The "Official" Crowson Tactile Motion Actuators Thread. - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 374 Old 09-18-2013, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking of using the Behringer Inuke as I believe it has a very good degree of flexibility in terms of set up. Not sure what spec model I need, but I was thinking of using the Inuke 1000. Not sure I need more than that, but I'm clueless when it comes to this stuff. biggrin.gif How would you rate their range?
That is a very good amp and the DSP version has some nice features. However, there are some things you should know about it:

1. It has VERY noisy fans. If it will be in the same room as you, you'll want to get quieter fans. There are some threads about it on AVS.
2. It has a really bright front panel light that is not dimmable. I found it too garish in my theater.
3. It's a "pro" amp and it expects a Pro amp input signal level. Consumer gear has a hard time driving it.

I use the Buttkicker BKA1000. It's technically "too much amp" for my dual Crowson setup, and you need to be somewhat judicious with the Volume Control setting. But it's dead silent, has only one little LED light and it has a full feature set.

Crowson also has 2 amplifiers that are specifically for the Crowson transducers: http://crowsontech.com/go/crowsontech/3332/en-US/DesktopDefault.aspx

Craig

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post #92 of 374 Old 09-18-2013, 02:13 PM
 
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Thanks for the tip Craig. As far as noise goes, the equipment would be in a dedicated cabinet which would be closed most of the time.There is no back section so there should be decent enough air ventilation.

However the point I am concerned about is the input signal level on the Behringer. I have no way of knowing whether it will work as this is all sight unseen for me. I have to import the goods as I don't live in the US. I'll check out the Buttkicker amplifiers.

I really only want to use the Crowson for the very low stuff, like below 30 Hz. I assume they have a high pass filter down to 30 Hz.
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post #93 of 374 Old 09-18-2013, 02:21 PM
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I thought I would share some thoughts on how realistic the Crowsons actually feel. I live in a neighborhood with lots of trees. One of my neighbors has almost 3acres and its loaded, I mean LOADED, with big trees. A few weeks ago he had some guys come out with some equipment to cut down some of these trees. The wife and I were sleeping in late on a Saturday morning but awoke suddenly to feel my whole bed shake every time one of these huge trees hit the ground. My house is mostly concrete block construction and it’s on a concrete slab and I never witnessed something like that before where it made furniture, on this concrete slab, shake/vibrate almost like a slight bounce. I’ve witnessed these types of effects before in a house with an elevated/suspended floor but never on a concrete slab. It felt EXACTLY how the Crowson feel when hooked up to my La-Z-boy - so much so that when I awoke I actually thought I may have fallen asleep while watching a movie and was waking up during a bass heavy scene. Later I asked my wife if she felt the effects from the huge trees falling while she was sleeping. She said “I thought I passed out while watching a movie in my chair and the bass woke me up”. eek.gifbiggrin.gif

Still love my Crowsons and would highly recommend them! cool.gif
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post #94 of 374 Old 09-18-2013, 02:41 PM
 
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Just to be clear, the Crowsons will only activate if there is any ultra deep bass content? If I use a HPF of 30 Hz then it's only going to respond below 30 Hz. Is it possible to have a lower low-pass filter?

Reason I ask is because my SVS SB12 NSD doesn't do a half-bad job of handling bass down to 20 Hz in a small space. If I turn the gain up on this thing it shouldn't really do anything unless there is deep bass material recorded, right? I mean, it won't rumble all the time, only when needed.

I've never experienced this kind of thing before, so it's all new to me. smile.gif
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post #95 of 374 Old 09-18-2013, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OllieS View Post

Thanks for the tip Craig. As far as noise goes, the equipment would be in a dedicated cabinet which would be closed most of the time.There is no back section so there should be decent enough air ventilation.

However the point I am concerned about is the input signal level on the Behringer. I have no way of knowing whether it will work as this is all sight unseen for me. I have to import the goods as I don't live in the US. I'll check out the Buttkicker amplifiers.

I really only want to use the Crowson for the very low stuff, like below 30 Hz. I assume they have a high pass filter down to 30 Hz.
The transducers don't have a built-in LPF. You need to set that in the pre amp/amp. The Buttkicker amp and the Crowson D-500 both have 40 Hz LPF's. The Crowson C-602 has a 30 Hz LPF. The Behringer with DSP has a whole host of different filter configurations. I suggest you PM forum member archea for more info on the Behringer amp with DSP.

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Just to be clear, the Crowsons will only activate if there is any ultra deep bass content? If I use a HPF of 30 Hz then it's only going to respond below 30 Hz. Is it possible to have a lower low-pass filter?

