Is bigger better in the wonderful world of subwoofers? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 02-10-2013, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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So I picked up my new receiver and now I'm looking at subs.

Initially I was thinking I'd want a small subwoofer, like the cheapie logitech one I'm about to replace.

But the more I look around, the more I'm seeing bigger subs seem to run cheaper / perform higher?

I'm looking to spend around $1k when I get my tax return.

I read some reviews on the VTF-15H.

Is this the ideal sub to get if I think I can fit it at this price point?

I liked the fact that people said it was very phyiscally.. moving, yet rather accurate and deep.

Any further opinions would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 28 Old 02-10-2013, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixkatera View Post


I liked the fact that people said it was very phyiscally.. moving, yet rather accurate and deep.

LOL. I always love it when I hear reviews like this. Goes along with descriptions such as airy, transcendent, etc. etc. cool.gifsmile.gif
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Any further opinions would be appreciated.

Bottom line is; you want to move more air, you need more surface area. That sub would work well as long as many other offerings.

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post #3 of 28 Old 02-10-2013, 10:57 PM
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The VTF15H is a good sub, there's probably 4 or 5 others in your price range. More often then not you'll find that a lot of recommendations always seem to follow with the poster saying "if you spend this much more you can get this" I think the best advice you can get is set your budget and get the sub that suits your situation best.

You should probably also let us know a few other things like ie. room dimensions, is it a sealed room or open to other parts of the house.

Another sub I would throw into the mix is the VX15 from Power Sound Audio.
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post #4 of 28 Old 02-11-2013, 12:16 AM
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You can complain about to little of a sub. If you have to much of a sub, just cut it down a little. What are you pairing the sub with and how large is the room?

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post #5 of 28 Old 02-11-2013, 03:36 AM
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Op, there are several sub's in your price range. You will have to choose based upon your room dimensions and the amount of space you can spare.

I own two 15H's and can tell you that they are the best you are going to do for a grand shipped.

You Also have the choice of the following...not all inclusive but all within budget for you:

PSA XV-15...ported
PSA XS-15...sealed
SVS PB1000...ported
SVS SB1000...sealed
Rhythmik's new 12 in sub..can't remember it's name right now...ported

Take a look around. There should be write-ups on them all in this forum.

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post #6 of 28 Old 02-11-2013, 04:25 AM
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The Epik Empire's are nice subs. Is multiple subs an option or you'd like to stick with a single?
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post #7 of 28 Old 02-11-2013, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

The Epik Empire's are nice subs. Is multiple subs an option or you'd like to stick with a single?

Epik has not shipped a sub in like three months and it sounds like it could be several more months. I would stay away at this point as the company does not seem responsive to warranty claims either.

OP, what size is your room?
Is it open to other rooms?
Do you have restrictions on subwoofer size and placement?
Is $1K a hard number of can you spend more?
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post #8 of 28 Old 02-11-2013, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Room Size: I live in a 1 Bdrm Convertible apartment, the room is about 20' x 18'

Room / Situation: It is not sealed, it has a couple open hallways connected to a couple small open rooms, with very small rooms. Honestly, I am renting right now. So I can't really tamper with the room short from well, my belongings within and will anger my neighbors most likely if I cranked this at all, as I doubt the one foot of concrete will do much of anything to silence this stuff!

Goal: Half the reason I want to buy all of this now is because I don't think the woman will let me when I move in! So I want to buy before I start having to "justify" things. *eyeroll* In otherwords, I absolutely intend to buy knowing what I want is most likely completely unsuitable for my current situation, as I don't want to feel the need to upgrade at a later point in time and yes, that poster saying spend this to get this is definitely something I'm looking at, as silly as that sounds! Go big while I -can- is my idea. ( It will take a lot of self control not to anger my neighbors wink.gif )

I plan to purchase a new center and fronts, I was honestly looking at Tekton Pendragons, I have yet to hear anything bad about them short from people glowing that do have them.

My goal here is to purchase high end products that still give me good value and eventually replace all of my audio equipment.

