Ken kreisel dxd 12012 sub really worth the price tag!? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 125 Old 01-25-2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiorgio View Post

I see this thread is about 6 months old but would like some input.

Im thinking about getting rid of my dual Velodyne DD12 setup and replace with a Kreisel DUO 12 setup.

How will me bass differ?

Also, i will be using Audysee Sub Eq with dual outputs. Audysee equalize them seperately. Is this a plus or minus with the DUO setup?

This was the original post!
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post #92 of 125 Old 01-25-2014, 01:28 PM
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The answer is what is he lacking and what is he looking for. Do we have numbers on both to compare output? I think we know the output of the DD18 so is the DD12 6 dBs less?
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post #93 of 125 Old 01-26-2014, 05:27 PM
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ok, just picked up a pair to make the DUO 12

We'll see what these are about when i get them in about a week.

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #94 of 125 Old 01-27-2014, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiorgio View Post

ok, just picked up a pair to make the DUO 12

We'll see what these are about when i get them in about a week.
eek.gif

I'm so jealous ! As a side note do be afraid to drive them hard after the recomended 20 min of loosening the drivers, it took almost 2 months of regular playback before they fully run in, which is nice when you already thought they were wink.gif

Post back the results as I can't wait to here your thoughts !

Congrats smile.gif
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post #95 of 125 Old 01-27-2014, 08:08 AM
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They are already broken in. Just over a year old. Saved a lot of money and makes it easy to do the "Subwoofer Bucket List".

Now i get to keep the Velodyne's and do a comparison. Might even try to equalize all 4 into system, a little sick, but what the hell, fun trying. smile.gif
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7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #96 of 125 Old 01-28-2014, 05:07 AM
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I will be interested to hear your thoughts and comparisons against the Velodyne's that you already own, the DXD12012 DUO is a great combination cool.gif

John
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post #97 of 125 Old 02-06-2014, 03:51 PM
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DUO hooked up. Very different sound than Velo's

Not real thrilled at the moment. To start, the output is miserable. there is green dot where output i supposed to be set. If i leave them, there is no volume. Had to turn the know 3/4 to +3db.

For the life of me, i cant get Audysee to move these thing for nothing. When Audysee does its test tone, it sound like its farting.

Had to go into menu of receiver and set sub from -10db to +8 to get anything.

Subs are stacked, 2 inches from wall, 4 from back, Variable Low Pass all the way down at 40hz, Variable Phase at 0, Bass Level at +3, Low Pass Filter at Off

Connection: Sub LFE to LFE in out on sub. XLR Direct pass thru to XLR input on Upper sub.

Missing anything?

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #98 of 125 Old 02-06-2014, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiorgio View Post

DUO hooked up. Very different sound than Velo's

Not real thrilled at the moment. To start, the output is miserable. there is green dot where output i supposed to be set. If i leave them, there is no volume. Had to turn the know 3/4 to +3db.

For the life of me, i cant get Audysee to move these thing for nothing. When Audysee does its test tone, it sound like its farting.

Had to go into menu of receiver and set sub from -10db to +8 to get anything.

Subs are stacked, 2 inches from wall, 4 from back, Variable Low Pass all the way down at 40hz, Variable Phase at 0, Bass Level at +3, Low Pass Filter at Off

Connection: Sub LFE to LFE in out on sub. XLR Direct pass thru to XLR input on Upper sub.

Missing anything?

excuse all the typo's

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #99 of 125 Old 02-06-2014, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiorgio View Post

excuse all the typo's

Try lowering the gain of the subs. If Audyssey is setting it to -10db than it's already to high.

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #100 of 125 Old 02-06-2014, 05:53 PM
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Also are the speakers set to small? what xo did it set?

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #101 of 125 Old 02-06-2014, 08:17 PM
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Strange, im getting decent music and movie volumes with current settings, but cant get any decent output for Audysee to work on the subs.

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #102 of 125 Old 02-06-2014, 11:23 PM
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You got them smile.gif Try one sub at a time first, also is the top sub inverted and which model Marantz?
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post #103 of 125 Old 02-06-2014, 11:26 PM
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And lets get you to the guys with Quattro and Duo stacks for proper setup here's the link wink.gif

http://www.speakershack.co.uk/
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post #104 of 125 Old 02-07-2014, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

And lets get you to the guys with Quattro and Duo stacks for proper setup here's the link wink.gif

http://www.speakershack.co.uk/

Cool, thanks.

Using my 7002 until the new Marantz 7008 gets here on Monday

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #105 of 125 Old 02-08-2014, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiorgio View Post

DUO hooked up. Very different sound than Velo's

Not real thrilled at the moment. To start, the output is miserable. there is green dot where output i supposed to be set. If i leave them, there is no volume. Had to turn the know 3/4 to +3db.

For the life of me, i cant get Audysee to move these thing for nothing. When Audysee does its test tone, it sound like its farting.

Had to go into menu of receiver and set sub from -10db to +8 to get anything.

Subs are stacked, 2 inches from wall, 4 from back, Variable Low Pass all the way down at 40hz, Variable Phase at 0, Bass Level at +3, Low Pass Filter at Off

Connection: Sub LFE to LFE in out on sub. XLR Direct pass thru to XLR input on Upper sub.