Reason I ask is because my SVS SB12 NSD doesn't do a half-bad job of handling bass down to 20 Hz in a small space. If I turn the gain up on this thing it shouldn't really do anything unless there is deep bass material recorded, right? I mean, it won't rumble all the time, only when needed.

I've never experienced this kind of thing before, so it's all new to me. smile.gif
I have mine setup at 40 Hz. It seems like exactly the right setting to me. I don't like the effect at higher frequencies, but up to 40 Hz is fine. And, BTW, I have a pretty potent subwoofer system, (3 Seaton Submersive HP's) and I have great extension to below 10 Hz from the subs. Still, the Crowsons do something the subs can't.

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post #96 of 374 Old 09-18-2013, 05:58 PM
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I have a single SubMersive HP in a 1000cf room with the Crowson. I am using the Butt Kicker amp that Craig mentioned and the crossover is set to 40Hz. It is an amazing combo.

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post #97 of 374 Old 10-14-2013, 01:18 PM
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Hey guys,
Few days ago, Craig paid a visit to my place to help me out with my subs and speakers placement (made a huge difference). During the process, Craig mentioned about crowson tactile Motion Actuators. After that, I started reading up on it. The more reviews I read on this tread, the more I wanted to get it. It took me 2 days and I lost my patience and ordered one today :-) It was just so overwhelming reading such positive reviews here and how it changed their experience watching movies that I couldn't wait any longer and ordered one today. I also ordered ButtKicker BKA1000-N Power Amplifier.

My current setup has three seperate theater seats that are put together. Nobody sits on third seat and therefore I didn't need to buy 2 but I did buy the pods to keep the same levels on all the seats. I'm planning to put one in the middle of two seats (just like craig showed on first page of this thread). I'm a little confused on how to connect actuators with the system.

I play movies through PS3 which is connected to avr. ave (Marantz SR 6007) has two subs output. My two subs are connected using a Y splitter which makes 2nd sub output free. Now I need to bring these actuators in the mix with an amp. I read Crowson guidline pdf and it mentions Crowson Pre-amp to use when using a generic Amp. Here is the back side image of amp.


Do I need Crowson Pre-amp as well besides BKA1000-N?
How do I make connection of subs to actuators? I"m assuming using a Y splitter from avr LFE (or 2nd LFE output from avr) to amp?


I don't think we need to connect any of the speakers since crossover is set to 80 in avr and according to posts I read, 40 seems to be the crossover point to stop actuators from responding. Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

thanks.
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post #98 of 374 Old 10-14-2013, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Do I need Crowson Pre-amp as well besides BKA1000-N?
Nope. The Buttkicker amp has everything built-in.
Quote:
How do I make connection of subs to actuators?
Can they all be connected using RCA cables only?
RCA cable from 2nd subwoofer out to Buttkicker amp in. Speaker cable from amp out to Crowson.
Quote:
I don't think we need to connect any of the speakers since crossover is set to 80 in avr and according to posts I read, 40 seems to be the crossover point to stop actuators from responding. Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

thanks.
That's correct.

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post #99 of 374 Old 10-14-2013, 09:00 PM
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Nope. The Buttkicker amp has everything built-in.
RCA cable from 2nd subwoofer out to Buttkicker amp in. Speaker cable from amp out to Crowson.
That's correct.

Craig
Thanks Craig.
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post #100 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 08:35 AM
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I received crowson tactile yesterday. After spending sometime, i figured out how to connect Buttkicker amp with crowson and avr. One intereting fact I found out is that the motion strength of crowson depends on the the volume of avr. In other words, if I turn avr volumne down, it reduces tactile motion. I was surprised by that since I thought that only volumn gain on amp will do that. Also, after playing bass reference clips for about 20 minutes, I checked if crowson is turning hot and it sure was. It is normal? Gain on avr is at 10 o'clock (level 4) and the filters are off. I don't even know what these fitlers on amp are for yet.

Then I tired to find the best place for it for one seat. Images show that it should be place at the very corner of the seat. When I tried it, I felt more motion coming to my head than rest of body since my back was reclined. It wasn't too bad but I wanted to feel motion more through the whole body as compared to just upper. Then I moved it around 10 inches inside the seat and walla. That was much better and also took motion away hitting my head. Did any of you have that feeling?

