The big ID discount question... Rythmik, SVS, PSA and HSU. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 02-03-2013, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all...

Given the major ID brands of Subs: Rythmik, SVS, PSA and HSU... Are there times of the year where they have deals? Do some never discount?

Given the quality these guys put out...I think I would be happy with any of their subs but Papa likes a gewd deal!

So...was wondering if they discount these at any set time of year, its random but they do discount or they never discount their already great prices.
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post #2 of 17 Old 02-03-2013, 12:31 PM
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Already priced good. Just pull the trigger.

Oppo BDP103, Sony 70" LED, Definitive Technology Mythos STS Towers, Definitive Technology Mythos 9's x3, Pioneer SC-1523-K, Furman Elite 15, Harmony Ultimate Hub and Rythmik FV15HP.
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post #3 of 17 Old 02-03-2013, 12:32 PM
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I would say it would very rare to get a sale on subs from any of those companies. You can check their sites for slightly damaged or refurbed items though. You can often get a discount on buying multiples.

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post #4 of 17 Old 02-03-2013, 12:32 PM
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.....

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post #5 of 17 Old 02-03-2013, 12:34 PM
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I don't normally see sales on Rythmik subs, although they have had deals here and there in the past. They have free shipping on their FV12 at the moment. Likewise, SVS has occiasonal deals, but it isn't frequent, nor are the discounts very big. PSA hasn't been around long enough to establish a record on the matter. Hsu always has a sale going on on one or two of their products, but their discounts aren't as good as good they used to be. Outlaw Used to have spectacular sales that only lasted a short while but offered a steep discount and free shipping on their subs. They don't quite have the massive discounts that they used to, but are still very good and when you factor in free shipping they are still the best in that regard. If you want to wait for a a good deal for a new sub, Outlaw is the best out there, but their sales only crop up a couple times a year and don't last very long. Last time I saw, you could get a LFM-1 EX for $600 shipped.
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post #6 of 17 Old 02-05-2013, 08:42 AM
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You have to realize these ID brands don't have the huge mark up the big box store brands have so you're not going to see monster price slashes. Their focus is performance at VALUE. When you see free shipping and such, it's still all wrapped into the price, it's just how it is presented to the consumer (shipping 100+ pound subs is not cheep). I suspect working within that profit margin is a very delicate balance and doing it successfully is not nearly as financially rewarding as we'd like to think. I met the successful Mark Seaton and Jeff from JTR at a sub GTG. They came themselves to share their knowledge and products and were very down to earth, enjoyable folks. They didn't strike me as CEO's of multinational conglomerates with 20 thousand employee's (15,000 sales, 4,000 marketing, 900 senior management, 80 interns, 10 customer service, 8 product assembly, and 2 engineers in charge of sys admin also). These fellas don't have 5 personal assistants and 30 vice presidents as far as I could tell.



Can't speak about the other brands but I can speak to the Rythmik. Rythmik keeps the shipping cost separate, so when they offer free shipping on a product it is truly a sale and not marketing trickery BS. As mentioned earlier in the thread they offered free shipping on the FV12 for awhile, I suspect they were trying to move some extra units to make room for the just introduce LV12R. The LV12R has an introductory price of 549 for the first two months then it will go to 600. The constant sale you get from Rythmik is the multi sub discount. When buying multiples you get 10% off each sub. They will honor this even if you buy the second sub later (mine were ~6 months apart) so essentially I got 20% off for the second sub on the loyalty discount. Also they look to provide value. After the 600 watt FV15HP was out a long time Rythmik found they can offer a 550watt version at $100 less which is less than a .5db decrease in SPL. That's just smart savings and good business for them to put in the effort to come up with that value oriented offering.

So in summary you will occasionally get a product specific discount. They offer introductory price discounts on new products (not sure if it will always be like that). They look to offer and improve value on their products, and they have a multi-sub / loyalty discount.
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post #7 of 17 Old 02-05-2013, 12:35 PM
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post #8 of 17 Old 02-05-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

You have to realize these ID brands don't have the huge mark up the big box store brands have so you're not going to see monster price slashes. Their focus is performance at VALUE. When you see free shipping and such, it's still all wrapped into the price, it's just how it is presented to the consumer (shipping 100+ pound subs is not cheep). I suspect working within that profit margin is a very delicate balance and doing it successfully is not nearly as financially rewarding as we'd like to think. I met the successful Mark Seaton and Jeff from JTR at a sub GTG. They came themselves to share their knowledge and products and were very down to earth, enjoyable folks. They didn't strike me as CEO's of multinational conglomerates with 20 thousand employee's (15,000 sales, 4,000 marketing, 900 senior management, 80 interns, 10 customer service, 8 product assembly, and 2 engineers in charge of sys admin also). These fellas don't have 5 personal assistants and 30 vice presidents as far as I could tell.



