NEED TO FILL BIG ROOM HELP WITH MY DECISION PLS!! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 08:39 AM
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post #92 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 08:40 AM
 
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Sonotubes are a concrete construction item.
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post #93 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Thats so awesome! I got to start playing with this stuff get my feet wet.
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post #94 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 09:10 AM
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Those were 26 inch round, 72 inch tall sonos with an 30 inch long 8 inch round port. The eD 190v2 went in them. I converted them to 8 sealed sonos. I never took a picture of the port side. Using the Dayton will require a bigger sono! They are huge but have awesome power. I wish I measured the response and THD at 10hz with them. The 13Av2 would require a 72 inch tall sono(same height), but only 16 inch round tube with a 5 inch 36 inch long port. I would rather use a 6 inch port but the tune would be too high and the sono too big for this driver. A 4 inch is ideal because you could use a smaller sono which means better for the response. However, I am not sure if a 4 inch port at 36 inches would chuff at high spl's. My winisd does not tell me that info. Anyone know if 4 inch ports are OK at 36 inches and 12-14hz tune with a 13 inch driver.
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post #95 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Thats cool mk but now the tubes just come as tubes? How do you make the tops and bottoms and mount them on?
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post #96 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by frankie2075 View Post

Thats cool mk but now the tubes just come as tubes? How do you make the tops and bottoms and mount them on?

You buy 3/4 MDF and cut circles to fit, or have someone do it. Basically you cut a big circle to fit the sonotube like a tennis can top and then cut an inner circle to fit the driver. If you want to recess the driver you use two layers of MDF. Same goes for the port side except the inner circle is port size and not woofer size. The sonotubes usually come in 12 feet lengths so you have to cut them to fit(in half) or have someone do it. I thought that was the hardest part was to cut the sonos even in the middle. Not difficult though as you can recess the endcap a little to where it is more even. You can make little mistakes here and there and sonos come in different sizes even though you think you are getting 24 inch round or 16 inch round. I simulated and designed 72 inch tall, 24 inch round, sonos to get about a 14.3 hz tune and it came out to be about a 13hz tune. This is not a bad thing. I really wish I measured the big LLT's just to see what they act like at 10hz, technically it should be lots of THD but the 10hz room gain will lower that a bunch. The lower the tune the better but certain drivers like the 13 AV2 could only go so low in a ported design because the box becomes too big for a nice response and the port becomes too long or small which creates port noise or chuffing. You don't want any of that. Sealed is so much easier but you need many to equal the same spl at or around tune as you can see in the sims.
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post #97 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 10:37 AM
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The sontubes seem so flimsy as is but once you add the endcaps they become very sturdy and I could stand on them with no problems(I am not a small person).
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post #98 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 11:12 AM
 
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Flimsy? Sonotubes are concrete forms, used in bridge and building construction, designed to handle the outward pressure of thousands of pounds of wet concrete, in tall column lengths up to sixty feet.

.....confused.gif

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post #99 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 11:25 AM
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Flimsy? Sonotubes are concrete forms, used in bridge and building construction, designed to handle the outward pressure of thousands of pounds of wet concrete, in tall column lengths up to sixty feet.