When I moved it in between two seats, the effects is not as profound but still good. The rapid motion it produces is great. I watche the scene from "Fligh of Pheonix" where plane is crashing. The scene where the plane turns 360 degrees in the air has some amazing bass that doesn't go on consistantly but goes on and off and crownson did the same quickly. The motion I felt in that scene was amazing.
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post #101 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

I received crowson tactile yesterday. After spending sometime, i figured out how to connect Buttkicker amp with crowson and avr. One intereting fact I found out is that the motion strength of crowson depends on the the volume of avr. In other words, if I turn avr volumne down, it reduces tactile motion. I was surprised by that since I thought that only volumn gain on amp will do that. Also, after playing bass reference clips for about 20 minutes, I checked if crowson is turning hot and it sure was. It is normal? Gain on avr is at 10 o'clock (level 4) and the filters are off. I don't even know what these fitlers on amp are for yet.

Then I tired to find the best place for it for one seat. Images show that it should be place at the very corner of the seat. When I tried it, I felt more motion coming to my head than rest of body since my back was reclined. It wasn't too bad but I wanted to feel motion more through the whole body as compared to just upper. Then I moved it around 10 inches inside the seat and walla. That was much better and also took motion away hitting my head. Did any of you have that feeling?

When I moved it in between two seats, the effects is not as profound but still good. The rapid motion it produces is great. I watche the scene from "Fligh of Pheonix" where plane is crashing. The scene where the plane turns 360 degrees in the air has some amazing bass that doesn't go on consistantly but goes on and off and crownson did the same quickly. The motion I felt in that scene was amazing.

The corner placement also didn't work well for my seating; I have mine centered on the rear-support bar of each of my chairs. Does your blu ray player have an analog subwoofer out jack? If so, derive your bass signal from there if your blu ray player has bass management, instead of the AVR. Does the buttkicker have a crossover selection dial on the rear of the unit? I worked very hard to tune my iNuke1000DSP amp to get the perfect response, so having the Pre/Pro alter that effect is less than desirable. I'm sure you feel the same way with your Buttkicker amp! I hope deriving the lfe signal from your blu ray player is a viable option for you.

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post #102 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 09:44 AM
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The corner placement also didn't work well for my seating; I have mine centered on the rear-support bar of each of my chairs. Does your blu ray player have an analog subwoofer out jack? If so, derive your bass signal from there if your blu ray player has bass management, instead of the AVR. Does the buttkicker have a crossover selection dial on the rear of the unit? I worked very hard to tune my iNuke1000DSP amp to get the perfect response, so having the Pre/Pro alter that effect is less than desirable. I'm sure you feel the same way with your Buttkicker amp! I hope deriving the lfe signal from your blu ray player is a viable option for you.

I use PS3 to play BlueRay. So no options for LFE :-(.
Quote:
Does the buttkicker have a crossover selection dial on the rear of the unit?
I has High cut off frequency which I think is the same as crossover. I have it set to 40 which I believen means that it won't send any signal to crowsonif frequency is over 40.
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post #103 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

I received crowson tactile yesterday. After spending sometime, i figured out how to connect Buttkicker amp with crowson and avr. One intereting fact I found out is that the motion strength of crowson depends on the the volume of avr. In other words, if I turn avr volumne down, it reduces tactile motion. I was surprised by that since I thought that only volumn gain on amp will do that. Also, after playing bass reference clips for about 20 minutes, I checked if crowson is turning hot and it sure was. It is normal? Gain on avr is at 10 o'clock (level 4) and the filters are off. I don't even know what these fitlers on amp are for yet..
I have dual Crowsons running in parallel off the same BKA Amp. My AVR (Onkyo 805 receiver) Sub Trim is set to -4.5 and the BKA is set to the 10o'clock position but again this is driving dual Crowsons. I usually watch movies with my Master Volume set at -7 to -12. This gives a lot of feel to my chairs and I have played some very heavy low hz content and my Crowsons never bottomed out or got warm at these levels even after hours of use. I think you may need to turn the amp gain down a bit. If you are running one Crowson off that BKA amp then you may be overpowering the Crowson unit. The BKA amp is a 4ohm amp capable of 1000 watts and the Crowson is an 8ohm device that can handle 500 watts.
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Then I tired to find the best place for it for one seat. Images show that it should be place at the very corner of the seat. When I tried it, I felt more motion coming to my head than rest of body since my back was reclined. It wasn't too bad but I wanted to feel motion more through the whole body as compared to just upper. Then I moved it around 10 inches inside the seat and walla. That was much better and also took motion away hitting my head. Did any of you have that feeling?
I have noticed the same thing. You can read about it here - placement does help with the overall feel.
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post #104 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 11:10 AM
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What is missing is strong impact where it feels like it should give a strong hit. For example, the scene from Return of the king where the elephants are attacking. Each step does shake the recliner but I thought that the impact should be to give strong quick impact. It is quick and short impact but not strong enough. I have amp volume to 10 o'clock and I read here that it should not be turned beyond it. I moved crowson to the center of side panel and it gave best impact result to me. What are the factors that can take impact strength away? Could it be that I am connecting amp input from avr?
I have a carpet floor. I woudln't say that its a flat carpet but its not very thick either. Some people on this tread explained the impact of crowson as standing on a highway and a bus driving by kind of impact. I am not getting that impact :-(.
Any ideas guys?
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post #105 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

