SVS choices? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-19-2013, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
ceh383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I'm in the market for a new sub, I can only have 1, and have only 1 placement option, and it's not optimal. I was looking at the PB-1000, mainly due to it's size and price. I scratched that because I don't think it will have enough output for my room.
The room is about 3000 cu. ft. with large openings to the rest of the house.

I'm now considering the PB12-NSD, which should work for me. From everything I've read for the price it's a beast with solid performance.
The enclosure size is about as large as I can work with, I would prefer something a little smaller. To me, it seems well worth the price.

I am also wondering about the SB13-Ultra, I like the size a little better. It has a larger amp, not sure I'll need that.
The questions I have are...

Is the performance that much better to be worth twice the price?

Why would a sub go to 460Hz (don't know why, but this bugs me) , and SVS recommend a 60Hz crossover?

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
Where I work... www.rpm-psi.com
ceh383 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-19-2013, 10:23 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

I'm in the market for a new sub, I can only have 1, and have only 1 placement option, and it's not optimal. I was looking at the PB-1000, mainly due to it's size and price. I scratched that because I don't think it will have enough output for my room.
The room is about 3000 cu. ft. with large openings to the rest of the house.

PSA, XS30
BeeMan458 is offline  
Old 01-19-2013, 10:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,841
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

I'm in the market for a new sub, I can only have 1, and have only 1 placement option, and it's not optimal. I was looking at the PB-1000, mainly due to it's size and price. I scratched that because I don't think it will have enough output for my room.
The room is about 3000 cu. ft. with large openings to the rest of the house.

I'm now considering the PB12-NSD, which should work for me. From everything I've read for the price it's a beast with solid performance.
The enclosure size is about as large as I can work with, I would prefer something a little smaller. To me, it seems well worth the price.

I am also wondering about the SB13-Ultra, I like the size a little better. It has a larger amp, not sure I'll need that.
The questions I have are...

Is the performance that much better to be worth twice the price?

Why would a sub go to 460Hz (don't know why, but this bugs me) , and SVS recommend a 60Hz crossover?

First of all, I would probably give SVS a call. With just one sub and limited placement, it is a tough call, because you could pay double for something and, due to placement, not get the full benefits of double the price. Any way you can draw a sketch of your room so we can see what your placement options are? Middle of the room is a bass null, so if you are sitting in the center of the room, you will not feel the bass as you are sitting in a null.

You also seem to be 100% committed to SVS (which is not a bad thing) but have you considered other options? Any change you could fit something like a PSA XS-30 in your placement?

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/xs30

As for frequency response, you typically want to stick in the 60-100hz range due to localization. Everyone is different, but I can localize bass in the 100hz and above range easy, and so I prefer sticking with 60-100hz and have currently settled on 80hz. What speakers you have will dictate the crossover point. If you are using small satellite speakers you may need a 120hz crossover. If you have speakers with drivers that can play clean to 40hz, you may want to stick with 60-80hz.
ack_bk is offline  
Old 01-19-2013, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
ceh383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Here's a poor layout of the room...

Primary seating is close to the middle of the room, so I could be in a null zone....
Ceiling height is 8' on the sliding door side to 10' on the fireplace side.
Existing speakers are DefTech 8060ST fronts with 8040 center and surrounds.

The XS30 looks good to me, but it is slightly larger than the PB12-NSD which is already pushing the WAF...

I'm not necessarily sold on SVS, although I can't find a bad review anywhere. That's why I looked there first, I'm open to any suggestions...
The Rythmik E15HP looks good as well.

I work 60+ hours a week, I don't have time to audition a dozen different subs...Or the budget to pay return shipping for that matter.
WAF plays a part in that as well...

Just looking for options, opinions

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
Where I work... www.rpm-psi.com
ceh383 is offline  
Old 01-19-2013, 01:20 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

The XS30 looks good to me, but it is slightly larger than the PB12-NSD which is already pushing the WAF...

Overall, based on various sizes, it really isn't that large of a sub. The laws of physics take over regarding box size and sound quality. The size of the XS30 is a reasonable size for what you get. After a bit, considering your imaged placement position, the sub will quite literally, blend and in short order, become benign and unobtrusive.

Quote:
I'm not necessarily sold on SVS, although I can't find a bad review anywhere. That's why I looked there first, I'm open to any suggestions...
The Rythmik E15HP looks good as well.

Not intentionally leaving anybody out but if going with just one sub, my opinion, for the price, your choices revolve around SVS's, Ultra line, PSA's, XS30 subwoofer or price wise, stepping up to the top tier subs like the Seaton Sound, SubMersive, HP, the JTR, Captivator series or Funk Audio's, 18.0 C. High WAF can be found in the form of a Funk Audio, 18.0 C but "youse going pays for it." Based on published specs, with it's dual 15" drivers, the PSA, XS30 can do about 3dB louder than the Funk Audio. But in the case of the 18.0 C, there's zero chance the PSA, XS30 looks as good as the Funk Audio, 18.0 C. In my opinion, the Captivator is a big black box best suited for dedicated Home Theater rooms where WAF has less influence and the SubMersive is more like the Funk Audio offerings. Trying to give a neutral recommendation here.

