Hmmm not sure I'm happy with SVS PB13 ultra - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 01-13-2013, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Well that may be slightly harsh, movies are amazing. But where is the music?? I've been messing but can't get no good thump. I mean it integrates well. It will shake my house down but.... Where's my chest hit. I can't believe it just can't do it. I just picked it up 2 days ago and was so excited. Kinda let down actually. 2k and no chest hit??? Can't believe it.

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post #2 of 34 Old 01-13-2013, 07:45 AM
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"Chest hit" is generally associated with mid-bass frequencies. You may not be getting that hit because:
- you've got a null at the listening position at those frequencies; or
- the sub plays flat across all frequencies, with no output "hump" in the mid-bass region to provide the level of hit you're expecting.
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post #3 of 34 Old 01-13-2013, 07:46 AM
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Mine chest hits with music and movies. What do you have in your system? I'm running Denon A100 with Audyssey MultEQ-XT 32 Room EQ. Just need more info. Are you setting your front speakers to Large? Running in direct mode? Too many variables with answering your question without knowing what setup your running.

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post #4 of 34 Old 01-13-2013, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith k View Post

Well that may be slightly harsh, movies are amazing. But where is the music?? I've been messing but can't get no good thump. I mean it integrates well. It will shake my house down but.... Where's my chest hit. I can't believe it just can't do it. I just picked it up 2 days ago and was so excited. Kinda let down actually. 2k and no chest hit??? Can't believe it.

Details, you could have a crappy placement. You might not be used to clean bass. Your setup is weak. I know this sub and it's your setup that is at fault.
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post #5 of 34 Old 01-13-2013, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith k View Post

Well that may be slightly harsh, movies are amazing. But where is the music?? I've been messing but can't get no good thump. I mean it integrates well. It will shake my house down but.... Where's my chest hit. I can't believe it just can't do it. I just picked it up 2 days ago and was so excited. Kinda let down actually. 2k and no chest hit??? Can't believe it.

room size?sealed off ?what type of rc is/was used?...all of this needs answered 1st.

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post #6 of 34 Old 01-13-2013, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok it's a 18 x 22 room, I am running the new marantz 7701 pre pro, with the 7055 5 channel marantz amp. I have run audessy xt, and made some tweaks from there. I'm running paradigm studio 100 v5 and cc690. I'm in stereo not pure direct just stereo. I have my xover set at 80hz and have adjusted my distance measurement about three feet longer. From 13'7" to 16'7" on the sub. That made the biggest difference. Speakers are on small at the moment. Have tried both ways large and small. Large def fills in some deeper notes but small seems to be good to. Sub is paced in The front right corner of room. I have done the sub crawl and there really isn't any better position that I can physically put the sub. Before adjusting xover to 80 I had it at 60 and 40. At the 60 and 40 the sub was almost canceling out with the fronts. So that's where I am at now. Just does not seem to have a good mid bass hit. It's there, it's pretty clear. Sound stage is good. Just no good punch on the chest. Oh yeah and it's a basement. Stairway and door to garage are the only exits. So pretty much a sealed room.

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post #7 of 34 Old 01-13-2013, 12:36 PM
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you need to take measurements to see what the room is doing to your bass frequencies. cheapest way is a spl meter, test tones, and graph paper

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post #8 of 34 Old 01-13-2013, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
"...the sub was almost canceling out with the fronts...."
Make sure the phase between sub and speakers is correct. Play with the phase setting on the sub to make sure.
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post #9 of 34 Old 01-13-2013, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by curtisG View Post

Make sure the phase between sub and speakers is correct. Play with the phase setting on the sub to make sure.

Yeah that's why I was changing the distance in audessy. Same thing isn't it. Or basically?? But I will do that. Thank you for suggestion.