What is missing is strong impact where it feels like it should give a strong hit. For example, the scene from Return of the king where the elephants are attacking. Each step does shake the recliner but I thought that the impact should be to give strong quick impact. It is quick and short impact but not strong enough. I have amp volume to 10 o'clock and I read here that it should not be turned beyond it. I moved crowson to the center of side panel and it gave best impact result to me. What are the factors that can take impact strength away? Could it be that I am connecting amp input from avr?
I have a carpet floor. I woudln't say that its a flat carpet but its not very thick either. Some people on this tread explained the impact of crowson as standing on a highway and a bus driving by kind of impact. I am not getting that impact :-(.
Any ideas guys?

Since your BK amp must be tied to the receiver's volume control, I would set the receiver to the volume that you normally use, then adjust the BK amp up past the 10:00 position until you get the feedback you desire. The results will be reliable as long as your AVR remains on that volume. If you have access to any of the popular Demo Discs (Scubasteve, Superleo, Jindrak, etc.), I can tell you which clips should provide a very tactile experience! Also, keep in mind that the Crowson (or any bass shaker) is made to augment the existing bass response so it feels natural. You don't want any tooth-rattling shaking either, as that would be unnatural (although the Crowsons are definitely capable.) I turn it up to teeth-rattling levels during gaming sessions, because it improves the experience, but for blu rays, very different story. You want it to be as natural as possible.
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post #106 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 12:20 PM
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Since your BK amp must be tied to the receiver's volume control, I would set the receiver to the volume that you normally use, then adjust the BK amp up past the 10:00 position until you get the feedback you desire. The results will be reliable as long as your AVR remains on that volume. If you have access to any of the popular Demo Discs (Scubasteve, Superleo, Jindrak, etc.), I can tell you which clips should provide a very tactile experience! Also, keep in mind that the Crowson (or any bass shaker) is made to augment the existing bass response so it feels natural. You don't want any tooth-rattling shaking either, as that would be unnatural (although the Crowsons are definitely capable.) I turn it up to teeth-rattling levels during gaming sessions, because it improves the experience, but for blu rays, very different story. You want it to be as natural as possible.

I was afraid of turning BK amp past 10 since here its recommended not to. I also called Crowson company and spoke with them. They pointed out a few things.
1 - Floor makes a little differnce. I have carbet floor.
2 - Seat can make a big differnce. image at end of post. I place it now in the center of side and it works best there so far.
3 - Another interesting fact was that Audyssey is controlling everything. They said it works best when signal is sent uncontrolled. I know many recommended to connect with BD player but PS3 doesn't have that option. Is there any other way crowson can be connected to get LFE without Audyssey controlling? I have Marantz SR6007 avr if it helps. I didn't find any option to disable Audyssey for one of the sub output in avr though.

I aslo asked how high can I go on amp and they said that after playing a heavy bass scene, if metal plate is getting too hot then its too high. Currently, at 10' oclock postion, if I play a heavy bass scene, it goes hot enough that I can press metal plate for like 10 secs.
Quote:
If you have access to any of the popular Demo Discs (Scubasteve, Superleo, Jindrak, etc.), I can tell you which clips should provide a very tactile experience!
Where can I find them? Are they available here to downlaod? I am using Bass reference demo disk from here
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1491761/the-best-of-the-demo-discs-demo-disc-bd9-dvd-dl

