Official SVS SB-13 Ultra Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 324 Old 08-02-2014, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
Thinking about getting the SB13 Ultra to replace my SB12 NSD in my small bedroom, 13x14. Not sure if it will over power the room or not.
Nope, for movies well worth it.

I've got SVS SB12+ and SB Ultra 13. 12" in the hifi, 13" in the home theatre. I tried the 12" for movies, pretty mediocre if you ask me. Put it back in the Hifi and ordered the Ultra (had a PC Ultra before the SB Ultra so knew what Ultra was like) And that's in a room probably twice as small as yours.

Go for the Ultra if movies is important to you.

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post #272 of 324 Old 08-02-2014, 04:01 PM
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The SB12NSD slams pretty good in my bedroom, I would love to see what a SB13 Ultra would do. It would be 100% for movies, plus i like the sound of a sealed sub better than a ported.

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post #273 of 324 Old 08-02-2014, 04:16 PM
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If you think the SB12 slams hard...lol. The difference is massive. Easily worth the £700 or so extra. The SB12 is providing bass but not so much you fear of it like the Ultra 13. yeah that's why I changed from PCU13 to SBU13, I tried SB12 in place of the PC U13 for music, and prefer SB. So decided to side step from one Ultra to another.

No regrets going for Ultra. Could have gone for dual SB12 (SB2000) but with the single SB12 wasn't impressed so I doubt duals would give the same effect.

Analogy would be like you going from Pioneer Elite plasma to a 28" LCD. Does the same thing...just quite disappointing.

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post #274 of 324 Old 08-03-2014, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
If you think the SB12 slams hard...lol. The difference is massive. Easily worth the £700 or so extra. The SB12 is providing bass but not so much you fear of it like the Ultra 13. yeah that's why I changed from PCU13 to SBU13, I tried SB12 in place of the PC U13 for music, and prefer SB. So decided to side step from one Ultra to another.

No regrets going for Ultra. Could have gone for dual SB12 (SB2000) but with the single SB12 wasn't impressed so I doubt duals would give the same effect.

Analogy would be like you going from Pioneer Elite plasma to a 28" LCD. Does the same thing...just quite disappointing.
I got my SB12 up for sale.

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post #275 of 324 Old 08-03-2014, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Your room is very similar to mine. I also have cathedral ceilings and it's fairly open (approx 3,500 cu. ft.). Whether the SB13-Ultra will satisfy you depends upon how loud you listen to music and movies. If your preference is at or near reference levels, then you'll need a sub with more output (or think about going for multiples). If, however, your listening habits are like mine (and many here), where peak levels in movies and for music rarely exceed 90 dB, a single SB13-Ultra will perform very well indeed.

It's hard to see from my avatar picture, but my Ultra isn't in a corner either. Matter of fact, it's about a foot from the wall. Why? Once I did the sub-crawl and then did some minor tweaking (moving it a bit in all directions), that ended up being the best position for sound at my seating position. It is important to have more than one position in mind when locating a subwoofer simply because it is the sub itself (and not you) that tells you the best location. If that can't possibly be done, that's when multiple subs come into the picture to help smooth out those terrible room modes.
Yeah I listen pretty loud (100dB peak!) so I'm leaning towards a PB12+. It's probably the best model for what I want; size, output, price, tuning options, cosmetics, etc. And it's the most expensive model I could ever think about going dual!
However, I am currently thinking about upgrading my receiver before adding a sub.

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post #276 of 324 Old 09-20-2014, 12:20 PM
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Considering buying

I'm eyeing this sub for adding to my 2-channel setup with Totem Sttafs and an Anthem MRX-310 but I'm wondering if it would be worth it for me. I'm just looking to get better bass in the low frequencies for music. I don't want to have boominess or to feel sub-auditory frequencies through my chair, and I'm in an apartment with neighbours below me so a sub that's too strong in that department would be a problem and I would have to either attenuate it with PEQ or turn it off entirely at certain hours. But OTOH, my "media room" (such as it is) is a big open space with vaulted ceilings and > 6000 cubic feet.

What do you owners think? Would the SB13-Ultra be a good fit for me?