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post #10 of 34 Old 01-13-2013, 04:13 PM
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What kind of source are you using for music? I was a little disappointed with my music at first (different sub) but then realized it was the streaming content at fault. The Denon's have a "Restorer" function that adds some of the lost mp3 content (or claims to) and this was a huge improvement for me. Part of my other problem was that I was looking for bass where there was none...just because I came from an entry level JBL to a much nicer PSA sub. Have you tried any of the music content via DVD/Bluray? I can't imagine you wouldn't get the chest bump with those. Very possible your in a null like I am.
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post #11 of 34 Old 01-13-2013, 05:05 PM
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Raise your xo to 100 and see
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post #12 of 34 Old 01-14-2013, 07:08 AM
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So what music are you listening to?? I've found a lot of stuff that is mastered horribly due to the loudness wars sounds like horrible on a decent system. Usually this brickwalled music just sounds flat and has no life to it.

[edit]
Almost forgot to add, a LOT of the chest thump/punch your looking for is upper-mid bass. In the 100-160hz region. I see this a LOT from people who upgraded from HTIB setups where the sub is crossed over at 120-160Hz. With the HTIB sub playing soo high into the mid-bass you tend to get more mid-bass punch sometimes even if it's not realistic or accurate. Sometimes also from people that have car audio subs as most people tend to run car subs about 8-12db hot. Also having a sub in a small space like a car tends to pressurize things a bit more.
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post #13 of 34 Old 01-14-2013, 09:56 AM
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I hear most chest hitting bass is around/over 100hz. The PB13 Ultra is great for sub 15 hz, but maybe setting a crossover of 150hz would help?
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post #14 of 34 Old 01-14-2013, 10:45 AM
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I've got the Ultra13 and it'll pound me in my main seating position, but stand up and it goes away until I take a step forward. AND I've got TWO Ultras to boot! So, placement can be the biggest culprit. Next, I'd get an analog needle radioshack meter or good mic and run REW (a program) sweeps thru the system to see what's going on and if there's any nulls. Audyssey will cut peaks a lot but can't do much for valleys in the frequency response.

With your Marantz try running the subwoofer XO at 120Hz since that's the spec. the LFE channel is supposed to cover. Then set your mains to small and play with that XO until it blends seemlessly. This will take the mains audio (movies and all stereo content) and parse it out between the mains and sub. If your mains are well placed for good imaging and mid response they'll likely be in a compromised location for good bass. I have my B&W towers XO at 60 right now. Occasionally I try 40 and have been all the way up to 80. For fun try the mains XO set to 100 or 120, 150 etc., to see how the Ultra plays that upper region of bass versus your mains. With the sub out XO at 120Hz, movie bass content over ~80Hz on the LFE channel won't be cut.

Ultimately, the Ultra is very capable across the entire sub15 - 150 Hz range, but these lower frequencies are also VERY dependent on room and placement. There is the odd chance that the sub's forced placement, orientation, etc. due to its size, might not work well for you and your room. I partially have this problem in my living room setting with the two Ultras. I occasionally ponder going smaller (SB13 Ultra or Hsu ULS, etc.) for more placement options. Good luck with the tinkering and report back your finndings.

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post #15 of 34 Old 01-14-2013, 03:33 PM
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I will be watching this thread as I just picked up the ultra and am experiencing the same problem. Will be purchasing a spl meter to get a better idea!

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post #16 of 34 Old 01-14-2013, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boarder1995 View Post

With the sub out XO at 120Hz, movie bass content over ~80Hz on the LFE channel won't be cut.

It's my understanding that bass content on the LFE channel is never cut as long as a sub is specified in the pre-pro or AVR.

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post #17 of 34 Old 01-14-2013, 08:14 PM
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I've experienced on many processors that have a single universal crossover setting that what ever it's set to is what the sub sees unfortunately regardless of LFE content. Processors that have multiple flexible crossovers, separate crossover for mains, other speakers and separate for sub are best, but still if you cross over the sub output to say 60, then the LFE signal when it goes out to the sub out will get cut.

