Ken kreisel dxd 12012 sub really worth the price tag!? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 125 Old 02-09-2013, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Came across this the other day wondering if theres any talk about theses and what your take on them? Looking for a pair of sub soon!
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post #2 of 125 Old 02-12-2013, 04:45 PM
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I hear they are killer subs. I won the 12012 and will unbox this weekend and let you know what I think.
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post #3 of 125 Old 02-12-2013, 05:52 PM
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I did a review of the 808''s recently -- the little brother to the 12012 -- and found them to have extraordinary detail. Was the pair I looked at worth 4 grand? If you could afford it perhaps, but they're out of my reach for sure. I can tell you from first hand experience that Kreisel Sound makes some incredible subs.

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post #4 of 125 Old 02-12-2013, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by asere View Post

I hear they are killer subs. I won the 12012 and will unbox this weekend and let you know what I think.
Yes please let me know what you think!
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post #5 of 125 Old 02-12-2013, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

Came across this the other day wondering if theres any talk about theses and what your take on them? Looking for a pair of sub soon!

Worth the price yes yes yes! I've had my 12012 since mid Dec. and love the extremely high quality bass it plays regardless the note high or low and the real killer if you have a sub to trade, give them a call as the trade in is for any sub,I traded an M&K MX150 THX sub (14yr old) and got more than a generous deal, Keep in mind we are talking Ken Kreisel here! and the reviews in Secrets and L.A Audiophile are just a few who have taken notice that He's back and boy did he deliver with the cool.gif
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post #6 of 125 Old 02-12-2013, 09:08 PM
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I'm curious to the fate of the subs you turn in for credit lol

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #7 of 125 Old 02-12-2013, 09:08 PM
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I don't think they are overpriced. I think you get what you pay for!
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post #8 of 125 Old 02-12-2013, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

I'm curious to the fate of the subs you turn in for credit lol

Tell me about it hope its not like the swiffer comercials, I do wonder how the old girl is doing though:D
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post #9 of 125 Old 02-15-2013, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

Yes please let me know what you think!

I had the opportunity to listen th the 12012 yesterday after running Audyssey. The 12012 does not sound much different than my HSU vtf3 mk4 in fact I cant tell the difference except maybe the 12012 is slightly louder because it gets loud around the 45db on the avr master voulme. I have not had the opportunity to really listen to it with great material like a bluray film what I used was music with bass. I will let you know more once I audition it again.
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post #10 of 125 Old 02-15-2013, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by asere View Post

I had the opportunity to listen th the 12012 yesterday after running Audyssey. The 12012 does not sound much different than my HSU vtf3 mk4 in fact I cant tell the difference except maybe the 12012 is slightly louder because it gets loud around the 45db on the avr master voulme. I have not had the opportunity to really listen to it with great material like a bluray film what I used was music with bass. I will let you know more once I audition it again.
Really!? Thats a surprise not really sure this sub is for me from what i been hearing its a awsome sounding sub but dont think is has the output of what im looking for but let me know what else you experience?! Thanks
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post #11 of 125 Old 02-15-2013, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

Really!? Thats a surprise not really sure this sub is for me from what i been hearing its a awsome sounding sub but dont think is has the output of what im looking for but let me know what else you experience?! Thanks


The sub does sound awesome don't get me wrong and the bass I think is smoother than the HSU but I guess I don't see much output. I thought the HSU and Kreisel are in a different league. This weekend I will try different material and I might just listen to the HSU and Kreisel separately without Audyssey and compare.
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post #12 of 125 Old 02-15-2013, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by asere View Post

The sub does sound awesome don't get me wrong and the bass I think is smoother than the HSU but I guess I don't see much output. I thought the HSU and Kreisel are in a different league. This weekend I will try different material and I might just listen to the HSU and Kreisel separately without Audyssey and compare.
Nice will be waiting.
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post #13 of 125 Old 02-15-2013, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

Nice will be waiting.


How do you have the 12012 placed? is it corner loaded with the driver facing the wall? and did you use the reference "green dots on the sub panel or change them? Ken recommends the sub be placed 2-4" from the rear and side wall, I found good placement at 3" from the side and 6" from the rear, Also it takes alot to loosen up the driver's so play some heavy bass tracks as recommended by Ken to get sounding its best !

Hope this helps getting it set up its a great sub!
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post #14 of 125 Old 02-15-2013, 12:13 PM
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How do you have the 12012 placed? is it corner loaded with the driver facing the wall? and did you use the reference "green dots on the sub panel or change them? Ken recommends the sub be placed 2-4" from the rear and side wall, I found good placement at 3" from the side and 6" from the rear, Also it takes alot to loosen up the driver's so play some heavy bass tracks as recommended by Ken to get sounding its best !

Hope this helps getting it set up its a great sub!