.....confused.gif

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You would understand once you used them. They become very strong once filled or when adding endcaps, no bracing needed at all. Just empty tubes I could crush it with my hands but with endcaps I could walk on it with 340 pounds(at the time). Think of toilet paper rolls. you can crush it easily, add some ends to it made out of wood or fill it with sand or something and now you can dent it.
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post #100 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You buy 3/4 MDF and cut circles to fit, or have someone do it. Basically you cut a big circle to fit the sonotube like a tennis can top and then cut an inner circle to fit the driver. If you want to recess the driver you use two layers of MDF. Same goes for the port side except the inner circle is port size and not woofer size. The sonotubes usually come in 12 feet lengths so you have to cut them to fit(in half) or have someone do it. I thought that was the hardest part was to cut the sonos even in the middle. Not difficult though as you can recess the endcap a little to where it is more even. You can make little mistakes here and there and sonos come in different sizes even though you think you are getting 24 inch round or 16 inch round. I simulated and designed 72 inch tall, 24 inch round, sonos to get about a 14.3 hz tune and it came out to be about a 13hz tune. This is not a bad thing. I really wish I measured the big LLT's just to see what they act like at 10hz, technically it should be lots of THD but the 10hz room gain will lower that a bunch. The lower the tune the better but certain drivers like the 13 AV2 could only go so low in a ported design because the box becomes too big for a nice response and the port becomes too long or small which creates port noise or chuffing. You don't want any of that. Sealed is so much easier but you need many to equal the same spl at or around tune as you can see in the sims.
Mk they are not glued in or anything? Anyway now i was thinking and seeing with theses sono tubes they have to be real high im getting a projection screen so they might get in the way. But im still considering them. You order them from sonotubes.com? Or home depot would have them? But i think im going to do ported. I have WINSID what other good programs can i get to start coming up with idea and simulations? Thanks mk for everything help and inspiration.
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post #101 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 11:42 AM
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sonosub software is free and so is winisd. Yes, you glue and seal the ports and endcaps to the sonotube. I used all sontube on my first build and shot nails thru the ends as well but not needed. If I even build LLT's again(I might just so I can measure one) I will use PVC for the port and sonotube for the cab. I would check any local concrete companies in town and since you are in NY you should have many. If you buy some subs from me and can score some sonotubes I would build a couple or so for you. I just modeled one in a 14.5 hz tune and all you need is a 4 foot tall, 16 inch round sonotube. The port would be 4 inches round and 30 inches long. One would get you 112 dBs at 15hz outside at 1 meter. The SVS ultra sub did 111 dBs at 16hz. That sub costs $1800 and one of mine would be under $250. DIY always wins friends. Even when eD were selling these driverts at $350 one could build it for $450 or so, minus amp. I good amp could power many. 18's are better to move more air but need much bigger enclosures.
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post #102 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 11:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You would understand once you used them.

I'm a recently retired, licensed in the state of California, General Contractor. Yes, I'm very aware of this product based on actual use in the field.
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post #103 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 12:02 PM
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I guess the confusion is the word flimsy, I consider PVC not flimsy, sonotube, opposite, however once filled or glued with endcaps they are very strong and actually like them better than boxes.
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post #104 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 12:58 PM
 
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I guess the confusion is the word flimsy, I consider PVC not flimsy, sonotube, opposite, however once filled or glued with endcaps they are very strong and actually like them better than boxes.

Which scheduled PVC are you posting about? That sort of thing. The previous is a rhetorical question in that there are multiple grades of products and sonotubes are robust for what they do. Are they meant to support a 250# man standing on the center of a twelve foot length? Of course not but if you've cut one with a crosscut saw, one will find they're anything but flimsy. They're intended to be tough enough to hold concrete but gentle enough to be torn away from the same said set concrete. From my position of one who's used this product professionally, you describing this very functional construction grade product as "flimsy," seemed so out of place as in my, no longer a professional opinion, it's one tough dude to cut and use.

If you will, my comment was nothing more than a friendly exclamation. Nothing more.

(I truly am doing my level headed best to get along)
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post #105 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 01:23 PM
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Yes, flimsy compared to solid box in which we are using these for. We are talking about building subs and one can use sonotubes, MDF, wood, etc... So compared to what is normally used when someone buys a concrete form for their sub they may think it is flimsy like I did(again, for subs). However, once you put endcaps on them you will understand(you meaning anyone).
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post #106 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 01:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yes, flimsy compared to solid box in which we are using these for. We are talking about building subs and one can use sonotubes, MDF, wood, etc... So compared to what is normally used when someone buys a concrete form for their sub they may think it is flimsy like I did(again, for subs). However, once you put endcaps on them you will understand(you meaning anyone).

Based upon 1" MDF plus supports, by comparison, absolutely flimsy. tongue.gif
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post #107 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 02:02 PM
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Right, we need to keep things in context. I thought to myself when I brought home two 12 feet on concrete tubes that there is no way this can produce deep bass at high levels but once I finished them I thought of them even better than a box. My little sealed cabinets weigh 80 pounds each and the whole 6 foot tall sonosub weighed 100 pounds with an 18. I do love the sonotube!. Hey, why the hell would you consider a commercial sub if you are a contractor? With those skills I would go even crazier and build the most difficult speakers and subs, I have to keep it simple. You have the option of building something awesome for cheap.
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post #108 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 02:11 PM
 
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Hey, why the hell would you consider a commercial sub if you are a contractor? With those skills I would go even crazier and build the most difficult speakers and subs,...

After a lifetime of building stuff for others? LOL! LOL! LOL!

