focus on. As I said, I'll try the 4 per seat, just to know, but I don't think it'll change my mind.


Appreciate very much the prompt, thoughtful response. I'm really stoked about adding these when I finish my build. I pre wired with 12 gauge wire, I hope that's not too thick to properly connect to the MA's. I perused the Crowson manual and it mentioned 14-16 gauge, oops! Do you think the 12 gauge will be ok? Also: do the new motion isolators come in the package deals or do you have to buy them separately?


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post #744 of 751 Old 07-21-2016, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
Appreciate very much the prompt, thoughtful response. I'm really stoked about adding these when I finish my build. I pre wired with 12 gauge wire, I hope that's not too thick to properly connect to the MA's. I perused the Crowson manual and it mentioned 14-16 gauge, oops! Do you think the 12 gauge will be ok? Also: do the new motion isolators come in the package deals or do you have to buy them separately?


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Mine are wired with 12ga and it fits fine. Call Randy on the isolators. He mentioned a price and it's not cheap. I don't know if these will replace the existing ones in the kit. I will get to the VS testing of these and a subjective comparison of these to the originals but it will be a couple weeks before completed.
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post #745 of 751 Old 07-22-2016, 02:23 AM
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I'd swear I went from two to six or eight instead four.
Don't say that! DON'T SAY THAT! Damn you, i am/was perfectly happy with just my two....

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post #746 of 751 Old 07-22-2016, 04:41 AM
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Mine are wired with 12ga and it fits fine. Call Randy on the isolators. He mentioned a price and it's not cheap. I don't know if these will replace the existing ones in the kit. I will get to the VS testing of these and a subjective comparison of these to the originals but it will be a couple weeks before completed.


Thanks! Looking forward to the results of your testing. I'm estimating I'll be ready for the Crowson experience by October. Can't wait!


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post #747 of 751 Old 07-22-2016, 05:45 AM
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Thanks! Looking forward to the results of your testing. I'm estimating I'll be ready for the Crowson experience by October. Can't wait!


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Im very excited for you mate!, cant wait to hear your impressions on it!.

My wife had her mothers group over today and the husbands came as well....safe to say me and the guys went into the theater room and left the woman to do their own business....

I demo'd "Deadpool".............there is so much low end content on there it's not funny lol.

Jaws were dropped! lol. Everyone was saying....how awesome it felt during the highway opening scene lol.....One of them described it as one of the most brutally awesome HT sound experience he has ever had ...Another guy is now begging his wife for a dedicated room for his new house lol. I demo'd it at reference lol.

MA's are the secret sauce.....I must say
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post #748 of 751 Old 07-22-2016, 06:03 AM
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Im very excited for you mate!, cant wait to hear your impressions on it!.

My wife had her mothers group over today and the husbands came as well....safe to say me and the guys went into the theater room and left the woman to do their own business....

I demo'd "Deadpool".............there is so much low end content on there it's not funny lol.

Jaws were dropped! lol. Everyone was saying....how awesome it felt during the highway opening scene lol.....One of them described it as one of the most brutally awesome HT sound experience he has ever had ...Another guy is now begging his wife for a dedicated room for his new house lol. I demo'd it at reference lol.

MA's are the secret sauce.....I must say


Totally awesome! That's what it's all about. I don't know of any tweak, any component that can be added that creates this much excitement. I've been trying to spread the word on the Rythmik site, but I think TT's have a reputation for being gimmicky (I initially felt this way myself). You mentioned Deadpool, I've already bought it and am waiting for the room to be finished to watch it. Your post only increases the anticipation! Thanks for sharing!!


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post #749 of 751 Old 07-22-2016, 06:39 AM
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Totally awesome! That's what it's all about. I don't know of any tweak, any component that can be added that creates this much excitement. I've been trying to spread the word on the Rythmik site, but I think TT's have a reputation for being gimmicky (I initially felt this way myself). You mentioned Deadpool, I've already bought it and am waiting for the room to be finished to watch it. Your post only increases the anticipation! Thanks for sharing!!


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No worries buddy. My subs prior to the MA'S gave me quite a bit of tactile feeling..... But being Farfield..... They were comprised in that regard.... On the upside they blend much better.... With the MA'S in the mix and the subs Farfield... It feels like I've got the best of both worlds

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post #750 of 751 Old 07-22-2016, 06:50 AM
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Don't say that! DON'T SAY THAT! Damn you, i am/was perfectly happy with just my two....
Walk away......don't ever read anything posted here again.
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