Also, I'm curious if anyone takes advantage of the frequency response going up to 460 Hz given that frequencies in that region could be perceived as directional. Has anyone tried setting the crossover higher than 80 Hz? Would you say that adds to music or takes away from it? My Sttafs already go down to ~40 Hz.
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post #277 of 324 Old 09-20-2014, 01:01 PM
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The SB Ultra 13 is all the sub you'll need in a 2 channel HiFi.

You wouldn't set the subwoofer higher than your L/R speakers roll off, that is just the flat response throught the frequency range. I would set no higher than 80hz, but personally you could try a bit lower.

I doubt those Totem's go down to 39hz. No way. Do you have a AVR or stereo pre? I'd probably use a higher crossover on the speakers, and cross the sub around that frequency, also helps removing LF from L/R speakers. Or use the SB Ultra 13's high pass feature (adjustable frequency and slope to boot) and crossover slope is adjustable as well.

I don't have a huge room so can't comment whether a sub is needed for music, but I guess it would.

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post #278 of 324 Old 09-20-2014, 01:24 PM
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The SB13 would be perfect in that scenario. Cross the fronts over at 80hz, integrate the sub well and it should satisfy exactly what you're looking for.


If the sub is next to your front speakers I wouldn't worry about even a 120hz or 150hz cross over . Can always try it. . My subs sit under my fronts and I've used them with even a 200hz cross over (unless it was 150)without issue.

Edit:above 120 with only one sub may start to be a bit directional, but as I said, you can always try it.

 

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post #279 of 324 Old 09-20-2014, 04:19 PM
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Thanks you two. I think I will pull the trigger on it.

The roll-off for the Sttafs in my room starts around 100 Hz so I'll try a crossover near that. I definitely wouldn't use 40 Hz.
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post #280 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 06:40 AM
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After moving in to a new home a year ago, I finally have time (and the money) to upgrade my home theater system. I am purchasing a new pre-pro (Marantz AV 7702) with Audyssey XT32. This coming week (if all goes according to plan), I'll be ordering two SB13 Ultras. Music/Movies mix is about 50/50. I listen to Jazz, Classical, and Blues (lots of SACDs and 5.1 music downloads). My questions are about setup so I can be a bit more precise than I was with my old subwoofers.

The room is huge with very high ceilings and a large space. I will locate my front speakers along a wall. My plan is to locate the subs under my L and R speakers. The Marantz owner's manual suggests asymmetrical placement (different distances along the wall from the pre-pro). I really do not want to do this (waf). What do you think?

I usually set all speakers to small and 80 hz crossover. I think the sub crossover in the pre-pro defaults to 120 hz and I've never changed this in the past. I've read that an argument can be made to lower it to 80 hz.

For Audyssey calibration I set the sub volume to the requested 75 Hz. After calibration, if I wanted a little more bass, I would simply raise the volume a bit on the sub (not in the pre-pro). At this point, I always considered myself done with room correction. And yet, I read so much about additional tweaks. I know these are excellent subs so I do feel inclined to make them fit in to my system more precisely.

Am I over thinking this? Or, is basic Audyssey calibration sufficient?

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post #281 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Desert Pilot View Post
After moving in to a new home a year ago, I finally have time (and the money) to upgrade my home theater system. I am purchasing a new pre-pro (Marantz AV 7702) with Audyssey XT32. This coming week (if all goes according to plan), I'll be ordering two SB13 Ultras. Music/Movies mix is about 50/50. I listen to Jazz, Classical, and Blues (lots of SACDs and 5.1 music downloads). My questions are about setup so I can be a bit more precise than I was with my old subwoofers.

The room is huge with very high ceilings and a large space. I will locate my front speakers along a wall. My plan is to locate the subs under my L and R speakers. The Marantz owner's manual suggests asymmetrical placement (different distances along the wall from the pre-pro). I really do not want to do this (waf). What do you think?

I usually set all speakers to small and 80 hz crossover. I think the sub crossover in the pre-pro defaults to 120 hz and I've never changed this in the past. I've read that an argument can be made to lower it to 80 hz.

