The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 27 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #781 of 798 Old 08-10-2016, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Too much power wouldn't be realistic? To me that means I can turn the volume down and have more headroom.
Right. Those are the kinds of things one says to sell a product. Their amp or somebody else's. Which do you think they would recommend?


Of course there is truth in that statement. Too much power to any transducer will impart an unrealistic effect that is usually quite annoying. But.... simply turn it down.
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post #782 of 798 Old 08-10-2016, 10:51 AM
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One other thing I forgot to add. Randall said they have switched to "ultra soft" isolators (from just "soft") and the price for the new isolators has gone up to $35 each from $10 each for hte older soft style. I forget the exact rationale but he said the newer softer style ones will help transmit ULF through the furniture better. On a positive note, when buying a complete system, the isolators are automatically upgraded to the new ultra soft style at no extra charge. However, ordering more it's $35 for ultra soft or $10 for soft. I've seen the link to the Amazon ones for $9 which he says are a bit harder. With 16 legs in my sofa sectional, 4 actuators and 4 included ultra soft isolators, I'll need to buy up to 8 more isolators if I want all 4 separate parts including my ottoman of my sofa to rock and roll, or just 4 more if i want to double up on actuators on one section and leave another with none. Frankly, I'm having a hard time stomaching paying $35 each for some rubber feet, so might order 4 of the older style for ottoman and/or lesser used sections to compare and then decide on the next 4 isolators later. 8*$35 for rubber feet is starting to sound like those "ultra platinum hybrid HDMI cables" for $300 and 6ft run...

I'm happy to test out the 501-D that comes with the level 3 system for ~$480 net cost as I mentioned a few posts back, with just 1 or 2 actuators connected and see if there is a noticeable strength drop off when connecting the 3rd/4th actuator. I'm sure nobody thinks the 501-D might be under powered for just 1 or 2 actuators so this should give me a good sense if 125w across 4 actuators is adequate, what type of headroom exists on actuator count, or if you do need 250w or even 500w each. I'm not looking for a themepark ride, but I agree it's better to have headroom (especially if it's the same or cheaper price) than not to have it. If I'm not pleased, I can return the 501-D within 30 days and/or buy a stronger Inuke or Buttkicker to compare it too before 30 days to make a decision.

On another note, it sounds like it's quite easy to move transducers/isolators across different pieces of furniture. When it's just me or me/wife watching a movie (most of the time) I can have 4 actuators on the pieces of sofa we are actually using for a more balanced and/or stronger effect, and when guests are present I can easily enough move the isolators/actuators under the feet of the other sections. Alternatively, I slide the sofa out of the way, move in my favorite leather chair, and put 4 actuators under each of it's legs .

ETA: Anyone giving preference to the 501-D for it's 5hz rated FR? Again, presumably the 10hz rated buttkicker actually rolls off at 6hz, but not sure how consistent that is or the anecdotal points might be for a unique unit? Not sure what the FR on the inuke 3000 / 6000 is?

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post #783 of 798 Old 08-10-2016, 02:15 PM
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All amps roll. The question is how much. The Buttkicker amp was tested here a a long time ago. Here's the link.

Measuring Amplifiers

It's down -11db at 5hz according to this test. Even so it still would give you 2-300watts@5hz. If you compared both the D501 and the BK and even the one I'm using, the EP4K, it's doubtful you'd feel any difference. There's probably a bigger variance measured among your seats than these amps. Go with what you feel comfortable and don't look back.
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post #784 of 798 Old 08-13-2016, 11:43 AM
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I'm thinking about adding a single Crowson T108 and maybe a Behringer EP4000/2500 to the last available output of a mini dsp 2x4 for my theater style two person love seat. Instead of spending thousands more on subs in my 5k^3ft room where I'm currently reference capable down to 14Hz, this seems like a better option and something I've been meaning to try for a while. I nearly went with some ultra cheap bass shakers to demo before I stumbled across these from another AVS member's post...thanks Alan!