Quote:
WAF plays a part in that as well...

With size being the limiting factor, you might, realizing you stated one subwoofer and only one subwoofer, [[/URL]. consider the Funk Audio, 18.0 C.

Quote:
Just looking for options, opinions

One thing's for sure, none of those are to be found around here tongue.gif

-
BeeMan458 is offline  
Old 01-19-2013, 01:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
KidHorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Derwood, Maryland
Posts: 2,965
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 225 Post(s)
Liked: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Middle of the room is a bass null, so if you are sitting in the center of the room, you will not feel the bass as you are sitting in a null.

That's not always true. There are many factors that determine where nulls are and typically a room will have several nulls that occur in different frequency bands. Having only one sub, in or itself, will likely increase the amount of nulls in a room.
KidHorn is offline  
Old 01-19-2013, 02:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljaycanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,554
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 204 Post(s)
Liked: 586
Quote:
... I can only have 1, and have only 1 placement option, and it's not optimal. ... The room is about 3000 cu. ft. with large openings to the rest of the house.

I'm now considering the PB12-NSD, which should work for me. From everything I've read for the price it's a beast with solid performance. ...

I am also wondering about the SB13-Ultra ... Is the performance that much better to be worth twice the price?
I don't know if the SB13-Ultra is worth twice the price of a PB12-NSD, but it's more powerful, uses better components, and it has built-in DSP, which can help overcome at least some of the shortcomings of being locked into one placement location. Then again, a PB12-NSD with something like a miniDSP can provide similar compensation. Or a different sub like an HSU VTF15-H (with PEQ).

Of course, if there are no shortcomings to your one placement location, the above points are moot.
Quote:
Why would a sub go to 460Hz (don't know why, but this bugs me) , and SVS recommend a 60Hz crossover?
If SVS says one of its subs can go to 460Hz, then that's what it can do. And should you choose to pair the sub with very small speakers, you can set the crossover very high for better blending. But you don't have to.
eljaycanuck is offline  
Old 01-19-2013, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
ceh383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I just got off the phone with SVS customer service. After giving him room characteristics/layout he had no clear recommendation other than trial and error.
Quote:
Overall, based on various sizes, it really isn't that large of a sub. The laws of physics take over regarding box size and sound quality. The size of the XS30 is a reasonable size for what you get.
Understood, but I would like to keep it as unobtrusive as possible, and the wife could care less about sound...She's good with a cheapo boom box...LOL
Quote:
With size being the limiting factor, you might, realizing you stated one subwoofer and only one subwoofer, consider the Funk Audio, 18.0 C.
That is a fine looking piece, I'm sure it plays very well also. It is, however, out of my price range...$1500 is the absolute max I can spend right now. In the past month and a half I've spent almost 6k on upgrading everything else....
Quote:
I don't know if the SB13-Ultra is worth twice the price of a PB12-NSD, but it's more powerful, uses better components, and it has built-in DSP, which can help overcome at least some of the shortcomings of being locked into one placement location.
More output and built-in DSP are the reasons why I became interested in this one....

To many choices....

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
Where I work... www.rpm-psi.com
ceh383 is offline  
Old 01-19-2013, 04:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nashou66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: West Seneca, NY
Posts: 4,364
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 86
For your room i would go with a ported sub.

Why not the PB12 Plus? Is it too large?

I think for your size room that be the best choice for your budget.

A ported Sub will have more output and extension.



Athanasios
nashou66 is online now  
Old 01-20-2013, 07:55 AM
Senior Member
 
Lecter83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: España / Asturias - Gijón
Posts: 391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

For your room i would go with a ported sub.

Why not the PB12 Plus? Is it too large?

I think for your size room that be the best choice for your budget.

A ported Sub will have more output and extension.



Athanasios

The PB12-Plus is the best compromise in quality and price of the entire firm SVS.

It's a good option and can shake an entire house. It is equivalent to a 750w Bash PB13-Ultra. rolleyes.gif

I had a PC13 and went with the PB12-Plus DSP in my room I do not miss the PC13. biggrin.gif
Lecter83 is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 08:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,841
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Having the sub placed close to the seating position is most likely a plus. I think the BP12 + is a great option, but if you think the PSA XS30 is too large, I am not sure you can make the 12+ work as it is even larger.

If it was me, I would probably try to stretch a little into the PB12+ or the PSA XS30, but if those are too large, then the PB12 NSD is not a bad bet. What sub do you have now?
ack_bk is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 08:33 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

To many choices....

Now you get to struggle with the true meaning of compromise.

There's one more not mentioned as a possibility, Hsu, ULF-15.

Small size, high WAF, small (by comparison) price but, not as much output as the XS30.
BeeMan458 is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
ceh383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

What sub do you have now?

Right now, I don't have a separate sub. I have DefTech 8060ST's that have built-in 10" subs with 300 watt amps.
They sound good, but don't dig deep enough.