Current speakers: I am using some Energy EF-500 tower speakers I picked up for super cheap a while back and will look to replace down the line as well. That is last on my list though.

http://www.amazon.com/Energy-EF-500-Floorstanding-Loudspeakers-Black/dp/B006QB8K3G/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1358645305&sr=1-1&keywords=energy+ef-500

I am currently using a the sub from my logitech z5500 and the center channel still as well.. do want to replace these like.. immediately. tongue.gif

This is something I'm progressively upgrading throughout the year to be blunt and not a flat out purchase. No numbers are set in stone for me due to this purpose.

Price points are not set in stone, as long as I can convince myself the difference is worth it based off what I've read.. I don't really know anywhere I can go to listen to these shiny things I want to buy in person, so reviews are mostly all I have to go by. mad.gif

As much as the glamorous fluff that goes into describing some of the things in the reviews, this is what sells for a newbie like myself. Though I do trust that these are all from credible sources, not from the pages of the sellers, but places like here, such as yourselves, and I do not expect to regret my decisions.
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post #9 of 28 Old 02-11-2013, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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o_o My post is being held for moderation.. I guess I said too much idk.

tl;dr version

Pretty big 20' x 18' open room.
Got sucky mid/sub. - logitech z5500s
Ok fronts / surround. - Energy EF-500s - looking to replace fronts/center/sub and run my EF-500s as rear surround. Heavily considering Tekton Pendragons.
Budget is flexible - if I can be convinced the increase in price is worth it.
Trying to upgrade big while I can.
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post #10 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 03:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

LOL. I always love it when I hear reviews like this. Goes along with descriptions such as airy, transcendent, etc. etc. cool.gifsmile.gif

Ahh, come on. Airy is a valid descriptor. Personally, it's how I choose to describe live sound such as what one might experience at a performing arts venue. This as opposed to the synthetic nature of focused sound reproduced by a toed in stereo/surround system. Airy is like all descriptors, if the individual hearing the word used, isn't in tune with it's meaning, then the word's use, will be meaningless. But at the same time, not understanding the use of a term, does not invalidate the validity of it's usage. And yes, for some, their listening experience can transcend the status quo and let's face it, no rational person is going say that top end subwoofers, while creating infrasonic sound waves, isn't a transcendent experience. tongue.gif

Just saying.

(Please don't take my "airy" away. frown.gif )

...biggrin.gif

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post #11 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 03:34 AM
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A sub isn't only limited by cone surface area but also by the volume of the enclosure and the driver's excursion. Too small a sub enclosure will limit output at the lowest frequencies as will too little xmax. I wouldn't build or buy a sub with less than a 4cf enclosure for a 15" perhaps much larger depending on the driver.
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post #12 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 05:46 AM
 
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.....eek.gif

D'oh! Posted in the wrong thread.

.....tongue.gif
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post #13 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

A sub isn't only limited by cone surface area but also by the volume of the enclosure and the driver's excursion. Too small a sub enclosure will limit output at the lowest frequencies as will too little xmax. I wouldn't build or buy a sub with less than a 4cf enclosure for a 15" perhaps much larger depending on the driver.
+1. If all newbies were aware of Hoffman's Iron Law most of the pygmy subs would disappear from the marketplace in short order. If you want to get high output with 30 to 80 foot wavelengths you've got to have a big box to do it.

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post #14 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 06:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

+1. If all newbies were aware of Hoffman's Iron Law most of the pygmy subs would disappear from the marketplace in short order.

Found this simplified explanation of "Hoffman's Iron Law."

And you know your above is not being fair as yes, aesthetics and available finances are valid considerations. Being rational here, everything is a compromise, including the price, size and number of boxes that can "rationally" be placed in a room. If one isn't being rational, then yes, your above would apply.

To make our situation work (think WAF), I've had to change my thinking to include asymmetrical purchases. Blending different manufacture's products so as to achieve the best possible sound reproduction configuration which meets all of the aforementioned considerations. And yes, this consideration includes the constantly hovering WAF force, hovering ever so present in our living room. The ideal would be to plunk three Danleys in the appropriate room location and be done with it but that's not going happen.......ever.

Just saying.

