PSA XS30 vs Rythmik F15HP - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Yes I did and I was thinking the exact same thing too beachan and that was also the reason I was trying to keep the thread on topic. I really do like the FV15HP but there seems to be a lot of guys that don't believe the XS30 can hold its own too.

We just like to wait for numbers from the same person instead of mfg numbers biggrin.gif I think that is reasonable!

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post #32 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bearchan View Post

Haven't we heard this all before? Didn't you go around and around with dominguez1 on this same subject?

 

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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Yes I did and I was thinking the exact same thing too beachan and that was also the reason I was trying to keep the thread on topic. I really do like the FV15HP but there seems to be a lot of guys that don't believe the XS30 can hold its own too.

lol, yes we did.

 

But, we came to agreement that the XS30 has more output above 30hz, and the FV15HP below 30hz. No arguments there....just don't ask me where I think the additional output matters. wink.gif

 

Joking aside, I'm a big fan of the XS30 and would recommend it 'ear unheard' (sight unseen just didn't fit).

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post #33 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 08:27 PM
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Haha it was all in good fun though domingeuz1, yeah i still think the FV15HP is a great sub and Rythmik makes great products. And I've recommended the FV15HP many times too. I just think for some reason the XS30 doesn't get the respect it deserves for some reason.

And if the OP is comparing just the two subs that he's talking about the XS30 is still the best option.

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post #34 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Shady while I'm not going to argue that the FV15HP is a great sub, it's not the be all end all sub. I do find it some what amusing though that you have a hard time admitting the XS30 will out perform the FV15HP above 40hz. 6db would only happen if you put two FV15HP in the same location. You'd only get 4db if for example you had one in each corner of your front wall for example. But I'm sure you're already aware of this.

The numbers don't add up. 122 db is more than twice what the XV15 can do at any point except for 50 hz alone. By my understanding, the XS30 shouldn't be louder than two XV15s. I could see the XS30 being slightly louder than the FV15HP at 40 hz and above, but I wouldn't bet on it being 3 dB louder.
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post #35 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Haha it was all in good fun though domingeuz1, yeah i still think the FV15HP is a great sub and Rythmik makes great products. And I've recommended the FV15HP many times too. I just think for some reason the XS30 doesn't get the respect it deserves for some reason.

And if the OP is comparing just the two subs that he's talking about the XS30 is still the best option.

Don't get me wrong, for the price of the XS30 I was tempted to replace my QuadEX set up for it. In the end though I went with a DIY approach:D

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post #36 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post


The numbers don't add up. 122 db is more than twice what the XV15 can do at any point except for 50 hz alone. By my understanding, the XS30 shouldn't be louder than two XV15s. I could see the XS30 being slightly louder than the FV15HP at 40 hz and above, but I wouldn't bet on it being 3 dB louder.

Why don't they add up? Look at data-bass for the Epik Empire. 121.6 at 80hz, 124.2 at 125hz/

 

Sealed units excel in the upper midbass compared to ported.

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post #37 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 08:48 PM
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The internal volume of XS30 is about 3.8 L (shared for two drivers). The F15HP is in about a 3.0 L enclosure with a slightly smaller amplifier. I wonder if the amplifier is able to overcome the air spring for the PSA. My complaint with the PSA drivers is the lack of a shorting ring as seen in the measurements. Does anyone know the xmax of the PSA drivers? My complaint with the PSA drivers is the lack of a shorting ring as seen in the measurements. Edit - Guess I should not forget thermal compression.

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post #38 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The numbers don't add up. 122 db is more than twice what the XV15 can do at any point except for 50 hz alone. By my understanding, the XS30 shouldn't be louder than two XV15s. I could see the XS30 being slightly louder than the FV15HP at 40 hz and above, but I wouldn't bet on it being 3 dB louder.

When I first looked at buying from PSA I talked to Tom about the XV15, he said hold off they were just about to announce the new XS30 and he thought that would work great for me. Actually I think I was the second or third person to actually order the XS30s. He told me that two XV15s almost equal one XS30.

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post #39 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Don't get me wrong, for the price of the XS30 I was tempted to replace my QuadEX set up for it. In the end though I went with a DIY approach:D

I still might do a DIY just for fun. Tom from PSA and I have been talking about it and he's given me a few ideas. He really is a great guy to deal with and even bounce ideas off of with respect to different designs.

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post #40 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 09:48 PM
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These are the exact two subs I'm considering for my family room system. I like the Rythmik for its looks and smaller size and I get the impression it's bass is tighter and more musical, but the PSA seems like it should have more output and is a better value. Any additional feedback on these is very welcome.
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post #41 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Why don't they add up? Look at data-bass for the Epik Empire. 121.6 at 80hz, 124.2 at 125hz/

Sealed units excel in the upper midbass compared to ported.

The Empire had a pretty light cone assembly mass, that will get you very high upper bass output without needing a ton of energy. The PSA drivers look to be a bit heavier, but maybe I am misunderstanding the kind of drivers they are using.
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

When I first looked at buying from PSA I talked to Tom about the XV15, he said hold off they were just about to announce the new XS30 and he thought that would work great for me. Actually I think I was the second or third person to actually order the XS30s. He told me that two XV15s almost equal one XS30.