For Audyssey calibration I set the sub volume to the requested 75 Hz. After calibration, if I wanted a little more bass, I would simply raise the volume a bit on the sub (not in the pre-pro). At this point, I always considered myself done with room correction. And yet, I read so much about additional tweaks. I know these are excellent subs so I do feel inclined to make them fit in to my system more precisely.

Am I over thinking this? Or, is basic Audyssey calibration sufficient?

Thanks!
Marcus
I have a Denon 4520 with XT32 with a SB13 Ultra. I have it setup exactly as you mentioned in your post. Speakers XO at 80hz and sub XO at 120hz on Denon. Everything disabled on sub amp as well. It sounds sweet. I did bump the sub up 6db's though. I also am 50/50 music and movies. I run the sub gain at -10. 0 being max volume. You own a ZL1 and SS convertible?

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post #282 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
I have a Denon 4520 with XT32 with a SB13 Ultra. I have it setup exactly as you mentioned in your post. Speakers XO at 80hz and sub XO at 120hz on Denon. Everything disabled on sub amp as well. It sounds sweet. I did bump the sub up 6db's though. I also am 50/50 music and movies. I run the sub gain at -10. 0 being max volume. You own a ZL1 and SS convertible?
Hey cchunter what is your AVR trim for the ultra? I ask because i have mine at -18 gain on amp and -3 on AVR (that is 5db hot from xt32)...I also have audyssey dyn EQ engaged but i have a ref. level offset at -10...so that i see how much room i have if i put it hotter for another db or two
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post #283 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 11:58 AM
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Sold my pb12nsd and ordered this badboy. Taking this up in my apartment is a pain in the ass and back.



set it up



set the volume of the sub to -10 and ARC set it to -4db. Do you guys use a rca splitter?
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post #284 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bryan338 View Post
Sold my pb12nsd and ordered this badboy. Taking this up in my apartment is a pain in the ass and back.



set it up



set the volume of the sub to -10 and ARC set it to -4db. Do you guys use a rca splitter?
I have ARC as well in my D2v with my dual SB13s. What do you need a splitter for?


BTW, you really didn't have to lift this heavy sub into your appt. The UPS/FEDEX guys did that for me on a doley. It's their job you now...

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #285 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post
I have ARC as well in my D2v with my dual SB13s. What do you need a splitter for?


BTW, you really didn't have to lift this heavy sub into your appt. The UPS/FEDEX guys did that for me on a doley. It's their job you now...
Funny you say that because the FedEx guy carried mine into the house as well.

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post #286 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tommaazz View Post
Hey cchunter what is your AVR trim for the ultra? I ask because i have mine at -18 gain on amp and -3 on AVR (that is 5db hot from xt32)...I also have audyssey dyn EQ engaged but i have a ref. level offset at -10...so that i see how much room i have if i put it hotter for another db or two
I use to run it at -16 gain on amp and it set it at -5 on Denon. Now I run it at -10 gain on sub and it pegs it at -12. If I remember right I'm about 6db's hot. I'll have to check again to make sure. Dynamic EQ is on as well.

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post #287 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 02:03 PM
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I use to run it at -16 gain on amp and it set it at -5 on Denon. Now I run it at -10 gain on sub and it pegs it at -12. If I remember right I'm about 6db's hot. I'll have to check again to make sure. Dynamic EQ is on as well.
Did you ever find it to struggle if you crank it up?
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post #288 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 02:09 PM
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Did you ever find it to struggle if you crank it up?
Nope not yet but I'm sure it's quite possible. I'm not to worried about it because it has a limiter and warranty. I listen to music at reference and movies between -5 to -10. I plan on getting another next year.