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post #107 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I was afraid of turning BK amp past 10 since here its recommended not to. I also called Crowson company and spoke with them. They pointed out a few things.
1 - Floor makes a little differnce. I have carbet floor.
If the transducer is settling into the carpet, it can loose it's direct contact with the frame of the chair. Another thing to try is to get a small piece of 1/4" plywood and place the transducer on top of it. It should be bigger than the transducer so it spreads the downforce from the transducer over a larger area. The idea is to better couple the bottom of the transducer to the carpet and keep it from settling into the carpet. Be careful though that you don't use too thick a piece of plywood or you'll raise the transducer more than the rubber feet. (You are using the rubber feet, right?)
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2 - Seat can make a big differnce. image at end of post. I place it now in the center of side and it works best there so far.
I know we looked at your seats when I was there, but I can't remember how the left side of the seat is constructed. If there is a solid rail system on the left, you could try it there. You may not be able to use one transducer to shake 2 chairs, but it may give you better effect in the one chair. Or, try Claude's or Brolic's suggestion along the front or back frame of the chair.
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3 - Another interesting fact was that Audyssey is controlling everything. They said it works best when signal is sent uncontrolled. I know many recommended to connect with BD player but PS3 doesn't have that option. Is there any other way crowson can be connected to get LFE without Audyssey controlling? I have Marantz SR6007 avr if it helps. I didn't find any option to disable Audyssey for one of the sub output in avr though.
There is no way to send an unfiltered signal from an Audyssey enabled receiver. This is exactly the problem I was trying to address when I decided to hook my transducer up to the analog subwoofer output of my Oppo.. to avoid sending the EQ corrections from Audyssey to the transducer, which neither needs nor benefits from it. I have considered getting a server for all my content, but have decided against it precisely because I can't find a server with an analog subwoofer output to drive the Crowson from.

Nonetheless, in your case, I don't think it's a big deal because Audyssey wasn't doing much correction below 40 Hz. You were pretty flat down there anyway, IIRC.

The bigger issue for you is having your transducer tied to the receiver's Master Volume Control. I agree with Claude and Brolic's advice above regarding setting the volume controls.
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I aslo asked how high can I go on amp and they said that after playing a heavy bass scene, if metal plate is getting too hot then its too high. Currently, at 10' oclock postion, if I play a heavy bass scene, it goes hot enough that I can press metal plate for like 10 secs.
It can be allowed to get "warm" but never "hot." It has a thermal protection circuit, but it's not foolproof.

BTW, the "filters" should be setup as follows:

High Cutoff Frequency: ON and 40 to 50 Hz. (If you want more "fast" shaking, try a slightly higher high cutoff frequency.)
Low Cutoff Frequency: OFF! (You want all the infrasonics. That's were the fun is!

Craig
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post #108 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 02:28 PM
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If the transducer is settling into the carpet, it can loose it's direct contact with the frame of the chair. Another thing to try is to get a small piece of 1/4" plywood and place the transducer on top of it. It should be bigger than the transducer so it spreads the downforce from the transducer over a larger area. The idea is to better couple the bottom of the transducer to the carpet and keep it from settling into the carpet. Be careful though that you don't use too thick a piece of plywood or you'll raise the transducer more than the rubber feet. (You are using the rubber feet, right?)

Great idea. I had 1/4" plysheet. I cut it enough to cover transduer easily. Placing it on top of sheet did make it better. I'm using rubber feet in all four sides now. But if I place the sheet, it raises the side. Even if I don't have sheet underneeth, placing transducer underneeth the wood frame raises the side little bit. Is it very important to make sure all four sides are equally raised? If it is then I can cut four small pieces from the plywood and place them in between the wood and rubber feet and then tied them up. This will provide extra cusion.
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Nonetheless, in your case, I don't think it's a big deal because Audyssey wasn't doing much correction below 40 Hz. You were pretty flat down there anyway, IIRC.

I tried it. I turned BK volume to level 5 from four and it turned transducer hot. Had to turn it back down to 4.
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I know we looked at your seats when I was there, but I can't remember how the left side of the seat is constructed. If there is a solid rail system on the left, you could try it there.
Please see my last post. I added image there. I have a solid wood going arcoss on right side and that's where I placed transducer. left side has a rectangular shape but is hollow in the middle.
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post #109 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Great idea. I had 1/4" plysheet. I cut it enough to cover transduer easily. Placing it on top of sheet did make it better. I'm using rubber feet in all four sides now. But if I place the sheet, it raises the side. Even if I don't have sheet underneeth, placing transducer underneeth the wood frame raises the side little bit. Is it very important to make sure all four sides are equally raised? If it is then I can cut four small pieces from the plywood and place them in between the wood and rubber feet and then tied them up. This will provide extra cusion.
Are the rubber feet all touching the floor without the plywood underneath them? If they are, you don't need to do anything else. If they're not, then adding small pieces of plywood underneath the feet will help. You might only need to do that to the ones on the same side as the transducer. The other side should be fine. The goal is: You want the perfect alignment where the transducer is coupled to the chair but the chair is still coupled to the floor through the feet. You DON'T want either the chair suspended above the transducer, or the chair sitting on the transducer but with the feet off the floor.
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I tried it. I turned BK volume to level 5 from four and it turned transducer hot. Had to turn it back down to 4.
There is an interaction between the AVR's MVC and the Volume knob on the Buttkicker amp. When you turn the AVR down, you can turn the Buttkicker amp up. However, you need to remember to turn it down again when you turn the AVR up. If you want to get away from that process, then follow the suggestions of Claude and Brolic:
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I have dual Crowsons running in parallel off the same BKA Amp. My AVR (Onkyo 805 receiver) Sub Trim is set to -4.5 and the BKA is set to the 10o'clock position but again this is driving dual Crowsons. I usually watch movies with my Master Volume set at -7 to -12. This gives a lot of feel to my chairs and I have played some very heavy low hz content and my Crowsons never bottomed out or got warm at these levels even after hours of use. I think you may need to turn the amp gain down a bit. If you are running one Crowson off that BKA amp then you may be overpowering the Crowson unit. The BKA amp is a 4ohm amp capable of 1000 watts and the Crowson is an 8ohm device that can handle 500 watts.
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