What I contended with originally was the claim that the XS30 is going to have twice the output of the FV15HP above 30 hz. If you go to Ricci's site data-bass.com, you can see how the XV15 compares to a FV15HP. If you double the XV15's output by adding 6 dB, you do not get double the FV15HP's output at any point, in fact, you would need to double the output just to match the FV15HP for the most part. You can see now why I disputing that claim, the numbers just don't make sense.
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post #42 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 10:59 PM
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Okay I see what you're saying but "IF" we take the numbers I was giving by Tom and the XS30 in the 40hz and up range it would have an output advantage of about 4.5db. Which is basically twice the output of the FV15HP in that range.

You're only going to get 6db by doubling up on subs if they are located together, and I don't think that would be very practice. So realistically you would probably have on in each corner which would only be about 4db with two of the same subs.

In the 40hz and up range the XV15 doesn't even come close to the XS30.

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post #43 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 11:01 PM
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Wow go to a Fat Tuesday party and this thread has changed smile.gif
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Originally Posted by justindo View Post

These are the exact two subs I'm considering for my family room system. I like the Rythmik for its looks and smaller size and I get the impression it's bass is tighter and more musical, but the PSA seems like it should have more output and is a better value. Any additional feedback on these is very welcome.

What gave you the impression the PSA has more output? It is frequency dependent and the sealed vs ported nature has much to do with it. They are both good subs, but we'd need more information about your situation to recommend.
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post #44 of 47 Old 02-12-2013, 11:04 PM
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I think he's talking about the F15HP and XS30 when talking about the PSA having more output.
I would also like to point out that if the OP is only considering these two subs the XS30 would probably be at least $150 cheaper then the F15HP when factor in the cost of shipping and it has a longer warranty on the amp. 2 years compared to 5 years. Looks aside I think of these two the XS30 is better value.

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post #45 of 47 Old 02-13-2013, 05:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Okay I see what you're saying but "IF" we take the numbers I was giving by Tom and the XS30 in the 40hz and up range it would have an output advantage of about 4.5db. Which is basically twice the output of the FV15HP in that range.

You're only going to get 6db by doubling up on subs if they are located together, and I don't think that would be very practice. So realistically you would probably have on in each corner which would only be about 4db with two of the same subs.

In the 40hz and up range the XV15 doesn't even come close to the XS30.

Remembering of course that it takes twice the power to raise SPL 3db but it takes 10dB to have the perception of doubling sound level; that sounds twice as loud. Based on that, in my opinion, 3dB isn't worth getting out of bed for other than trying to create a flat graph and when peaks and mounds are adjusted for, advantages in the mid-bass range of three to six dB are adjusted accordingly for.

The point, one needs to take meaningful consideration into consideration when having discussions of this kind.

My understanding of co-location is, they need to be within one wave length of each other for co-location to be effective. That means to get full benefit of the LFE channel, the subs need to be within ~9.5' and to take benefit of <80Hz frequencies where most LFE content lies, the subs need to be within ~19' of each other. Wave length; (V/f) V=speed of sound, at sea level, dry air, at 68F is 1128 ft/s and f=frequency is the frequency being asked about.

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post #46 of 47 Old 02-13-2013, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

There is most certainly a qualitative difference between the Rythmik sound and conventional subs. I have done a A/B comparison myself, an Rythmik, a Hsu, an Outlaw, and an Elemental Designs sub. It could achieve a certain definition that the others didn't.

ShadyJ, the explanation is Rythmik servo sub achieves a better time coherence. The train sound track that you referred to when you tested all above subs is the perfect test for that. The sequence of t sound seems to be random, but in reality it is not. There are only a handle of mechanic elements contributing to the sound (and some large and some small), and the component of the sound is generated in a particular sequence that our human brain recognize. Also the size of the mechanic elements determine how long its sound lasts and not to mentioned the reverberation from the road surface and walls of the train body. The subwoofer that can reproduce the sequence best can almost reproduce all the other sound with easy. I don't talk about the detail of our designs too much and that is for a reason. Yes, competition. But I often like to use the analogy that improving sound is like peeling the onion. After we address one, the next layer is there. The advantage of our servo is it allows us to peel several layers of onion. You can imagine, once the sound quality is improved, it allows us to explore which component is the next layer to peel, and that leads to the next, and next. A lot of servo subs out there are not done like this. All they want to do is to slap a servo label on it and call it done. They don't care about the basic quality to make good sound. On the other hand, we are able to apply the same technology to all subs. It is like taking the know how we learn from the more expensive model and apply to the less expensive ones too, It is a complete family of products.
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post #47 of 47 Old 02-13-2013, 07:14 AM
 
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It is a complete family of products.

The problem for us, is placement issues; size. frown.gif

What's a guy to do? Can the F25 be purchased to lie on the floor as opposed to standing on it's end? Do you have a timeline when pricing for the F25 will be established for public consumption? With servo, can one use a single F25 as opposed to two, three or four F15HP's?
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