Can't speak about the other brands but I can speak to the Rythmik. Rythmik keeps the shipping cost separate, so when they offer free shipping on a product it is truly a sale and not marketing trickery BS. As mentioned earlier in the thread they offered free shipping on the FV12 for awhile, I suspect they were trying to move some extra units to make room for the just introduce LV12R. The LV12R has an introductory price of 549 for the first two months then it will go to 600. The constant sale you get from Rythmik is the multi sub discount. When buying multiples you get 10% off each sub. They will honor this even if you buy the second sub later (mine were ~6 months apart) so essentially I got 20% off for the second sub on the loyalty discount. Also they look to provide value. After the 600 watt FV15HP was out a long time Rythmik found they can offer a 550watt version at $100 less which is less than a .5db decrease in SPL. That's just smart savings and good business for them to put in the effort to come up with that value oriented offering.

So in summary you will occasionally get a product specific discount. They offer introductory price discounts on new products (not sure if it will always be like that). They look to offer and improve value on their products, and they have a multi-sub / loyalty discount.


I wonder about the not having a large markup part. May not be quite as large as retail but how much do you think a retailer would really be able to sell a PB13 Ultra for? I don't they would price it much higher than the $2, 000 already being asked for it. I also think there is a lot of overhead being saved with ID. I could be totally off base of course. Make that off bass. lol

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post #9 of 17 Old 02-05-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I wonder about the not having a large markup part. May not be quite as large as retail but how much do you think a retailer would really be able to sell a PB13 Ultra for? I don't they would price it much higher than the $2, 000 already being asked for it. I also think there is a lot of overhead being saved with ID. I could be totally off base of course. Make that off bass. lol

I think you are onto something here. I do believe that ID brands eliminate some of the middleman markup, but who's to say that the ID brands are not just adding that same markup to their subs?

Personally I prefer the ID model as I like buying directly from the manufacturer. I do feel that ID brands typically offer more bang for the buck and tend to have superior products vs their competitors, but it is not always the case.

Look the the Klipsch 12D when it is $299 at Newegg. I can't think of an ID sub that can match the performance for the money.
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post #10 of 17 Old 02-05-2013, 01:00 PM
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I think you are onto something here. I do believe that ID brands eliminate some of the middleman markup, but who's to say that the ID brands are not just adding that same markup to their subs?

Personally I prefer the ID model as I like buying directly from the manufacturer. I do feel that ID brands typically offer more bang for the buck and tend to have superior products vs their competitors, but it is not always the case.

Look the the Klipsch 12D when it is $299 at Newegg. I can't think of an ID sub that can match the performance for the money.


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post #11 of 17 Old 02-05-2013, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I wonder about the not having a large markup part. May not be quite as large as retail but how much do you think a retailer would really be able to sell a PB13 Ultra for? I don't they would price it much higher than the $2, 000 already being asked for it. I also think there is a lot of overhead being saved with ID. I could be totally off base of course. Make that off bass. lol

I don't know about that. Just taking a quick tour of some of the bigger names in B&M stores (and not looking at the ultra high end $$$ makers like Wilson, etc)
All prices MSRP (street is probably much lower)
Kef
Model 209: $15,999
Model 208: $7,500
R400b: $1,699

B&W
DB1: $4,500
ASW12CN: $2,000
ASW 610SP: $1,599

Velodyne
DD18+: $4,999
DD18+: $3,999
DD12+: $3,399

JL Audio
Fathom F113 (gloss): $3,700
Fathom F212 (gloss): $6,300

I'm not picking on any of the above, but if looking at various performance criteria, subs such as the SVS Ultra, Seaton SubM, JTR Cap, and various models from PSA and Hsu all compare favorably, at a significant discount.