The couch has a mostly metal frame with some wood bracing that's on very hard flooring over concrete. Would a single unit on my love seat be enough to give me a nice feel/taste of what a quality Crowson has to offer or should I really try and start with two transducers for a more uniform effect? Also, since the mini dsp already does everything preamp that's needed for crossover, low pass, etc., any thoughts on using the latest D-501 amplifier vs using the more basic EP4000 or EP2500, aside from a little savings and a remote (which seems nice)?

Thanks all! I'm excited for the Crowson tactile experience. :smiley:
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post #785 of 798 Old 08-13-2016, 12:15 PM
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Anybody know what happened to the thread starter, Craig John? He hasn't posted in quite a while.
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post #786 of 798 Old 08-13-2016, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I'm thinking about adding a single Crowson T108 and maybe a Behringer EP4000/2500 to the last available output of a mini dsp 2x4 for my theater style two person love seat. Instead of spending thousands more on subs in my 5k^3ft room where I'm currently reference capable down to 14Hz, this seems like a better option and something I've been meaning to try for a while. I nearly went with some ultra cheap bass shakers to demo before I stumbled across these from another AVS member's post...thanks Alan!

The couch has a mostly metal frame with some wood bracing that's on very hard flooring over concrete. Would a single unit on my love seat be enough to give me a nice feel/taste of what a quality Crowson has to offer or should I really try and start with two transducers for a more uniform effect? Also, since the mini dsp already does everything preamp that's needed for crossover, low pass, etc., any thoughts on using the latest D-501 amplifier vs using the more basic EP4000 or EP2500, aside from a little savings and a remote (which seems nice)?

Thanks all! I'm excited for the Crowson tactile experience. :smiley:
Since you have the Minidsp I say go with the EP's. Now that mines dialed in I rarely change the volume which I can with my preamp. I would recommend dual MA's with your seat.
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post #787 of 798 Old 08-16-2016, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I'm thinking about adding a single Crowson T108 and maybe a Behringer EP4000/2500 to the last available output of a mini dsp 2x4 for my theater style two person love seat. Instead of spending thousands more on subs in my 5k^3ft room where I'm currently reference capable down to 14Hz, this seems like a better option and something I've been meaning to try for a while. I nearly went with some ultra cheap bass shakers to demo before I stumbled across these from another AVS member's post...thanks Alan!

The couch has a mostly metal frame with some wood bracing that's on very hard flooring over concrete. Would a single unit on my love seat be enough to give me a nice feel/taste of what a quality Crowson has to offer or should I really try and start with two transducers for a more uniform effect? Also, since the mini dsp already does everything preamp that's needed for crossover, low pass, etc., any thoughts on using the latest D-501 amplifier vs using the more basic EP4000 or EP2500, aside from a little savings and a remote (which seems nice)?

Thanks all! I'm excited for the Crowson tactile experience. :smiley:
Since you have the Minidsp I say go with the EP's. Now that mines dialed in I rarely change the volume which I can with my preamp. I would recommend dual MA's with your seat.
Thanks, and I'll leave my thoughts when I get it all set up. I haven't ordered them yet, and it might be a little while. Two Crowson T108 and an EP4000 cost about what I was going to spend on a 4th sub anyway, and I think they will net much better results in my room than a few more dB sub output.
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post #788 of 798 Old 08-23-2016, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Would a single unit on my love seat be enough to give me a nice feel/taste of what a quality Crowson has to offer or should I really try and start with two transducers for a more uniform effect? Also, since the mini dsp already does everything preamp that's needed for crossover, low pass, etc., any thoughts on using the latest D-501 amplifier vs using the more basic EP4000 or EP2500, aside from a little savings and a remote (which seems nice)?
I currently run 4 crowson actuators off one EP4000 amp and it works flawlessly - literally set and forget. I ran into some major problems with my Crowson D500 amplifier after about a year of ownership - it kept turning itself off and buzzing loudly. Even though Crowson was quick to help with warranty support - ultimately I could never get the D500 to work again.

The Behringer EP4000 has worked as a superior replacement - not exhibiting any of the problems my old Crowson amp had. So I highly recommend that--if you prefer the price point. My butt can pickup no discernible difference between the amp's performance.

Regarding number of actuators: one will definitely work on a loveseat (place centrally if you want "uniform" performance across the chair) but I would get two if you could afford it - mucho bang for your butt.