Since your BK amp must be tied to the receiver's volume control, I would set the receiver to the volume that you normally use, then adjust the BK amp up past the 10:00 position until you get the feedback you desire. The results will be reliable as long as your AVR remains on that volume.
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Please see my last post. I added image there. I have a solid wood going arcoss on right side and that's where I placed transducer. left side has a rectangular shape but is hollow in the middle.
I remember when we looked at your chairs we thought the spot you currently have it would be the best. Nonetheless, it never hurts to try other locations. Can you put it in the middle in the back?

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post #110 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 03:25 PM
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Are the rubber feet all touching the floor without the plywood underneath them? If they are, you don't need to do anything else. If they're not, then adding small pieces of plywood underneath the feet will help. You might only need to do that to the ones on the same side as the transducer. The other side should be fine. The goal is: You want the perfect alignment where the transducer is coupled to the chair but the chair is still coupled to the floor through the feet. You DON'T want either the chair suspended above the transducer, or the chair sitting on the transducer but with the feet off the floor.

If I place transducer with rubber feet, they are of same height. This means that if I put plywood under transducer, I will have to place it under rubber feet as well. Why is it a bad idea to have chair sit on transducer. When I do that, I get best result.
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I remember when we looked at your chairs we thought the spot you currently have it would be the best. Nonetheless, it never hurts to try other locations. Can you put it in the middle in the back?
Sure can sir but then wifeee side will get nothing :-). But, I'll try to see how it feels. I can always get another one later if thats the best way to get the desired result :-).

Does anyone konw of these demo disks BroliBeast mentioned?
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popular Demo Discs (Scubasteve, Superleo, Jindrak, etc.)
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post #111 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 04:03 PM
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You may want to try different content such as that demo disc. Some movies appear that they SHOULD have bass in certain areas meanwhile the bass may not be as strong as we want it to be or think it should be. In my room, if I focus too much on one movie that has content below 10hz and if I turn the Crowson up to make that feel impressive, then other movies will feel somewhat fake in other areas. My two favorite movies to use when setting up my Crowsons are the Incredibles and Kung Fu Panda.

There’s a scene on the Incredibles where the plane explodes with the mom and two kids in it. Right before the plane is hit, the missiles are tracking the plane and there is bass there, there is very impressive bass from plane explosion. Then there is bass when the part of the plane hits the water. All of this feels somewhat different but when the plane explodes its impressive. In my set up, If I don’t have the Crowson set up correctly or mounted incorrectly or not turned up enough or if Audyssey is pulling these frequencies down, then it wont be as impressive. If I have too much volume on the BK amp then most of these same sequences in the movie feels great but the plane explosion feels a little too powerful and somewhat unnatural – hence I know I have to back off the volume from the BK amp. I’m also using the 40hz LP filter on the BKA

In Kung Fu Panda, there’s the infamous Skadoosh scene but I like to use one scene that is not mentioned as much. It is the scene where the Furious Five is fighting Tai Lung on the bridge. At the end of the battle Tai Lung lands on the bridge (see waterfall link taken from the Movie with Bass thread). With the Crowson hooked up, this adds a nice wobble/ripple feel to your seat. In my set up, if the BKA/Crowson is done correctly, these scenes have a nice feel and blends very well with the Subs. If I don’t have enough volume going to the Crowson that they lack feel or if the Crowson are not mounted or set up correctly. If I have too much volume going to the Crowson, you can cleary tell Crowson are hooked up.