The sub is not placed to the side because with my home you would be able to see the power cord and back panel and thats ugly. Ken did tell me that ideally it is better to place like the way you have it. The controls are all on the green dot except the gain because I of course had to bring it up from minimal. I did un box it yesterday so yes I do need to play a lot of bass heavy tracks. Sub is very nice and plays smooth I just need to give it time to let it break in.
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post #15 of 125 Old 02-15-2013, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post

The sub is not placed to the side because with my home you would be able to see the power cord and back panel and thats ugly. Ken did tell me that ideally it is better to place like the way you have it. The controls are all on the green dot except the gain because I of course had to bring it up from minimal. I did un box it yesterday so yes I do need to play a lot of bass heavy tracks. Sub is very nice and plays smooth I just need to give it time to let it break in.

I had to dial back the gain as well to get within the 75-76 Audyssey recommendation ! i'm not sure I understand your room , is the sub in a corner? or along a wall where there is only one wall adjacent to any part of the sub? Do you still have the quick setup paper? it has some placement options if a corner isn't possible, breakin the drivers and have fun while doing it and turn Audyssey off for placement and move it around a bit while playing some good bass content and when you do indeed find a place where you like it, run Audyssey again!

Post back if you can your findings smile.gif
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post #16 of 125 Old 02-15-2013, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

I had to dial back the gain as well to get within the 75-76 Audyssey recommendation ! i'm not sure I understand your room , is the sub in a corner? or along a wall where there is only one wall adjacent to any part of the sub? Do you still have the quick setup paper? it has some placement options if a corner isn't possible, breakin the drivers and have fun while doing it and turn Audyssey off for placement and move it around a bit while playing some good bass content and when you do indeed find a place where you like it, run Audyssey again!

Post back if you can your findings smile.gif

I think I know what my problem is. On the back of the sub there is a bass level for reference level that has a green dot. What I did was set it up a little above min. I am used to other subs were you move the gain.
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post #17 of 125 Old 02-15-2013, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post

I think I know what my problem is. On the back of the sub there is a bass level for reference level that has a green dot. What I did was set it up a little above min. I am used to other subs were you move the gain.

With the 808's I didn't use that "reference level" setting because it didn't provide the extension I was looking for. I set the gain to 0dB instead, which is where I left it for the rest of the time I had them.

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post #18 of 125 Old 02-15-2013, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

I had to dial back the gain as well to get within the 75-76 Audyssey recommendation ! i'm not sure I understand your room , is the sub in a corner? or along a wall where there is only one wall adjacent to any part of the sub? Do you still have the quick setup paper? it has some placement options if a corner isn't possible, breakin the drivers and have fun while doing it and turn Audyssey off for placement and move it around a bit while playing some good bass content and when you do indeed find a place where you like it, run Audyssey again!

Post back if you can your findings smile.gif

I have never seen a bass level knob like the 121012. What is 0 considered hot?
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post #19 of 125 Old 02-15-2013, 09:09 PM
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I have never seen a bass level knob like the 121012. What is 0 considered hot?

Zero is "0" the green dot makes it easier to match the levels in a stack of 2 or more as it would be very difficult to level match 4 of them in a Quad stack, so once you hear the click when you turn it you loose Ken's reference gain setting, mine ended up around the 10 o'clock position !
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Zero is "0" the green dot makes it easier to match the levels in a stack of 2 or more as it would be very difficult to level match 4 of them in a Quad stack, so once you hear the click when you turn it you loose Ken's reference gain setting, mine ended up around the 10 o'clock position !

Ken told me to calibrate it with Audyssey on the green dot . Is that were I always leave it?
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post #21 of 125 Old 02-15-2013, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post

Ken told me to calibrate it with Audyssey on the green dot . Is that were I always leave it?

Every room is different. Get an spl meter and run a test tone and get that sub to 75dB:D

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

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post #22 of 125 Old 02-16-2013, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post

Ken told me to calibrate it with Audyssey on the green dot . Is that were I always leave it?

My first calibration I used the green dot but on the final calculations from Audyssey on my Marantz 8801 the sub was almost at rock bottom 11.0 ( which is still in spec but some feel its to close to bottom) which is -12 if it doesn't bottom out on the final result then its fine to use Ken's setting.
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post #23 of 125 Old 02-16-2013, 05:43 AM
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My first calibration I used the green dot but on the final calculations from Audyssey on my Marantz 8801 the sub was almost at rock bottom 11.0 ( which is still in spec but some feel its to close to bottom) which is -12 if it doesn't bottom out on the final result then its fine to use Ken's setting.

So what I need to do is now that the sub is calibrated with Audyssey on the green dot is to go ahead and use an spl meter and make sure the sub reads 75 and if not go up some on the bass level knob to get it to read 75?
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post #24 of 125 Old 02-16-2013, 12:52 PM
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So what I need to do is now that the sub is calibrated with Audyssey on the green dot is to go ahead and use an spl meter and make sure the sub reads 75 and if not go up some on the bass level knob to get it to read 75?