I have three crowsons on a three seat sofa and a single crowson on one recliner currently - no regrets with that purchase.
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post #789 of 798 Old 08-23-2016, 06:15 PM
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So it looks like you favor all across the back, rather than one in each corner.
Sounds like a plan.
Thanks.
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post #790 of 798 Old 08-23-2016, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimioguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Would a single unit on my love seat be enough to give me a nice feel/taste of what a quality Crowson has to offer or should I really try and start with two transducers for a more uniform effect? Also, since the mini dsp already does everything preamp that's needed for crossover, low pass, etc., any thoughts on using the latest D-501 amplifier vs using the more basic EP4000 or EP2500, aside from a little savings and a remote (which seems nice)?
I currently run 4 crowson actuators off one EP4000 amp and it works flawlessly - literally set and forget. I ran into some major problems with my Crowson D500 amplifier after about a year of ownership - it kept turning itself off and buzzing loudly. Even though Crowson was quick to help with warranty support - ultimately I could never get the D500 to work again.

The Behringer EP4000 has worked as a superior replacement - not exhibiting any of the problems my old Crowson amp had. So I highly recommend that--if you prefer the price point. My butt can pickup no discernible difference between the amp's performance.

Regarding number of actuators: one will definitely work on a loveseat (place centrally if you want "uniform" performance across the chair) but I would get two if you could afford it - mucho bang for your butt.

I have three crowsons on a three seat sofa and a single crowson on one recliner currently - no regrets with that purchase.
Mucho bang for your butt, lol. Thanks for your input! I'll start with the EP4000 and a single T108S. I'm hoping with 8 contact points on the love seat that one transducer will give me a decent amount of feedback at the MLP, because I really need to quit buying home theater gear for a while. Just one more purchase and I can stop, just one more, just one... :smiley:
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post #791 of 798 Old 08-24-2016, 06:46 AM
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This weekend I added two more Crowsons to my front row. The row has three seats connected underneath with steel and plywood, as shown in this post: my Crowson setup. I previously had two Crowsons aligned with the back edges of the armrests for my center seat. That allowed the two Crowsons to shake the center seat while also providing some motion to the left and right seats. The two Crowsons I added this weekend align with the front edges of the armrests for my center seat, so the center seat now has one Crowson in each corner. The effect is incredible. I may even need to turn the amp down a bit. But here are my two key takeaways:

1. Shaking the entire chair as opposed to only the rear gives a much more immersive experience. Even if I were to turn down the amp such that the total shaking power of the four were effectively equivalent to the shaking power I had with the original two Crowsons driven harder, I still think adding the two in front is a worthwhile upgrade.

2. I enjoy the added shaking power up to a point. In my setup, I think two Crowsons may be too few to achieve the best effect. In my view, the perfect effect may be achieved by running the four at 3/4 strength. This is stronger than two can achieve, but still gives some headroom if I want to increase the effect in specific situations.
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post #792 of 798 Old 08-24-2016, 12:54 PM
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Is it normal to not get answer on e-mails send to Crowson Tachical?
I have tried to place an order by e-mail for a week, but no answer back. I start to get fed up to net get answer back . I have a complet set of tactical speakers and amplifier, and I want to buy two more crowson actuators and some more isolators. But when they dont proceed your order, and dont answer back on e-mails then I start think about buy another Brand. I need two crowson actuators and some isolators before end of next week, is it other places I can order this where they ship fast and answer back on e-mails.
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post #793 of 798 Old 08-24-2016, 01:56 PM
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Is it normal to not get answer on e-mails send to Crowson Tachical?

I have tried to place an order by e-mail for a week, but no answer back. I start to get fed up to net get answer back . I have a complet set of tactical speakers and amplifier, and I want to buy two more crowson actuators and some more isolators. But when they dont proceed your order, and dont answer back on e-mails then I start think about buy another Brand. I need two crowson actuators and some isolators before end of next week, is it other places I can order this where they ship fast and answer back on e-mails.


I've personally had no problem getting a response (sometimes after a few days via email). I'd try calling and see if that doesn't expedite things. I believe it's a one man operation so you may need to exercise some patience. But from all accounts, it's well worth a little inconvenience!