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post #289 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 02:20 PM
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Nope not yet but I'm sure it's quite possible. I'm not to worried about it because it has a limiter and warranty. I listen to music at reference and movies between -5 to -10. I plan on getting another next year.
Well...then i guess i am safe as i watch movies at no more than -10 and that is rarrely usually is around -18...now i see i could put it even hotter if needed but for now i like it the way it is...i would buy another one too but it is too expensive and that was tops i was willing to pay for sub...luckily i am extremelly happy with it and it digs deep in my room so it will stay where it is for a long time...previously i had a 2xsb12nsd and they cant even touch the ultra
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post #290 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bryan338 View Post
Sold my pb12nsd and ordered this badboy. Taking this up in my apartment is a pain in the ass and back.



set it up



set the volume of the sub to -10 and ARC set it to -4db. Do you guys use a rca splitter?
Congrats on your new sub. I would like to ask you when you will have some time to write a little comparisson to pb12 especially in movies as i know that in music ultra is better
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post #291 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 02:33 PM
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Well...then i guess i am safe as i watch movies at no more than -10 and that is rarrely usually is around -18...now i see i could put it even hotter if needed but for now i like it the way it is...i would buy another one too but it is too expensive and that was tops i was willing to pay for sub...luckily i am extremelly happy with it and it digs deep in my room so it will stay where it is for a long time...previously i had a 2xsb12nsd and they cant even touch the ultra
Your more than safe as it looks I push mine a lil more than you so hope that helps. I'm also extremely happy with mine. It's a monster for its size and still impresses me on a daily basis. Good to know it's better than dual SB12's because I was actually thinking of going that route at first or two PB12 NSD's. Seeing as my room is only 2000 cu ft I wanted something with a small footprint and don't care for the cylinders. Still not sure if I really would gain much by adding another. I really need to buy a Umik and run REW.

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post #292 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
I have a Denon 4520 with XT32 with a SB13 Ultra. I have it setup exactly as you mentioned in your post. Speakers XO at 80hz and sub XO at 120hz on Denon. Everything disabled on sub amp as well. It sounds sweet. I did bump the sub up 6db's though. I also am 50/50 music and movies. I run the sub gain at -10. 0 being max volume. You own a ZL1 and SS convertible?

Thanks! ...and yes, I drive the 2014 ZL1 and my wife drives the 2013 SS. We're members of the Southern Nevada Camaro Club (SNCC). Great fun when we're away from our home theater. LOL!
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post #293 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 04:18 PM
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Thanks! ...and yes, I drive the 2014 ZL1 and my wife drives the 2013 SS. We're members of the Southern Nevada Camaro Club (SNCC). Great fun when we're away from our home theater. LOL!
I'm so jealous!! Owning a ZL1 convertible is a dream of mine. Would you mind posting some pics please?

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post #294 of 324 Old 10-25-2014, 05:52 PM
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I'm so jealous!! Owning a ZL1 convertible is a dream of mine. Would you mind posting some pics please?
LOL. Let's give the thread back to the owners.

Go here for pics: Marcus' ZL1
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post #295 of 324 Old 10-29-2014, 07:21 AM
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While I wait for my new pre/pro and 2 SVS SB13 Ultras to arrive, I read through all of the Audyssey threads and discovered a "trick" if you like to run your subs a bit hotter than Audyssey recommends. I've never done this before but I will certainly try it. The suggestion is to increase sub output from 75db (Audyssey recommended level) to 85db and then run Audyssey. Of course, Audyssey will lower the trim to get your subs back to reference. What this effectively does is give you the ability to raise the trim using your AVR (running the sub hotter) while "preserving" the desired sub integration in your system. I will be doing this as part of my set up procedure. I still don't quite understand why it is important to do it this way but it appears to be a highly recommended way to boost your sub volume.

A couple of quotes from the Audyssey thread:

You may want to consider this comment from Ed Mullen, Director of Technology at renowned subwoofer manufacturer SVS:

"A general rule when level matching the subs and the speaker channels is to run the gain hotter at the subs and the AVR sub trim level cooler. That keeps the AVR sub signal clean and allows upward adjustability to run the sub hotter if needed."
In other words, if you prefer to raise the sub level above the 'Reference' level set after running Audyssey (i.e., run the subs 'hotter'), you should raise the sub gain control so that after running Audyssey, the sub level is set to a bigger minus value (eg. -9db). This will ensure that, after raising the sub volume using the AVR trim control to suit your 'Preference', the final sub trim level is still set to between +/-3.5db.