So now there's a "second" Ultra13 consumer with lacking punch up top?

All I can say is re-check your settings, phase, and try pointing the sub in diffent directions to see if it changes. Try one item at a time though. Phase can have huge affects, even when Audyssey is utilized. Also try with Audyssey off for comparison.

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post #18 of 34 Old 01-15-2013, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boarder1995 View Post

I've experienced on many processors that have a single universal crossover setting that what ever it's set to is what the sub sees unfortunately regardless of LFE content. Processors that have multiple flexible crossovers, separate crossover for mains, other speakers and separate for sub are best, but still if you cross over the sub output to say 60, then the LFE signal when it goes out to the sub out will get cut.

So now there's a "second" Ultra13 consumer with lacking punch up top?

All I can say is re-check your settings, phase, and try pointing the sub in diffent directions to see if it changes. Try one item at a time though. Phase can have huge affects, even when Audyssey is utilized. Also try with Audyssey off for comparison.

These processors are built for all the new modes and features. They fail to realize that sometimes a guy just wants 2 channels and the LFE to work as a subwoofer for them.A subwoofer is not an LFE. An LFE channel is a discrete.1 channel on the 5.1 or 7.1 or......

Read this, it might help.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/748147/lfe-subwoofers-and-interconnects-explained
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post #19 of 34 Old 01-15-2013, 11:04 AM
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I am not surprised that you are not hearing that Chest Thumping Bass. SVS was claimed to be a sub hitting lows. That is why HT experience is good for you. Mid base may not be its forte. Handling Home Theater is easier then handling music. Only good Subs step up to the challenge. If you have a way, you want to compare this with Velodyne EQ MAX Series / DD Series, REL (or) HSU mid-base module and see if there is any difference. I am not suggesting that you buy those to compare. Just in-case you have any friends who own those products might be of help for comparison.

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Originally Posted by keith k View Post

Well that may be slightly harsh, movies are amazing. But where is the music?? I've been messing but can't get no good thump. I mean it integrates well. It will shake my house down but.... Where's my chest hit. I can't believe it just can't do it. I just picked it up 2 days ago and was so excited. Kinda let down actually. 2k and no chest hit??? Can't believe it.
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post #20 of 34 Old 01-15-2013, 11:11 AM
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I am not surprised that you are not hearing that Chest Thumping Bass. SVS was claimed to be a sub hitting lows. That is why HT experience is good for you. Mid base may not be its forte. Handling Home Theater is easier then handling music. Only good Subs step up to the challenge. If you have a way, you want to compare this with Velodyne EQ MAX Series / DD Series, REL (or) HSU mid-base module and see if there is any difference. I am not suggesting that you buy those to compare. Just in-case you have any friends who own those products might be of help for comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith k View Post

Well that may be slightly harsh, movies are amazing. But where is the music?? I've been messing but can't get no good thump. I mean it integrates well. It will shake my house down but.... Where's my chest hit. I can't believe it just can't do it. I just picked it up 2 days ago and was so excited. Kinda let down actually. 2k and no chest hit??? Can't believe it.

Really? The sub will play whatever is sent to it, whether it's 40hz or 15hz (within it's limits)
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post #21 of 34 Old 01-15-2013, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Raks View Post

I am not surprised that you are not hearing that Chest Thumping Bass. SVS was claimed to be a sub hitting lows. That is why HT experience is good for you. Mid base may not be its forte. Handling Home Theater is easier then handling music. Only good Subs step up to the challenge. If you have a way, you want to compare this with Velodyne EQ MAX Series / DD Series, REL (or) HSU mid-base module and see if there is any difference. I am not suggesting that you buy those to compare. Just in-case you have any friends who own those products might be of help for comparison.

Well I have a PB12-Plus DSP and has hit in the chest as well as earthquake effect. The problem is most of our fellow settings that output capacity.