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post #794 of 798 Old 08-24-2016, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dartvidar View Post
Is it normal to not get answer on e-mails send to Crowson Tachical?
I have tried to place an order by e-mail for a week, but no answer back. I start to get fed up to net get answer back . I have a complet set of tactical speakers and amplifier, and I want to buy two more crowson actuators and some more isolators. But when they dont proceed your order, and dont answer back on e-mails then I start think about buy another Brand. I need two crowson actuators and some isolators before end of next week, is it other places I can order this where they ship fast and answer back on e-mails.
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I've personally had no problem getting a response (sometimes after a few days via email). I'd try calling and see if that doesn't expedite things. I believe it's a one man operation so you may need to exercise some patience. But from all accounts, it's well worth a little inconvenience!


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My thoughts as well. Give them a call. That's what I did after a couple of days. As healthnut said it's worth a little inconvenience.

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post #795 of 798 Old 08-24-2016, 10:21 PM
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I know its worth to wait, but my problem is Im not live in USA so its not easy for me to buy them. I will go to New York end of next week, and I need to have them there when I arrive.
I just hope I will get answer on my e-mails. The first e-mail I send last week was answered in one day. After I placed the order by e-mail no answer back.
I just cross my fingers that I will get answer fast, and the product arrive New York in time.
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post #796 of 798 Old 08-25-2016, 12:21 PM
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I know its worth to wait, but my problem is Im not live in USA so its not easy for me to buy them. I will go to New York end of next week, and I need to have them there when I arrive.
I just hope I will get answer on my e-mails. The first e-mail I send last week was answered in one day. After I placed the order by e-mail no answer back.
I just cross my fingers that I will get answer fast, and the product arrive New York in time.
Then you should definitely call. Since you're on a timetable then the sooner the better. If you get their voicemail then reference the email in your message. That's what I did when I sent my first one.

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post #797 of 798 Old 08-26-2016, 10:44 AM
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I'm sure this has been covered..

I've read through a lot of the thread.. And, I'm sure I can't be the first person to ask this: but, I don't have an oppo bluray (I use a PS4). I've got a Sony DN-850 with two sub outs (one runs to a SVS PB2000). I'm very interested in picking up a set of Crowson's for my first row of seats - but, I'm slightly worried that running them from the second signal from my receiver might be a problem.. I don't want to replace my receiver until I can upgrade to a 7.1.4 for somewhere in the ballpark of $600-$700 (I'm thinking it'll be at least a couple few years).. Any advice? Or, directions to where this might've been covered?


Thanks!
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post #798 of 798 Old 08-26-2016, 11:49 AM
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I've read through a lot of the thread.. And, I'm sure I can't be the first person to ask this: but, I don't have an oppo bluray (I use a PS4). I've got a Sony DN-850 with two sub outs (one runs to a SVS PB2000). I'm very interested in picking up a set of Crowson's for my first row of seats - but, I'm slightly worried that running them from the second signal from my receiver might be a problem.. I don't want to replace my receiver until I can upgrade to a 7.1.4 for somewhere in the ballpark of $600-$700 (I'm thinking it'll be at least a couple few years).. Any advice? Or, directions to where this might've been covered?


Thanks!
If you are mainly concerned about tying the Crowson levels to the main AVR volume, you could drive the Crowsons with an iNuke DSP amp and use the dynamic EQ feature to boost the audio to the Crowsons when the main AVR volume is low. The downside to this approach is that it will also boost the audio in quiet scenes, even if the AVR volume is turned up high. You are boosting everything that is quiet, taking away one of the advantages of the Crowsons, which is to allow more subtle movements when called for. If you want to try the iNuke approach to see if you like it, here is a post with some settings I used before I bought an Oppo: earlier post.

I didn't see any room correction features on your Sony AVR, but if it has some, the iNuke can also cancel some of those effects. It is more difficult to overcome those, but it is generally possible if you are able to measure or otherwise see how Audyssey or other room correction algorithms are changing your low frequency signal.

Last edited by jstach500; 08-27-2016 at 09:57 AM.
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