When Audyssey runs, the first step is to set the subs to 75 dB. It is perfectly OK to ignore that suggestion, and in fact it is recommended that you do so, if you wish to run your subs 'hot' for preference. Instead, set them at around 83 to 85 dB. This will yield a -10dB or so subwoofer trim setting after Audyssey. This provides 10 db of headroom before you even get to 0dB on the trim scale, and completely eliminates the possibility of overdriving the sub amp inputs. This method is recommended by Mark Seaton, founder of Seaton Sound, the makers of the legendary Seaton Submersive subwoofers.

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post #296 of 324 Old 10-29-2014, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post
Your more than safe as it looks I push mine a lil more than you so hope that helps. I'm also extremely happy with mine. It's a monster for its size and still impresses me on a daily basis. Good to know it's better than dual SB12's because I was actually thinking of going that route at first or two PB12 NSD's. Seeing as my room is only 2000 cu ft I wanted something with a small footprint and don't care for the cylinders. Still not sure if I really would gain much by adding another. I really need to buy a Umik and run REW.
You would get double the output on movies below 30 Hz, as your single sub is heavily compressing the low frequency signal if you are watching movies at -10. Almost everyone underestimates how much capability is needed to accurately play back low frequency without compression or limiting taking place. That is why when people upgrade from one sub to two, or two sealed subs to two ported subs, or two ported subs to two PB13 Ultras, or from PB13 Ultras to Captivator 2400's, the upgrade is drastic and very noticeable. For example:

Reference level (0 MV) requires a sub to be able to produce peak SPL of 115 dB at the MLP. Since you only listen at -10, that lowers the output requirement to 105 dB peaks. However, most people run their subs 5 db or so hot. This would increase the peak SPL from your sub to be 110 dB. Now take a look at how much the SB13 Ultra can produce at 16, 20, 25, and 31.5 Hz at 2m. You are lucky if you are not getting a decent amount of compression/limiting as high as 31.5 Hz. To make matters worse, you may be further than 2m from your sub, which will lower the SPL even further. Last, the sub may be required to produce up to an additional 6 dB of output due to bass redirected from the other 5 speakers in a surround setup. I can't log on to Data-bass at the moment, but assuming the SB13 Ultra produces 98 dB of output at 20 Hz, dual subs would produce, at best, 104 dB. You would still need two more to produce the 110 db level required by a -10 MV with subs calibrated 5 dB hot. And again, this does not include the additional 6 dB from bass redirected from the other 5 channels, or the drop in SPL due to distance to the MLP.

Of course, you may get some gain from corner loading, room gain, etc, but not enough to offset the shortfall in output. And if you are barely achieving the 110 dB at 20 Hz that four SB13 Ultras can produce, you still are not doing it without a lot of compression. So for music, dual subs may not make a huge difference, other than a potentially drastic improvement in sound quality do to a smoother FR, but for movies, even four SB13 Ultras would probably not give you true, 100% playback on movies with no compression or limiting in the lower frequencies.

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post #297 of 324 Old 10-29-2014, 04:37 PM
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When i had the SB13 (which i had to return because of a financial situation and can't wait to buy it again) i was getting 103 db at 20hz after EQ (dual subs to get 104db? Not in my room). I don't know........i get peoples need for more output, but that's more than enough for me. I don't go crazy over loudness of the bass. I more just want it to sound clean and accurate. As for compression, these types of things is something i don't notice--if it's even happening at all, i listen at -22 to -15 mostly. Basically i guess what i'm trying to say is.....i don't see the big deal. The sub, especially these kinds, is going to sound good regardless.
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Last edited by saprano; 10-29-2014 at 04:42 PM.
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post #298 of 324 Old 10-29-2014, 04:57 PM
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How different does the PC-13 Ultra in sealed mode sound from the SB-13 Ultra?

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, 65VT50
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post #299 of 324 Old 10-29-2014, 05:35 PM
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They would sound very similar. At least my PB13 did vs my sb13.
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post #300 of 324 Old 11-05-2014, 07:03 PM
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Yeah! My two SB13 Ultras arrived today. Unpacked and hooked up. Manual setup tonight and Audyssey this weekend. I'll let you know how they work out.

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