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post #12 of 17 Old 02-05-2013, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

I don't know about that. Just taking a quick tour of some of the bigger names in B&M stores (and not looking at the ultra high end $$$ makers like Wilson, etc)
All prices MSRP (street is probably much lower)
Kef
Model 209: $15,999
Model 208: $7,500
R400b: $1,699

B&W
DB1: $4,500
ASW12CN: $2,000
ASW 610SP: $1,599

Velodyne
DD18+: $4,999
DD18+: $3,999
DD12+: $3,399

JL Audio
Fathom F113 (gloss): $3,700
Fathom F212 (gloss): $6,300

I'm not picking on any of the above, but if looking at various performance criteria, subs such as the SVS Ultra, Seaton SubM, JTR Cap, and various models from PSA and Hsu all compare favorably, at a significant discount.


I ask this because I honestly don't know. Are any of the subs we buy from svs, psa, hsu, or rythmik equal to or better than most of those listed? I want to be discussing apples to apples. Many DYI'ers claim to be able to easily beat ID prices so there is still room to come down on a lot of the subs and still make a profit.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
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Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
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post #13 of 17 Old 02-05-2013, 01:57 PM
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I don't like to give absolutes as there are always personal preferences which will come into play and various metrics one can choose. If looking at performance criteria such as GD, SPL, THD, SPL/$, etc, then yes, ID subs (SVS, JTR, Seaton, Hsu, Rythmik, etc) can better many/most/all of the above mentioned subs.

As for profit, I don't expect anyone to run a charity. Materials, R&D, labor, packaging, shipping, veneering/finishing, QC, marketing, overhead, credit card/paypall fees, web server/site fees, etc., all come into play. If one is looking at DIY, one should also take into mind the cost of the tools (which may or may not be amortized over various projects), labor costs (I don't work for free for others, why should I not count time spent when working for myself? If it takes me ~8+ hours to buy materials and build a box, what is the equivalent $ in wages? ), work space costs (people forget that they are making things at home, a cost they are already carrying. Try making dozens/hundreds of subs at home every month and you'll find you are quickly running out of space).

I am sure a great many people find a great value in DIY, but the added costs that surround each project tend to disappear in some comparisons.

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post #14 of 17 Old 02-05-2013, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post

I ask this because I honestly don't know. Are any of the subs we buy from svs, psa, hsu, or rythmik equal to or better than most of those listed? I want to be discussing apples to apples. Many DYI'ers claim to be able to easily beat ID prices so there is still room to come down on a lot of the subs and still make a profit.

No matter how altruistic an ID manufacturer might be, they cannot sustain a business without a decent profit margin. They might save on marketing and sales overhead, and devote resources to customer service. Price premiums attributed to multiple middlemen in traditional channels can be saved and passed on as savings to the customer, but an ID manufacturer that doesn't build in healthy profit will be gone sooner than later, unfortunately.
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post #15 of 17 Old 02-05-2013, 02:08 PM
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post #16 of 17 Old 02-05-2013, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

Hi all...

Given the major ID brands of Subs: Rythmik, SVS, PSA and HSU... Are there times of the year where they have deals? Do some never discount?

Given the quality these guys put out...I think I would be happy with any of their subs but Papa likes a gewd deal!

So...was wondering if they discount these at any set time of year, its random but they do discount or they never discount their already great prices.

Discounts happen from time to time, but if your luck is like mine, when you do find the discount....there's no money to spend...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post


As for profit, I don't expect anyone to run a charity. Materials, R&D, labor, packaging, shipping, veneering/finishing, QC, marketing, overhead, credit card/paypall fees, web server/site fees, etc., all come into play.
For someone with experience and knowledge in building subs it may not be too time intensive. For the average person, it will be a totally different story.
For me, if I have 8 hours research, 8 hours design, 8 hours build + materials..... It just cost me more than the SVS I bought...And I don't even have the tools required yet....

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
Where I work... www.rpm-psi.com
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post #17 of 17 Old 02-06-2013, 09:24 PM
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When I was working for one of the big box stores during college the employee price was cost paid by the store plus a small shipping fee. Electronics and speakers had a 100%-150% mark up, and the manufacturers were still making a nice profit. I'm pretty surprised how quality the ID subs are when looking at their very reasonable prices. Great to have these high value options available.
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