I use these scenes and a few others when I do my setup. Once I have everything set up close to perfect I then will back off the BKA amp dial just a smidge – VERY tiny bit. It’s easy to keep turning up the Crowson to get even more tactile feel but I think this is an area where Less is More. You want good feel but you don’t want to be distracted during your movie experience. i will then test for a few days and ensure the Crowson are not getting hot after an hour or two of use during 4-5 star Bass movies.

I think you may also benefit from a second Crowson if you are currently using one to power both seats.


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post #112 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 05:28 PM
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Does anyone konw of these demo disks BroliBeast mentioned?

Here you go--all of these are GREAT!

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post #113 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 08:57 PM
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You may want to try different content such as that demo disc. Some movies appear that they SHOULD have bass in certain areas meanwhile the bass may not be as strong as we want it to be or think it should be. In my room, if I focus too much on one movie that has content below 10hz and if I turn the Crowson up to make that feel impressive, then other movies will feel somewhat fake in other areas. My two favorite movies to use when setting up my Crowsons are the Incredibles and Kung Fu Panda.

You are absolutely correct. I was only watching Bass demo disk that only has very high bass and I was trying to constantly match the loud bass with shaking. Then I switch to The dark knight and all of a sudden realized how good it feels in low bass scenes (specially at level 5). Then I watched Hills have eyes 2 and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Its the scenes with very high/loud bass that I couldn't match with. Scene that have sudden low bass were great. Then I did an experiment to realize if I was expecting too much. I turned BK amp to level 5 (11 p.m.), turned avr sound from -10 to -6 and turned sub trim from -5 to -3 and then called my wife and played scene from Thor movie where he is fighting with ice guys and the huge giant. She asked me to stop because it was too much move for her. She said that it was too much movement that she started feeling like she might throw up if she keeps on feeling that movement. That was clear that it was way too much movement. She enjoyed when I had it to BK amp at level 4 (10 p.m.), avr to -12, and sub trim back to -5.

Finally I realized that I really like the movement when its a suspense scene and very low bass is there and seat shakes just very tiny bit. But this happens only when the level is set to 5 in bk. At level 4 that very little shake goes away. So I liked 5 for very low bass. But when scene goes very loud, seat moves rather harder but I don't mind it that much. My only concern is for transducer to get too hot at that level.

What I know so far is that there are three ways to increase the response.
1 - Increase BK volume.
2 - increase avr volumne
3 - increase sub trim level in avr

Please let me know if I'm missing any option. I think I'm very happy with Level 5 but it turns transducer hot. Does anyone know if there is a way to tell if its too hot? Also, does anyone know if there is a remote control that can work with BK amp?
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post #114 of 374 Old 10-22-2013, 08:58 PM
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Here you go--all of these are GREAT!
Thanks a bunch. I'll check it out :-)
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post #115 of 374 Old 10-23-2013, 08:21 PM
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Today I found something very important about transducer placement that I wanted to share with you guys. After spending a few hours for its best placement, I placed it under right side in the middle. The side is only 1 1/2 wide. That location gave me best result at that time. Different location I tried was middle rear, rear right corner. Then today I started thinking that transducer is about 8 inches wide and long. I'll have the best result if there is a platform that can it can sit under completely. So I started looking around and found that the Left rear corner had that platform. I placed transducer under it and the did a test.

First of all, it provided much more power. I chose a scene from the dark knight that has slight low bass to get light reaction from transducer. I placed it in different places and got almost no motion but as soon as I placed it under that platform, it responded much better. But here comes the best part. I started feeling much better motion that just shaking. I felt much more than that. A scene where batman is riding the bike, he starts riding it and the motion it produced was much more that just shaking. I felt as if it was moving my seat based on the sound the tires produced. I was just awesome. Let see if I can express with some words. Bike made the sound (da da da ddaaa daaaaaaaa drrrrrrrrrrr) and the motion responded accordingly.

Lesson learned:
1 - Do not place transducer under a thin platform. Make sure the whole surface is covered
2 - Place transducer under a solid platform. If you have carpet, use a plywood (as recommended by Craig).

If you don't have a platform to cover transducer top completely, its easy to make one. Buy a thick enough wood from homedepot of about 6 inches to (ideally 1 foot) long and drill it inside one of the corner where you have space and use it as your platform.

I think those who have two transducer, the best place would be in the middle of each side on a platform. None of the seats have it but again it can easily be achieved using the procedure I defined in step 2.