To give you an example, 115 dbs at 80hz, will have the same effect on a Velodyne, DIY, HSU or other marks on equal terms (Another thing is how to work each subwoofer in that range). But let a sub 115 dbs or another sub, the effect punch in the chest should be the same.
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post #22 of 34 Old 01-15-2013, 11:23 AM
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Really Sputter ? Then why pay 2K for SVS PB13 Ultra ? Just get a $500 sub from Outlaw Audio / HSU and it should be fine. Save $1500 to the pocket. biggrin.gif
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Really? The sub will play whatever is sent to it, whether it's 40hz or 15hz (within it's limits)
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post #23 of 34 Old 01-15-2013, 11:24 AM
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Really? The sub will play whatever is sent to it, whether it's 40hz or 15hz (within it's limits)

+1
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post #24 of 34 Old 01-15-2013, 11:28 AM
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Really Sputter ? Then why pay 2K for SVS PB13 Ultra ? Just get a $500 sub from Outlaw Audio / HSU and it should be fine. Save $1500 to the pocket. biggrin.gif

Are you trying to do what he did Audioholics forum?

I think our friend sputter1 well described as a:
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...(within it's limits)
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post #25 of 34 Old 01-15-2013, 11:34 AM
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I dont get what you are saying. I have clearly mentioned the +ve reputation of PB13 Ultra for handling low base. Is that something wrong ? biggrin.gif
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Are you trying to do what he did Audioholics forum?

I think our friend sputter1 well described as a:
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post #26 of 34 Old 01-15-2013, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raks View Post

Really Sputter ? Then why pay 2K for SVS PB13 Ultra ? Just get a $500 sub from Outlaw Audio / HSU and it should be fine. Save $1500 to the pocket. biggrin.gif
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Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

Really? The sub will play whatever is sent to it, whether it's 40hz or 15hz (within it's limits)

I need to spell it out? You're paying it's control, the depth and the spl over it's bandwidth. (fyi, I have dual Hsu's 15H so i'm not biased on the SVS sub).
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post #27 of 34 Old 01-15-2013, 11:41 AM
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That is exactly what i said too Sputter1. PB13 forte is handling low base and so the OP is seeing a good HT experience. When it comes to handling music and Mid-Base, there are other subs that are known for handling that with control, speed and finesse (Velodyne, REL, etc). I was just suggesting the OP to do a comparision to see whether it is his setting / env (or) it is really the sub.
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I need to spell it out? You're paying it's control, the depth and the spl over it's bandwidth. (fyi, I have dual Hsu's 15H so i'm not biased on the SVS sub).
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post #28 of 34 Old 01-15-2013, 11:48 AM
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I dont get what you are saying. I have clearly mentioned the +ve reputation of PB13 Ultra for handling low base. Is that something wrong ? biggrin.gif

Ok, my English may not be accurate, I'm Spanish, so I apologize for it not the message exactly as pretend.

The configuration problem is, I have the little brother of PB13 (PB12-Plus DSP) and gives me the bass punch for music, theater-like effect I get earthquake and blow to the chest.

That is why I say it's a configuration problem, you might also need to increase the volume on the subwoofer channel.

One trick is to use the subwoofer and 2 PEQ1 and give each PEQ +3 db in a certain frequency range with a "Q" low (As an example, 2.0).
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post #29 of 34 Old 01-15-2013, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Raks View Post

That is exactly what i said too Sputter1. PB13 forte is handling low base and so the OP is seeing a good HT experience. When it comes to handling music and Mid-Base, there are other subs that are known for handling that with control, speed and finesse (Velodyne, REL, etc). I was just suggesting the OP to do a comparision to see whether it is his setting / env (or) it is really the sub.

It's bass not base. wink.gif

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post #30 of 34 Old 01-15-2013, 06:08 PM
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Thanks for pointing out and it helps the thread mighty. biggrin.gif
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It's bass not base. wink.gif
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