When I retired, I gave truck loads of tools and stuff away so I couldn't do things when I retired. I'm retired and there's no way I want to revive a lifetime of building things. tongue.gif I called the state and cancelled my licenses, I retired with three unblemished licenses.

I don't want a table saw, drill press; nothing. I have a cordless power drill and a chop saw from a pawn shop and some minor power tools. I don't want anybody local knowing I have "skills."

Does make it hard to hire subs to work on the home? Yes. But when it comes to building subwoofers, what others have to offer, works for me. biggrin.gif

(Yes, I'll remodel the hall bath for the wife but only so she gets what she wants.)

.....tongue.gif

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post #109 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 08:44 PM
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As I just posted in another thread, I have dual Power Sound Audio XV-30's in a very large room and could not be happier. How ever your room is a little larger than mine, the Quad PSA 15's might be a better option!

I would go with the 4 XV15's. Tom at PSA told me that 3 XV15's have a bit more output than 2 XV30's so 4 would definitely have more output than the 2 30's.

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
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2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)
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post #110 of 123 Old 02-19-2013, 09:11 PM
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Off topic but how can 3 ported 15's have more output than 4 15's that are the same? It makes no sense. Unless they severely amp limit the dual 15 sub. 4 single 15's should be the same as 4 15's unless they are lacking the power. Also, the dual 15's are colocated to get maximum gain. One other thing, 4 15's won't stand a chance against what we are talking about and cost more to boot.
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post #111 of 123 Old 02-20-2013, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay so i think im going with the 18in dayton sub one for now and see what i can build. Si drivers are not in stock and have to wait months for it. So for get that. Any other 18in drivers you can think of? Idk if i should just got big xxx or lms ultra! Or start with a dayton?
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post #112 of 123 Old 02-20-2013, 07:48 AM
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Okay so i think im going with the 18in dayton sub one for now and see what i can build. Si drivers are not in stock and have to wait months for it. So for get that. Any other 18in drivers you can think of? Idk if i should just got big xxx or lms ultra! Or start with a dayton?

The Dayton is tried and true, a number of folks have used it with great results. The AE stuff looks good too, but you might have to wait a little while. Chopshop has a preorder thread if you want to look into it.

If it was me, I would just go with the Daytons.
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post #113 of 123 Old 02-20-2013, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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The Dayton is tried and true, a number of folks have used it with great results. The AE stuff looks good too, but you might have to wait a little while. Chopshop has a preorder thread if you want to look into it.

If it was me, I would just go with the Daytons.
Yea think thats what im going to do. Thanks
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post #114 of 123 Old 02-20-2013, 09:10 AM
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As a Dayton and SI owner, I can still tell you that the best value out there is MK's sub setup for sale. They are an absolute bargain and if I didn't already have 16 subwoofers in my house (8 daytons, 4 SIs, 2 empires, 1 ed a5350, 1 energy 10) I would buy them!
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post #115 of 123 Old 02-20-2013, 09:12 AM
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As a Dayton and SI owner, I can still tell you that the best value out there is MK's sub setup for sale. They are an absolute bargain and if I didn't already have 16 subwoofers in my house (8 daytons, 4 SIs, 2 empires, 1 ed a5350, 1 energy 10) I would buy them!

+1 on MKTheaters deal. As long as you can pick them up and not ship them, they are a great value.
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post #116 of 123 Old 02-20-2013, 10:49 AM
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Tell me about it, each sub weighs 200 pounds and they are relatively small boxes, 16x16x38. Two 60 pound drivers and 80 pounds of EFS(fancy MDF). I call them my little tanks. Smallest subs I have owned in a long time. Smaller than the SVS cylinders and PB12/plus/2 overall.
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post #117 of 123 Old 02-20-2013, 04:55 PM
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+3, unless your dying to get into a build, which earlier you gave me the impression you were not, you will have more output, faster, for less time and money. Go pick up MKs subs and call it a day. Look at his gear man, you know they wouldn't be at his place if they were not high performance + high quality.
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post #118 of 123 Old 02-22-2013, 09:50 PM
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frankie2075, What's the plan?
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post #119 of 123 Old 02-22-2013, 09:51 PM
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quad orbit shifter?
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post #120 of 123 Old 02-23-2013, 03:12 PM
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what is frank going with?

yes, this is my tutu, and yes, funerals are appropriate places to wear them... now hand me my scepter
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