Craig: I know that you sharing one transducer in between two seats. I was doing the same thing but the difference of having transducer under a platform completely is a whole different experience. Did you try placing it under one seat completely where the whole platform is covered? According to the pics you uploaded, it seems like back corner might cover it completely. If you haven't tried it, can you give it a shot and see if makes a difference for you?
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post #116 of 374 Old 10-24-2013, 10:51 AM
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Bunga99: I read your post here http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450832/the-official-crowson-tactile-motion-actuators-thread/30#post_22899072. Thanks for that. Definitely very informative. I'm now going through the same phase you went through. You did make a very good point about localiztion. Placing Crowson in corners did localize it specially when it was sitting on an inch or 2 thick frame. But, when I had the whole platform covering it, it got much metter. I'll check once again when I go home to see if I feel that the motion is coming from the corner. You have yours in the center on a (2 inches thick I think????) frame that doesn't cover it completely. I wonder how i'd respond if you can provide the platform to cover it completely?

Another good point you made was the feeling one gets on 15-20 hz it makes. In my case it does it when I have it turned up just a little bit above 10 p.m and very good at 11 p.m. . I was watching dark kinght to test the setting. I think its a great movie for testing becasue it has many very low bass scenes. The very beginning of the movie where they are preparing to rope through the building (after window blowing which is the very first scene and before they jump out the window), when they are attaching the equipments, there is a very low and suddle bass that is very hard to hear but Ican feel it if I set Crowson at 11 o'clock (level 5). Then when they shoot the rope across, it makes a wobbly motion (not shaky). Similar effect can also be felt when they are shooting ropes to bring halicopter down followed by tunnel scene.
The drawback of setting amp this high is that some effects that are at higher frequency can get a little too strong. I wonder if we can feel all those small motion and still keep amp to 10 O'clock (level 4). Level 4 seems like a very good point to stop. One can get lower but getting higher gets a little too strong. But then we loose all those very small suddle motions in very low frequency.
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post #117 of 374 Old 10-24-2013, 02:35 PM
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I'm glad you found that post somewhat useful smile.gif

Yep my Crowson is setup directly in the middle of my chair (in the red circle where the red arrow is pointing in the pic below). That part of the wood frame is about 1inch wide (the part that you see) but its about 3inch tall and glued to the rest of the bottom frame.

One thing I did a few months after I got the Crowson was place a 2in wide metal bar that connects the back of the left leg to the back of the right leg. See Grey line in the pic below. I did this just out of curiosity to see how it would work. It did give more feel at the same volume setting and I could feel more of the lower hz effects more easily but I decided against it because I could feel the shake more in my back, shoulders and head. I decided to go back to my original mount towards the middle of the chair (red arrow).



Bottom line is I think the more you experiment with placement, the happier you'll be in the end. From what you are describing though, I think you would benefit from a second Crowson actuator. Both of mine are probably only seeing less than 500 watts each. My amp is at the 10o'clock position (slightly below that actually). Mine never get close to warm even after hard demos for over 20 consecutive minutes - they are still cool to touch - not even luke warm. My seats are very light though, they probably only way like 75-85lbs each if I had to guess.


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post #118 of 374 Old 10-25-2013, 09:50 AM
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Last night I checked to see if I can feel crowson being localized. I watched "Olympis is falling" and didn't noticed where the movement was initiated from. Also if someone has two crowson, placing each on each rear side will definitely elimiate any localocation issue.
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post #119 of 374 Old 10-25-2013, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Craig: I know that you sharing one transducer in between two seats. I was doing the same thing but the difference of having transducer under a platform completely is a whole different experience. Did you try placing it under one seat completely where the whole platform is covered? According to the pics you uploaded, it seems like back corner might cover it completely. If you haven't tried it, can you give it a shot and see if makes a difference for you?
Hi Sheraz,

You bring up a great point. The shaker will "couple" to the whole chair best at the strongest part of the chair. My transducers are not underneath a "platform", but they are underneath a very substantial and solid part of my chairs:



They are underneath the rail right where it connects to the back frame. Also, there is a crossbrace just in front of them. This allows for transmission of the shaking through the whole chair.

Craig

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post #120 of 374 Old 10-25-2013, 12:17 PM
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I purchased one Crowson actuator to make sure I liked it. I hooked it up last night to a single chair. Using a paradigm x30 crossover low passed at 35hz driven by one channel of a Samson sx1200. I've had buttkickers before and although I liked them at times I did have issue with bottoming or shaking after the signal. The crowson is spot on, no lingering, and compliments my subs great. My seats already shake as is so the additional at a lower frequency is perfect. All the heavy hitters (war of the worlds, httyd, hulk)on ulf just felt better as if my subs were back in a sealed room vs the open living room where they now reside. I'll be experimenting with a more capable amp to drive the crowson at ultra low frequencies and also getting two more. Here is my current set up minus the screen.
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