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post #15 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

You know that's not being fair as yes, aesthetics are a valid consideration.
They are if you care about looks more than sound. Subs aren't family cars, they're pickup trucks. If you need to carry a two ton load you buy a two ton pickup, not a half ton pickup, unless you get four of them.

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post #16 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Found this simplified explanation of "Homffman's Iron Law."

You know that's not being fair as yes, aesthetics are a valid consideration. Being rational here, everything is a compromise, including the size of the box and number of boxes that can "rationally" be placed in a room.

To make our situation work (think WAF), I've had to change my thinking to include asymmetrical purchases. Blending different manufacture's products so as to achieve the best possible sound reproduction configuration. This considering the WAF that is constant hovering force in our living room. The ideal would be to plunk three Danleys in the appropriate room location and be done with it but that's not going happen.......ever.

Just saying.

-
Just add a lamp.


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post #17 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 06:44 AM
 
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Just add a lamp.


.......eek.gif

I can see why you're smiling.

.......biggrin.gif

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post #18 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 06:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

They are if you care about looks more than sound. Subs aren't family cars, they're pickup trucks. If you need to carry a two ton load you buy a two ton pickup, not a half ton pickup, unless you get four of them.

I wholeheartedly agree with your above analogy but the WAF is a strong force indeed and not everybody has unlimited room, finances or a spouse with a built in Home Theater bias. That's why I commented, posting in the rational, which includes, aesthetics, available monies and available placement room and stated that if not a consideration, buy three Danley's (or what ever of one's choice) and be done with it. My wife is very sensitive about her living room (will start to cry if I misstep as that's the level of importance the living room has for her) and we don't have room for a dedicated Home Theater room.

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post #19 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 08:49 AM
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I am a huge fan of SVS cylinder subs myself.

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post #20 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 02:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I am a huge fan of SVS cylinder subs myself.

Have you tried or listened to a SVS, PC13-Ultra and if you have, do you think it would marry up well with a PSA, XS30?

I have a serious WAF to cope with. This requires subs to be unobtrusive. Space being limited as space can be, I would like to place a SVS, PC13 behind a very large recliner. On the other corner of the same wall, because of the low profile, I'm considering a PSA, XS30. The room setup has potential for a third location but I haven't decided if it should have a smaller cylinder or standard box like a Rythmik, E15 or just be happy with the two aforementioned subs.

The WAF force is strong indeed and will go to the dark side if not made happy.

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post #21 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

.......eek.gif

I can see why you're smiling.

.......biggrin.gif

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That is not my setup, mine is worse...

My build thread

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Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

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post #22 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 04:16 PM
 
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That is not my setup, mine is worse...

It's good to see a man enjoy his hobby. biggrin.gif
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post #23 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Just add a lamp.


When I saw this I got flash backs from the movie "Back to the Future"! lol biggrin.gif
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post #24 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Have you tried or listened to a SVS, PC13-Ultra and if you have, do you think it would marry up well with a PSA, XS30?

I'm still using what SVS now refers to as a " vintage " 20 -39pci cylinder sub. Yes, it's behind the seating - no one really notices it looks wise, and I can't see why a PC13-Ultra wouldn't work with most any speaker setup IMHO.

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post #25 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I'm still using what SVS now refers to as a " vintage " 20 -39pci cylinder sub. Yes, it's behind the seating - no one really notices it looks wise, and I can't see why a PC13-Ultra wouldn't work with most any speaker setup IMHO.

I didn't know my old 16-46s were vintage eek.gif

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

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post #26 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 08:46 PM
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I didn't know my old 16-46s were vintage eek.gif

That was the first sub that gave me goosebumps. I really miss my dual 16-46pc+ setup.

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post #27 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

That was the first sub that gave me goosebumps. I really miss my dual 16-46pc+ setup.

I only had my duals for a week cause some people who have a voice (WAF) decided they looked like water heaters...They were awesome for the week I had em!

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #28 of 28 Old 02-12-2013, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Just add a lamp.


LMAO sometimes you gotta have light! Looks like those subs and JBL horns blew one of his socks off too.

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