Where I have to place the sub the floor transitions from wood to tile with raised molding between the two. So anything larger than the PB12-NSD will require a custom built stand,
That's where WAF comes into play...

I may end up going with the PC12+. It has a small enough foot print to fit, and I like the tuning options...

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
Where I work... www.rpm-psi.com
ceh383 is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 08:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,841
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

Right now, I don't have a separate sub. I have DefTech 8060ST's that have built-in 10" subs with 300 watt amps.
They sound good, but don't dig deep enough.

Where I have to place the sub the floor transitions from wood to tile with raised molding between the two. So anything larger than the PB12-NSD will require a custom built stand,
That's where WAF comes into play...

I may end up going with the PC12+. It has a small enough foot print to fit, and I like the tuning options...

PC12+ will sound just as good as the PB12+. I say go for it. You will definitely get some bass you have been missing. SVS customer service and warranties are top notch too. Nothing really negative to say about them, and at $1199 the PC12+ is a good deal.
ack_bk is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
ceh383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Now you get to struggle with the true meaning of compromise.

There's one more not mentioned as a possibility, Hsu, ULF-15.

Small size, high WAF, small (by comparison) price but, not as much output as the XS30.

That is an option as well, nice looking for sure....I'll have to make a cardboard cutout and see if it will fit without a stand.

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
Where I work... www.rpm-psi.com
ceh383 is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
ceh383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Thank you all for the input.

After reading many reviews on each of the suggested subs, and making a few cardboard cutouts to simulate size I have pulled the trigger on the SVS PC12+
I could not find any bad reviews on any of the suggested options, so sound wise any of them would work well.

Thanks again...

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
Where I work... www.rpm-psi.com
ceh383 is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 10:22 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

I could not find any bad reviews on any of the suggested options, so sound wise any of them would work well.

Sure makes it hard to choose when that happens.

Of course, now you get to reciprocate and once set up and dialed in, you get to come back and we get to read what you think of your choice. tongue.gif
BeeMan458 is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
ceh383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Sure makes it hard to choose when that happens.

Of course, now you get to reciprocate and once set up and dialed in, you get to come back and we get to read what you think of your choice. tongue.gif

Indeed....and I plan to do so....

It is nice to have user reviews at your fingertips, much better than 25~30 years ago before the internet.

I guess now I'll need an SPL meter and a test tone CD to dial it in, then run Audyssey for the over all system setup...

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
Where I work... www.rpm-psi.com
ceh383 is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 10:52 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

I guess now I'll need an SPL meter and a test tone CD to dial it in, then run Audyssey for the over all system setup...

A glutton for punishment I see.

Which sound meter to go with?

What Audyssey/AVR settings to be used?

What's a subwoofer floor crawl?

What's REW?

How come I don't get that punch in the gut feeling I want to feel?

Why oh why did I choose to voluntarily light this candle?

Pretty much, endless. tongue.gif
BeeMan458 is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
ceh383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

A glutton for punishment I see.

Which sound meter to go with?

What Audyssey/AVR settings to be used?

What's a subwoofer floor crawl?

What's REW?

How come I don't get that punch in the gut feeling I want to feel?

Pretty much, endless. tongue.gif

It drives my wife crazy....Not sure if that is a + or a -....LOL

I may just borrow the calibrated Simpson meter from work.

Subwoofer crawl....It would just make me sad to find the best spot is in a walkway and the wife won't let me keep it there...

REW....We'll see....

Pretty much endless....Of course....

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
Where I work... www.rpm-psi.com
ceh383 is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 01:16 PM
Senior Member
 
DanL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
congrats on your decision! I have a similar room situation, about 3300cf with an opening to a large kitchen. I was looking at the smaller SVS SB models but after talking to SVS
I decided to try the PB-12NSD. I'm quite impressed so far. I found manually running the sub a few clicks "hotter" after the Audyssey calibration got me where I needed to be. But still
playing around with it. You will be impressed with SVS support and customer service.

Keep the thread active so we know how it works out for your situation.
DanL is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
ceh383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanL View Post

congrats on your decision! I have a similar room situation, about 3300cf with an opening to a large kitchen. I was looking at the smaller SVS SB models but after talking to SVS
I decided to try the PB-12NSD. I'm quite impressed so far. I found manually running the sub a few clicks "hotter" after the Audyssey calibration got me where I needed to be. But still
playing around with it. You will be impressed with SVS support and customer service.

Keep the thread active so we know how it works out for your situation.

If I get close to what all the reviews lead me to believe is possible... I will be happy.
I will give my honest review as soon as I can....

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
Where I work... www.rpm-psi.com
ceh383 is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 01:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,841
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 106
I would also check the Defech threads to find the best ay to integrate a separate sub with the built in Deftech subs.
ack_bk is offline  
Old 01-20-2013, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
ceh383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I would also check the Defech threads to find the best ay to integrate a separate sub with the built in Deftech subs.

I've been looking into that. I think I have an idea, but I will continue to read on the subject. I've got a week to figure it out...

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
Where I work... www.rpm-psi.com
ceh383 is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off