Yep! does the initial Audyssey sweep for the bass level tell you to raise the level up or down? and are you using XT32? It can read hotter than 75db but Audyssey will correct the level and bring it down to 75 when its done, as long as its not at the bottom of your receiver or pre/pro's lower limit your fine! if it is at the limit now the move the knob from the green dot to get a match ,get it to to read 75-76db on the initial Audyssey bass sweep! this insures that Audyssey is correction bass all the way down and is not cut off by bottoming out the limit in your pre/pro or receiver.
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post #25 of 125 Old 02-16-2013, 02:13 PM
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Yep! does the initial Audyssey sweep for the bass level tell you to raise the level up or down? and are you using XT32? It can read hotter than 75db but Audyssey will correct the level and bring it down to 75 when its done, as long as its not at the bottom of your receiver or pre/pro's lower limit your fine! if it is at the limit now the move the knob from the green dot to get a match ,get it to to read 75-76db on the initial Audyssey bass sweep! this insures that Audyssey is correction bass all the way down and is not cut off by bottoming out the limit in your pre/pro or receiver.

I only have the Audyssey with multeq. Audyssey calibrated the sub at -1. I will run the sweep and see if it's at 75 and if not I will go up on the gain or subs bass level.
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post #26 of 125 Old 02-16-2013, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post

I only have the Audyssey with multeq. Audyssey calibrated the sub at -1. I will run the sweep and see if it's at 75 and if not I will go up on the gain or subs bass level.

Good! I can tell you it takes some time to loosen those 12's but the once there done! this thing seems limitless, I'm finaly getting around to watching my heavy hitting reference disc list, I watched the first two Star Wars ep.1 & 2 thus far and its not only the new level of room filling lows that impressed me, those have all ways been great on these disc but its the upper bass in areas I've never heard before that's brought new depth to movies one of my new fav's has to be the Astroroid scene with the ultrasonic wave that blast the larger one's apart for the first time it was unreal in the way the clean upper bass that filled the room in a 3 dimensional fashion it was great. Just for fun I kicked it up an extra 3.5db and It didn't break a sweat even at reference playback levels. The Pod race scene is just mind blowing and can you wanting to put your hands up for protection from debris! This is real bass!
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post #27 of 125 Old 02-16-2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Good! I can tell you it takes some time to loosen those 12's but the once there done! this thing seems limitless, I'm finaly getting around to watching my heavy hitting reference disc list, I watched the first two Star Wars ep.1 & 2 thus far and its not only the new level of room filling lows that impressed me, those have all ways been great on these disc but its the upper bass in areas I've never heard before that's brought new depth to movies one of my new fav's has to be the Astroroid scene with the ultrasonic wave that blast the larger one's apart for the first time it was unreal in the way the clean upper bass that filled the room in a 3 dimensional fashion it was great. Just for fun I kicked it up an extra 3.5db and It didn't break a sweat even at reference playback levels. The Pod race scene is just mind blowing and can you wanting to put your hands up for protection from debris! This is real bass!

Thanks I need to try the Star Wars films! In the meantime I'll keep breaking the sub in!
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post #28 of 125 Old 03-18-2013, 07:05 AM
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Nice will be waiting.

I went ahead and ran both subs together. On one location the Hsu was slightly softer than Kriesel and on another location it was the opposite. I had to go up more on the Hsu's gain to match the Kriesel's -5. Maybe that corner has more room gain than the other.
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post #29 of 125 Old 03-18-2013, 10:32 AM
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I have a different (much cheaper, probably way less capable) sub compared to yours, but my experience will apply equally to your scenario as well. Have you done the highly recommended "sub crawl" to determine the best placement for your sub? I used the RealTraps Test CD to play test tones (primarily 20-29 Hz, and the 30-39 Hz sweeps) to do the sub crawl, and determined the spot where I liked the bass the best. Placing the sub there and doing an Audyssey calibration made a great deal of difference to the quality of bass, as well as the tonal balance of the overall output, compared to my previous sub position. And this is with a sub that has less than 10hrs of total play time to that point. Give it a try and let us know if it makes a difference (it will). smile.gif
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post #30 of 125 Old 03-18-2013, 10:56 AM
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I have a different (much cheaper, probably way less capable) sub compared to yours, but my experience will apply equally to your scenario as well. Have you done the highly recommended "sub crawl" to determine the best placement for your sub? I used the RealTraps Test CD to play test tones (primarily 20-29 Hz, and the 30-39 Hz sweeps) to do the sub crawl, and determined the spot where I liked the bass the best. Placing the sub there and doing an Audyssey calibration made a great deal of difference to the quality of bass, as well as the tonal balance of the overall output, compared to my previous sub position. And this is with a sub that has less than 10hrs of total play time to that point. Give it a try and let us know if it makes a difference (it will). smile.gif
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