Missing anything?


Here is some DXD setup tips from Ken found at speakershack.co.uk if you missed it.
Quote:
KEN KREISEL wrote:

Here are a few key pointers on DUO and QUATTRO sub stacking and setup:

1. Be sure all the controls on the back of the DXD's are all set to their GREEN DOT position, especially the VARIABLE PHASE control. If all the VARIABLE PHASE CONTROLS are not set to the GREEN DOT position you run the chance that one or more of the DXD's will not be in absolute phase with the others causing severe degradation of sound. It is easy to accidentally move one of the VARIABLE PHASE knobs off its GREEN DOT position, especially when moving the cabinets, so be very careful.

I know the GREEN DOT position on the BASS LEVEL control puts some auto calibration systems beyond their range, but all DXD's in the stack must be at absolutely equal output and the GREEN DOT position is the only easy way to assure this. Also, the following suggested first setup technique is recommended without using any auto calibration.

2. If you are using custom made XLR cables to feed and to interconnect the DXD's, you should check and double check that the XLR wiring phase and the "+" and the "-" XLR wires are wired and soldered correctly. If the wiring phase is flipped, then one or more subs can be working out-of-phase causing severe sound degradation and low output. If one of the XLR +/- wires is not wired and soldered correctly, one or more of the subs could have low output by -6dB.

Commercially made XLR cables typically are properly tested for phase and continuity before shipping. You would be amazed how many times I have seen a problem with custom made XLR cables incorrectly wired causing poor bass quality (these custom length cables are made by a custom installer usually at the jobsite and not properly tested). Everyone assumes their custom cables are working OK as they hear a signal, but with custom made XLR cables the wiring can easily be wrong. If you have an ohm meter it is easy to check for proper XLR wiring using a continuity test measuring the continuity from each pin at one end of the cable to the matching pin at the other end (they are usually numbered on each end with the pin number visibly molded into the connector). For example, PIN 1 on one end should have continuity with PIN 1 on the other end of the cable. PIN 1 is the ground, PIN 2 is signal "+" and PIN 3 is signal "-". Be sure to check that each pin is only wired to the matching pin on the other end of the cable without any shorts to other pins.

Some specially made custom XLR cables might have PIN 1 not wired at one end to reduce low level ground loops, but that's another story...

3. Even if you cannot use a room corner for your final DXD placement, for your own edification and enjoyment, please try at least once your DUO or QUATTRO in the closest solid corner to your primary listening position, even if this corner is in the rear of the room. One way to select the proper corner is to place one of your DXD's close to your primary listening position and play the subwoofer setup tone from your surround receiver or processor. Walk around the room and carefully listen with your head placed into each corner of the room, you can also use an SPL meter to get a relative SPL reading in each corner. Normally, one corner will appear to have more solid and deeper bass than the other corners and will measure with a higher SPL reading. This is the corner in which to first try the DXD DUO or QUATTRO.

Normal unclipped pink noise has audible random transient peaks of +12dB above its average level, this is why you use the SLOW setting on the SPL meter. You can sensitize yourself to listen for these very subtle random peaks which will tell you a lot about how solid are the corner walls (and your sub) and will give you some indication as to the bass punch you might feel from this location. There are a variety of test tones you could use but the built in subwoofer test tone in most surround processors makes this setup method easy and somewhat consistent from processor to processor.

Even if you or your audio consultant insists on multiple subs in multiple non-corner room locations, just for me, try the full stack in the proper corner and adjusted to the proper level. Feel free to compare this corner setup to multiple locations.

Also, be sure to remove any and all bass traps within about 6 feet of the corner. You can always add these later if needed.

Also, listen for any rattling walls, ceilings, or objects near the subs. These rattles will be distracting and add a directional element to the sub location. Also, vibrating walls will muddy your bass.

Remember, the DXD's are specifically designed to load into a corner for optimum performance, and the DUO's and QUATTRO DXD's must be in a proper corner to fully utilize their awesome pressure wave potential. You will not be disappointed if the DUO or QUATTRO is installed and connected correctly in the appropriate corner of your room.

4. Be sure your surround receiver or processor has the LFE channel low pass filter set to 120Hz. This is not the same as the bass management frequency which should automatically be set to the same frequency as you have set for each speaker in the system. Some processors do not allow you to set a different LFE frequency. Remember, the actual name LFE refers to a separate and independent channel of bass which normally is encoded to 120Hz, and which has 10dB more dynamic range than the other channels, and is not associated with any of the main channels. The LFE bass channel is then combined in your surround processor with the bass from all the main channels which you have set to SMALL and then the combined bass signals are sent to the subwoofer (some surround processors allow you to feed bass to the subwoofer from main channels set to LARGE).

5. Just for fun, buy yourself an SPL meter and try setting levels manually with all auto calibration systems like the Audyssey or Anti-Mode completely turned off or bypassed as well as all other EQ settings and limiters. Remember, keep the DXD BASS LEVEL controls at their GREEN DOT setting. You can always try the auto calibration systems later.

Run the manual test tones from your processor. Set your SPL meter to C weighting (or FLAT if it has such a setting) and SLOW integration time setting. Point the SPL meter directly at each speaker from the primary listening position and adjust each speaker to 75dB on the SPL meter. This means turning the SPL meter toward the side and surround speakers as you measure and set their level. Set the subwoofer level to either 78dB or 81dB as a start. There is a technical reason for the higher setting as a starting point when using pink noise (it is actually bandwidth limited pink noise) and an SPL meter.

The real Dolby studio and theater reference SPL level is 85dB. Because someone at Dolby decided years ago that 85dB was too loud to use for a test setup tone in the home, consumer surround processors use an internally generated test tone which is -10dB lower than the real Dolby studio test tone, so with this reduced level home test tone, consumers should set their SPL meters to 75dB as this procedure calibrates the consumer system to match the 85dB Dolby studio reference level.

Now, sit back and listen to your best bass demo material and get your ears calibrated to the bass quality without any auto calibration or EQ before trying auto calibration. In most rooms, if you try the above setup procedure you should be hearing and feeling fabulous high impact KEN KREISEL bass. If not, it is time to start experimenting, or emailing Russell Williams for advice.

Hope the above is helpful...KEN

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post #106 of 125 Old 02-08-2014, 03:44 PM
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Going to take the manual approach above when new receiver gets here.

I even have the test tone set at +10, +12 is highest. All other speakers are set at +4 for test tones. for Audysee

All other settings are as stated above.

All green dots as stated

LFE set at 120

Output-input is RCA LFE, not XLR. Old or new receiver does not have an XLR out for sub. Running 2 cables off of y adapter going to each sub

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #107 of 125 Old 02-08-2014, 04:00 PM
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Try an RCA to XLR in adapter then XLR out to XLR in.

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post #108 of 125 Old 02-08-2014, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBEAR2004 View Post

Try an RCA to XLR in adapter then XLR out to XLR in.

How will this make a difference?

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #109 of 125 Old 02-08-2014, 06:21 PM
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On my single sub from RCA to RCA AVR trims at -2, from RCA to XLR my AVR trims at - 9.

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post #110 of 125 Old 02-11-2014, 07:50 PM
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Made alot of headway.

Comparison to my Velodyne twin setup, not as much output but a different and interesting tone. They are actually working together nicely. The DUO setup gives you the very low frequencies while the Velodynes give you more of a punch and volume.

I have both setup on my Marantz 7008. The DUO is the left sub while the twin Velo's are the right sub. The DUO is trimmed at +2 while the Velo's are trimmed at -6 for a balance between them.

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #111 of 125 Old 02-11-2014, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiorgio View Post

Made alot of headway.

Comparison to my Velodyne twin setup, not as much output but a different and interesting tone. They are actually working together nicely. The DUO setup gives you the very low frequencies while the Velodynes give you more of a punch and volume.

I have both setup on my Marantz 7008. The DUO is the left sub while the twin Velo's are the right sub. The DUO is trimmed at +2 while the Velo's are trimmed at -6 for a balance between them.

Perhaps REW may help shed more light! Do you have any pics on how its all setup?
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post #112 of 125 Old 03-05-2014, 08:37 PM
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http://www.soundandvision.com/content/miller-kreisel-brand-returns

??????????????????????????????

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #113 of 125 Old 03-06-2014, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiorgio View Post

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/miller-kreisel-brand-returns

??????????????????????????????

Not to be confused with Ken Kreisel or KK speakers . So how goes the DXD integration? I take it your putting them through there paces any comments smile.gif
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post #114 of 125 Old 03-06-2014, 06:32 AM
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A lot going on in my setup. Liking them but still tryng to blance them with the 2 Velodynes on the other side.

I have an ISF calibration scheduled for my tv and we are going to do a sound calibration on that day also. I'll hav it the best it can be in a couple of weeks.
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post #115 of 125 Old 03-18-2014, 05:15 PM
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Looking to sell both DXD12's.

PM me if you are interested

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #116 of 125 Old 03-18-2014, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiorgio View Post

Looking to sell both DXD12's.

PM me if you are interested

I suppose this answers the question posed by this thread? ;)


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post #117 of 125 Old 03-18-2014, 07:30 PM
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I suppose this answers the question posed by this thread? wink.gif

Actually no. Chad B just left and did a 12 hour video and audio calibration. He was amazed how it all came together.

I just have too many different subs and sizes and want to try another setup.

Will be selling the Velodynes also, nothing wrong with those either.

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #118 of 125 Old 03-18-2014, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiorgio View Post

Actually no. Chad B just left and did a 12 hour video and audio calibration. He was amazed how it all came together.

I just have too many different subs and sizes and want to try another setup.

Will be selling the Velodynes also, nothing wrong with those either.

Time for SubMs or Caps?

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #119 of 125 Old 03-18-2014, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Time for SubMs or Caps?

Yep, thinking about pair of Sub M F2's. Got to sell these though. Dont need 6 high priced subwoofers laying around the house

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #120 of 125 Old 03-19-2014, 09:03 AM
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So you spent 12 hours calibratiing them in and now you're selling them? Crazy man... lol
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